Got some new researches in the threadmark as well as plenty of discounts, especially in Biology.
-[] Hardware Psychic Encryption (50 RP) To properly block scrying, you need to design new psychic shielding. You don't think it'll be more expensive, but you could be wrong. (New versions of psychic shielding that block scrying with much greater effectiveness. Likely unlocks better versions that will defeat the most powerful seers, and may unlock specialized research to build installations that will deny scrying and foresight over a larger area - like a system)

-[] Perfect Knockout (75 RP) Your knockout gas is good, but it could be great. Increase dosage window, increase duration, decrease side effects. Make it absorb through exposed skin. (Dramatically improves effectiveness of knockout gas).

-[] Superhuman Uppers (100 RP) Pushing beyond the realm of what's normally possible for the human body is a recipie for disaster - unless you design the drugs right. (Unlocks drugs to boost human mental and physical characterstics beyond norms. Includes basic psytech drugs. Half of unlocking further psytech drugs).
Seems like another 50RP to clean up the psy-shield's anti-scry. Which already seems to be somewhat working since it states "with much greater effectiveness".
 
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My personal goals to achieve
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is unlikely we do a full research turn,we do 2 to 3 research in a turn on average (thats roughly one action)

i always advocate for what i call "chaos suite 101" wich is getting foundational tech in how to handle chaos

>machine spirit psy shield
>chaos resistant machine spirit
>improve tripwires to basic quality instead of shoddy/shitty
>hardware psy encription (seems very obvious next step for psy encription)
>taste of chaos
>demonology

as long 1 of these is done every turn (excluding crysis) im happy
 
Honestly, I think our biggest problem is that our priority list for research is something like several thousand RP, and we only get 200 per action plus another ~140 from Anexa and the Cogitare.

With that in mind, Research Plan: Kick-Starting The Singularity
Very much on board for this. I'd like to couple Computational R&D with a diplomacy action to help organize Denva's R&D sector, which Neablis said would be helpful as well. The RoI we will get from the research boon will increase the earlier we do this, and it's important to note that the reserach boon doesn't expire. So we will continue to get any tech from the general design/industry tree that Denva figures out.

Edit: I'd also like to expand the research boon to cover Biology and Cybernetics. Those two trees would have a huge benefit for Denva and are filled with lots of lower costs technologies, making them easier for Denva to work through.
 
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Huh... I see what you mean. One potential solution would be to Install kill switches. If anyone connects to a shield with any kind of connector that could change the meaning brick the whole thing and alert the authorities (though a built in audio alarm). After all there is no reason why the shield would have to be linked to anything external, shield damage could be displayed on a built in system with no connections to the outside world.
I've been around DRM and seen the scenes for cracking it from afar for a long time, so my intuition is that while these would mitigate the issue, they wouldn't stop it altogether.

But you've given me an idea: if we want the gold standard in tamper resistance? That'd be machine spirits. Ergo, MSCR->MSCPS should mostly see this problem licked. We needed those to make an export version anyways, so that's good civ.
That thing you're attributing to Bongo didn't actually happen, though the relevant passage does suggest something along those lines might have happened if the vault shields weren't built with subunit self-destruct charges which scuttled each corrupted section before it could:
Oh, pfft. Yeah, you're right. I just remembered the "tendrils of scrap code" from the paragraph after and mistook those for coming from the corrupted shield panels while missing the explosives entirely.
Though of course this event suggests that mono-function psy shields can already be used to chaotic ends when corrupted. (Though they might need to be physically compromised before being spiritually compromised in order to avoid the incendiaries.)
It does, yeah. There's two factors that make this less bad, though:
1. Corruption in progress is visible, or soon will be visible to every other shield. Rapid response could be on the scene before anything bad happens. A software change using alternate meanings... maybe not so much.
2. We probably don't want bombs in as wide circulation as shields - I think that was a measure specific to bongo's shield, 'cause otherwise he could probably have triggered them on our main shield after breaking out or something like that, since he was on the inside.

These are somewhat valid concerns; yet, as I stated before, that would be trivially detectable with Empathy... and that's before we get into Taste of Chaos and Empathy at Range.
After the fact, yes. The big, important problem isn't "our sensors can detect evil shields during evil shield operation", but that our sensors cannot detect the development and implementation of Evil Shields, and that it's harder for conventional counterintelligence to discover the prep for evil shields than the prep for a ritual that requires human sacrifice.

If somebody wants to pull a bongo and try to corrupt the shields that way, our sensors would immediately detect that and the culprit gets nabbed before their plan gets off the ground, just like with a regular ritual.

If somebody turns their shield into a corruption generator with a software update, we may only find out after it's turned on and is already doing bad things - and notably, flipping the switch could be done remotely, so a whole bunch of corruption generators could be done all at the same time, dealing widespread harm and overwhelming responders. It's not for nothing that I characterized this as a "city threatening" disaster.

All the above concerns also count for demon phones, except there it's also an open question how quickly we could notice it happening once it's started, though there are probably options to mitigate that.
That was never going to happen. I warned repeatedly that it was never going to happen. It's plainly obvious that Denva doesn't have a research body to its name.
Neablis has already said otherwise - they had no research body to their name.
Also I have to say I am profoundly unimpressed by Denva's research. What was that 1 AP worth of research for that boon? We could have gotten a lot more work out of diplomats for Vitcan or another psyker.
They spent a good chunk of time just setting up R&D, and were more focused on designs than tech.
Now they do. We could have bootstrapped their research before - there were construction actions for this - but we chose not to. You get what you pay for.

That said, most techs that would improve their throughput also improves our research throughput. I've had plans kicking around for some time about how we can avoid getting tied up uplifting individual planets, and we'll see if that goes anywhere.
 
I've been around DRM and seen the scenes for cracking it from afar for a long time, so my intuition is that while these would mitigate the issue, they wouldn't stop it altogether.

But you've given me an idea: if we want the gold standard in tamper resistance? That'd be machine spirits. Ergo, MSCR->MSCPS should mostly see this problem licked. We needed those to make an export version anyways, so that's good civ.

DRM has to work around the fact that those devices are meant to connect to some external systems. In this case it would be 'if anything changes the output of data, a single stray byte of information after the factory set it loose whole thing is bricked, also there is a klaxon going off'. That said I think machine spirits are a good backup.
 
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Ah, but if we have Chaos Telephones, we could at some point have masses of people constantly call them, so that the cultists won't be able to get through.

That's right. We'll ddos Chaos.
 
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Honestly, I think our biggest problem is that our priority list for research is something like several thousand RP, and we only get 200 per action plus another ~140 from Anexa and the Cogitare.

With that in mind, Research Plan: Kick-Starting The Singularity

Next turn...

-[] Collaberative Computational R&D (250 RP) (Anexa Focus)

Invent Science!GitHub to take immediate better advantage of our available Cogitare and kick-start the Stellar Ascendancy's science. Pair with a diplomatic action to help them figure out what research programs even look like. To quote Neablis "Collaborative Computational would be a big deal for them. It's basically inventing github but for science. Communication is king in research." and "It would be quite useful to spend a diplomatic action to organize their research efforts. They're trying to figure out what research institutions look like, since they haven't had one before." Anexa gets the focus on this because we want the best possible result to maximize long-term research gains.

-[] Improved Organic-Machine control (75 RP)

Fully redesign our implants both to double the CP available to OMC Operators and more importantly, make sure the next wave of implants is starting from the best possible position.

The turn after that...

-[] Lower OMC Implant Specs (150 RP)

To quote Neablis "The lower implant spec would turn their training pipeline into a training river" and the continuing increased implant familiarity would put us in the best place for the last jump...

-[] Companion Cogitators (350 RP) (Anexa Focus)

Invent the fucking Cybran Nation with Anexa as our Dr. Brackman. Flat improvement to all our brain implants to boost research capacity, both the tech itself and the fact it was originally a 500 RP cost say it's going to be a big improvement, and on top of everything else, one of the follow-up techs mentioned at one point was personality backups. Soul-StonesCortical-Stacks baby!

This also all sounds nice, but again, without warp comms, we can't stick around to make use of it. Wayfarer will send us packing sooner or later, and then we'll spend who knows how many turns exploring before we can go back.
 
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These shields are things we want to be absolutely everywhere. We want them to be ubiquitous.

I'll just note that you are taking about tearing down and rebuilding at least a billion units of housing to do this. Even at something ridiculous like 10 houses per BP that's not achievable for a century, if we want to do literally anything else.

The thing about faith is that it's cheap and scales well. In a world of infinite resources psyshields would be the best solution; in this world something self-propegating and easy to spread to be planets is better.

Honestly, I think our biggest problem is that our priority list for research is something like several thousand RP, and we only get 200 per action plus another ~140 from Anexa and the Cogitare.

The underlying truth behind all of this is that we don't actually need to do any of the research.

We could do the entire rest of this game with just the tech we've got, build commands, and orders, if we really wanted to, we'd just have to get a lot more lax about delegating and who we ally with.

So research should be pitched based on longer term strategy, not "OMG WE HAVE SO MANY GAPS WE NEED EVERYTHING OR ELSE WE ARE DEAD!" sorts of emotional appeals.
 
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The thing about faith is that it's cheap and scales well. In a works of infinite resources psyshields would be the best solution; in this world something self-propegating and easy to spread to be planets is better.

Faith isn't that scalable though. Even Faith in the Emperor who is both powerful and profoundly opposed to Chaos basically does nothing until you get to a pretty high level of devotion (psykers-praying-all-day sororitas etc...) and what you have to scale is sincerity, depth of emotion squishy things like that. On the other hand to build houses all you need is rock solid BP and our tech is good at providing BP
 
This also all sounds nice, but again, without warp comms, we can;t stick around to make use of it. Wayfarer will send us packing sooner or later, and then we'll spend who knows how many turns exploring before we can go back.

I am absolutely in favor of having warp comms before we leave, but I think boosting the research capacity of us and our allies first may even make that easier, and absolute worst case scenario we have control of an ascendant Cogitare faction now on top of a large industrial base and will shortly have Void Abaci, so we could get by with courier-ships for a turn or two if we were forced out of the system before we had the ability to keep in touch setup. I'll stress again that said approach would be a last resort. Also, just to quote a relevant recent word from Neablis...

"I'm not going to chase you out of Denva for a while. You've done some exploring, you've found some dangers and it's fine to just sit around for a bit, though I won't give you an exact turn number. However, keep in mind that every turn you spend here you're not spending out there, maybe preventing a system from devolving into Chaos or being Orked."
 
I'll just note that you are taking about tearing down and rebuilding at least a billion units of housing to do this. Even at something ridiculous like 10 houses per BP that's not achievable for a century, if we want to do literally anything else.

The thing about faith is that it's cheap and scales well. In a world of infinite resources psyshields would be the best solution; in this world something self-propegating and easy to spread to be planets is better.
SSDIPS - the "make psy shielding free" tech, can be applied to housing:
I think it'll remove the extra BP from the design cost. You'd need to redesign blueprints and it would cost extra RP to do that, but then the BP cost would be free/reduced.
The idea behind that tech is if you're going to be making a lot of something you can integrate a basic psychic shield into it pretty easily by spending a lot of effort on the design. Good for things like bots, tanks, houses. Not so good for one-off tech labs. So unless you're going to be building one in every system...
And they are currently rebuilding a lot of housing, because the world has been subject to orbital bombardment and chaos cruelty-for-cruelty's-sake shenanigans anywhere that's not Aevon.

So why not rebuild it safer? It's not like Vita will have to shell out for the construction, we just give them the design - or even just the ability to make their own design, and they'll do it themselves.

And because of that, we can just... do both. My earlier spitball does do both, and I listed faith part 1 as a more firm prospect than SSDIPS, even. They're different tools with different advantages that support each other, no dichotomy necessary.

Also, since this IS a crash build of housing, you should think less "single family homes" and more "bigass apartment buildings".
I am absolutely in favor of having warp comms before we leave, but I think boosting the research capacity of us and our allies first may even make that easier, and absolute worst case scenario we have control of an ascendant Cogitare faction now on top of a large industrial base and will shortly have Void Abaci, so we could get by with courier-ships for a turn or two if we were forced out of the system before we had the ability to keep in touch setup. I'll stress again that said approach would be a last resort. Also, just to quote a relevant recent word from Neablis...

"I'm not going to chase you out of Denva for a while. You've done some exploring, you've found some dangers and it's fine to just sit around for a bit, though I won't give you an exact turn number. However, keep in mind that every turn you spend here you're not spending out there, maybe preventing a system from devolving into Chaos or being Orked."
The neat thing about warp comms is that there's a lot more we can defer.

Mass-market OMC training is one of the iffier things to do before Chaos is more on lock - even with 11 years here, the war-band largely still relied on captured and lobotomized OMC operators rather than getting their own. Things might be good enough for it next turn though, and certainly should be good enough the turn after if we focus on anti-cultist stuff first.

But, we'll also have the option of doing warp comms and then iterating on our OMC and implant tech while we're out of system.


That said, I've been envisioning us doing diplomacy to get closer research and manufacturing cooperation set up in the coming turn regardless, because the latter especially would improve our construction budget while we're here. That's extra good for any close-mid-term plans that want to build up those ship hulls into a fleet... like, say, a bunch of stealthy manned scouts we could send out to see what's going on in the rest of Zantris.
 
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We should also get Denva to send ships to Vorthryn, Ascalon and Caldereth once we help them get thei feet back on solid ground. Don't want to leave our tech-priests stranded.
 
We should also get Denva to send ships to Vorthryn, Ascalon and Caldereth once we help them get thei feet back on solid ground. Don't want to leave our tech-priests stranded.

I'll be a little surprised if we aren't in a better position to put together an entirely Cogitare expedition to go check on them before the SA is ready to do it.

And by that I do mean building some ships to be crewed by Cogitare and sent, not just going ourselves and bringing Cogitare with us. We just formally (re)established them as an organization and setup recruiting in addition to taking over a giant industrial base.
 
I'll be a little surprised if we aren't in a better position to put together an entirely Cogitare expedition to go check on them before the SA is ready to do it.

And by that I do mean building some ships to be crewed by Cogitare and sent, not just going ourselves and bringing Cogitare with us. We just formally (re)established them as an organization and setup recruiting in addition to taking over a giant industrial base.
Depending on the standards set, we could do that as early as next turn - though that would seem rather premature. (Need abacus construction and a design, preferably fitting into the available hulls, then enough BP to fix the shipyard and build the design, which I think we should be able to manage handily, at least for something on the smaller end.)
 
Just a thought be we might want to consider doing Immaterium Understanding next turn not just because of the research discounts but because it's Guaranteed to give Anexa at least one more level and depending on how many levels a good roll will give her it might boost her to level twenty.
 
Just a thought be we might want to consider doing Immaterium Understanding next turn not just because of the research discounts but because it's Guaranteed to give Anexa at least one more level and depending on how many levels a good roll will give her it might boost her to level twenty.
Depends on how well off we're doing on hunting down cultists, I think - Denva is still in the rebuilding phase, so any technology we can make right now such as SSDIPS or civilian tripwires (~100RP followup to tripwire reliability) that improves their baseline will have an outsized impact. That's aside from wanting to get faith studies rolling, and the do-or-die roll there that we want Anexa on.

Or checking out Primus. Or diplomacy for research/manufacturing integration.

Or literally any prep for new ships, or grav guns for those necrons.

We really just have too many short term needs right now. 😅
 
@avatar11792 We are probably not doing 2 full turns of 3 Research Actions each. We still need to check on the aliens, recruit more people and do a once over to make sure the entire system of Denva is clean.
Making sure we can scan for cultists would mean we recruit pretty much anywhere, which makes sense.

I'm not saying 600rp is expected, but once we grab Klyssars Nest, we'll mainly have to do a ton o Construction, but that leaves potentially 3 slots open. The way I listed them was more an idea of how to possibly prioritize things.

And interesting list, I agree with most of your choices. Why no larger scale machine spirits


It is advanced materials, which you already have.
Ah, sweet, glad that's accounted for.

Large scale is on my master list, but it didn't make the cut for the next 2 turns list. Was hoping we can pay for ship research before laying down a single hull, this way everything is integrated from the beginning.

I do think your techs seem interesting, though I would personally add to those Demonology, Immaterium Understanding, Necron Research, Faith, and the Navibean tree. Preferably before all the weapon techs. We have enough void weapon options as is.
Immaterium Understanding I get, and also Warp Comms. I don't want to go down the route Demonology would lead us, Necron research is slightly padlocked behind Advanced Materials but not to the point we couldn't do it, just Advanced Materials would make it a lot easier. Faith...eh. I prefer having firepower and AI strengths to Faith myself, so I could care less. The Navigator I'm not sure about, I'm happy to leave that to the players because I'm neutral on whether we need one or not.

As for whether we have enough weapons or not, considering where Dark Age ai, we are not nearly as overpowered as Canon usually has us being. This is partially because we're an explorer ai and we come from an earlier time period where their weapons technology wasn't as developed, but we definitely do need greater firepower and resilience against everything the 40K Galaxy can throw at us. Just because our Grand Cruiser is doing somewhat okay and void combat doesn't mean we can do a lot better. I'd rather overpower my enemies then just take it on faith we're doing okay.

Without warp comms, we can't really make good use of that, as we need to keep all our ships close. Hence why I want to rush warp comms - cause then we can do things like start sending out sensor ships to scout ahead of us, or behind us, and have them keep watch for hostile fleets and the like.
That makes sense, I would definitely be okay with warp comms early on to guarantee that that technology is integrated in our first ships. Between warp comms and void abacus, the combo would help our ships be able to coordinate moving through the warp on long distances much easier. on long distances much easier.
 
We really just have too many short term needs right now. 😅
I'm hoping that we will soon reach the point that we can research not only improving Vita, but safely making and raising up more AI. Because its becoming increasingly clear that even with our advancements with OMC and other cybernetic brain-implants? We are just mostly compensating with inferior solutions, when compared to what even the early DAoT had with the capability of just making more AIs.

Fortunately, I think we are nearing it. Psy Encryption follow-up and containing Bongo with Daemonology seems like it would take care of the most dangers a growing AI might face. We could raise them up on Vita's ship first, then give them a ship-body of their own, then see if they are willing to band together with us for a growing fleet, help with Denva or some other place, or go their own way.

Unfortunately, I think that things like more firepower and numbers and massive ships are required also, so that neither we or Denva will get caught off-guard again by the more material threats. So I will be satisfied with chipping away at AI techs for now, while at the same time taking care of the more immediate problems.
 
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