HanEmpire
Delicious
They know what coals are, they just never go prospecting for the stuff because they have limitless supplies of charcoal.
Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Not limitless. But sufficient for their needs now and for the foreseeable future.
KlinkerKing
Man bites dog?
- Location
- The Lion's Den
Coal, even if you don't have steel, is going to be a natural source of heat. Coal is just more energy dense than wood or charcoal, so it's easier to transport. In fact, Turkey still gives free coal to the rural poor, whi can't afford to heat their homes otherwise.
It's why steel is such a natural development from iron in the first place: furnaces need fuel, and coal just happens to be the most dense fuel you can easily handle.
It's why steel is such a natural development from iron in the first place: furnaces need fuel, and coal just happens to be the most dense fuel you can easily handle.
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The Ymaryn have always had enough charcoal to make steel due to the sacred forest
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Is it good for trade? Like... didn't we just have charcoal-pitch advancement, making this even more irrelevant to us?
I've got nothing except that we could maybe sell it outside our borders cheaper then our neighbors could mine it themselves. I have no idea if this has potential or if we could even contain the negative effects enough to be at all profitable without damaging the environment.
I've got nothing except that we could maybe sell it outside our borders cheaper then our neighbors could mine it themselves. I have no idea if this has potential or if we could even contain the negative effects enough to be at all profitable without damaging the environment.
Warmach1ne32
Machine of War and Quests
- Location
- Indonesia
I think he meant Coal is a much stronger source of heat than Charcoal.
@Aranfan does Valleyhome have a high DC in their survey? Cause we got a literal gold mine from a 68 while a 100+ got use 'useless' coal. If we got lower than 100 do we get nothing?
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Surveys roll to see if you find anything, then roll on a lookup table for what you find.
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Aurora, CO
- Pronouns
- Any/All
IIRC coal actually burns colder and is less energy dense than charcoal? That maybe isn't true for the Ymaryn's currently level of charcoal manufacturing, though, and a fuel that burns colder is still valuable.
Warmach1ne32
Machine of War and Quests
- Location
- Indonesia
What are some of the stuff we could have found? I'm guessing ancient artifacts are also a stuff that could have been found?
KlinkerKing
Man bites dog?
- Location
- The Lion's Den
Other way around, chief. Well, more specifically: yes but no. Anthracite coal has a higher energy density, but bituminous coal has a lower one. However, coal tends to burn hotter and cleaner than charcoal, and tends to be easier to regulate to optimal temperature than charcoal.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
But yeah, I opted to go this route because I do not remember a single mention of coal being used to fuel anything in Paths. And it should have been if it came up at all, considering how close we came to overharvesting our forests for charcoal a couple of times. I also did some research, and it turns out that the first major uses for coal cropped up only after China ran out of trees to fuel their massive ironworks.
The Melkut Ymaryn never ran out of trees.
So they have been using Charcoal for all their heating needs since time immemorial, and it works well for them. So long as they have sufficient charcoal to meet their needs, they won't touch coal. And they'll have plenty of charcoal for their needs for quite a while yet.
As far as steel goes... the Ymaryn are actually really good with steel. They are able to semi-reliably produce carbon nanotube steel based on the carbon structures in wood charcoal, although it's very expensive since it needs specific types of charcoal at each stage of the smelting and forging process, and its also very finicky. Only the greatest smiths of each generation are able to produce it with anything like reliability.
The Melkut Ymaryn never ran out of trees.
So they have been using Charcoal for all their heating needs since time immemorial, and it works well for them. So long as they have sufficient charcoal to meet their needs, they won't touch coal. And they'll have plenty of charcoal for their needs for quite a while yet.
As far as steel goes... the Ymaryn are actually really good with steel. They are able to semi-reliably produce carbon nanotube steel based on the carbon structures in wood charcoal, although it's very expensive since it needs specific types of charcoal at each stage of the smelting and forging process, and its also very finicky. Only the greatest smiths of each generation are able to produce it with anything like reliability.
- Location
- Huezil
Well charcoal has that advantage over coal due to not having impurities, and the wood ash can be used as flux too, so steel is a little easier for the Ymarin.
Great news. It was a piece of cake, and the Hellas are sent home packing with tales of fury from the men and women of the Ymaryn.
Not so great news: We need a real navy and will need to send a levy to crush Western Wall and Tinshore.
I heard intrigue options are coming. We need them to divide and conquer Tinshore.
An authority point is freed! I was disappointed to learn that there's no income from The Hills.
I was expecting more, actually. Still, another authority point is returned for our use.
Intriguing and troubling. There are probably spiders to be found. My guess is corruption. Still, another authority point returned.
Halfway point, no failure thus far.
Scientific revolution, here we come! An influence point is returned. Also, I am surprised, since I wasn't able to guess what we will discover.
So we knew about coal for a long time. Don't have to resort to coal mining and usage just yet.
A very nice surprise. Now that we have Hathattya, we can survey the volcanic province to our heart desire.
Interesting. I am guessing Abyss is Ethiopia. I have a mixed feeling about this. I don't want the Khemetri to succeed, and yet at the same time, the Khemetri are our tentative ally.
Budget:
1+ Influence from winning the war.
1+ Authority returned from the Hill, giving us much needed income.
1+ Authority returned from restoring control over Hathytta.
1+ Authority returned from Khem diplomacy.
1+ Influence returned from Mystic discovery.
2+ Influence returned from Homevalley survey.
2+ Influence returned from MoS survey.
3 Authority, 6 influences.
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We also have almost fixed our budget:
Treasury Status: 4/10
Income: -.4
So we can afford to do 3 expensive things in the next two years and only need 0.4 income to secure our treasury in the long term.
As much as i like to do the math reform i think we should spend it on ships and a pair of levies.
Treasury Status: 4/10
Income: -.4
So we can afford to do 3 expensive things in the next two years and only need 0.4 income to secure our treasury in the long term.
As much as i like to do the math reform i think we should spend it on ships and a pair of levies.
Earlier on Discord, Aranfan said we need average size naval strength in order to fulfill our piracy patrol to the Khem, which will costs 2 treasury, We also need 2 more treasury in reserve for city levy.
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Warmach1ne32
Machine of War and Quests
- Location
- Indonesia
Yeah, looks like a waste of a crit then 😢
What are the other stuff that we would have found had we got a different roll?
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Also you know there is going to be an action to sort out the mines. Restoring those to taxable is going to at least be profitable if not increase our income.
I almost think West Wall next. We can almost afford levi on mass for a bit. I wonder if we can afford to hire Khem merchant shipping to solve our supply line problems?
I almost think West Wall next. We can almost afford levi on mass for a bit. I wonder if we can afford to hire Khem merchant shipping to solve our supply line problems?
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No, we cannot afford to do that much. We need to stockpile Treasury for the Mass Levy, especially since we have limited ways to acquire it and currently only have a regular drain on it. And we need the Mass Levy to take Thunder Plateau back, which we need to afford a death spiral. We can afford to do more warships to secure our supply lines, but we need to do diplo with Tinshore next turn whilst conserving the rest of our Treasury for future war efforts against either the Black Sheep, Tinshore and Western Wall.
Edit: Until we can secure a stable source of positive income, we still need to be careful about taking Expensive actions and cannot just spend our Treasury because we technically can because in practice, we cannot afford it.
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Good news! There are potential tax income from the mines in Hathattya. Bad news, there probably are spiders...involved. On the other hand, we have a rich province to survey for further resources, which is a crapshoot but I am more confident with Hat-chan.
Other than that, we need to keep developing our relationship with the Khemetri, who may have needs for our guns, and to continue our mission in the Monsoon ocean to find additional trading partners or trade deals.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
And just as we've given them King of the Hill, too! I wonder if that'll persuade them to keep fighting beyond the point they really should?
Khem's Godking theocracy may actually make losing King of the Hill more painful than just no longer having the bonuses - did we slip them a poison pill accidentally?
Maybe we could extract good deals selling them our cannons?
Well, it's true about the energy density, but without specific technologies to properly exploit coal (like coking) coal is worse for metalworking. At the technology the People currently have, I'll bet that charcoal really is better. From what I understand, to fuel a forge, charcoal is still the best even today.
On a different topic, since the Salt Sea is closer in this quest, maybe a cost effective way to retake the Thunder Plateau would be to build navies on the Salt/Caspian and the *Persian Gulf (Thunder Gulf? Txolla Gulf?) so that we can dominate the coasts in time of war. While the mountainous interior will be a tough nut to crack for the People still, if we can quickly conquer the rich coastal zones, I'll bet the reconquest would be much easier.
Of course, since even average naval strength takes 2 treasury steps to accomplish, building two navies like this could slow down the start of the reconquest too much as well.
fasquardon
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In regards to next turn, I am unsure of what we should do without knowing what actions will be available. We will need to make a demand to Tinshore for the sake of revanchism and the fact that we need to begin retaking our old provinces for their income. Meanwhile we should begin constructing more warships to secure our supply lines on the Yllython. Beyond that, we won't have enough actions still there from last turn to have an idea of what we should do. With 3 Authority and 6 Influence, we will have a lot to work with so I'm thinking we could try more surveys, but only if we don't get better opportuties for income and profits in the next turn's action. I also believe that Aranfan will start to give us Intrigue options and if they do, we will need to look over those before making any plans.
Ultimately, I want to try and become Income positive by 1600 so we can get a steady steam of income to our Treasury, both to keep economic woes at bay and to stockpile funds for the Mass Levy. My other priority will be continuing to restore the Old Ymaryn Empire as we cannot afford not to do that as revanchism would put us down a death spiral.
Ultimately, I want to try and become Income positive by 1600 so we can get a steady steam of income to our Treasury, both to keep economic woes at bay and to stockpile funds for the Mass Levy. My other priority will be continuing to restore the Old Ymaryn Empire as we cannot afford not to do that as revanchism would put us down a death spiral.
KlinkerKing
Man bites dog?
- Location
- The Lion's Den
Okay, so to break this down. Yes, to the first part to some extent. We don't have the technology to make coal super duper good, but it's still more convenient because it keeps the temperature at a better level with less effort than charcoal. As for modern day use: charcoal, coal and propane are the modern fuels, and they each have their ups and downs.