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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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I just realized why Paul seems to waffle between OP and too weak.

The bad guys recognized early on his OPness and a lot of the situations he encounters has villains deploying countermeasures specifically against him.

The only other people to encounter this are the League's big names.

A victim of his own success.
 
stsword said:
So again, why waste time making an army when a single speedster could do the job?
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Well, obviously it's because the people writing Blackest Night, like anyone who writes a DC or Marvel crossover, were ignoring large swathes of the setting either out of simple ignorance or disinclination to involve various parts of the setting with their story. Also, mainstream comics are pretty much built on ignoring anything that would prevent Good McGooderton and Satan von Soulraper from going three rounds in the Righteous Face Puncher Arena at the climax. You just have to abandon Watsonian logic and go full Doylist or else -

stsword said:
rest of the post
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... or else you end up claiming that the guy who can casually reanimate entire planets of dead people and wants to kill everything refused to do so until a thematically appropriate moment for reasons other than "the authors had a cool zombie army v. Lantern Corps fight planned for the third act and didn't want to spoil it."

I think you're failing to see the forest for the trees here, @stsword - I've tried to go Watsonian on things like this myself, but there's a point where you have to stop and admit that maybe the authors weren't perfect.
 
GardenerBriareus said:
Well, obviously it's because the people writing Blackest Night, like anyone who writes a DC or Marvel crossover, were ignoring large swathes of the setting either out of simple ignorance or disinclination to involve various parts of the setting with their story. Also, mainstream comics are pretty much built on ignoring anything that would prevent Good McGooderton and Satan von Soulraper from going three rounds in the Righteous Face Puncher Arena at the climax. You just have to abandon Watsonian logic and go full Doylist or else -


... or else you end up claiming that the guy who can casually reanimate entire planets of dead people and wants to kill everything refused to do so until a thematically appropriate moment for reasons other than "the authors had a cool zombie army v. Lantern Corps fight planned for the third act and didn't want to spoil it."

I think you're failing to see the forest for the trees here, @stsword - I've tried to go Watsonian on things like this myself, but there's a point where you have to stop and admit that maybe the authors weren't perfect.
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This is exactly why I think authors trying to follow canon too closely often makes things worst, they have to reconcile things that just can't work in a logical plausible universe.
 
GodKiller999 said:
This is exactly why I think authors trying to follow canon too closely often makes things worst, they have to reconcile things that just can't work in a logical plausible universe.
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The opposing perspective is that this is the fault of the canon itself, and by extension the past authors who DIDN'T follow canon closely enough.
 
Coda said:
The opposing perspective is that this is the fault of the canon itself, and by extension the past authors who DIDN'T follow canon closely enough.
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That's what I'm saying? The point is that when people are anal about following canon when it's flawed it just makes the new work lesser for it. I'm a strong advocate of "take the good and leave out the bad".
 
GodKiller999 said:
That's what I'm saying? The point is that when people are anal about following canon when it's flawed it just makes the new work lesser for it. I'm a strong advocate of "take the good and leave out the bad".
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I meant, if all of the past authors had been strict about canon too, then it wouldn't be a problem. So having authors be strict about canon isn't, in and of itself, a bad thing.
 
Chris6666 said:
Ok @Mr Zoat some date errors:

First of all:

13:43GMT-5 = (13+5):43 GMT=18:43 GMT so the time is the same.
The first part of that snip takes time, so you can just make the post transition time later (the next renegade update is 30 minutes later)

Then we have these:

The paragon updates go from
19:54 GMT -5 = 24:54 GMT => 11th June at 00:54 GMT
to 06:28 GMT +5:30 = 00:58 GMT still at 11th June
which means that the talk with Caldur and all the planning + fight took 4 minutes :):):D:D
On top of that the renegade update in between is at 09:36 GMT -6 = 15:36GMT, which is almost 15 hours later than the above paragon update.
I don't know what you meant to do but as is the easiest way to fix this is to fix the 06:28 GMT +5:30 and make it later.
Maybe make it on 12th June instead?
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Okay.

For the first one, I've added three minutes to the second time.

For the second, I've moved the fight in India forwards two days.

I think that works?
 
really necrons whole plan makes so little sense from a strategic perspective that either he's dealing with limitations we never see, or his mind doesn't really work in a way conductive to strategic brilliance. I remember someone saying he ignored an attack on his mind because he didn't have one, he was just an echo acting out what people expected of the Black Light, if that's true it would quite nicely explain why he kept it personal and in your face. It's the kind of thing people where afraid of and expected. Sure wiping out a small colony world in a bad part of space where stuff like that happens form time to time would let him manifest quickly and subtly, but its not the kind of personal nightmare expected of necron so it's not what he did. He bothered with zombies who mattered to the opposition rather than just loads of strong dudes for the same reason.
 
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random_npc said:
really necrons whole plan makes so little sense from a strategic perspective that either he's dealing with limitations we never see
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Yeah, this is always a problem. Assuming that because the bad guy does not explicitly spell out his weaknesses and limitations to the reader in a power point complete with neat little bullets, he is more powerful than he was shown to be. Like OL cannot just Identity theft everyone willy nilly, he needs a connection to avarice in the subject, the stronger the better. If I had to guess, it is not actually feasible to make many Black Lantern zombies in secret, it needs that emotional resonance from the Living being confronted by Black Lanterns they care about most to make the process possible/energy efficient, and maybe needs to target individuals significant in the Book of Fate or something to hit the cosmic scrabble triple word space, instead of terrorizing some alien backwater version of Punxsutawney, PA first.
random_npc said:
or his mind doesn't really work in a way conductive to strategic brilliance.
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Yeah, he could be like the Void in Final Fantasy, which is the impulse for creation to return to the nothingness from which it same into being to balance the equation of existence, but is not really sentient/sapient any more than a computer running various mathematical sequences to try and solve an algebra equation is.

Mr Zoat said:
I thought I smelled Nu52 in here for a moment.
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And let it be known far and wide, as it shall be and always has been, that he who so smelt it, is he that hath dealt it!
 
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BrambleThorn said:
Yeah, this is always a problem. Assuming that because the bad guy does not explicitly spell out his weaknesses and limitations to the reader in a power point complete with neat little bullets.
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it's still bad writing not to at least hint that a villain has limits we don't know about. Like some villain who has a spell that can obliterate anything on a mountain, if we see him obliterate 2 mountain strongholds and then struggle to deal with a hill fort it needs to be acknowledged in story that something is odd. It doesn't need bullet points, but a conversation where the hero's wonder why he's not just obliterating them helps point out it's not just a plot hole. Since a lot of the time stuff like that is just a plot hole.
 
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@Mr Zoat here are the epubs I made up to now.
The Season 1 epub is completed and up to date as of 25/01/2017
The Season 2 epub up to date with the latest chapters and corrections

epub for Season 1 (Episodes 01-26) [MediaFire][MediaFire Alt. Formatting][GoogleDrive] by @Chris6666 (corrections added up to 25/01/2017)
epub for Season 2 (Episodes 27-50) [MediaFire][MediaFire Alt. Formatting][GoogleDrive] by @Chris6666 (chapters up to 25/01/2017)
Note: The Alt versions have background color deep blue and default text color white. Also the transparent text has a darker color as both the background and the text color, and it is also in black borders.
Also both versions have XenForo like threadmarks between episodes while the Alt Versions has similar threadmarks on the individual chapters
 
GardenerBriareus said:
... or else you end up claiming that the guy who can casually reanimate entire planets of dead people and wants to kill everything refused to do so until a thematically appropriate moment for reasons other than "the authors had a cool zombie army v. Lantern Corps fight planned for the third act and didn't want to spoil it."

I think you're failing to see the forest for the trees here, @stsword - I've tried to go Watsonian on things like this myself, but there's a point where you have to stop and admit that maybe the authors weren't perfect.
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And I think some people ought to have given it some freaking thought.

Nekron was banished by the White Light Entity about 14 billion years ago.

Nekron wants to kill the White Light Entity to reclaim his home.

So on one hand Nekron can kill the White Light Entity, make life conceptually impossible, and kill everything in 100+ billion galaxies at the exact same time and reclaim his home after about 14 billion freaking years.

Or he can waste energy to make a huge army to try to kill every single life form including single celled organisms in 100+ billion galaxies one at a time and still wouldn't let him reclaim his home until the White Light Entity was dead.

One of those plans is efficient in time and energy, the other one is wasteful in both time and energy.

So you say the DC writers screwed up. Yes, how dare they not have Nekron stupidly waste time and energy. Bad writers! No cookies for them!
 
stsword said:
And I think some people ought to have given it some freaking thought.

Nekron was banished by the White Light Entity about 14 billion years ago.

Nekron wants to kill the White Light Entity to reclaim his home.

So on one hand Nekron can kill the White Light Entity, make life conceptually impossible, and kill everything in 100+ billion galaxies at the exact same time and reclaim his home after about 14 billion freaking years.

Or he can waste energy to make a huge army to try to kill every single life form including single celled organisms in 100+ billion galaxies one at a time and still wouldn't let him reclaim his home until the White Light Entity was dead.

One of those plans is efficient in time and energy, the other one is wasteful in both time and energy.

So you say the DC writers screwed up. Yes, how dare they not have Nekron stupidly waste time and energy. Bad writers! No cookies for them!
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ok so your going on about how he doesn't need an army, then why the hell does he bother with the black lanterns at all? If he just needs them to gather hearts from people who died badly why not just raise one speedster and have him cull a city or two? Instead he went through the trouble of raising people's friends and sending them to mess with them.

either he doesn't need an army so he should have had fewer zombies, or he does need an army and he should have had stronger zombies.
 
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GodKiller999 said:
It is when canon it itself is the issue.
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We're arguing in circles. My point is that canon WOULDN'T be an issue if it had been handled strictly by past authors.

random_npc said:
ok so your going on about how he doesn't need an army, then why the hell does he bother with the black lanterns at all? If he just needs them to gather hearts from people who died badly why not just raise one speedster and have him cull a city or two? Instead he went through the trouble of raising people's friends and sending them to mess with them.

either he doesn't need an army so he should have had fewer zombies, or he does need an army and he should have had stronger zombies.
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You're attributing human-like motivations and reasoning to the personification of a fundamental emotional force. It doesn't work that way. Nekron's mindset isn't human-like at all, even if it sometimes seems like it.

The either-or choice you offer misses a third possibility: That the zombies were not just a means to an end, but an end unto themselves -- that Nekron's nature benefited from making zombies that way, regardless of their ultimate military utility.
 
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Coda said:
You're attributing human-like motivations and reasoning to the personification of a fundamental emotional force. It doesn't work that way. Nekron's mindset isn't human-like at all, even if it sometimes seems like it.

The either-or choice you offer misses a third possibility: That the zombies were not just a means to an end, but an end unto themselves -- that Nekron's nature benefited from making zombies that way, regardless of their ultimate military utility.
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i'm not the one saying that's why he made them. I'm just saying if they were made for practical a practical purpose they were poorly suited for it. Hell I mention neconr not being strategic is a possible reason for it a few posts up.
 
It would be hilarious if the eventual Blackest Night be over before it began only for the Orange Twilight/Dawn to immediately come crashing in like the Koolaid guy.
 
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