Shepard Quest Mk VII, Age of Revy (ME/MCU)

I'm generally pro-Quarian (read: pro-Tali), but last time there was a general discussion regarding the Mirgant Fleet it was pointed out any discussion about giving things to the Migrant Fleet is really a discussion about directly or indirectly supporting their revanchist policies about Rannoch. If we give them regular ships? They can strap guns to them and use them as irregular frigates for the attack on Rannoch. If we give them a Liveship? That's more population spread around so losses on the attack on Rannoch are lighter. If we give them supplies? That's supplies that can be useful for retaking Rannoch. I'm inclined to help them if we can, but unless we're completely dismissing the Geth as having a seat at the table I think we need to be circumspect about how we deal with them.

That said I'm all for putting together some deal like "we'll send you X amount of dextro-OK food and medical supplies for help with understanding your distributed software, and if you help me figure out Dreadnought tech there's a new Liveship in it for you".

...then once we've got our AI license and our Big Brain Full Of AI Knowledge just go to Rannoch and ask for the planet back or something. I'll be honest this is one of those "something something something, profit?" parts of the plan.
 
These are all good points, but there's a problem: What's the alternative? What other option do they have? Whether they get access to the SA sealed tech or not we can build better ships than anyone else, by a significant margin. Either way they're gonna be buying from us or they're not going to be a military power going forward.
So basically, the Systems Alliance is basically a Superpower the way China is. A new rising manufacturing superpower that everyone relies on and cannot live without. But unlike China, the Systems Alliance is also a serves as a major source of Innovation due to the fact Revy Shepard is a major player.

Plus, the SA wants to integrate with the rest of the Galaxy. Most SA leaders know that humanity's future is with the Citadel and not outside of it. That means they want to deepen integration with the Citadel Space and be able to do commerce and exchanges with the Citadel. And if the SA wants the benefits of being part of the Citadel Space, then they will have to give something up in return for those rights and privileges. And, it is very likely that the possibility of further rights and privileges, such as a Council Seat, will depend on the SA's actions concerning PI. If the SA refuses to allow PI to sell certain tech to the Citadel and the tech gap continues to increase, then there will be consequences for the SA and PI.

Yeah, it's probably better to integrate into the Global economy. Let's take advantage of closer cooperation with the Council. The common stereotype is that the Asari are the Council's diplomats, politicians, and artists, the Turians are its soldiers, and the Salarians its scientists and intelligence apparatus. If that's the case, let's work to position ourselves as the workshop/factory of the Council. Why fight the Council, when we can instead influence policy through the products we make for them. Arc Reactors, Hypermodular components, repulsor engines, QEC communications, power armor, Peak Human medical treatments, cybernetics, naval ships, and laser weaponry.


I'm generally pro-Quarian (read: pro-Tali), but last time there was a general discussion regarding the Mirgant Fleet it was pointed out any discussion about giving things to the Migrant Fleet is really a discussion about directly or indirectly supporting their revanchist policies about Rannoch. If we give them regular ships? They can strap guns to them and use them as irregular frigates for the attack on Rannoch. If we give them a Liveship? That's more population spread around so losses on the attack on Rannoch are lighter. If we give them supplies? That's supplies that can be useful for retaking Rannoch. I'm inclined to help them if we can, but unless we're completely dismissing the Geth as having a seat at the table I think we need to be circumspect about how we deal with them.

That said I'm all for putting together some deal like "we'll send you X amount of dextro-OK food and medical supplies for help with understanding your distributed software, and if you help me figure out Dreadnought tech there's a new Liveship in it for you".

...then once we've got our AI license and our Big Brain Full Of AI Knowledge just go to Rannoch and ask for the planet back or something. I'll be honest this is one of those "something something something, profit?" parts of the plan.

Yeah, this is a really tricky position. If we're helping Tali out, it better be in a way that improve's the Quarian position that isn't military. Maybe just give a genetic treatment that improves their immune system. That way it takes the edge off of survival, and they don't have to panic anymore if their suit is punctured.
 
Yeah, this is a really tricky position. If we're helping Tali out, it better be in a way that improve's the Quarian position that isn't military. Maybe just give a genetic treatment that improves their immune system. That way it takes the edge off of survival, and they don't have to panic anymore if their suit is punctured.

"Great, we can redirect medicine production to making more guns". Hard to do without supporting their revanchism. (I know, it's hard. Keep looking for an answer, it's out there still!)

Yeah, it's probably better to integrate into the Global economy. Let's take advantage of closer cooperation with the Council. The common stereotype is that the Asari are the Council's diplomats, politicians, and artists, the Turians are its soldiers, and the Salarians its scientists and intelligence apparatus. If that's the case, let's work to position ourselves as the workshop/factory of the Council. Why fight the Council, when we can instead influence policy through the products we make for them. Arc Reactors, Hypermodular components, repulsor engines, QEC communications, power armor, Peak Human medical treatments, cybernetics, naval ships, and laser weaponry.

Interesting thought. I think we'll have trouble here, as there are probably more unemployed Taurians than there are human adults in the workforce just by virtue of 'we have dozens of planets with mature colonies on them'. Just setting up a few Hypermodular component factories throughout Citadel space here and there could end up challenging PI's market share.

We might have a chance with the QECs though; if we set up facilities that can efficiently churn out QECs even if it's just a few per year and then lease them to various governments for use on their planets I imagine we can become the established provider by the time the patent runs out. Other polities might try to set up their own systems but then they'd be trying to break into an established market where we hold institutional advantage.

...that way runs the Comstar business model though, which I'm not sure we want to emulate.
 
Interesting thought. I think we'll have trouble here, as there are probably more unemployed Taurians than there are human adults in the workforce just by virtue of 'we have dozens of planets with mature colonies on them'. Just setting up a few Hypermodular component factories throughout Citadel space here and there could end up challenging PI's market share.
It is noted that Turians generally hold Paragon Industries in high esteem, as Revy Shepard is seen as very "Turian" in terms of how she conducts her business and puts the welfare of others and that of her nation before herself. Examples include the generous genetic treatments for Humanity and later for Salarians, Turians, etc., her charitable donations regarding weapons for Human colonies, and the fact that she puts the SA and others before profits.

So, I imagine that if we set up factories or a branch of PI in Turian Space for goods meant for the Citadel Market, the Turians would be very accommodating.
 
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All of that is irrelevant. Like really irrelevant. A.) They make us a seated species to get at the top of the line toys. B.) They don't and settle for buying our top of the line export legal tech in order to remain a relevant power in the face of everyone else who will most certainly be doing that once the war ends. C.) The Turians don't buy from us and everyone else does once the war ends.

There's no scenario where our shipyards lay idle on any significant scale.
I think I see the problem; you are assuming we are going to be selling significant amounts of ships to foreign nations. There are a couple problems with that.

The first is that while things are clearly somewhat different in Mass Effect compared to real life there is a reason the sale of warships, and honestly a lot of military equipment in general, is the result of deals between nations not between a nation and a foreign corporation. We did get away with selling the Zama to the Hanar but that comes with some important caveats. We showed the Zama off in the same turn as we did the Lite Laser Pynda which is a vastly superior ship for a lower price (41.4 billion vs 36.3 billion). They are also both Frigates which are by far the most common type of starship; to the point the Terminus produces an AK-47 version in the Wuni so exporting them likely isn't viewed the same way as "real warships" aka Light Cruisers and up.

The next is economics. Starships are expensive as hell. As a point of comparison your basic Gladius fighter, if we sold them, would go for ~350 million. Even the Wuni Frigate costs 18 billion credits or 51 Gladii fighters and a Zama at 41.4 billion represents 118 Gladii. The Hanar have gone all in on their military overhaul committing to building the largest military they can economically sustain:
It has been recently announced that the Hanar intend to replace their entire fleet with new vessels and to build up to the largest possible Navy that they can possibly sustain economically. This includes seven brand new Dreadnought class vessels, as well as five to six thousand other combat vessels and numerous additional support craft.
but they are on what is basically a religious crusade. No one else is going to be interested in completely overhauling their navy at the cost of their entire economy.


This all ties in to the biggest problem; militaries exist for a reason. The Turians have the biggest baddest military in the galaxy because that is their job. They are the Citadel Council's beatstick intended to defend against unexpected threats and, more commonly, enforce Council edicts on its members by the threat they impose. Outside of them however most navies are for shows of economic might (hence the Destiny Ascension), defense against pirates, and for centuries now a hedge against the Batarian Hegemony and the Terminus. Once the war is over however the last big military threat to the Citadel will be broken. With the Hegemony shattered and the Terminus' fleet likely shredded in their defense who is left in the known galaxy to pose a threat? What danger exists that would drive a massive and expensive overhaul of militaries across the galaxy?

In short why would anyone care that the Alliance had the most advance navy in the galaxy? They've lived under the Turians having the largest and (to a lesser degree) most advanced nation in the galaxy for centuries. The Alliance isn't a threat; we're a tiny nation with an insane amount of space to grow into and a slow reproductive rate that we won't fill that space for centuries to millennia.



So without an immediate and pressing threat driving nations to upgrade I expect most nations will do exactly what the Turians did in response to the Legionary; invest in their own development programs. They can't reverse engineer our technology but its simple existence proves that it is both possible and not outside existing manufacturing capabilities. Sure it might take them decades to create imitations but they have no reason to feel rushed and doing so builds their nations rather then fueling the expansion of the Alliance.



Also, even if we don't give them a planet, we already have our own system; just letting them stay there - with the promise that their mining claims and facilities will be respected and not run out of town - would be a major boon.
The Fortuna system was actually an interesting choice in this regard. Amaranthine is uninhabitable (1.16g, -178C, 1.19atm, CO2/N2 atmosphere) but so is Maganlis (1.1g, -150C, 1.03atm, SO2 atmosphere) and they honestly aren't that different in terms of habitability. The temperature needs increasing (Arc Reactors!) and the atmospheric composition isn't breathable but outside that they are fairly close to habitability. Amaranthine is preferable since we can crack the CO2 into O2 and carbon for a Nitrogen/Oxygen mixture that is friendly to humans but while SO2 is harder to work with it isn't so problematic that setting up Arcologies on Maganlis is impractical.

That said I doubt we could offer the Quarians space within our system because while we "own" it it is deep in the Systems Alliance heartland and I doubt they want to be inviting a foreign nation to live there. We are better off grabbing Virmire during, or at the end, of the war since the main problem with colonizing that has always been the threat of raids from the Terminus. The Quarians have the fleet needed to keep it safe, we can build Quarian friendly Arcologies there, and they can alter the biosphere using our Bioforming technology:
[ ] Improved Colonization/Bioforming Genetics Package [800] (Requires Biology Skill Rank B): Increase the speed of safe bioforming and amount of types of worlds that could be changed to be habitable, bringing down the timeline from centuries to mere decades. Would open up much greater range of worlds the package could apply to. (Biotech)

Best of all this mostly deals with this problem:
I'm generally pro-Quarian (read: pro-Tali), but last time there was a general discussion regarding the Mirgant Fleet it was pointed out any discussion about giving things to the Migrant Fleet is really a discussion about directly or indirectly supporting their revanchist policies about Rannoch.
Virmire requires the Migrant Fleet to defend it, Virmire requires resources to bioform, Virmire is an attractive planet to live on. The first keeps them from going on military adventures, the second keeps their resources focused on their new "home", and the last passively wins over the populace to colonization over vengeance.
 
That said I doubt we could offer the Quarians space within our system because while we "own" it it is deep in the Systems Alliance heartland and I doubt they want to be inviting a foreign nation to live there. We are better off grabbing Virmire during, or at the end, of the war since the main problem with colonizing that has always been the threat of raids from the Terminus. The Quarians have the fleet needed to keep it safe, we can build Quarian friendly Arcologies there, and they can alter the biosphere using our Bioforming technology:
It's my understanding that the Migrant Fleet spends basically all their time wandering around other people's territory, staying in one system until the locals run them off (either personally or by calling the national military in). But in Fortuna, the local authorities are us. As long as we are willing to put up with them, and they aren't doing anything to bother the rest of the Systems Alliance, the SA doesn't really have any reason to bother intervening.

It would be different if we tried to outright cede them territory, but that's not what I'm proposing.
 
Ok then how does that help anything? If they're gonna just stay in their ships then what exactly is the plan to turn this into financial, social, or political capital?
 
"Great, we can redirect medicine production to making more guns". Hard to do without supporting their revanchism. (I know, it's hard. Keep looking for an answer, it's out there still!)
Damn. This is hard. But then again, we help out our friends (or potential friends). And nobody said friendship would be easy. I view Tali in a similar light to Veronica from Fallout NV. Regardless of our actual opinions of the organizations they hail from, Tali, like Veronica, is still a friend, and those are worth fighting for.

Interesting thought. I think we'll have trouble here, as there are probably more unemployed Taurians than there are human adults in the workforce just by virtue of 'we have dozens of planets with mature colonies on them'. Just setting up a few Hypermodular component factories throughout Citadel space here and there could end up challenging PI's market share.
Not just Hypermodular components. We have several pieces of technology, and we certainly need more factories than there are humans for the different types of factories we have plans for. For example, Cybernetics. Cybernetic components need to be tailored to a specific race. A Turian isn't gonna be happy if he has to replace his arm with one that is designed for Humans. If the Turians need employment, lets open up factories that are dedicated to the production of technology specifically tailored to the Turian market.
 
Setting up a world for the Quarians to get as a base means we can set them up a good distance away from Rannoch, sure they can still divert a lot of resources to trying to one day retake the world but if we make it a logistical hassle to move their stuff that far we decrease the likelihood they'll ever bother. Especially if we fix enough of their other problems that the Rannoch or bust faction can't keep the rest of the pop too worked up to think.
 
Damn. This is hard. But then again, we help out our friends (or potential friends). And nobody said friendship would be easy. I view Tali in a similar light to Veronica from Fallout NV. Regardless of our actual opinions of the organizations they hail from, Tali, like Veronica, is still a friend, and those are worth fighting for.
One thing to remember is that before Tali met Legion, her views on the Geth and the retaking of Rannoch were in line with most Quarians who dreamed of retaking Rannoch. After all, her father was Admiral Rael'Zorah. She didn't see the Geth as sentient beings and had no qualms with conducting extreme experiments on the Geth as long as it didn't endanger the Migrant Fleet. In-game, her views would not change unless she meets Legion. Not to mention, her father promised her that he would build a house for her on the home world. This promise for a better future for her and their people drove her father to do whatever it took to retake the homeworld. This promise pushes Tali to do whatever mission her father and the Admiralty Board require of her.

Tali is one of my favorite characters in Mass Effect. Game-wise, I want nothing but happiness and prosperity for her and her people, especially seeing how often Quarians are treated like shit by other races. But, unless she meets Legion, Tali will likely be one of the biggest opponents to the notion that Quarians should abandon any hope of retaking Rannoch. After all, Admiral Koris, while being one of the biggest proponents of peace with the Geth and a highly respected Admiral within the Civilian Fleet, is seen as eclectic for desiring to leave the Geth alone and seek out a new homeworld/the possibility of living in peace with the Geth in Mass Effect 3.

In any case, it is guaranteed that Revy will meet Tali in the future, but Tali will likely use her time with Revy and PI to prepare for the day that the Quarians move to retake Rannoch from the Geth.

And Revy, quest-wise, would likely have a choice of aiding Tali in this goal or not aiding her at risk of alienating Tali.
 
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An idea I had, what if we bought a bunch of seemingly worthless uninhabitable planets only to then go around and Terraform them? Say something like buying a hundred planets with not much or even no real material resources to speak of to buy them for cheap.

A major reason that a lot of planets can't be terraformed is due to them being outside the Goldilocks Zone. AKA that sweet spot between hot and cold where most life can comfortably exist. Imagine that we would be able to eventually build something like a giant planet sized beam tractor to move planets to such zones.
 
An idea I had, what if we bought a bunch of seemingly worthless uninhabitable planets only to then go around and Terraform them? Say something like buying a hundred planets with not much or even no real material resources to speak of to buy them for cheap.

A major reason that a lot of planets can't be terraformed is due to them being outside the Goldilocks Zone. AKA that sweet spot between hot and cold where most life can comfortably exist. Imagine that we would be able to eventually build something like a giant planet sized beam tractor to move planets to such zones.
think that was brought up before, planet flipping.
 
An idea I had, what if we bought a bunch of seemingly worthless uninhabitable planets only to then go around and Terraform them? Say something like buying a hundred planets with not much or even no real material resources to speak of to buy them for cheap.

A major reason that a lot of planets can't be terraformed is due to them being outside the Goldilocks Zone. AKA that sweet spot between hot and cold where most life can comfortably exist. Imagine that we would be able to eventually build something like a giant planet sized beam tractor to move planets to such zones.
Its something that keeps getting mentioned, but:

we're a tiny nation with an insane amount of space to grow into and a slow reproductive rate that we won't fill that space for centuries to millennia.
Its not something we really have an urgent need for.

And well, while any and all terra forming will depend on the very specific case in front of us... If we wanted to terraform something like Mars, using a tractor beam to move it would only be a tiny part of the problem.
Transporting a new atmosphere to it would probably be a lot harder.
Starting a magnetic field, is a Kardeshev 1 (or near) level problem and while it may or may not be possible, I doubt that its possible and profitable. Especially if we can't do something simple like crash large metalic asteroids into it until the core is large enough to maintain a sufficiently powerful field because we need to sell that planet and live on it before the neo Haden era is over.
So any planet we can terraform cost effectively will already be borderline habitable.
 
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Ok then how does that help anything? If they're gonna just stay in their ships then what exactly is the plan to turn this into financial, social, or political capital?
It helps by giving the Quarians a chance to actually mine asteroids, patch up their ships, and generally do stuff without constantly being on the run.
 
And well, while any and all terra forming will depend on the very specific case in front of us... If we wanted to terraform something like Mars, using a tractor beam to move it would only be a tiny part of the problem.
Transporting a new atmosphere to it would probably be a lot harder.
Starting a magnetic field, is a Kardeshev 1 (or near) level problem and while it may or may not be possible, I doubt that its possible and profitable. Especially if we can't do something simple like crash large metalic asteroids into it until the core is large enough to maintain a sufficiently powerful field because we need to sell that planet and live on it before the neo Haden era is over.
So any planet we can terraform cost effectively will already be borderline habitable.
Eh, we already know that we have the potential to terraform planets in decades and that's not even the higher tier stuff. Like comic science tends to be pretty high tier after all considering that one of our inventions is a freaking Arc Reactor. I imagine that terraforming planets may not actually be that hard. And I do think it could be a highly profitable venture considering that we have tech no one else has.

Besides it seems like a hell of a flex to be able to have something like 100 planets and them being uninhabitable at first seems like the best way to do that.
 
In any case, it is guaranteed that Revy will meet Tali in the future, but Tali will likely use her time with Revy and PI to prepare for the day that the Quarians move to retake Rannoch from the Geth.

And Revy, quest-wise, would likely have a choice of aiding Tali in this goal or not aiding her at risk of alienating Tali.
Yep. That's a shame. Well, we'll have to see how we meet up in the future. Maybe keep Cortana out of sight until Tali is close enough that we can trust her to not try to kill Cortana.
 
Eh, we already know that we have the potential to terraform planets in decades and that's not even the higher tier stuff. Like comic science tends to be pretty high tier after all considering that one of our inventions is a freaking Arc Reactor. I imagine that terraforming planets may not actually be that hard. And I do think it could be a highly profitable venture considering that we have tech no one else has.

Besides it seems like a hell of a flex to be able to have something like 100 planets and them being uninhabitable at first seems like the best way to do that.
I noticed that you actually ignored half the point, that the prices would be relatively low because theres already an abundance of planets.

And its hard to say what stuffs going to look like in the future because we aren't actually cleaving all that closely to comic book science. For the most part this is all relatively hard, or as hard as we can make it, with carve sci fantasy carve out exceptions for the premise of ME and the quest. Its why we have a large variety of laser techs on the tree despite Iron man not really using xray lasers, and why we don't have the Uni Beam and its been swallowed up by Repulsors.
Theres still some comic tech up there with Mechs and the like, but for the most part I think as an audience we've preferred to engage with the "realistic" aspects of the story which is why wars are mostly won with navies and we're talking about Pyndas rather than talking about heroic "only you can do this Revy" missions based around Iron man suits.
Obviously if Terraforming is up there there will be some kind of use we can get out of it, however given other tendencies I'd lean towards it being harder than softer.
 
I had a thought to address the issue with mech sales.

Since people aren't sold on the combat viability of mechs, we can sponsor a mecha combat league or three, even if it doesn't prove the combat viability it's still gonna be great entertainment. Plus we could re-enact various famous mecha battles, or produce live action versions of old mecha series.
 
I had a thought to address the issue with mech sales.

Since people aren't sold on the combat viability of mechs, we can sponsor a mecha combat league or three, even if it doesn't prove the combat viability it's still gonna be great entertainment. Plus we could re-enact various famous mecha battles, or produce live action versions of old mecha series.
The problem is our Mechs just aren't big enough yet!

I'm actually being serious here. We have five meter mechs which sound tall until you look at a size comparison and realize just how few popular mechs are under five meters. The fifteen meter mark meanwhile covers a significantly wider range of designs. Or another way to think about it is that five meter mechs are just oversized power armor (see the Hulk Buster at 3.3m) while fifteen meter mechs are large enough to be their own distinct class of unit.

Investing in larger mechs would also help with using them for entertainment. While 40k Dreadnoughts and most Code Geass Knightmare Frames fall under the five meter mark stuff like Titanfall Titans, Macross/Robotech Veritechs, Armored Core ACs, or BattleTech BattleMechs are all in the 5-15 meter range.
 
We bought a planet, money is not the bottleneck here.
...
Over the course of two posts you went from "Heres how we might make money off of mechs" to "I don't see why you care about making money"
Literally:
I had a thought to address the issue with mech sales.
We bought a planet, money is not the bottleneck here.
Make up your mind.
I've never seen someone shift goalposts so aggressively.
 
The problem is our Mechs just aren't big enough yet!

I'm actually being serious here. We have five meter mechs which sound tall until you look at a size comparison and realize just how few popular mechs are under five meters. The fifteen meter mark meanwhile covers a significantly wider range of designs. Or another way to think about it is that five meter mechs are just oversized power armor (see the Hulk Buster at 3.3m) while fifteen meter mechs are large enough to be their own distinct class of unit.

Investing in larger mechs would also help with using them for entertainment. While 40k Dreadnoughts and most Code Geass Knightmare Frames fall under the five meter mark stuff like Titanfall Titans, Macross/Robotech Veritechs, Armored Core ACs, or BattleTech BattleMechs are all in the 5-15 meter range.

*Sage nod*
I see. We must construct Alfredo Linguini.

...I was originally going to cross that out and write in an actual suggestion but I think I'll just leave that there. +1 to 'build a bigger robot' though.

Should we work on licensing deals with IP holders to produce versions of their mechs for combat arenas?
 
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