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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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random_npc said:
you know I can't help but think if she ever goes home she's going to make a heartfelt apology to her old mentor for being a brat. Her new mentor is rather brutally forcing her to deal with heavy consequences and learn the true weight of getting blood on her hooves.
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The one-two punch of Luna abdicating the throne and alicorn!Sunset apologizing to her would shatter poor Celestia's fragile sanity.

Seriously, Celestia spend a thousand years waiting to be reunited with her beloved sister while singlehandedly running a nation of childish idiots, only to be rejected in a "you're not worth the effort of hating" sort of way.

Celestia: "Can this day get any worse?"
Alicorn!Sunset: "Hello! A space monkey god helped me become a better person, reaching out to me in ways you never could."
Celestia: "..."
Alicorn!Sunset: "Celestia? Are you okay?"
Celestia: "There is no Celestia, there is only SOLARIS, QUEEN OF THE ETERNAL SUN!!!"
Dragon!Grayven: :eyeroll:

Quote of day:
"Always be yourself. Unless you can be a dragon, then always be a dragon."
 
StormRider said:
I think that there is an undercurrent to what Grayven is saying here. If you don't want someone using lethal force, don't allow for a situation that has lethal force as the best or only solution. The story with Magog illustrates it perfectly: it wasn't just Napier's actions that day that led Magog killing him, it was the fact that imprisonment didn't impede Napier from criminal action. If you don't want people killing supervillains to stop them, then have a way (prison, some other form of containment ) that actually works. If Arkham or some other prison could actually keep guys like Napier in, then they don't reoffend (a positive ) and no one is likely to feel the need to kill theme to prevent theme reoffend in (also a positive) since the prison is taking care of that.

I understand why the League, even Diana objected to killing Klarion, but it's the same problem. Without a viable method of containment to prevent the Witch Boys from genocidal mass-murder, lethal force was the only method available to prevent him from killing again. In this regard I actually think Paul is doing better, as he's trying to make the systems of imprisonment/criminal rehabilitation work the easy they should. Grayven is coming at the problem from the other direction, by arming cops to let them solve the problem themselves. Higher body count, but aiming in a similar direction.
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It's a bit more complex than that. If heroic law is such that anyone who kills is a villain, it doesn't allow for situation where someone does in fact need to die. If anyone who kills is a villain (and even most heroes internalize this belief) then what happens when a real hero kills a villain? They often go off the deepend. There needs to be a step between "hero who never kills" and those that came after Magog. What's funny is that Grayven sidestepped the issue by not even doing the killing himself in this case, and by being arrested (even if pardoned) the time he did. Plus he's a self professed super villain.
 
Vaermina said:
And remember killing Klarion actually backfired with an even worse Darkseid level threat replacing him.
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I hope it's not a worse level threat here, because in comic books this is a cliche. In comics, superheroes don't kill. So comics have to show the "bad consequences" of superheroes killing. One way they often do this is by showing that killing "backfired"--but in a way which really only means that they got unlucky this one time, not that killing is bad as a rule. The writer could equally well "show" that imprisonment is bad by having it backfire by bad luck too. (You imprison Klarion, taking him out of action causes a power vacuum, another chaos lord arises in the power vacuum, then Klarion escapes and you're worse than you started.)
 
Senevri said:
which probably also helps Nabu, considering a chunk of his issues are probably from the several-decade long lack of socialization. I find myself going a bit batty after a few weeks.
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My god, entire weeks of not having to deal with other people AT ALL? That sounds like Heaven, sir and/or madam, where the hell can I sign up?

drvash said:
Celestia: "There is no Celestia, there is only SOLARIS, QUEEN OF THE ETERNAL SUN!!!"
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Also, as far as insane tyrannical sun gods go, I've always been more partial to Pelor, the Burning Hate
 
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Mr Zoat said:
semi permanent
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semi-permanent

Mr Zoat said:
up and coming
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up-and-coming

Mr Zoat said:
Captain Adams
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Captain Adam's, unless his name is actually "Adams" and it's not the character I think it is.

Mr Zoat said:
That, combined with Parasite trying to use his own powers while injured resulted in a nuclear explosion
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Comma after "injured".

Mr Zoat said:
position to offer substantial assistance the Justice League is reformed
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Comma after "assistance".

Mr Zoat said:
Breech
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According to the linked article, "Breach".

Masked Thespian said:
This should read "No, I didn't." with a comma after 'No'. Even if you say it quickly, when written as speech it should always have a comma there.
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Keep in mind that formal writing follows different rules than informal writing. In informal writing, ESPECIALLY dialogue, every rule is allowed to be broken if it helps convey more information about the speaker and the manner of speaking. You wouldn't have complained about "NoIdidn't!" representing the statement being extremely rushed. Writing "No I didn't" instead of "No, I didn't" puts emphasis on the fact that there ISN'T a weighted pause after "no" because that changes the nuance of the statement.
 
I don't think Grayven realizes that going from one extreme to another without gradual change for the person to get used to it is going to cause mental damage. Not only that, but even knowing what actions have to be done doesn't necessarily give you the mental resilience to perform said action. Treating the rational of something as the only valuable variable is pretty moronic really, emotions aren't rational after all.
 
Honestly...an episode I really, really want to happen that I doubt ever will:

OL and Grayven switch places for a week. Imagine the backlash.
 
GodKiller999 said:
I don't think Grayven realizes that going from one extreme to another without gradual change for the person to get used to it is going to cause mental damage. Not only that, but even knowing what actions have to be done doesn't necessarily give you the mental resilience to perform said action. Treating the rational of something as the only valuable variable is pretty moronic really, emotions aren't rational after all.
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I think you underestimate the resilience of the psyche. It's true that trauma can cause damage, but JUST upsetting someone's moral framework isn't necessarily traumatic. Blowing away someone's worldview AND THEN throwing them out to deal with the changes on their own? That can be traumatic. But Grayven is actually doing a VERY good job here. He's providing a support network. He's actively helping Sunset work through her mental conflicts. He's got her working with peers that have different perspectives but who had to deal with the same events. He's tying things back to her other experiences so that she can establish continuity. He's helping her establish an understanding of her own thoughts and actions USING her own mental framework.
 
GodKiller999 said:
I don't think Grayven realizes that going from one extreme to another without gradual change for the person to get used to it is going to cause mental damage. Not only that, but even knowing what actions have to be done doesn't necessarily give you the mental resilience to perform said action. Treating the rational of something as the only valuable variable is pretty moronic really, emotions aren't rational after all.
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Grayven's cardinal Sin as always is hubris.

That said he also seems to be forgetting the being in question while she may look it isn't human.
 
Silverias said:
Honestly...an episode I really, really want to happen that I doubt ever will:

OL and Grayven switch places for a week. Imagine the backlash.
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That would be a pretty neat way to cross pollinate the various tech bases.

On the other hand, Grayven goes around saying he's Grayven of Apokolips, not Pavlos of Themyscira. So I don't think the situation would generate that much backlash. If the Gravy was a straight up evil twin type, sure, but he looks like, and presents as a totally different person.
 
Dr. Bob Doom said:
That would be a pretty neat way to cross pollinate the various tech bases.

On the other hand, Grayven goes around saying he's Grayven of Apokolips, not Pavlos of Themyscira. So I don't think the situation would generate that much backlash. If the Gravy was a straight up evil twin type, sure, but he looks like, and presents as a totally different person.
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Then maybe just an episode where OL gets dropped in Grayven's universe...and then comes back and hears about what Grayven did while he was gone.
 
Wheenesss said:
Of course, Paul might inadvertently fuck things up for Grayven by revealing that his counterpart isn't the real Grayven.
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For all intents and purposes, he is, though. He's got Grayven's soul and he's been acknowledged as the suzerain of Earth. Either Paul is an alternate Grayven that never regained his memories and powers, or Grayven is an alternate Paul, but it doesn't matter, because in all the ways that count, he's Grayven.
 
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