Shepard Quest Mk VII, Age of Revy (ME/MCU)

The problem is our Mechs just aren't big enough yet!

I'm actually being serious here. We have five meter mechs which sound tall until you look at a size comparison and realize just how few popular mechs are under five meters. The fifteen meter mark meanwhile covers a significantly wider range of designs. Or another way to think about it is that five meter mechs are just oversized power armor (see the Hulk Buster at 3.3m) while fifteen meter mechs are large enough to be their own distinct class of unit.

Investing in larger mechs would also help with using them for entertainment. While 40k Dreadnoughts and most Code Geass Knightmare Frames fall under the five meter mark stuff like Titanfall Titans, Macross/Robotech Veritechs, Armored Core ACs, or BattleTech BattleMechs are all in the 5-15 meter range.
Also, huge mechs can do one-on-one combat with Reapers! However, I am hoping that if we invest enough in Mammoth Tanks and then Planetary Siege Units, we can have mobile guns capable of knocking out Reapers with one shot. Sort of like mobile planetary defense guns.

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In-game, Reapers are essentially mobile planetary siege units/Mechs that land on the planet to wipe out organized Resistance. In the game, there isn't really an effective counter to Reapers who land planetside other than orbital bombardment, which is wholly dependent on having space supremacy. In Quest, I would like to see Reapers land and face off against our own Mechs/Planetary siege units.
 
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Question, can we make Gundam wings double buster rifle?
That would be a nasty surprise for any invader. Though heavy arms might be more useful due to it's Gatling gun and missile pods.
 
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Also, huge mechs can do one-on-one combat with Reapers! However, I am hoping that if we invest enough in Mammoth Tanks and then Planetary Siege Units, we can have mobile guns that are capable of knocking out Reapers with one shot. Sort of like mobile planetary defense guns.
Reaper Wrestling sadly requires going full Super Robot since even the comparatively tiny Destroyer-class Reaper is ~160m tall and proper Reapers like Sovereign and Harbinger are two kilometers tall. Basically Destroyer Reapers make a full Imperator-class Titan (~100m) look small and even SDF-1 (1210m) pales in size to proper Reapers. A 150m Mech for taking on Destroyer Reapers is 3200RP tech and gated behind 50m Mechs (1600RP) and 15m Mechs (800RP) and we max out at 500m Mech for 6400RP. Or to put that another way our tallest Mech would barely reach up to Harbinger's lowest eyes.

On the bright side Transformation Systems is locked behind 15m Mechs so accurate Veritechs or Land-Air BattleMechs (AKA: :turian:Legally Distinct Veritechs:turian:) are possible.
 
On the bright side Transformation Systems is locked behind 15m Mechs so accurate Veritechs or Land-Air BattleMechs (AKA: :turian:Legally Distinct Veritechs:turian:) are possible.
or we can just straight up bought battletech and name them veritech(if the intellectual property of bateltech hasn't become public long ago)
 
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Over the course of two posts you went from "Heres how we might make money off of mechs" to "I don't see why you care about making money"
Literally:


Make up your mind.
I've never seen someone shift goalposts so aggressively.
Mech sales being low isn't bad because we aren't making money, it's bad because there's not enough cool mechs running around doing cool mech things. No goal posts were shifted.

Furthermore even if money was the ultimate point, which on some level I suppose it still is, using ridiculous amounts of money to set up an industry to dominate and make even more ridiculous amounts of money is still a sound financial move.
 
Mech sales being low isn't bad because we aren't making money, it's bad because there's not enough cool mechs running around doing cool mech things. No goal posts were shifted.

Furthermore even if money was the ultimate point, which on some level I suppose it still is, using ridiculous amounts of money to set up an industry to dominate and make even more ridiculous amounts of money is still a sound financial move.
Do you know why I responded to your post but not Red Bovines?
Because "I just wanna do mechs because I think they're cool" is a take I can respect. I don't agree with it, but I can respect the attitude.
If you'd started with that I wouldn't have responded to you either, but when you lead with a dumb take like
I had a thought to address the issue with mech sales.
Then either defend that obviously stupid position, admit its wrong, or just don't respond. Don't try and shift onto a different topic and pretend that I was arguing the other point this entire time. Because I'm not going to let you.
You started with "Heres a way to make money out of mechs" if you think that's still right, lets here the reason that investing time, money and research effort would pay itself back in a way that just using CGI wouldn't I'm happy to hear you out.
Creating a new industry is only worth as much as the total market share of that industry, now theres no way to know what the sports idea market value would be so I let that one slide. Movies and TV theres a known value, however we don't need mechs for that, so why bother?
 
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Honestly, what I'm waiting for in regards to mechs is Hulkbuster armor. Because that is one of my favorite suits that Tony invented.

Quick question guys. Suppose Revy figured out a way to synthesize Vibranium, or if not, maybe manage to discover a planet rich in the stuff. What would be the best way to use it? Considering that vibranium would be considered a strategic resource, I'm guessing that if we discovered it, the Systems Alliance would want to retain control of the critical resource.
 
Do you know why I responded to your post but not Red Bovines?
Because "I just wanna do mechs because I think they're cool" is a take I can respect. I don't agree with it, but I can respect the attitude.
If you'd started with that I wouldn't have responded to you either, but when you lead with a dumb take like

Then either defend that obviously stupid position, admit its wrong, or just don't respond. Don't try and shift onto a different topic and pretend that I was arguing the other point this entire time. Because I'm not going to let you.
You started with "Heres a way to make money out of mechs" if you think that's still right, lets here the reason that investing time, money and research effort would pay itself back in a way that just using CGI wouldn't I'm happy to hear you out.
Creating a new industry is only worth as much as the total market share of that industry, now theres no way to know what the sports idea market value would be so I let that one slide. Movies and TV theres a known value, however we don't need mechs for that, so why bother?
Except that you're wrong. I started with 'here's a way to get more mechs in circulation'. You're assuming that I'm focused on money as the end result. I'm not, though I still like money, I'm focused on getting mech units out and about, and in use.

As far as using them for live action shows over CGI, it's for a lot of the same reasons we still make stop animation films like Kubo of the two strings, or use actual flight film in movies like top gun. I'm not sure what those reasons are specifically, but I assume there is in fact a reason because holy shit is stop-animation a pain in the ass.
 
IIRC we're using some mechs as construction aides (as well as drones). What sort of nonmilitary uses for mechs can we figure out to make mechs up to the 15 meter level?

Weren't we also planning to incorporate artificial biotic tech into mechs as the excuse for making them bipedal war machines instead of hovering bricks?
 
Well there's always labor and disaster relief, taller mechs mean they can build bigger buildings, there's the sport and entertainment industry options, they might be more useful as void workers than ground pounders, especially for asteroid mining or space station work (especially as short range tugs and loaders), might be better for exploration and survey than similarly sized auxillary craft.
 
We don't even know if Vibranium exists in this universe.
Our material science is good enough that we can basically make a material with any set of properties that we want however Vibranium is a good candidate for the Unobtainium tech level that is the next and final step.
Ah. But if Vibranium did exist, what technologies should we integrate it into? Like, we probably can't use it inside vehicles built for everyday use, but maybe we can use it in specialized gear for special forces or design special ships for the Spectres?

Also, aside from the Hulk Buster Armor, another thing I'm hoping for is to be able to build Falcon's wingsuit. We probably have flight capabilities for our armor already, I just think the gear in Marvel is cool.
 
Except that you're wrong. I started with 'here's a way to get more mechs in circulation'. You're assuming that I'm focused on money as the end result. I'm not, though I still like money, I'm focused on getting mech units out and about, and in use.

As far as using them for live action shows over CGI, it's for a lot of the same reasons we still make stop animation films like Kubo of the two strings, or use actual flight film in movies like top gun. I'm not sure what those reasons are specifically, but I assume there is in fact a reason because holy shit is stop-animation a pain in the ass.
....
But... Thats worse.
Its one thing to say "We can get more sales by creating industries to sell to our selves." but now if you want them in circulation rather than just being sold and used...

The total budget of Kubo was $60 Million. Now, that is a lot of money, but its not a lot of money in terms of major movie releases. In fact it feels pretty normal possibly even low. The Legionary suit costs 2.1 Million, now the square cube law suggests a 5m mech somewhere around 2--3 times its sie should cost about $8 million, but since these aren't military devices lets say we can keep the price at $2 million. If you want a scene where two mechs interact with each other you've just added 4 million credits onto your budget, and you're still going to have to do green screens, visual enhancements all the other CGI stuff that even relatively simple modern movies use. And even if somebody still wants to use a mech... The YMIR Mech probably does it cheaper as it doesn't need to fit a person inside, so it doesn't have as high requirements to compact things. Or they'd rather have like a dozen that are rented between all movies putting an extremely low market ceiling on this plan to get them into circulation.

And it also is a real dent in the sports plan, because now, it doesn't matter if Revy doesn't care about money, we need to ask if the third parties who are going to be starting up competing mech ball teams care about losing money. All of the maths I laid out above still apply and more, its going to leave basic start up costs at $10million for just the mechs for a 5 person team, a typical stadium can cost millions, and you can't get away from the square cube law here unless you want the game to be a mosh pit, I've already reduced team size from a typical sport and you're still going to need a stadium 4 times the dimensions of a equivilant human sized stadium to give them the same proportional space to move.
For a completely unknown sport with hard to predict returns, it seems like you could start 5 or 6 traditional sports teams with far more predictable returns.
And none of this mentions the maintainance costs.

Finally theres the concern that I just ignored because the Alliance gives Revy a lot of lee way with her eccentricities, however if she's not selling her sports and movie mechs to Paragon Studios and Paragon Sports, and instead they're being sold to the Batarian who wants to start the Khar'Shan team, then its likely that they're going to try and block it because this is way too close to selling bleeding edge military technology to third party civillians.
 
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Sold and used is what in circulation means. Once we sell one people can do whatever with it.
This feels like a trick to try and get as many pieces of PI tech onto the market in the hopes that with sufficient amounts you can crack the black boxing.
Can you prove you're not Sovereign?
Or possibly Obadiah Stane. No, who owns the stuff and what they're using is to some degree our responsibility, that was the moral of the first movie.
 
Finally theres the concern that I just ignored because the Alliance gives Revy a lot of lee way with her eccentricities, however if she's not selling her sports and movie mechs to Paragon Studios and Paragon Sports, and instead they're being sold to the Batarian who wants to start the Khar'Shan team, then its likely that they're going to try and block it because this is way too close to selling bleeding edge military technology to third party civillians.

We might sidestep this by having all the teams be (legally) in-house with PI and just have the different teams be various branch offices. The Mindor Maws vs the Bekenstein Buglers, etc. Give each branch office a stipend for customizing their team (maybe reach out and license Gundam aesthetics for one of them?) and have the teams compete in various events; straight up combat, some sort of Mario-Kart track (each planet has their own custom one?), a soccer/football stadium sized for 5m mechs etc. Get a few seasons of demolition derbies and Veritech Tennis to feel out the market (maybe farm the exo-net for suggestions? I'm sure there are people with opinions on Giant Robot Sports) and some of the uncertainty of start-up costs, marketing and maintenance should disappear and other companies might be more willing to get involved, if only doing something like building stadiums or sponsoring a team (that for legal reasons, until the SA military relaxes a few policies, remain PI property but certain liberties like design aesthetic and schedule of events are sold(?)) might get people to ease into the idea.
 
By that logic we should never sell anything. You're trying to draw some distinction between the two, but not explaining what that distinction is supposed to be.
 
By that logic we should never sell anything. You're trying to draw some distinction between the two, but not explaining what that distinction is supposed to be.
Hang on you're conflating a lot of things. And I've listed a lot of things that you keep dancing around.

You've said that we're not selling things for money, we're selling them so they're in circulation, without ever explaining why circulating mechs is a benefit.
I do support the idea that we shouldn't sell things for the sake of selling things. We should sell things to make profit so that we can do shit with the money. I don't think this needs to be explained.

I do support the idea that we shouldn't sell cutting edge military technology for civillian applications. And certainly not to anybody at all.
Finally theres the concern that I just ignored because the Alliance gives Revy a lot of lee way with her eccentricities, however if she's not selling her sports and movie mechs to Paragon Studios and Paragon Sports, and instead they're being sold to the Batarian who wants to start the Khar'Shan team, then its likely that they're going to try and block it because this is way too close to selling bleeding edge military technology to third party civillians.
I do support the idea that we bear some moral responsibility for what our technology is used for even after we've sold it.
Or possibly Obadiah Stane. No, who owns the stuff and what they're using is to some degree our responsibility, that was the moral of the first movie.
Finally I support pointing out ideas are bad, for the sake of making it apparent to everyone that its a bad idea
Do you know why I responded to your post but not Red Bovines?
Because "I just wanna do mechs because I think they're cool" is a take I can respect. I don't agree with it, but I can respect the attitude.
If you'd started with that I wouldn't have responded to you either, but when you lead with a dumb take like
Then either defend that obviously stupid position, admit its wrong, or just don't respond

Could you repeat any points you think I haven't addressed. Because I've defended why these are bad for a movie special effects position from at least three different points, expensive and doesn't meaningfully reduce the effects budget in other way, there are cheaper competitors on the market already and the market value ceiling is probably relatively low because they aren't going to buy them for each movie when they could rent instead.

Ever since then you've just repeated
Sold and used IS in circulation.
as if that means something.
 
Look if we sell a movie studio a mech to film a live action version of Mobile fighter G Gundam, that mech is in circulation. It's not in some mysterious third state between unsold and in circulation. Our stuff is in circulation, why you object to that terminology is not something I understand, the minute I used it however you started comparing me to Obadiah stane. So either explain or stop it, because you're being a jerk.

Sure we can avoid selling it directly to pirates and such, but that doesn't mean our stuff stops being in circulation.

As far as using them in films, ummm you have addressed 0 points. We know that using the actual mechs isn't the most efficient or cost effective way to tell the story, but even now irl film studios don't always, or even often take the most efficient routes. Stop animation is itself an exercise in massive inefficiency in service to art and spectacle. The use of real warplanes in top gun is also far from efficient or necessary, but it still happens. So there's no reason we couldn't use the real mechs to make movies and shows with, sure it's not efficient, but that's not an issue films care about now, why would they care about that in mass effect revy future? Hell we could just start a studio to do it ourselves if nobody is biting.

Renting or buying doesn't matter for our purposes, not for the film studios anyway.

The league matches it matters a bit more.

Mechs being out and about doing mech things, and being seen doing mech things, is a benefit because people like mechs. If we can make them work in industries besides the military people will buy mechs, innovate with them, expand on them, and increase the demand for mechs and mech accessories. Even if we never make them a major military thing, we can make them important in other places. That way we get to have cool mechs all over the place, doing cool mech things, and make it self sustaining so that we'll have consistent demand. This means we get paid to produce mechs, it probably wouldn't be a net profit for a long while, but we can eat the short term hit in order to essentially invent our own industry to dominate. Especially when that industry is an excuse to manufacture cool giant robots.

As far as "cutting edge military tech" I'm pretty sure nothing required for mechs is on the SA's exclusivity list.
 
Look if we sell a movie studio a mech to film a live action version of Mobile fighter G Gundam, that mech is in circulation. It's not in some mysterious third state between unsold and in circulation. Our stuff is in circulation, why you object to that terminology is not something I understand, the minute I used it however you started comparing me to Obadiah stane. So either explain or stop it, because you're being a jerk.

Sure we can avoid selling it directly to pirates and such, but that doesn't mean our stuff stops being in circulation.

As far as using them in films, ummm you have addressed 0 points. We know that using the actual mechs isn't the most efficient or cost effective way to tell the story, but even now irl film studios don't always, or even often take the most efficient routes. Stop animation is itself an exercise in massive inefficiency in service to art and spectacle. The use of real warplanes in top gun is also far from efficient or necessary, but it still happens. So there's no reason we couldn't use the real mechs to make movies and shows with, sure it's not efficient, but that's not an issue films care about now, why would they care about that in mass effect revy future? Hell we could just start a studio to do it ourselves if nobody is biting.

Renting or buying doesn't matter for our purposes, not for the film studios anyway.

The league matches it matters a bit more.

Mechs being out and about doing mech things, and being seen doing mech things, is a benefit because people like mechs. If we can make them work in industries besides the military people will buy mechs, innovate with them, expand on them, and increase the demand for mechs and mech accessories. Even if we never make them a major military thing, we can make them important in other places. That way we get to have cool mechs all over the place, doing cool mech things, and make it self sustaining so that we'll have consistent demand. This means we get paid to produce mechs, it probably wouldn't be a net profit for a long while, but we can eat the short term hit in order to essentially invent our own industry to dominate. Especially when that industry is an excuse to manufacture cool giant robots.

As far as "cutting edge military tech" I'm pretty sure nothing required for mechs is on the SA's exclusivity list.

Nobody is objecting to the terminology. I just don't fucking see the benefit.

Stop animation is a tiny fraction of all animation which is a small fraction of all movies. And as I pointed out, Kubo was actually not a high budget compared to other major cinema releases. I can't even find numbers to compare what kind of fraction we're talking about, but you realise this comparison implicitly concedes, that for all live action mech movies being produced in the galaxy, only a small fraction would be interested in using inefficient mechs rather than CGI. And Live action mech movies are not exactly a mainstream genre. We're talking about a % of a % of the galactic market. Hardly mainstreaming.

The use of warplanes is always subsidised by the US military making it actually a very cheap way of doing it because the studio doesn't pay for it. The incentives don't make sense for PI to step in and do this we're taking a financial loss to advertise a product we're going to sell at a loss. And its not like we've ever had a hard time reaching our production cap for sales or that people who buy million credit mech suits get their advertising via the cinema.

Nobody is going to compete with PI's innovations, the quest has been going on for 5 ingame years and other competitors are decades behind us.
Nobody is going to compete with PI if we are selling these at an unprofitable rate because they'd rather find ways to compete that are profitable, and if the mad scientist Revy can't make a cost effective mech then that signals to everyone else that they won't either. We do not care about money, but you're no longer talking about only us.

If you think mechs will ever be everyday things, you are actually disconnected from reality.
taller mechs mean they can build bigger buildings
Cranes exist my dude. Nobody tried to build the Burj Khalifa but failed half way because they don't have a 10 meter exoskeleton.

Look, just run back to Slamu's plan, mech sports all teams sponsored and run by PI, because I've already conceded that I can't and won't argue with that as a concept, there are too many unknowns, the scope is small enough that we might actually be able to single handedly bank roll it even at a loss and it seems reasonably IC as vanity projects go. In terms of "I wana do mechs because I like them" its understandable and the sports plan doesn't really require 15M mechs so it isn't conflicting with more important things for research priority.
However if you want Mechs to be an every day object its not enough to just say "we don't care about money" because the galaxy is fucking huge and PI is a small fraction of its economy and we can't subsidise hundreds of millions of unprofitable mech suits across all known space. The Reapers are coming we have more important shit to do than this vanity project. Everyone else does care. The problems with mech are fundamental to the design being overly complicated, inefficient and high maintenance, and there is no way of getting around those.

E: Oh and as for what cutting edge tech it uses. Its going to be arc reactor powered, use PI software, the motors and mechanisms are likely to be derived from our work on military grade legionaries. and so on. None of this may be on the list currently, but if we started to sell all the individual parts for a Legionary or Pydna the SA would take a pretty dim view of that being a breach of the exclusivity contract.
 
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A construction mech is a lot more than a crane, it can easily be 2-3 other things, without hotswapping arm attachments. They're going to be plenty profitable.

Well obviously we can't sell real mech as a genre, it's an effect approach, not a setting or a plot archetype. We have to make good films, or at least popular ones.

Essentially it's advertising, and a bit of testing data, not to mention the sheer geekery of building actual mecha to film a live action version of a mecha anime.

We start it before/in parallel with the sports set ups as a way to drum up interest/ to just do something ridiculous after this fucking war.

All of that tech is already being sold to the citadel though. The arc reactors are in just about everything, and we ship tons of just arc reactors out to the citadel markets all the time. The motors and mechanisms in our civilian products also benefit from the legionnaire tech, nor are we shy about selling software.
 
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I once had the fever dream of bringing a group of traveling Quarians to help design a Mothership. A ship that has all the functions of transporting a viable number of a species to a new home. The really scary part was giving the quarian travelers the resulting prototype for stress testing.
Why quarians? Because they have first hand experience about what goes into making a ship viable for long term inhabition.

On saner terms: What is the plan for the next Peak Species research? I am for Krogan!
 
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