Besides, as we were starving, Amber Road was well enough to try to contact us, and WW lied to them saying we died. This led to the Amber Road being nearly overrun by their own barbarians without our weapons and steel and us literally nearly starving and collapsing.
@Aranfan between this, assassinating the previous heir, and attempting to assassinate the king, I'd imagine they're pretty unpopular among the Ymaryn. Should we really be losing Influence for dicking over Western Wall by relocating their settlers?
 
I have been having a think about our crossbows, and I have come to the conclusion that we may actually have significantly better crossbows than existed in the medieval or even renaissance period.

One thing to note is that crossbows of this period had very short draw lengths. This was primarily because people of these periods did not have good quality control over their metal. This meant that crossbow designs are made to avoid actually bending the limbs of the crossbow very much because there was no way to be sure the metal wouldn't shatter.

This lead to a negative cycle where crossbow draw weights had to be astronomical to have sufficient power to be useful. You got insanity like crossbows with a 4 inch draw length and a 1800lb draw weight.

The thing is, we don't have that problem. Ymar has had the world's best iron manufacturing since basically the invention of iron. We produce quality steel. We trust our steel quality control significantly.

So I find it quite likely that Ymar is using something pretty close to spring steel in our crossbow limbs. This means that we are likely building crossbows with something far closer to an 18" draw. Because the equation for bolt energy is 1/2*Draw weight*Draw length this means our crossbows are likely something like 4 times more powerful than a crossbow made elsewhere. Now, we very likely step back the absurd draw weight to something more reasonable to load with an oversized goat's leg, so we are talking 900lb draw weight over 18" draw lengths, but the math still works out to have crossbows with twice the power of a medieval war crossbow.

That equates to both higher penetration as well as longer range. The ability to have more reasonable draw weights means we can use faster and cheaper spanning tools rather than needing to rely on winch systems. This offsets the cost of using quality steel in the crossbow arms.

Quality steel is, after all, relatively cheap in Ymar.

----

Though this does not alleviate my confusion as to why we have not switched from crossbows to culverins. Culverins are more powerful because they are not constrained by the mechanical limits of metal limbs and can thus achieve impossible projectile velocities with massive projectiles compared to a crossbow. They are fear easier to train someone on. They are faster to fire, even muzzle loading. They are cheaper.

And they hit a LOT harder, to the point that armor becomes meaningless fairly rapidly.

A lack of accuracy isn't an issue in volley fire.

I accept that we have not adopted them, but the only reason we have not I can come up with is traditionalism.

Mostly agree, but early culverins, all culverins actually, are horribly inaccurate.
While you are correct that it does hardly matter in volley fire, not all warfare is volley fire, and if smaller troops are acting than accuracy means a whole lot.

Besides, hand culverins are nearly unusable during rain and especially if you are correct regarding our crossbows, and I believe you are, than there was even less incentives to change over from crossbows than in otl.
This said, when we get research actions we should look into it.
 
Mostly agree, but early culverins, all culverins actually, are horribly inaccurate.
While you are correct that it does hardly matter in volley fire, not all warfare is volley fire, and if smaller troops are acting than accuracy means a whole lot.

Besides, hand culverins are nearly unusable during rain and especially if you are correct regarding our crossbows, and I believe you are, than there was even less incentives to change over from crossbows than in otl.
This said, when we get research actions we should look into it.
Yes, but historically black powder weapons replaced crossbow LONG before the issues of accuracy and rain got solved. The advantage of stopping power, cost, and ease of training was too much.
 
They were used alongside bows for centuries too. We're at 13th century gun tech and longbows were still being used for war in Elizabethan times - as we know from after action reports complaining about the lack of stopping power compared to guns!

One thing about low accuracy and having to carry a burning slow match is they're shit hunting weapons. Which means that there isn't a pool of proficient civilian users to recruit from - if we wanted them in the levies we'd want to issue them to city militias and mandate practice. That can be done but will probably be or be part of a player level action.
 
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They were used alongside bows for centuries too.

One thing about low accuracy and having to carry a burning slow match is they're shit hunting weapons. Which means that there isn't a pool of proficient civilian users to recruit from - if we wanted them in the levies we'd want to issue them to city militias and mandate practice. That can be done but will probably be or be part of a player level action.
Civilians are not using crossbows ether. They are too expensive for that to be something a random hunter would use. If you are in the employ of a noble, sure. He likely bought you a crossbow so you could hunt for his sport better. If you are out hunting for meat, no.

The advantage of a bow is that bows are dead cheap. The arrows frequently cost more than the bow itself, and if you are hunting for meat you can get away with some pretty cheap arrows as deer are not known to wear armor.

And this is a place that inaccuracy actually renders skill less relevant than drill. Aiming is impractical with a weapon that is inaccurate. You drill to follow instructions. The guy shooting a culverin isn't going to aim. He's going to set his weapon at the elevation and load specified by his sergeant. His sergeant has the task of estimating the distance to the target and elevation change, and deciding on what angle the guns should fire at to hit that area. It's why it was so damn easy to train whole batches of troops. They just need to learn how to follow orders, not make judgement calls themselves.
 
Yes, but historically black powder weapons replaced crossbow LONG before the issues of accuracy and rain got solved. The advantage of stopping power, cost, and ease of training was too much.
Civilians are not using crossbows ether. They are too expensive for that to be something a random hunter would use. If you are in the employ of a noble, sure. He likely bought you a crossbow so you could hunt for his sport better. If you are out hunting for meat, no.

The advantage of a bow is that bows are dead cheap. The arrows frequently cost more than the bow itself, and if you are hunting for meat you can get away with some pretty cheap arrows as deer are not known to wear armor.

And this is a place that inaccuracy actually renders skill less relevant than drill. Aiming is impractical with a weapon that is inaccurate. You drill to follow instructions. The guy shooting a culverin isn't going to aim. He's going to set his weapon at the elevation and load specified by his sergeant. His sergeant has the task of estimating the distance to the target and elevation change, and deciding on what angle the guns should fire at to hit that area. It's why it was so damn easy to train whole batches of troops. They just need to learn how to follow orders, not make judgement calls themselves.

I think you have answered part of it yourself earlier - we have far better, cheaper and more accessible crossbows than anyone ever had in otl. I can actually imagine our civilians often using crossbows instead of bows for hunting, especially since we do have levies and thus wide spread training with them and armories, armories with hundreds of thousands of crossbows, armories that have to be renewed every century or so, and old crossbows are probably sold, with the population able to buy them.
 
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I think you have answered part of it yourself earlier - we have far better, cheaper and more accessible crossbows than anyone ever had in otl. I can actually imagine our civilians often using crossbows instead of bows for hunting, especially since we do have levies and thus wide spread training with them and armories, armories with hundreds of thousands of crossbows, armories that has to be renewed every century or so, and old crossbows are probably sold, with the population able to buy them.
And we have widespread regulated hunting. One of the tasks of the nobility is to regulate hunting within an area to control animal populations as specified by the priests. This requires hunting at far higher levels than noble sport. We have the opposite of nobles guarding private hunting grounds for themselves. We likely do have commoners hunting for meat using refurbished crossbows.

I hadn't considered that.

EDIT - I still think we would get significant benefit from switching to a black powder missile line, but I can see why we have not.
 
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Generating Update, please wait warmly.
Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on May 6, 2021 at 10:14 AM, finished with 216 posts and 49 votes.
 
I have been having a think about our crossbows, and I have come to the conclusion that we may actually have significantly better crossbows than existed in the medieval or even renaissance period.

[Draw length superiority information.]

To illustrate your point with how the Ymaryn are akin to China again, China at this time IRL (Warring States period) also used mass-infantry with long polearms and crossbows. The draw weights of these infantry crossbows did not come anywhere near that of Medieval European crossbows, but their draw lengths were almost comparable to bows. The net result is that Chinese military crossbows of the Warring States to Han Dynasty era had comparable or superior energy to European crossbows. In particular, the standard draw weight was ~360lbs, over a 24-inch draw length, spanned by any peasant by a full-body rowing motion.

HackneyedScribe has more information here: Han Dynasty Crossbow III

Your suggestion that the Ymaryn infantry combine the best of both worlds - high draw length AND high draw weight, definitely results in some very monstrous crossbows available in the hands of Ymaryn soldiers. However, keep in mind the considerable number of drawbacks as a result.

Firstly, crossbows are still ultimately drawn with muscles. You put in more energy; you're going to be tired more quickly.

Second, spanning devices tend to be extremely arm-loaded, so the load is primarily the arm, rather than full-body like with the Chinese, and because you're drawing it for longer, it's going to take a really, really long time to reload. Even with Chinese crossbows, which can be drawn in one fluid motion, they utilized the countermarch to counteract its lack of speed. This is counteracted by the average Ymaryn person being considerably healthier and stronger, perhaps.

Third, and most important to consider: Have you seen how stupidly wide the arms are with Chinese crossbows??? It looks like this: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OZXRzvx4KYw/TkwngtdmWvI/AAAAAAAAAFw/WY5aEayEUW8/s400/Slide19.jpg

With that, how can you fire it through an arrow slit with any ease?

European crossbows were sturdy, reliable tools of urban or siege defense which could be easily maneuvered around compared to Chinese crossbows, which were battlefield weapons. The long limbs have significant ergonomic drawbacks, discouraging tightly packed formations or defenses using arrow slits, for example. If Ymaryn crossbows were of similar design, but with steel instead, they're going to have to consider a similar issue.

Another consideration, however, when it comes to crossbows, is that higher draw weights results in higher forces which require heavier limbs, thicker ropes, and thicker projectiles to survive. All this conspires to reduce the velocity, and thus penetration power, of the crossbow. For example, a modern high draw-length low draw-weight crossbow of theoretically comparable energy to a medieval 960lbs crossbow is seen in the video below:



The modern one, with a modern arrow, penetrates considerably deeper. Same energy, considerably faster arrow, onto a smaller area.
 
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29 Aryl Cwymyp (1622 Andyidh Dyadorn)
29 Aryl Cwymyp (1622 Andyidh Dyadorn)

Western Wall wants to keep their ill gotten gains? To keep the lands they have stolen? Well they shouldn't have rebelled then. They shall be rewarded as a traitor deserves. They shall be stripped of what they hold most dear, the land they have cared for, and it shall stand for the next thousand years as a warning to all who would betray their rightful lords.

[X] Relocate them to still empty farms in Stallion Province. (Rus pleased, former settlers angry, -1 Influence)
[X] Cut them loose. (+.5 Income from integration, -5 Prestige, Western Wall angry in future, Rus pleased)

Amber Road has approached the Melek. They desire to hire the Iron Flower Banner Company for their war with Gulryv.

[] Deny (-3 Opinion)
[] Allow (+1 Treasury in 5 turns)
[] The Melek will pay for it.

KMT wants to buy gunpowder. They want a lot of gunpowder. They also want steel and iron shovels, with metal hafts. Various other metal tools. They want as much gunpowder and as many tools as you are willing to sell. They are planning something big.

[] No (-1 Opinion)
[] A reasonable amount (+.5 Treasury)
[] A large amount (+1 Treasury)
[] An unreasonable amount (+2 Treasury)


Total Dice: 5 Influence, 2 Authority
Committed: 4 Influence, 2 Authority
Available Dice: 1 Influence, 0 Authority

The Peacocks want to found a Banner Company within the next two years. +1 Influence if this happens, -1 Influence if not.

Martial:

War Mission: Send the army to fight enemies. Can only be taken once per turn for any given enemy. (95%. 1 Year. Success and length of campaign rolled separately. Possible influence gains or losses depending on the result.)
-Write in Targets, one per influence

[] City Levy: Gather up some of the excess population in the cities and throw them at an enemy. Can only be taken once per turn for any given enemy. (90%. 1 Year. Expensive. Success and length of campaign rolled separately. Possible influence gains or losses depending on the result.)
-Write in Targets, one per influence

[] Activate The Mass Levy!: Arm and mobilize up to a million soldiers. The earth quakes at your approach. None can stand against the might of The People. (85%. 1 year. Success and length of campaign rolled separately. Possible influence gains or losses depending on result. Unsustainably expensive)
-Write in Targets, may choose as many as you like

Unavailable while the Mass Levy is active

[] Construct Warships, Redshore: With unified control of the Yllython shattered, there are going to be pirates and rebels in the sea closest to the core. The people need to build warships to suppress pirates and fight enemies. (70%. 2 years. +Warships. Expensive)

[] Construct Warships, New Blackmouth: The shipyards of New Blackmouth are once more ready and operational. (70%. 2 years. +Warships. Expensive)

[] Construct Warships, Trelli: You once more have Trelli. Its dockyards and shipyards are robust and capable. With those facilities you can build even more warships. (70%. 2 years. +Warships. Expensive)

[] Construct Warships, Salt Sea: You now share a sea with the Black Sheep. They will surely send foes by sea as well as land if they wish to achieve their ambition of displacing you. (70%. 2 years. +Warships. Expensive)

[] Construct Warships, Harmurri Gulf: Do you really need warships on the Monsoon Sea? The trade there is quite civilized with much less piracy than on the Saffron Sea. (70%. 2 years. +Warships. Expensive)

[] Found Banner Company: The storied mercenary companies of the Melkut Ymaryn were ancient institutions, that played important roles in both martial and diplomatic matters. Having a banner company at your beck and call, able to be loaned out to allies or against enemies, it is a powerful tool. An expensive one though. (100%. 3 Years. Expensive, -.5 Income, potentially profitable, may be taken more than once)



Diplomacy:

[] Seek Loan: You are strapped for cash. Other states have money that you could use. Ask them if they would be willing to float a loan. (85%, +1 Treasury Status, -.1 Income, -1 Prestige)
-Write in who to seek loan from, requires at least 5/10 opinion, may be taken more than once

Repay Loan: You now have the money you need to repay a loan, do so. (100%, 1 Year, -1 Treasury, +.1 Income, unlikely +Prestige, loans expire on their own after 100 years)

[] Diplomatic Contact, Highlanders: What have the Highlanders gotten up to in these last thousand years? Do you even care so long as they stay in their hills? (???% 1 Year. Possible -Influence)

[] Diplomatic Contact, Pulska: Who are the Pules and what do they want? (???%. 1 Year.)

[] Sell Weapons: It turns out an easy way to make a lot of money quickly is to sell weapons to countries who are at, or planing to go to, war. (Variable Success, 1 year, Profitable, may be taken multiple times with different targets who must be either a major power or the minors of a region)
-write in target

[] Negotiate Trade Deal: In the cutthroat world of commerce it is said that for one to benefit another must lose. Even so, it might be worthwhile to formalize trade deals with various powers. (85%. 1 Year. +.1 Income and -1 Opinion if Prestige > Target or -.1 Income and +1 Opinion if Prestige < Target, may pay 1 prestige to give a favorable deal to a less prestigious state, may be taken multiple times with different targets, possible opinion effects on third parties)
-Write in target

[] Build Ties: Common Ground can be found anywhere, since people are always people. Simply by dealing forthrightly with people, and addressing their concerns in an honest manner or telling them why you can't, you can improve their opinion of you. (10%, 4 years, +1 Opinion)

[] Deepen Alliance: Having built the foundations of a strong relationship with another polity, see about deepening the ties that bind you. (80%. 2 Years. +1 Alliance Level, -Opinion = new Alliance Level, cannot be used if this would take their opinion below 5)
-Write in Target

Offer Loan: The Melkut Ymaryn is rich beyond measure, but other polities need money too. You could offer to lend them cash when they need it. (Narrative%, 1 year, -1 Treasury, unlikely +Opinion)

[] Forgive Loan: Other people owe you money, but it's not like you need the cash. Their gratitude at being let off the hook may be more valuable than mere silver. (100%, 1 Year, -.1 Income, +Opinion, Possible ± Prestige, Narrative effects)

Unavailable while Mass Levy is Active



Admin:

Demobilize: The Mass Levy has been active long enough. Demobilize them and give the veterans the training they need to reintegrate into civilian society. (60%, 2 years, .5 per year) In Progress

[] Retraining, Guilds: It is traditional that when the Mass Levy ends, the Stylus pays for the apprenticeships of any soldier who desires to learn a gainful trade. (75%, 1 Year, -1 Income until income has iterated 3 times, no bored veterans without prospects)

[] Math Reform: The Kus have made advances in the notation of mathematics beyond the wildest dreams of the people. Not to mention the substance of math. "Zero"… it will change everything once people get a handle on it. If you were to institute reforms that changed the Melkut Ymaryn to the superior Kus system of math, then there would be immense savings simply from more precise ability to keep track of things. Of course, until the bureaucracy got a hang of the new numbers, it would be pure chaos. (45%. 5 Years. Extremely Expensive, -1 Authority immediately, +1 Authority when completed, +2 Income)

[] Survey Hathytta Province: Hathytta has long been the center of your mining industries. Many enterprising citizens will even try to survey and find valuable resources on their own initiative. Still, the land is rich and another survey can do no harm. (???%. 1 Year. Resources?)
-On cool-down until turn 31

[] Survey Txolla Province: Txolla has been surveyed many times, but technology and the skill of surveyors is always improving. It might be possible to find something of use on the floodplains. (???%. 1 Year. Resources?)

[] Survey Tinshore Province: Tinshore has been surveyed many times, but technology and the skill of surveyors is always improving. It might be possible to find something of use there. (???%. 1 Year. Resources?)

[] Survey Core: The Core has been surveyed many times, but technology and the skill of surveyors is always improving. It might be possible to find something of use there. (???%. 1 Year. Resources?)

[] Survey Stallion Province: Stallion Province has been surveyed many times, but technology and the skill of surveyors is always improving. It might be possible to find something of use there. (???%. 1 Year. Resources?)

[] Survey Memory of Spirits Province: Memory of Spirits has been surveyed many times, but technology and the skill of surveyors is always improving. It might be possible to find something of use there. (???%. 1 Year. Resources?)

[] Survey Greenshore Province: Greenshore Province has been surveyed many times, but technology and the skill of surveyors is always improving. It might be possible to find something of use there. (???%. 1 Year. Resources?)

[] Survey Thunder Plateau Province: The Thunder Mountains have been surveyed many times, but a lot of information about their resource deposits would have been lost in the chaos of the Black Sheep takeover during the Collapse. Additionally, technology and the skill of surveyors is always improving. (???%. 1 Year. Resources?)
-on cooldown until turn 37

[] Develop Wagon Ways, Stonepen: Stonepen was always the smallest of your great cities, as it did not have an easily navigable waterway to help feed it. With wagonways, such as you have in mines and in the great cities of Redshore and Trelli, it would be possible to roughly quadruple the ammount of goods shipped to and from Stonepen. (55%. 4 years. Very Expensive, +.1 Income, +15% on Wagonways Megaprojects)

[] Support Province: Give one of the provinces considerable sums of money to assist in their current infrastructural projects. (85%, 1 Year, Expensive, +Province Loyalty)
-Write in which province

Train Thunder Plateau Administrators, Elective: Long ago, in the oldest laws, nobles were elected and gentry appointed by the nobles. Even now, the legitimization ceremonies of the nobility involve leaders of the places they administer giving consent to their authority. The families with the greatest aptitude naturally rose to the top and their ability recognized to the point where the elections eventually became a formality that was done away with by the Dragon King. With the former nobility of Thunder Plateau… erased it may be wise to implement the system of the Ancients, at least until the best families have revealed themselves. (70%, Length of Thunder Plateau Campaign+2 years, possible -1 Influence, ability to reestablish administrative control of Thunder Plateau. Mutually exclusive with Appointive) In Progress


Intrigue:

[] Establish Spy Network: Establish a spy network in one of the places you have diplomatic contact with. (33%. 3 Years. Fails entirely if it fails once. Unlocks options. May be taken multiple times, but only with different targets.)
-Write in Target

[] Determine Internal Factions: Receive a dossier on the relevant internal factions of a polity you have diplomatic relations with. This will allow you to support or oppose their internal factions to be more favorable to your interests.
-[] Write in a polity you have diplomatic relations with, may be taken more then once with different targets for each time the action is taken.

[] Assassinate Faction Leaders: Assassinate the leaders of political factions that have been identified in foreign polities.

[] Fund Faction: Fund a faction in a foreign polity that has been identified.


Mysticism:

Touch The Cow, Do It Now, Thunder Plateau: The Sacred Warding in the Thunder Plateau collapsed when the Black Sheep took the Sacred Herds to add to their own. Although it would be made much more difficult by the nearly nonexistant bureaucracy, you could start rebuilding the Warding in that province. (30%, 5 years, ++Thunder Plateau Loyalty)

[] Touch The Cow, Do It Now, Western Wall: The Sacred Warding in Western Wall collapsed when the Divine Weapon took the sacred herds to add to his own and those of his followers. Restore it. (70%, 3 years, +Western Wall Loyalty)

[] Spreading the Warding, Abyss: The land of Abyss seems to be a robust and centralized state. It can be trusted with the knowledge of the Sacred Warding. Fighting the starpox is always desirable. (50%. 5 Years. +1 Abyss Opinion, possible +1 Abyss Opinion. Starpox fought.)

[] Spreading the Warding, Pamplona: Pamplona has established a robust enough bureaucracy that they can be trusted with the Sacred Warding. Give it to them to continue Bynwyn's work. (50%. 4 years. +Pamplona Opinion. Starpox fought.)

Calendar Reform: The calendar adopted from the Khemetri in the wake of the Godfist has the disadvantage that the year shifts, losing a day every four years. It had been planned that once a full rotation had been completed, there would be a reform that adds an extra day every four years. However, the Collapse serves as an important enough event that a new calendar that begins at the end of the collapse would be warranted and allow the reform to occur thousands of years ahead of schedule. (60%, 3 years, +1 Influence, better calendar) In progress


FREE ACTIONS:

[] Rent out Banner Companies: Uncommitted Banner Companies may be rented out for a five year term. (Profitable).

[] Deploy Banner Companies: Uncommitted Banner Companies may be deployed to a war zone of your choice.

[] Shift Banner Companies between fronts: Banner Companies may be shifted between active fronts and reserves as a free action while the Mass Levy is active.


MEGAPROJECTS:

Greenhouses: The Kings of old built a number of grand greenhouses to tend exotic plants from far away, so that they could be studied and for their own enjoyment. Most of these greenhouses were smashed by the Great Khan. Restore them. (Authority + 90%, 20 Years, -1 Treasury Status every four years)

Signal Towers: One of the issues that always plagued the governance of the Thunder Plateau was how far away and difficult to reach it was. It would be possible to set up signal relay towers along the way, which would greatly speed up messaging between the Plateau and the Core. It would take a lot of precision glasswork for the spyglasses, however. (Authority + 75%, 20 Years, -1 Treasury Status every four years)

Wagonways, Thunder Plateau: One of the issues that has always plagued the governance of the Thunder Plateau was how far away and difficult to reach it was. The transportation of goods especially suffered from this. However, it is possible to remedy this. There are rails used in the mines to ease transportation, and such things are also used in the Great Docks of Redshore. It would be possible to make rails of iron to vastly improve the carrying capacity of the horse wagons. However, this would require truly vast amounts of iron. (Authority + 50%, 25 years, -1 Treasury Status every four years, Expensive)

Reform THE LAW: It has been a very long time since the last time the Law was compiled and streamlined. There has been much accumulation of loopholes, drifts, and patching as the times changed. The current law is confusing and difficult and in many ways outdated. It should be simplified, updated for the current age, and recodified. (Authority + 90%, 20 Years, -1 Treasury Status every four years, +1 Authority on completion)



Personal Action (Choose One):
[] Work Overtime (+1 temp Influence, +Stress)
[] Relax with Family (-Stress)
[] Catch up on the latest plays and theological debates (-Stress)
[] Attend to a particular action personally. (Provides bonus to action)
-[] Write in Action


Voting is by plan.
 
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This whole discussion about Crossbows, of course, brings the question of just how common the Standard Ymaryn Military Surplus Crossbow is going to become in foreign nations, what with the demobilization and us probably decommissioning them by the hundreds of thousands right now, since I doubt we keep most of the mass levy crossbows, given how rare a full mobilization actually is. I'd say we sell at least half of them, and I doubt our civilian market absorbs all of that because the people who need them will mostly already have their own weapons.

So we can expect at least a few tens of thousands making some Syffron merchant very happy as they get resold to entire armies that-a-ways.

EDIT: Also, speaking of widespread gun adoption, what are the Khemetri up to?
 
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To illustrate your point with how the Ymaryn are akin to China again, China at this time IRL (Warring States period) also used mass-infantry with long polearms and crossbows. The draw weights of these infantry crossbows did not come anywhere near that of Medieval European crossbows, but their draw lengths were almost comparable to bows. The net result is that Chinese military crossbows of the Warring States to Han Dynasty era had comparable or superior energy to European crossbows. In particular, the standard draw weight was ~360lbs, over a 24-inch draw length, spanned by any peasant by a full-body rowing motion.

HackneyedScribe has more information here: Han Dynasty Crossbow III

Your suggestion that the Ymaryn infantry combine the best of both worlds - high draw length AND high draw weight, definitely results in some very monstrous crossbows available in the hands of Ymaryn soldiers. However, keep in mind the considerable number of drawbacks as a result.

Firstly, crossbows are still ultimately drawn with muscles. You put in more energy; you're going to be tired more quickly.

Second, spanning devices tend to be extremely arm-loaded, so the load is primarily the arm, rather than full-body like with the Chinese, and because you're drawing it for longer, it's going to take a really, really long time to reload. Even with Chinese crossbows, which can be drawn in one fluid motion, they utilized the countermarch to counteract its lack of speed. This is counteracted by the average Ymaryn person being considerably healthier and stronger, perhaps.

Third, and most important to consider: Have you seen how stupidly wide the arms are with Chinese crossbows??? It looks like this: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OZXRzvx4KYw/TkwngtdmWvI/AAAAAAAAAFw/WY5aEayEUW8/s400/Slide19.jpg

With that, how can you fire it through an arrow slit with any ease?

European crossbows were sturdy, reliable tools of urban or siege defense which could be easily maneuvered around compared to Chinese crossbows, which were battlefield weapons. The long limbs have significant ergonomic drawbacks, discouraging tightly packed formations or defenses using arrow slits, for example. If Ymaryn crossbows were of similar design, but with steel instead, they're going to have to consider a similar issue.

Another consideration, however, when it comes to crossbows, is that higher draw weights results in higher forces which require heavier limbs, thicker ropes, and thicker projectiles to survive. All this conspires to reduce the velocity, and thus penetration power, of the crossbow. For example, a modern high draw-length low draw-weight crossbow of theoretically comparable energy to a medieval 960lbs crossbow is seen in the video below:



The modern one, with a modern arrow, penetrates considerably deeper. Same energy, considerably faster arrow, onto a smaller area.

The modern crossbow is also using a offcenter cam compound system. You cannot understate how much that effects things.

The benifits of a modern offcenter cam system are numerous. The bow arms don't actually move during the power stroke, so they don't rob the system of momentum. The whole thing is about one third as wide as it should be if it was a simple bow system. The cam also flips at full draw, meaning that it drops to just a few pounds of draw weight.

But the biggest thing it does is frontload the draw. Normally the more you pull back a bow, the harder the string pulls. This isn't the case with offcenter cams. Offcenter cams pull the bow arms all the way in the moment the string is pulled, allowing the bow to apply it's full draw weight the entire length of the draw.

This means that the work done on the bolt isn't 1/2*draw weight*draw length. It's just draw weight*draw length. It just straight up doubles the power of your bow without making it higher draw weight or adding draw length.

It's why modern bows are drawn with a jerk motion. You don't have a smooth transition. To pull the string at all you must overcome the draw weight in full, but once you do so the draw continues until the cam lets off and the bow suddenly barely pulls.
 
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[] Authority: Build Ties: Common Ground can be found anywhere, since people are always people. Simply by dealing forthrightly with people, and addressing their concerns in an honest manner or telling them why you can't, you can improve their opinion of you. (10%, 4 years, +1 Opinion
-[] Rus

Is this an option? Maybe next turn, since we want to use authority for demobilisation this turn.
 
The Khem might be trying to get prestige whilst also undercutting us, their rival, by creating the Suez Canal.
 
This, on the other hand, is completely wrong.
We could easily afford bringing not!Ukraine into the fold, both manpower and resource wise, in fact cutting them loose costs us 1.5 income. We also plan to make a massive diplomatic outreach and integrate them anyway in the coming decade or two.
I wasn't referring to the financial economy of it in the slightest; of course we'd make a fortune off of owning the richest farmland in the world. I was referring to our action economy and the precedent set. We're busy with a lot of things right now and we don't have an abundance of actions to do those things.

If we take Ukraine then we'll have an action sink for decades. That's what we can't afford right now; it conflicts with the action sinks in TP and WW, plus our other actions on the diplomatic front and so on. Financially we have nigh-on unlimited wealth, but action-wise we have at most ten things, usually a lot less.
 
[] Allow (+1 Treasury in 5 turns)
[] The Melek will pay for it.
1 treasury? That doesn't seem worth it, that isn't much. But definately should let them do it.
KMT wants to buy gunpowder. They want a lot of gunpowder. They want as much gunpowder as you are willing to sell. What on earth do they need that much gunpowder for?

[] No (-1 Opinion)
[] A reasonable amount (+.5 Treasury)
[] A large amount (+1 Treasury)
[] An unreasonable amount (+2 Treasury)
OK, now I'm suspicious.
 
We should do it anyway. The Suez makes so much money that we likely come out ahead anyway. Direct sea access to Kus and Hung is just worth that much.

Besides, the world likely does what it did in our world and decide that it's too valuble to NOT be organized by treaty to allow fair use
 
We should do it anyway. The Suez makes so much money that we likely come out ahead anyway. Direct sea access to Kus and Hung is just worth that much.

Besides, the world likely does what it did in our world and decide that it's too valuble to NOT be organized by treaty to allow fair use
It really doesn't, not for us since we explicitly do not benefit because we profit more of existing routes going through our territory. Specially because it is almost certainly not the Suez, it's the Canal of the Pharaohs and that goes through the Nile, we'll never see a cent unless we conquer all of Khemetri.

I certainly hope they are just trying to adopt mass gunpowder weapons instead.
 
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We should do it anyway. The Suez makes so much money that we likely come out ahead anyway. Direct sea access to Kus and Hung is just worth that much.
We already have that thanks to our canals.
I believe the canal was to make the river connecting Valleyhome to the Yllthon Mor navigable along that entire length, yeah. I also think that one of the side effects of building the Dam was to link up our Valleyhome-Yllthon Mor river with the Not-Euphrates River equivalent we have which was also made navigable along it's entire length thanks to the Dam?

So basically you can take a loaded barge from the Yllthon Mor all the way down to the Monsoon Sea's Persian Gulf equivalent. Unless someone can point out where that understanding's wrong? Of course, the Not-Suez Canal would still be very important because it both allows actual ships to cross between the Saffron Sea and Monsoon Sea as well as being much easier to increase how much cargo can be transported along it than improving the river connections.
Correct. Which means that if the Suez actually starts to get built your traders are going to scream bloody murder.
 
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[] Authority: Build Ties: Common Ground can be found anywhere, since people are always people. Simply by dealing forthrightly with people, and addressing their concerns in an honest manner or telling them why you can't, you can improve their opinion of you. (10%, 4 years, +1 Opinion
-[] Rus

Is this an option? Maybe next turn, since we want to use authority for demobilisation this turn.

Yes.
 
We have a ton of loans, we should sell them a mountain of gunpowder and start paying them off.

I mean the Suez would lose us a lot of money, but we still produce basically all of the good steel in the world. It wouldn't be a crippling loss.
 
[] Diplomatic Contact, Rus Tribes: What have the Highlanders gotten up to in these last thousand years? Do you even care so long as they stay in their hills? (???% 1 Year. Possible -Influence)
[] Negotiate Trade Deal: In the cutthroat world of commerce it is said that for one to benefit another must lose. Even so, it might be worthwhile to formalize trade deals with various powers. (85%. 1 Year. +.1 Income and -1 Opinion if Prestige > Target or -.1 Income and +1 Opinion if Prestige < Target, may pay 1 prestige to give a favorable deal to a less prestigious state, may be taken multiple times with different targets, possible opinion effects on third parties)
-Rus, favorable deal to Rus
[] Build Ties: Common Ground can be found anywhere, since people are always people. Simply by dealing forthrightly with people, and addressing their concerns in an honest manner or telling them why you can't, you can improve their opinion of you. (10%, 4 years, +1 Opinion)
-Rus

Are any/all of these actions possible, @Aranfan?
 
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