My headcanon is that all these flags are used by different factions who can't quiiiiite seem to agree.

> : V
 
We'll know in a century. I figure as long as we don't tick off anymore Greeks with goats we should be alright.
Timeo Danaos et capra ferentis

"Beware of Greeks bearing goats."

And, hm. It occurs to me that Billy Sianis, with his curse, also demonstrated one of the key principles of magic, befitting such a terrible and mighty sorceror:

Do not summon that which you lack the strength to send away.

Because even Sianis himself, repenting decades later, was unable to break the curse. :p

I think it fitting that in this timeline the curse be broken by an act of generosity to the poor and desperate.

Wisconsin went to the Nazis, then either Victoria or Victoria in all but name.
Given the vague mumbling way that Lind's mouthpieces talk about Wisconsin, we don't know that they went Victoria.

Let's Read Chapter 37, as hosted by Coiler, provides the damning evidence of the Wisconsin Landwehr. Chapter 38 summarizes the transition to the Victorian idealogy it's not an idealogy because the author said so.
I already discussed this in an earlier post of my own.

Remember that for Victoria Falls purposes, events of the novels only inform us about how the Victorians perceived what happened, mediated by the limits of their own ability (or lack thereof) to perceive information accurately. And their own tendency to systematically falsify, to boast of their own achievements even unto Baghdad Bob levels of denial of reality, and to not comprehend basic political realities that contradict their worldview.

So we know from canon that the Wisconsin Nazis are/were a thing that they attacked south as far as Chicago for racially motivated reasons. We know they committed ghastly and gratuitous atrocities in Wisconsin. We know they were defeated. Rum-whatever-his-name-is then describes the aftermath of the downfall of the Wisconsin Nazis as:

"The victorious militias actually held a clean, statewide election for governor, which was won by a former mayor of Milwaukee known for his love of traditional architecture and desire to bring back streetcars. Wisconsin remained orderly and set about recovering its past."

...

There is nothing in that which requires us to say "Wisconsin is Victoria Lite" as opposed to "Wisconsin is a recuperating democracy still trying to restore itself after a viciously traumatic reign of terror by literal Nazis from all over the Midwest, run by a governor who, well, happens to like traditional architecture and streetcars."

Sure, traditional architecture and streetcars have fetish-level significance for the Victorians, but we don't share their fetish and are under no obligation to draw that conclusion.

Okay I like this one. I'd like it better with white stars, personally, though.

They should be :p

We want to actually unify the nation, not purge our leadership to obtain a dictatorship.
Yes, which means the communists won't purge you, and conversely, you don't get to purge the communists.

The direction I've been trying to push the Chicago Republic is that it includes socialists and is friendly to them, without being on a track towards Bolshevik-style Marxist-Leninist vanguard party tyranny. This is a recognition of the fact that many of our quest participants are socialists who want to feel included in the project, while many of them are liberals (as in "liberal democracy") who want to feel included too.
 
If we are lucky and skilled, we can create or recreate an united republic that somehow accommodate everybody from social conservatives to communists and throws out the hated foreign occupiers like the French resistance and Free French movements of old.

If we are unlucky and behave foolishly, our enemies and their foreign masters will barely need to lift a finger as we tear ourselves over ideological differences and laugh to themselves as they stoke the flames of discord with spies.

Remember this. No doubt many ugly compromises lie ahead of us. But the enemy must be destroyed and America freed from their crushing grip.
 
Yes, which means the communists won't purge you, and conversely, you don't get to purge the communists.
I mean, they kind of self purge... oh wait Sorry accidental soviet reference... well i won't erase that.
I wasn't trying to get rid of them its just If i get my way then a few of them would probably leave themselves :(
 
Chicago
[X] Chicago.

The Windy City went through the wringer during the American Collapse.

The City was always dependent on the trade and commerce that its connection to the riverways gave it. It was the thing that gave it its strength, but it meant that when things came crashing down, so too did the city. The flow of food cut off, with...predictable results.

The Victorians have so many tens of millions of lives to answer for.

That said, the complete collapse of order within the City that so many predicted never really came about. Things got bad, don't mistake it, but the City hung on by its fingernails. Some say that it was the ongoing presence of the City as a steady customer that prevented the complete collapse of the Midwest's farming industry, although that's a bit like saying that the fire-eaten husk of a log that got wedged upright from being buried in ash prevented the complete collapse of the campfire.

All that being said, Chicago kept on pushing through, surviving on a starvation diet imported from all over the Midwest. Slowly, the City started climbing back onto its feet.

Enter the literal Nazis.

No, not the Victorians. They didn't need to bother. No, a massive cross-section of neo-nazis from all over the goddamn country converged on the Northern Midwest. They wreaked havoc. Nobody was ready for them. For a few months, they ran wild, and some began to whisper that this was the first wave of a Northern Confederation annexation of the City.

And that just wasn't gonna stand.

You could write a book on how the Northern Midwest threw those Nazi bastards out. Folks have. Short version: it was hard and bloody, and it left scars on the City that ran deep. What the country's troubles couldn't do, once again, bastards intent on getting theirs out of the wreckage managed on their own. People dispersed into the countryside, and for a while, it seemed like that was it. The Victorians kept on sending, "fact-finding missions," through, and wouldn't you know it, anybody making strides in getting reorganized tended to come down with a bad case of the deads shortly afterward. No evidence, of course. But everybody knew that it was the Russians.

But then something funny wound up happening. See, it turns out that no matter what period of history you're in, Russia can only get so big before it bits off just that little bit too much and starts getting indigestion. One day, the mysterious disappearances just...quit happening. The Victorians kept coming through, of course. They were a little more panicked each time because they weren't able to send enough people to do things about the reorganizations themselves. The Russians weren't coming, and -- well, the folks who'd grown up knowing nothing but Russian terror and Victorian treason had kids of their own by then, and all of a sudden no Russians showing up in the night.

You ever heard what kinds of things a person can do when it's their kids on the line?

Afterward, people starting getting the old power plants running again. See, things had stabilized a bit, and we're not Victorians. We like our electricity. And you know something? Once you've got power going, the big city looks a lot nicer.

Things are different in Chicago these days. The City's got way fewer people than it used to, and those people have a very different vibe. You don't really see the boats in dock you used to. The museums are dark and dusty, where they're not looted. Hell, the Italian joints barely run anymore. Do you know how hard it is to get tomatoes these days? Biggest stable producers are over in the NCR. Good luck getting trade goods out of them before Russia snags it. It's been ages since I've had a proper pizza. The City feels like it's had part of its spirit ripped out by the roots. A lot of folks who used to live there before the Collapse can't make themselves go back, even now that it's livable again.

But damn, it's alive. We've got folks playing music on street corners. We've got people from all over the Country showing up in the hopes that we've got something better to offer. The America we used to have might not be around anymore, but we're building something new here, and god damn, we're all alive to see it!

And you know, once you've gotten yourself put back together and you're thinking ahead a bit, there's a strong drive to spread out a bit. Talk to folks. Urge them back into the old cities. Bulk up.

Get ready, for when Mother Bear has the attention to spare to swing on by again.

Things these days are a little uncertain. We've built up fast, and we're having some growing pains of our own. We've got a lot of people from all walks of life streaming into our area. There's a lot of friction, and a lot hasn't been settled yet. But we're alive. We took the American Collapse to the face and got back up. Now, we've got folks from all over the Northern Midwest in town to talk about how we're going to get this place up and running again. Isn't that incredible? Isn't it grand?

We're going to be all right. This whole mess is gonna blow over like a rotten breeze.

And hey, if we can deal with one thing around these parts, it's the odd stray wind.

-Derek Holland, It's All Gonna Be Fine, published in the New Chicago Tribune, April 14th, 2073.

The signing of the Chicago Accords was the largest event in the Midwest in decades' time. Delegates from all across Northern Illinois and the southern tip of Lake Michigan arrived in response to calls for a reorganization into a proper state, to discuss what kind of shape this new country should take. Negotiations went on for months. It was only thanks to Russia's distraction and Victoria's incapacity that the conference went ahead, but ahead it went. For months on end, delegates debated what kind of nation they wanted to see.

These negotiations are what we're covering now.

THIS VOTE WILL HAVE A MORATORIUM. I will make and threadmark a post once voting is open.

Folks, this is the politics vote. I know this is a very intrinsically political quest, so here's where we go nuts on that. Now, you all know what you want far better than I do, and I don't actually want to write out a bunch of options that will get erased anyway by a tide of write-ins. So, here's how this one is going. I am going to hold this moratorium until I get a good variety of input on the following categories:

  • Does this government care about ideology on a systematic level? If so, whose ideology gets a step stool over the others, and how big is it?
  • On the spectrum from, "Revise the U.S. Constitution," to, "Burn it and start anew," where do we stand?
  • How centralized is this thing? Do local governments or the central authority hold more power?
When I unlock the vote, I'll write up what you've proposed, for ease of parsing, and we'll vote on what I've collected. Anything not within these categories is going to be largely below the level of abstraction for the purposes of this vote; I'll generate something that fits the winning votes, and you'll engage with that throughout the quest. Here we're generating the style of polity we like, not actually drafting foundational legislation.

Have fun, folks! If you want to be very sure that I see your stances, tag me with them! This thread moves fast. I hope you all liked the update, and have fun with the discussion!

(Roleplaying as actual delegates to the Conference is not essential, but I know a lot of you are thinking about doing it already. Go ahead, enjoy yourselves, if you care to. ;))

One final note: I know we're delving into very divisive issues. Let's remember not to stray too far from the points at hand, please, and always respect one another's positions. Remember the rules of the site. Alright, now. Go!
 
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I say Constitutionalism! We readopt the American Constitution with some minor edits to take out the various bugs and bam easy legitimacy in the eyes of many Americans.
Central Authority should have the most sway as well.
 
Having to figure out the political system. Oh. Oh nooooooo.

This is going to be a very interesting debate on what to do, as I honestly have no idea on this right now.
 
It's just going to be awkward for me. Everyone's singing the Internationale and I'm singing the Battle Hymn of the Republic.

Question: What should our anthem be?

I vote for:

This guy gets it.

Isn't it obvious?

All in good time.

1. All ideologies may have a voice in the Republic save for the Victorians, Nazis, Tsarists and other non-democrats
2. The Constitution is the foundation of America. Revise it and restore it.
3. Local government is the only practical way to administrate the Wastes and to convince others to join our ranks.
 
Wait how far have WE regressed? Surely we have some semblance of modern tech?
So Centralized Authority is only way to be efficient.
 
I say Constitutionalism! We readopt the American Constitution with some minor edits to take out the various bugs and bam easy legitimacy in the eyes of many Americans.
Central Authority should have the most sway as well.

Call a convention, IE us!, and let the people's representatives craft a new version of the constitution for a new age!
 
We fix the Second amendment so that citizens can keep weapons without people constantly arguing about the wording.
We can also combine several amendments cause we don't need like 40289420384390328529348759287435 of them.
 
We fix the Second amendment so that citizens can keep weapons without people constantly arguing about the wording.

Personal weapons aren't strictly necessary, but an armed proletarian militia is a vital part of securing the revolution from reactionaries!

I'll give you this, but democratic workplaces are non-negotiable!
 
I think we should keep most of the original rights in the Bill of Rights which governs personal rights. We should also draft a part that specifically governs what a state can and cannot do. But we should make sure to leave room for states to draft laws that are only applicable to them. Missouri might not care too much about pollution, but thats going to be an ongoing thing unique to California due to its geography. etc.
 
More seriously, full protections for women, racial minorities, aneurotypical folks, us queers, all that good stuff, baked directly into the law!
 
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