- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I suppose his enemies call him "Palomino"
Westernesse: A Númenórean Colony Quest
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
hmmmm I think we have him all wrong he not a king men supporter he a faithful supporter that might have come here to give us a good review or make this new faithful colony stays alive and perhaps find kindered spirits? or maybe he more a neutral member
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- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Be sure of nothing, except that you have not grasped all the epicycles of the plots that are afoot.
- Location
- Texas
The foals of the great stables at Tal Karab are the held to be the finest lineage on the Blessed Isle. Their lineage, and the stables, were established when Karpharaz's great-great-great grandfather brought sixteen Haradric stallions back with him from the southern continent. He and his heirs bred them with the more popular Beorian and Neldorin thoroughbreds which the Edain had brought with them from Beleriand, selecting for glossy coats and high necks. Though the breed was initially scorned for it's dark color and high carriage, the size and speed of the horses of Tal Karab rapidly became undeniable. Within the past three centuries, the Karab Thoroughbred has become the dominant horse on the Blessed Isle for both racing and personal use, and it is now a matter of prestige and honor for every lord of any note to have a lineage of their own.
The horse-masters of Tal Karab were ennobled three generations back by order of the King, and it is the personal honor of the ruling Lord of the Hill of Horses to hand-raise the personal steeds of every King and ruling heir. With the ascension of the present Lord of Tal Karab to the Council of the Scepter as the King's Steward, the family has completed their meteoric rise from horse-breeders to right hands of the King, second to none in all the realms of the High Men.
This has, understandably, angered many old and established families in the Blessed Isle. What has Númenor come to, some complain, that the dung of the stable should share seat and honor with the blood of Elros, or the scions of heroes kneel before a breeder of stallions?
I suppose his enemies call him "Palomino"
Out of his earshot and under their breaths, they call him the Horse-Lord.
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bookwyrm
Doom of Public Libraries
- Location
- Wichita, Kansas
Numenor kinda showing its ass being just an island nation on this one, I think. Boats and towers, towers and boats, it's all those ancient nobles can think about! And meanwhile far from the coastal shores out into the wilderness there stands the real Lords of Horses, thunder on the turf and shining reflections of the midday sun. I'd honestly bet on one of Nahar's foals to outrace even one of the Greatships, at least in a sprint, for all the wind at your sails can do you no good when you race wind itself.
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- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- Him/He
We had some japes about comparing this quest with Magna Graecia some times ago but I do feel this is one point where the two quests are alike in the best of ways: they both drive home that NPCs aren't aware that they are NPCs, and therefore have a life of their own, and that a relatively low-powered PC, although by no mean the lowest in the totem pole is exactly that: a heavyweight in our particular neck of the wood, perhaps, but dwarfed by the true powers that be.Also a really good point.
Honestly, it kind of echoes our discussion earlier about arrogance and assuming a sort of protagonist-centred worldview where everything revolves around us. Although in fairness, at least from Tolkien's sources - it may be different in the continuity of this quest given the mention of a "priesthood" in the last update - the Faithful do not seem to have had much organised religion. They venerate Eru, but in a kind of quiet, understated way, and do not believe it is their place to call on him directly. So there is potentially a bit of a gap which might be filled by a "Church of the Faithful", whilst I agree we are not the ones to fill it. On the third hand, if the Faithful did create an organised Church, it would likely be as fallible as any other creation of the hands of Men, which leads to the possibility...
Which is more dangerous, Grand Vizier Twink Sauron or Pope Twink Sauron?
Which, IMO is why we should avoid being remarked on at all costs. We should relish being seen at this insignificant backwater with a quirky sea lord back home for as long as our growth allows it.
On the question of a Church and Priesthood IMO, we should understand it under a pretty loose definition: if you have a set of ceremonies and beliefs with reasonable cohesion and concrete rules attached to it then you have a church of some kind. If you have designated people to play specific roles in those things then you have a priesthood.
Incidentally, that particular aspect of the Faithful vs King's Men divide is one of the key reasons why I have never bought the Akalebeth indicating that Tolkien had animosity with Protestantism. These days the Latin vs Vernacular divide is the first thing most people think about when their minds go to the theological differences of the Reformation, and obviously, it's hard to not see a parallel with Quenya and Adunaic, but as important at the time was the high vs low church divide, the division between those supporting very ornate churches and elaborated ceremonies which marked the pre-Reformation Church and those believing that all of that should be swept away in favor of more simplicity. In that regard, the Faithfuls are actually closer to the Protestants than the Catholics of the Reformation era. If I had to guess I'd say that Tolkien's mind naturally and unconsciously went to the Reformation when crafting a religious divide, because culturally that would be the big one in England's psyche, but the fact that good and bad guys alike in Arda have aspects fitting both real-life religions mean we shouldn't see them as parallels of anything in real history IMO.
Just gonna point out that something that really help out our colony is a literal gold mine and just to the south is the white mountains their north of anfalas where it is said literal gold is rumored to dwell.
so next turn we should take a exploration option to explore the white mountains so we can find out if these rumors are true or not. There are also the other benefits of getting a good grasp of surronding south of us, seeing if there any threats, getting a read on the middle men of that region hopefully coming into friendship with them and potenitally finding other resources too.
BalerionTheDrake
Pacta sunt servanda
It would be funny if young Adunakhor were to pop up in the future. Like a campaign into the interior rolls by and its the grandson of the king waving hello.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
"I cordially dislike allegory. . . "
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
While I certainly wasn't first thinking of Númenór when I heard the song, and it has a few bits and trappings that simply do not fit Arda, I think that Empire, by Dar Williams, does make an interesting piece to listen to in the context of this thread.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpF2qO2b9aY
And the empire fell
On it's own splintered axis.
And the emperor wanes
As the silver moon waxes.
And the farmers will find our coins
In their strawberry fields
While somebody somewhere
Twists his ring as someone kneels...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpF2qO2b9aY
And the empire fell
On it's own splintered axis.
And the emperor wanes
As the silver moon waxes.
And the farmers will find our coins
In their strawberry fields
While somebody somewhere
Twists his ring as someone kneels...
By the way, @Telamon, is the level of forestation of Eriador and the Enedhwaith shown in the map in the OP accurate for the quest? If not, would it be huge PITA to give a run-down of where it should be?
The reason I ask is that I was thinking of making a map of Eriador roughly showing approximate locations of the various peoples and places we've encountered so far, but I'd like the forestation on it to be roughly accurate. I know that at least a significant chunk of Enedhwaith should still be forested because that's where Ironbark is chilling out, but beyond that I was less certain. My impression was that Ironbark's forest was actually further east up towards the source of the Isen and the foot of the the Misty Mountains, as those would have been harder for logging expeditions to reach, whereas the map shows large areas of forest surprisingly close to Lond Daer, but no forest along the Isen.
The map also shows Minhiriath as very forested, which I am unsure about given the recentmost update mentions it being deforested. Other than presumably Eryn Vorn which we know remained a wooded cape into the Third Age, but well, you see why I'm asking. 😅
The reason I ask is that I was thinking of making a map of Eriador roughly showing approximate locations of the various peoples and places we've encountered so far, but I'd like the forestation on it to be roughly accurate. I know that at least a significant chunk of Enedhwaith should still be forested because that's where Ironbark is chilling out, but beyond that I was less certain. My impression was that Ironbark's forest was actually further east up towards the source of the Isen and the foot of the the Misty Mountains, as those would have been harder for logging expeditions to reach, whereas the map shows large areas of forest surprisingly close to Lond Daer, but no forest along the Isen.
The map also shows Minhiriath as very forested, which I am unsure about given the recentmost update mentions it being deforested. Other than presumably Eryn Vorn which we know remained a wooded cape into the Third Age, but well, you see why I'm asking. 😅
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- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The map in the OP is of Amazon's mashed-up timeline, but it draws more from the early than from the late Second Age (you can tell from Ost-in-Edhil not being ruined). Generally speaking, Minhiriath and northern Enedwaith around the Gwathlo should be deforested, and there should be a belt of forests running from western Enedwaith and northern Druwaith Iaur around the mouth of Angren and the foothills of the White Mountains (this first having a biggish gap in it around Tar Nilon), then another around the foothills of the Misty Mountains in southern Dunland (it, like the Gwathlo, gets its name from the shadows of its heavy forest cover's canopy) petering out towards the Gap of Calenardhon, then the familiar Fangorn Forest, Golden Wood, and Greenwood in more or less their familiar bounds.
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This would be my rough assumption too, yeah, but there are a few points I'm uncertain on. For example, I'd actually thought that Ironbark's forest might not run quite as far west into Enedwaith as that; anything which is just a day or two upriver is probably easy pickings. Also I suspect that the forest might actually continue through the Gap of Rohan and up the eastern edge of of the Misty Mountains until it joins up with Fangorn; which we know was much larger once. But I think the fact that we've both come to different (and both reasonable, I think) conclusions illustrates why it might be useful to check.
Was there ever a route to save Numenor with a worker's revolution?
with iluvatar anything is possible
Should everything we plan all go well, what do you guys think of our chances moving on Numenor before it tries to sink itself?
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Why would we do that? We don't have a chance of changing the Numenoreans' mind about elves and Illuvatar, let's not kill ourselves by trying to do it.
oh zero percent Numenor is the strongest empire in the world we are a little rinky colony on the edge of the world unless we go with the idea of trying to start a massive relgious movment across numeronon world then we aren't gonna be able too
I mean, if we are astounding successful in creating a league of Numenorian colonies (with Faithful leadership), we're essentially setting things up for the American Civil War.
We could potential save the island itself if we successfully derail the King's Men from attempting to invade Valinor if we build a sufficiently strong alliance of Faithful. I can sort of imagine a scenario in which the colonial fleets basically blockade the sea "keyhole" through which Valinor is accessible, and we either engage in true civil war or "just" a Cold War in which we basically stall the invasion.
Edit: as other posters have noted, the above scenario is wildly unrealistic given our status as a backwater colony at current. Probably a "best case" scenario is that we cobble together a post-Numenorian nation with the refugees and survivors.
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- Location
- Texas
The workers of the High Men are still High Men. The rallying cry which drove the first of them to form the Guild was that they should not need to suffer and toil in mines, or break their bodies with endless labour. Like all the men of the Blessed Isle, they are conscious ever and always of themselves as Numenoreans, the Tall Men who are above and beyond the pains of the world. They have swelled so rapidly in size and power because the sentiment echoed in their existence is one which every Numenorean feels in their heart: who are we, to labor and suffer so? Who are we, to die as they die in the mines and the hills and the deep wells?
"We are the Tall Men," their hearts answer. "Such a destiny is not for us."
The Guild of the Workers has fashioned unbreakable protections for her members in the laws of all the cities and provinces of the Blessed Isle. They are compensated fairly and justly, and treated with the respect and honor due to skilled craftsmen of the Houses of the Edain. But the Guild does not care for the Middle-Men in the dark bowels of the ships of the Venturers, or the laborers with bloody hands who break stones in the long shadow of Umbar.
They are not of the Tall Men. Their destiny, it is felt with iron certainty, is not our own.
That's the thing, we don't… at least not yet. But with the way the politics back in the home island goes, we may (at the relative future) have to participate in one form or another.
And I for one, would like to tip the scales in favor of the Faithful in the hopes we might save much as we can from Numenor- if not butterfly the King's irrevocable heresy of sailing to Aman, away.
- Location
- Texas
I love Dar Williams, as a matter of fact. I've never connected her music to this quest, myself, but I definitely appreciate the comparison.
Who's afraid of the sun?
Who'd question the goodness of the mighty?
bookwyrm
Doom of Public Libraries
- Location
- Wichita, Kansas
In other words, Numenor has their own CIO-AFL
Middle Men: Guess I'll die
Numenorean: Yes you will