Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Because the ring isn't sufficiently analyzed magic.
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- USA
that's what i was saying. it is sufficiently advanced technology
but the MC in story explained it as such. which seemed odd to me
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Maybe you misremembered? Because I don't remember him ever saying anything of the sort.
- Location
- madison
I think the ring manipulates the same basic forces that spells do, but it doesn't use magic to do so. hence wards that block scrying attempts work, but stuff that directly impacts arcane energies do not.
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
Fire and lightning bolts are magic to cavemen. Doesn't mean you can power your computer by putting it over a fire. The ring and spell eaters use types of energy that could both be described as 'magic' by people who don't understand them.
Also, while there is magic that can use the emotional lights, it doesn't make the emotional lights themselves magic. You can make mundane lightning bolts with magic that spell eaters won't absorb.
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- Location
- USA
1. It is irrelevant what a caveman believes. Fire and lightning are not magic.
2. If the ring was using the same energy as magic then it would be consumed by the spell eater
3. We are not talking about powering a device which takes careful and exact application. We are talking about a disruption field. If you had a "lightening and fire can't work in his place" field then you will most certainly disrupt a computer that is inserted into it.
The spell eater doesn't care how it's structured, if it is magic energy it gets absorbed.
An actual plausible explanation would be that the ring is a completely different form of magic that uses a completely different form of energy than traditional magics. Namely emotional spectrum. but then, it gets blocked by anti scry wards and can convert demons... so...
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hance1986
The One Above All.
Does Helmut Schreiber have some leftover clone subliminal programming? Because his reaction seems to be more than just a superhero rolling up to him and saying he's a clone of Hitler and he's offended by that. I know this is a high stress situation and being compared to Hitler in any way, even if only by DNA is shocking, but some of his reactions seems more like disbelieving confirmation than anything else. Especially with that line 'I am not a murderer' did they try to implant Hitler memories in Schreiber or Hitler memories came up to the forefront from time to time that clash badly with who Schreiber is as a person?
Paul is not saying 'your genes are evil. you're evil. time to die.' It really feels like Schreiber is having some kind of panic attack because this is some kind of awful confirmation of things that came to him from time to time.
Plus switching to German then back to Portuguese. Looks like Kon wasn't the only clone made into a cunning linguist. Of course the Fuhrer should know his mother tongue, German.
OL does seem to regard the Emotional Spectrum as a supernatural force.
Hmmm. I wonder if a Maltusian sufficiently educated in magic could make a magic-powered power ring? You'd need to find a reliable magical energy source though...somehow I doubt that a Hell Lantern Ring would be a good idea.
Also, typo alert for Mr Zoat: "things"
And note that Emotional Spectrum energy is supernatural enough that they were able to turn a Succubus into a Love Elemental by linking her to the Violet Light as a power source instead of Hell.
Hmmm. I wonder if a Maltusian sufficiently educated in magic could make a magic-powered power ring? You'd need to find a reliable magical energy source though...somehow I doubt that a Hell Lantern Ring would be a good idea.
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Give it to Etrigan. If nothing else, he'll be good at oaths.
- Location
- USA
I got the same feeling too
- Location
- madison
It's using a different force to manipulate simlar stuff, so some anti magic defense work. like if magic was using metal tongs to dump acid on something, a power ring would be using a set of ceramic tongs. If the thing is acid proof it doesn't matter, but if its using a magnet to mess with the tongs the ring works just fine.
or at least that's my take on it.
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The heat isn't the issue. The heat is an indicator of the Spell Eater approaching critical capacity. If anything, the heat lets you know when you need to switch them out, because without the heat you suddenly find yourself missing a great chunk of your body when the Spell Eater you were wearing decides to catastrophically fail.
rkyeun
Cabbitus Maximus
- Location
- ◕ ‿‿ ◕
That might depend on your language. If you expect "fire and lightning" as a phrase to prevent a computer's lightning from working, that field would by the same logic stop the oxidation of your hemoglobin and combustion of your ATP to power cellular processes, on the grounds that your fire can't work.
I imagine most forms of magic wouldn't see "lightning" in a computer, it would be looking for large storm-related discharges in the sky, or "lightning" bolt spells or powers coming from other people. You might be able to argue for a Tesla coil or Van de Graaff generator being shut down by it.
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Triumph of the Will (part 19)
- Location
- Hampden Park
10th April
13:56 GMT -3
My body seizes up. Feels a little different to last time.
"And I must deny you your gun."
My construct railgun evaporates. Last time he just had me point it away from him. Can I-? Ring, swap current Spell Eater.
Spell Eater replaced.
Railgun!
Spell Eater temperature critical.
No! Damn it! How much power is he using?
Raquel dives past me, aiming at Wolf Krieger's chest. His eyes widen slightly and he takes a half-step backwards, bringing the Spear of Destiny around into a guard position. "Whenever you are-" Raquel closes the distance and he swings his weapon. The blade misses and the impact of the haft is absorbed by her kinetic belt. "-ready-" She hits and he's knocked back, though nothing like as much as a normal man would have been. "-A-Albrecht!"
"I'mma kick your nasty Nazi-!"
Albrecht shoots through the air from the living room and smashes his right fist down onto the top of Raquel's head. The belt absorbs most of the impact but she still slams into the floor. Wolf grimaces slightly before grabbing Mister Schreiber and roughly shoving him towards me. "Albrecht, kill the negro bitch while I restore the Führer to life. You." He strikes the butt of his spear on the floor again. "Back."
I find myself floating back out of the front door, the clearly terrified Mister Schreiber pushed after me. Albrecht stamps on Raquel's neck as Wolf studies me. "It is strange, you know? Even this close, my arcane senses try to tell me that you are not there. How have you achieved this marvellous thing?" I say nothing. "You may speak."
"W..? Why are you here? Why are you doing this?"
Wolf scowls at Mister Schreiber. "I did not mean you, you failed abortion. Ninety four attempts at creating a genetic duplicate of the Führer and you were the only one who lived."
"Why bother? I've seen portals to hell before. You must be capable of opening one without Mister Schreiber's help."
"Schreiber?" Wolf glances at him. "Is that what you call yourself? No matter. Yes, I could open a portal to hell, but how does that benefit me? How would I find one soul amongst the untold billions contained therein? But here! Here I have a living link to the Führer. A way to bind him to the material plane."
"That doesn't explain why. This isn't nineteen thirties Germany! Adolf Hitler is the most hated man in history! I don't care how charismatic he is, there's no way he'll be able to lead anyone!"
"After seventy years in hell? I doubt that he would be capable of doing so anyway. No, for all his virtues as a leader, I doubt that his mind remains in one piece after the tortures of hell."
"That's a surprisingly rational thing for you to say. Tell you what, just for that I'll give you a five minute head start."
"Ah, if only he had listened to me and abandoned that Christian weakness. But, by bringing back the withered soul of the Führer I can expunge Schreiber's soul. And then, I can use this body as a channel for the earthly ideal of fascism. I can build up a new spirit with what is left of Adolf Hitler at the core! For who better embodies the ideal of fascism than Adolf Hitler? Yes. From these base materials I shall forge a new god for the pure Aryan race! That is why I put up with those Slavic scum. Even they can add to the fuel of my ritual, though I doubt they will benefit much from it."
"And… I'm still alive… Because?"
"You have useful knowledge, and you are of European origin. When my new god is born, perhaps he will have a use for you. Perhaps his divine majesty will convert you. Or perhaps-" He raises the Spear of Destiny slightly. "-he will order me to convert you with the Spear. Or kill you out of hand. Who can say?"
"One of my great grandparents was Rom."
"Oh." He thinks for a moment. "That is not ideal. But… Three generations? It will be for the God-Führer to decide."
"So how come I'm not Nazified already? Green Lantern and The Flash made it clear that the mind control was pretty quick back during World War Two."
"I'm not as young as I was, and I have a smaller area of control to work with. Ah, the spirit of fascism! A marvellous source of strength! You know, I actually wept when the Kaiser abdicated." He shakes his head. "Such a young fool. Now-" He clenches his left hand into a fist, causing Mister Schreiber to rise helplessly into the air. "-hold still while I burn out your miserable little soul, yes?"
"Bastard fascist!"
"Portuguese." Wolf looks like he's swallowed something sour. "Could they not have sent you to a decent German-?"
The front of the house explodes as Albrecht is sent flying through the outer wall and digs a furrow across the grass before stopping in a heap! Brick blasts in all directions and Wolf is forced to duck as chunks of breeze block rain down on him.
"This 'negro bitch' just kicked your brother's ass." Raquel floats out of the hole. "You know what happens if you keep punching someone who absorbs kinetic energy?"
"Albrecht!"
I flex my right hand. Not quite fully under my own control yet, but…
Ring, swap Spell Eater.
Spell Eater replaced.
"You won't live long enough to face the God-Führer's wrath!" Raquel convulses. "Stop breathing."
No time for a railgun. The ring on my left hand shines for a second before the destructive bolt blasts out and strikes Wolf in the chest! "Ghaagh!" Finally he collapses!
"My brother!" Albrecht lunges through the air and punchesGUHHH!
Huh…
Wha..?
No… Wholeness Rightly Assumed!
Spell Eater temperature critical.
"I am not!" I push myself up to see Mister Schreiber stamp on Wolf's right hand as he reaches out to grab the Spear of Destiny from where it fell. "A fucking!" He grabs the Spear himself. "NAZI!" He shoves the Spear downwards blade first, right into Wolf's chest.
Immediately the control effect cuts off. Raquel falls to the floor, gasping for air. I rise, forming railguns and taking aim-
"You killed my brother! I will rip you apart!"
-at Albrecht. I open fire.
"Agh!"
I have no idea whether his power is arcane, metahuman or alchemical.
"Arrraaaaagh!"
So I just hit him with everything. Regular rounds, crumblers and mageslayers. On the off-chance I even use a couple of the angel feather fragment tipped ones John designed.
Normal Justice League rules about using lethal force don't apply to people sentenced to death at Nuremberg. The Germans insisted.
"Grawgwgwgwgwgwgwg…"
His chest thoroughly ruined, I put the barrels of my railguns directly over his eyes and fire once more.
"Witch! Bastard Nazi!" Mister Schreiber pulls the Spear free and stabs Wolf again and again. As I watch, whatever spells held his aging carcass together all this time fail. He doesn't decay completely, but he does take on the appearance of someone slightly mummified, like a climber who died too far up for bacteria to live and who was then dried out by the elements. Mister Schreiber then staggers back, breathing hard, Spear held inexpertly in a two handed grip. "Try taking my soul now!"
I give what's left of Albrecht a moment to see if he's getting back up. One of the possible sources of his power we brainstormed was some sort of improved Danner Formula. Abednego was part of the American eugenics movement and it wasn't impossible that he met Wolf and Albrecht's father… No, looks like he's staying dead. I walk over to Raquel and help her up.
"You alright?" She nods, taking in the bloody scene. "Okay. You get your breath back. I'll call Batman."
13:56 GMT -3
My body seizes up. Feels a little different to last time.
"And I must deny you your gun."
My construct railgun evaporates. Last time he just had me point it away from him. Can I-? Ring, swap current Spell Eater.
Spell Eater replaced.
Railgun!
Spell Eater temperature critical.
No! Damn it! How much power is he using?
Raquel dives past me, aiming at Wolf Krieger's chest. His eyes widen slightly and he takes a half-step backwards, bringing the Spear of Destiny around into a guard position. "Whenever you are-" Raquel closes the distance and he swings his weapon. The blade misses and the impact of the haft is absorbed by her kinetic belt. "-ready-" She hits and he's knocked back, though nothing like as much as a normal man would have been. "-A-Albrecht!"
"I'mma kick your nasty Nazi-!"
Albrecht shoots through the air from the living room and smashes his right fist down onto the top of Raquel's head. The belt absorbs most of the impact but she still slams into the floor. Wolf grimaces slightly before grabbing Mister Schreiber and roughly shoving him towards me. "Albrecht, kill the negro bitch while I restore the Führer to life. You." He strikes the butt of his spear on the floor again. "Back."
I find myself floating back out of the front door, the clearly terrified Mister Schreiber pushed after me. Albrecht stamps on Raquel's neck as Wolf studies me. "It is strange, you know? Even this close, my arcane senses try to tell me that you are not there. How have you achieved this marvellous thing?" I say nothing. "You may speak."
"W..? Why are you here? Why are you doing this?"
Wolf scowls at Mister Schreiber. "I did not mean you, you failed abortion. Ninety four attempts at creating a genetic duplicate of the Führer and you were the only one who lived."
"Why bother? I've seen portals to hell before. You must be capable of opening one without Mister Schreiber's help."
"Schreiber?" Wolf glances at him. "Is that what you call yourself? No matter. Yes, I could open a portal to hell, but how does that benefit me? How would I find one soul amongst the untold billions contained therein? But here! Here I have a living link to the Führer. A way to bind him to the material plane."
"That doesn't explain why. This isn't nineteen thirties Germany! Adolf Hitler is the most hated man in history! I don't care how charismatic he is, there's no way he'll be able to lead anyone!"
"After seventy years in hell? I doubt that he would be capable of doing so anyway. No, for all his virtues as a leader, I doubt that his mind remains in one piece after the tortures of hell."
"That's a surprisingly rational thing for you to say. Tell you what, just for that I'll give you a five minute head start."
"Ah, if only he had listened to me and abandoned that Christian weakness. But, by bringing back the withered soul of the Führer I can expunge Schreiber's soul. And then, I can use this body as a channel for the earthly ideal of fascism. I can build up a new spirit with what is left of Adolf Hitler at the core! For who better embodies the ideal of fascism than Adolf Hitler? Yes. From these base materials I shall forge a new god for the pure Aryan race! That is why I put up with those Slavic scum. Even they can add to the fuel of my ritual, though I doubt they will benefit much from it."
"And… I'm still alive… Because?"
"You have useful knowledge, and you are of European origin. When my new god is born, perhaps he will have a use for you. Perhaps his divine majesty will convert you. Or perhaps-" He raises the Spear of Destiny slightly. "-he will order me to convert you with the Spear. Or kill you out of hand. Who can say?"
"One of my great grandparents was Rom."
"Oh." He thinks for a moment. "That is not ideal. But… Three generations? It will be for the God-Führer to decide."
"So how come I'm not Nazified already? Green Lantern and The Flash made it clear that the mind control was pretty quick back during World War Two."
"I'm not as young as I was, and I have a smaller area of control to work with. Ah, the spirit of fascism! A marvellous source of strength! You know, I actually wept when the Kaiser abdicated." He shakes his head. "Such a young fool. Now-" He clenches his left hand into a fist, causing Mister Schreiber to rise helplessly into the air. "-hold still while I burn out your miserable little soul, yes?"
"Bastard fascist!"
"Portuguese." Wolf looks like he's swallowed something sour. "Could they not have sent you to a decent German-?"
The front of the house explodes as Albrecht is sent flying through the outer wall and digs a furrow across the grass before stopping in a heap! Brick blasts in all directions and Wolf is forced to duck as chunks of breeze block rain down on him.
"This 'negro bitch' just kicked your brother's ass." Raquel floats out of the hole. "You know what happens if you keep punching someone who absorbs kinetic energy?"
"Albrecht!"
I flex my right hand. Not quite fully under my own control yet, but…
Ring, swap Spell Eater.
Spell Eater replaced.
"You won't live long enough to face the God-Führer's wrath!" Raquel convulses. "Stop breathing."
No time for a railgun. The ring on my left hand shines for a second before the destructive bolt blasts out and strikes Wolf in the chest! "Ghaagh!" Finally he collapses!
"My brother!" Albrecht lunges through the air and punchesGUHHH!
Huh…
Wha..?
No… Wholeness Rightly Assumed!
Spell Eater temperature critical.
"I am not!" I push myself up to see Mister Schreiber stamp on Wolf's right hand as he reaches out to grab the Spear of Destiny from where it fell. "A fucking!" He grabs the Spear himself. "NAZI!" He shoves the Spear downwards blade first, right into Wolf's chest.
Immediately the control effect cuts off. Raquel falls to the floor, gasping for air. I rise, forming railguns and taking aim-
"You killed my brother! I will rip you apart!"
-at Albrecht. I open fire.
"Agh!"
I have no idea whether his power is arcane, metahuman or alchemical.
"Arrraaaaagh!"
So I just hit him with everything. Regular rounds, crumblers and mageslayers. On the off-chance I even use a couple of the angel feather fragment tipped ones John designed.
Normal Justice League rules about using lethal force don't apply to people sentenced to death at Nuremberg. The Germans insisted.
"Grawgwgwgwgwgwgwg…"
His chest thoroughly ruined, I put the barrels of my railguns directly over his eyes and fire once more.
"Witch! Bastard Nazi!" Mister Schreiber pulls the Spear free and stabs Wolf again and again. As I watch, whatever spells held his aging carcass together all this time fail. He doesn't decay completely, but he does take on the appearance of someone slightly mummified, like a climber who died too far up for bacteria to live and who was then dried out by the elements. Mister Schreiber then staggers back, breathing hard, Spear held inexpertly in a two handed grip. "Try taking my soul now!"
I give what's left of Albrecht a moment to see if he's getting back up. One of the possible sources of his power we brainstormed was some sort of improved Danner Formula. Abednego was part of the American eugenics movement and it wasn't impossible that he met Wolf and Albrecht's father… No, looks like he's staying dead. I walk over to Raquel and help her up.
"You alright?" She nods, taking in the bloody scene. "Okay. You get your breath back. I'll call Batman."
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- Location
- Hampden Park
Thank you, corrected.
Add the letter 'r' to you brother's ass.
Also, fuck yes! Raquel is awesome!
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I did Nazi that coming! (had to say it)
Typos:
Typos:
"it"
"to the"
"only"
- Location
- Wall Gazing
His fuhrerious temperament ensures Wolf did nazi that coming.
...
I'll go now.
- Location
- USA
Clever point. Although that is not what I meant when I posited said hypothetical null field.
Your scenario would imply that the magic in question is literal and runs on english. Or even that the hypothetical field I posited is magical in origin to begin with.
And by that argument a vampire can be slain by poker chips used in gambling (the "stake" in the game)
Besides which, the difference between lightning and the electricity inside a computer is merely one of quantity.
and people should very well drop dead in a field "no fire" because their cells cannot perform oxidation reactions. Actually while we are at it their red blood cells won't be able to absorb oxygen either.
and they should drop dead in a field of no lightening because the nerves don't work, their heart's pacemaker doesn't fire, their lungs don't get commanded to breath, etc.
Biological organisms are so complex that they are extremely vulnerable to the elimination of some of the fundamental laws of reality.
Spell eater just absorbs everything, regardless of shape, size, intent... although, the spell eater doesn't consume souls does it? and souls are made of magic; this implies that my whole analogy is wrong since it doesn't actually consume all magic.
or, wasn't there a mention that people felt it tugging on their souls before?
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- Location
- Hampden Park
Thank you, corrected.
A very clear crowning moment of awesome for Mr. Helmut Schreiber, he has very much earned that name, right here.
- Status