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Ymaryn Successor Quest (Paths of Civ AU)

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Nyvis said:
I wonder... We should probably try to shut down western wall quickly so we can go back to a one front war.

Hopefully western wall falls quickly enough and we can shuffle the fresh reserves east while replacing them with the most exhausted of the western fighters.
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Edit: This is more directed at the thread in general than at you specifically.
I doubt that Western Wall be a quick and easy victory even with the Mass Levy. They are basically smaller version of us and while the Mass Levy means that we'll beat them with time and money, it doesn't mean that we will be beating them quickly. After all, Western Wall still uses an organised, centralised government and economy like us even if it is degraded to an unknown degree and they are still capable of pulling off a Mass Levy before we get onto the fact that QM has stated that they have been hulking out since the start of the quest whilst we were still scrambling to survive.

While they aren't as dangerous as the Black Sheep, Western Wall is very far from being a pushover. We might get a swift victory over them, but I consider it unlikely enough that we shouldn't base our plans around it.
 
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Parzival95 said:
Does he have an estimate for Western Wall? If not, I'd consider that a bad sign.
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Depends on stuff he doesn't know. If they can pull out a city levy or something more, then they could probably field up to 300k men or even 400k if their farms and administrative apparatus are up to it.

Parzival95 said:
At minimum I think we should send the heavy calvary East, as that's why Dafydd wanted them in the first place.
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Dafydd wanted them to help secure Txolla. They will be most useful at western wall or in reserve. Thunder Mountains are hilly and mountainous terrain. Horse is still useful, but not as much as on flat land.
 
Oshha said:
Edit: This is more directed at the thread in general than at you specifically.
I doubt that Western Wall be a quick and easy victory even with the Mass Levy. They are basically smaller version of us and while the Mass Levy means that we'll beat them with time and money, it doesn't mean that we will be beating them quickly. After all, Western Wall still uses an organised, centralised government and economy like us even if it is degraded to an unknown degree and they are still capable of pulling off a Mass Levy before we get onto the fact that QM has stated that they have been hulking out since the start of the quest whilst we were still scrambling to survive.

While they aren't as dangerous as the Black Sheep, Western Wall is very far from being a pushover. We might get a swift victory over them, but I consider it unlikely enough that we shouldn't base our plans around it.
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We're definitely getting a swifter victory than against the black sheep so I think we need to hit them strongly to deal with that issue before we get bogged down on both fronts. Hell, with the estimates thrown around, we're really going to need that strength just to win against them at all!
 
Nyvis said:
We're definitely getting a swifter victory than against the black sheep so I think we need to hit them strongly to deal with that issue before we get bogged down on both fronts. Hell, with the estimates thrown around, we're really going to need that strength just to win against them at all!
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Swifter on what timeline?
 
Nyvis said:
We're definitely getting a swifter victory than against the black sheep so I think we need to hit them strongly to deal with that issue before we get bogged down on both fronts. Hell, with the estimates thrown around, we're really going to need that strength just to win against them at all!
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We don't need a swifter victory against Western Wall, we just need to retake Thunder Plateau by the end of 1622. Beyond that, we can afford to take our time with the war.
 
Aranfan said:
Can you? Even nationalist revaunchism can only sustain war on such a scale for so long in terms of home front morale.
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I was thinking in terms of money because home front morale hasn't been a thing in the quest before this post. We haven't had to worry about it in any prior updates.
 
Oshha said:
We don't need a swifter victory against Western Wall, we just need to retake Thunder Plateau by the end of 1622. Beyond that, we can afford to take our time with the war.
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The longer the war remain on two fronts, the longer we waste our military by failing to concentrate forces for a knock out blow. This isn't about the unification timeline. It's about not losing to the meatgrinder.
 
Nyvis said:
The longer the war remain on two fronts, the longer we waste our military by failing to concentrate forces for a knock out blow. This isn't about the unification timeline. It's about not losing to the meatgrinder.
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Then go for both by focusing our forces on Black Sheep whilst the rest keep Western Wall busy and then once Thunder Plateau is ours again, we can focus our forces on Western Wall. Like was previously discussed.
 
Oshha said:
Then go for both by focusing our forces on Black Sheep whilst the rest keep Western Wall busy and then once Thunder Plateau is ours again, we can focus our forces on Western Wall. Like was previously discussed.
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My desire to focus west first rest on what's easier to root enemies out of. Open land or a very hilly plateau with bad supply lines?

Unless you're literally the Rashidun Caliphate, conquering Persia is not easy. There's a reason why it's where empires went to fall back rather than the main territory they fought over historically.

At the very least can we assign our cavalry west where it'll get the good terrain matchup?
 
I agree with Oshha here.
Deploying the Banner companies immediately is a mistake.
Let the first thrust to the BS be done by the levies, while 300000 men keep the WW in check.
Afterwards we can discuss where to deploy the banner companies, they are a scalpel, we need to get the hammer strikes out of the way first.

We might need them, for example, if WW decides to an all out attack.
 
Nyvis said:
At the very least can we assign our cavalry west where it'll get the good terrain matchup?
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I want to assign our Banner Companies to the reserve because our Martial Hero considers that to be wiser than sending them against either the Black Sheep or Western Wall. Unless Dafydd's advice has changed, I want to follow it.
Oshha said:
If we send the Mass Levy after both, would Dafydd prefer to send the Banner Companies after Black Sheep or Western Wall?
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Aranfan said:
As for the banner companies, it may be wiser to keep them in reserve. Depending on information you don't know.
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Oshha said:
I want to assign our Banner Companies to the reserve because our Martial Hero considers that to be wiser than sending them against either the Black Sheep or Western Wall. Unless Dafydd's advice has changed, I want to follow it.
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All right, that's a good argument, let's listen to the expert.

Might be worth having a bit more in reserve so we can rotate levies?
 
Oshha said:
I want to assign our Banner Companies to the reserve because our Martial Hero considers that to be wiser than sending them against either the Black Sheep or Western Wall. Unless Dafydd's advice has changed, I want to follow it.
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Dafydd was hedging a lot there because there is a bunch of unknowns involved. It was not intended as 100% absolute definite correct truth.

Oshha said:
Possibly. @Aranfan Is it feasible to do this?
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Isn't that explicitly a function of the reserve as laid out in the post? I thought I had been clear about that.
 
Aranfan said:
Dafydd was hedging a lot there because there is a bunch of unknowns involved. It was not intended as 100% absolute definite correct truth.
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I am aware of that, but as far as I can tell, the unknown from back then are still the same unknowns that we have now.
Aranfan said:
Isn't that explicitly a function of the reserve as laid out in the post? I thought I had been clear about that.
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Ah, I hadn't realised that the back posting bit was the same as rotating between the frontlines and the reserves.
 
[] Plan Oshha
-[] Thunder Plateau Front: 670,000 men & Dragon General Dafydd.
-[] Western Wall Front: 270,000 men.
-[] Reserve: Both Banner Companies & 60,000 Men

Okay, I have updated my plan to have a reserve of levies to rotate with the frontlines. Beyond that, it remains the same with focusing the bulk of our forces on the Black Sheep while the rest keep Western Wall busy. The Banner Companies are being kept in reserve so we can use them to react to any unexpected situations such as one of the fronts going badly or a surprise invasion by someone else. I wouldn't put it past Hellas to make a try for the Tin Tribes or Trelli while they think we are distracted in both the north and east.
 
Don't we want to keep some additional troops in reserve so that they have place to rest instead of fighting on the frontline the whole time?
 
Kiba said:
Don't we want to keep some additional troops in reserve so that they have place to rest instead of fighting on the frontline the whole time?
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Some, but blunting the initial attack too much may be unwise, specially since we do not know how big of an attack they are expecting. If they expect our full force then keeping too much in reserve will just lead to the first push bouncing off, which is not good. Whereas if they expect a significantly smaller attack, actually giving it to them would be even worse because it'd mean we missed the chance to make major headway.

With some luck, we can pull more troops to the reserve after we've broken through key defensive positions, maybe exchange them with the smaller but more effective Banner Companies.
 
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065tdsa said:
Some, but blunting the initial attack too much may be unwise, specially since we do not know how big of an attack they are expecting. If they expect our full force then keeping too much in reserve will just lead to the first push bouncing off, which is not good. Whereas if they expect a significantly smaller attack, actually giving it to them would be even worse because it'd mean we missed the chance to make major headway.
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This.
Holding back 80.000 people, like in the current plan, makes sense, maybe up to 100.000 people, but no more.
 
[X] Plan Oshha
-[X] Thunder Plateau Front: 670,000 men & Dragon General Dafydd.
-[X] Western Wall Front: 270,000 men.
-[X] Reserve: Both Banner Companies & 60,000 Men

We are focusing the bulk of our forces on the Black Sheep while the rest keep Western Wall busy. The Banner Companies are being kept in reserve so we can use them to react to any unexpected situations such as one of the fronts going badly or a surprise invasion by someone else. I wouldn't put it past Hellas to make a try for the Tin Tribes or Trelli while they think we are distracted in both the north and east. Some of the levy is also being kept in reserve so we can rotate fresh soldiers to the frontlines and give our frontline forces a chance to recover.
 
Wait a minute, how much of Ymaryn do Western Wall retain? They've spread and feudalized a bit, but do they have big cities?

If they can call even a lesser mass levy then that would crush 270,000 men wouldn't it?
 
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