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Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)

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Well, having thought about it more since last time we discussed what to do with the situation here, I think that the combination of
- cutting them loose
- leave settlers in place
is a recipe for an explosion of violence and ethnic conflicts on our northern border.
Let's not do that.
Does anyone disagree with me? I would like to hear your thoughts.
 
Aranfan said:
And those decisions were to be painstakingly careful with how, when, and how much they expanded.



It would depend on follow through later on. But yes.
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I sorta want to ask if we can hold a vote.

We do democracy. Relocate the farmers and then just straight up ask the Rus if they want to be a province with their own elected leaders answerable only to elected king and priests who ensure the land is used without damage.

If a majority say yes, great. If a majority say no we start diplomacy.
 
[] Integrate them as Rus Province with their own governor (+2 Income from integration, Western Wall ??? in future, Rus ???)
[] Relocate them to still empty farms in Stallion Province. (Rus pleased, former settlers angry, -1 Influence)

Constant wars between all the petty kingdoms trying to be big kingdoms, predation from the Pules, vulnerability to the next horde, crop failures risking famine without a large multi-climate state that can store and move food, landowning nobles, imposed religion subject to royal whim, no sacred warding... what are the advantages to a Rus peasant of being cut loose?
 
OliWhail said:
Actually, VERY important question @Aranfan:

Do we have any actions that would let us emphasize to the Rus that WW were NOT the true Ymaryn?

Because this makes it sound like the Rus don't distinguish, and thus the new religion might take "Ymar is evilbad, they abused us and killed our prophet" as a foundational belief.
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The Rus are able to distinguish. If you don't continue the policies of western wall then you won't be treated as an extension of them.

noliar said:
what are the advantages to a Rus peasant of being cut loose?
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Not being genocided by Settler Colonialism.
 
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HanChenYou said:
Well, having thought about it more since last time we discussed what to do with the situation here, I think that the combination of
- cutting them loose
- leave settlers in place
is a recipe for an explosion of violence and ethnic conflicts on our northern border.
Let's not do that.
Does anyone disagree with me? I would like to hear your thoughts.
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Leaving the settlers there would be a mistake and a guarantee for violence regardless of any other decision.
 
Rakuhn said:
I'm definitely voting for the relocation, although it is probably a death sentence for many of the relocated people (mass relocations don't have a great track record).
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Thankfully, the Ymaryn have good practice relocating thousands of people from the cities to the farms safely. (Early this quest)
I am pretty sure that this will not be a death sentence.
 
OliWhail said:
Actually, VERY important question @Aranfan:

Do we have any actions that would let us emphasize to the Rus that WW were NOT the true Ymaryn?

Because this makes it sound like the Rus don't distinguish, and thus the new religion might take "Ymar is evilbad, they abused us and killed our prophet" as a foundational belief.
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Considering the decision to cut them loose improve relations with them, I imagine doing that would help smooth things over?

Not sure it'll be as easy a road if we try to make them a province.
 
HanChenYou said:
Thankfully, the Ymaryn have good practice relocating thousands of people from the cities to the farms safely. (Early this quest)
I am pretty sure that this will not be a death sentence.
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We also have good productive farms and the people being relocated are already farmers.

This isn't throwing city folk into the siberian wilderness like Russia did. This is moving farmers from one region to another, more temperate region with existing infrastructure.
 
Fouredged Sword said:
We also have good productive farms and the people being relocated are already farmers.

This isn't throwing city folk into the siberian wilderness like Russia did. This is moving farmers from one region to another, more temperate region with existing infrastructure.
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Also, we as a society do food subsidies and agriculture organization.

This isn't one acre and a mule either, they're going to be settled on farms with organization to ensure they adapt to the new land and a whole bureaucracy that will ask for assistance if they need resources to smooth things over.
 
I certainly want to avoid legitimizing conquest, but also want to know what the Rus tribes in the area would want. As it is I favor cutting them loose and then setting up sacred warding for them. I don't want to completely abandon them to possible Pulskan conquest, but they should be allowed to make their own decisions after we let them go.
 
Fireiy said:
As it is I favor cutting them loose and then setting up sacred warding for them.
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That won't work. They require a sufficient level of centralisation and organisation to be able to maintain the Sacred Warding hence why we can only give it to certain states rather than anyone we want.

Actually, that is another reason for why I would prefer to make them a new province instead of cutting them loose as it means we can give the Rus the Sacred Warding.
 
Oshha said:
That won't work. They require a sufficient level of centralisation and organisation to be able to maintain the Sacred Warding hence why we can only give it to certain states rather than anyone we want.

Actually, that is another reason for why I would prefer to make them a new province instead of cutting them loose as it means we can give the Rus the Sacred Warding.
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I think it can work if we move our own priests in permanently, would this be possible @Aranfan? This actually would be a first step in a plan of diplomatic annexation.
 
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Fouredged Sword said:
We also have good productive farms and the people being relocated are already farmers.

This isn't throwing city folk into the siberian wilderness like Russia did. This is moving farmers from one region to another, more temperate region with existing infrastructure.
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Maybe, we took three actions to move people from the cities to the farms. The level of willingness on the people's part (expressed in the flavor text) seemed to decrease each time. Furthermore, "if there is one thing the Ymaryn are good at, it is teaching people how to farm," was mentioned there.

It seems to me that we may have relocated people who were not farmers before, along with those who were.
 
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Oshha said:
That won't work. They require a sufficient level of centralisation and organisation to be able to maintain the Sacred Warding hence why we can only give it to certain states rather than anyone we want.

Actually, that is another reason for why I would prefer to make them a new province instead of cutting them loose as it means we can give the Rus the Sacred Warding.
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That's a good point. I still don't want to legitimize the conquest though, it sets a very bad precedent.
 
HanChenYou said:
Maybe, we took three actions to move people from the cities to the farms. The level of willingness on the people's part (expressed in the flavor text) seemed to decrease each time. Furthermore, "if there is one thing the Ymaryn are good at, it is teaching people how to farm," was mentioned there.

It seems to me thatwe may have relocated people who were not farmers before, along with those who were.
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We were relocating from the cities.
Most of relocated people never had been farmers.
It was learn to farm, or starve.

Here we would be relocating farmers from one farm to another.
 
Aranfan said:
The options themselves say that the Rus will be most pleased with being cut loose and having the settlers removed.
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That is a very good point. Thank you for reiterating that.

I will vote that we cut them loose, and remove the settlers. They may get attacked by Pulska or other hostiles later, but we actually can help with that even if they are not a province.

Furthermore, if that is what they want (freedom, yet insecurity) I say we give it to them.
 
Yeah, having a big new province with incredible soil that'd get us closer to Amber Road would be great; but we have previously been very careful about expansionism, and they want to be free. Better to just release and focus on diplomancing them into joining. Far better.
 
tenchifew said:
We were relocating from the cities.
Most of relocated people never had been farmers.
It was learn to farm, or starve.

Here we would be relocating farmers from one farm to another.
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Good point.

That would make it significantly easier. What will make it even easier is that these farmers were still mostly "cultivating it to Ymaryn standards."
 
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