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Bill Clinton would have shit on Iskandar..
Type Moon General
Vanargand
So tired.....
Iskandar's plans would never really work
The moment he tries MACEDONIAN KING REBORN FOR WORLD CONQUEST
You have. Magic Association (all of them I don't mean only Clock Tower). Church and possibly Dead Apostles Ancestor going for his neck
Also I just got Mebd. And I have Jack
Grand Order are you trying to tell me something?
Revlid
blob of bugs
- Location
- England
Jack the Ripper's some kind of demonhost, so I don't think she can contribute that much to a discussion about human achievement.
I get what you're trying to say, because it's pretty close to my own views about modern Servants. Hell, more than a year ago (good god, how time flies when you're having fun, or at least shitting on peoples' waifus) I posted this:
Revlid said:
I consider it pretty unfortunate that Grand Order chose to take the gonzo route, frankly. If we give Servants rankings, I'd like to see Medea as B-rank and Helena Blavatsky as D+, rather than just... also being B-rank, because Modern Humans Are Awesome Too. That's why I shit on Nobunaga's design, because she's perfectly put together as a specialist Servant who can run rampant with the right rock-paper-scissors matchup... except for the part where they gave her physical parameters on par with Fifth War Gilgamesh.
Ignoring the goofy lion head and MURRIKAH Mystic Code, I really like Edison's design, because he's great when you give him the opportunity to settle in, steal designs from people, and mass-produce goons who can use his magic weapons, but totally falls apart when faced with anyone who can ignore mass-produced stuff or just zerg rush him. I don't give Tesla anywhere near the same credit, because he's just wanky bullshit.
But trying to boil that down into "modern heroes get better Skills and NPs, and older heroes get better Parameters" is pretty clearly not true. I'd say that modern heroes tend to be more specialized - or should tend toward it, anyway. Ideally, Li Shuwen should be really good at killing other humans with a single strike (or given his legend, a particular strike he's already called out), and pretty garbage at anything else, because he doesn't have things like "I'm a demigod" or "I was blessed by fairies" or "I ate a demon" to fall back on. Contrast him with someone older in a similar area of competency, like Bodhidharma, who should have a much broader and more potent foundation to fall back on, but almost certainly isn't better than Li in that one area of "killing with a single strike".
EMIYA says something similar in his Interlude, but my understanding is that he was focused more on the idea that Heroic Spirits serve as a foundation for guiding and supporting humanity. This makes more sense to me, since I'm more likely to emulate Arturia's bravery and honour in her creation of Camelot than I am to surpass the swordsmanship of a woman with jet-thrusters for armpit farts.
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Salty
Shadow Cabal Assumptor Supreme
- Location
- Sun, Moon, Talia
- Pronouns
- I/Me
Fun historical fact time.
Remember Ushiwakamaru, she of no clothes to speak of and a weird tanuki theme? Remember how she's absolutely enamored of calling Gudao her Ani-sama or whatever and is so absolutely loyal?
...Um. History says that said older brother was the one responsible for Ushi's eventual outlawry and death.
So. Yeah.
Remember Ushiwakamaru, she of no clothes to speak of and a weird tanuki theme? Remember how she's absolutely enamored of calling Gudao her Ani-sama or whatever and is so absolutely loyal?
...Um. History says that said older brother was the one responsible for Ushi's eventual outlawry and death.
So. Yeah.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
So that's why she's on Brynhildr's list of targets.
... EMIYA (Slave)?
I. I am pretty sure that is what that says?
Or, wait, no, it's "Drei," and unfortunately they're homophones in Japanese.
That's awkward.
BlackHadou
Bunny-Sensei
In fairness, Nobunaga was summoned in Japan. It's a little difficult to say what her proper stats are, given how oh my god fucking ridiculously famous she is over there. At bare minimum she's got the Vlad treatment if not more.
Didn't Fate/Stay Night indicate in a competition of skill, Taiga would never be able to match Saber? Even ignoring that, Karna and Siegfried in Apocrypha seem to lend to the idea that no, Karna is really just that good with a spear... somehow. I don't really know how, since really, by all logic Visavi Shakti is probably the very first one he ever owned.
I dunno, this statement just seems unsubstantiated in the entirety of Fate. Cu being in the top three spearman seems to be a exception, not the rule, and even then he apparently would have issues with Diarmuid, who certainly shouldn't be in that same category.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
To be fair, Diarmuid has True Eye of the Mind, AKA the Cheating McCheater skill.
It is pretty much custom-made to help you fight enemies you really shouldn't be able to.
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Diarmuid's body count isn't far off from Cu's actually, so it's not entirely unreasonable that with the eye of the mind skill which let a shitty melee like Emiya not die instantly and gruesomely to Cu he could do incredibly well. Considering Diarmuid's 2 NPs are also geared towards single target dueling and that Cu won't be able to get Gae Bolg off as long as Diarmuid keeps hitting his spear with Gae Dearg + Diarmuid having an anti healing spear, I can see Diarmuid flat out winning provided the fight is just melee.
Revlid
blob of bugs
- Location
- England
Well, for what it's worth, Cu Chulainn and Diarmuid are only separated by, like, 300 years tops.
The Ulster Cycle takes place some time from 100BC-AD, I believe, since Conchobar's father was supposedly Fachtna Fáthach, who ruled Ireland in either the first or second half of the 1st century BC. Diarmuid, on the other hand, belongs to the Fenian Cycle, which took place some time from 100-400AD, about a century before King Arthur started fighting off the Saxons (and Vortigern).
Also worth noting is that Diarmuid has Eye of the Mind (True), meaning it was acquired through experience rather than pure instinct. He came by his ridiculous skill honestly - even moreso than EMIYA, who has Structural Grasp (Your Fighting Style) nudging him along.
The Ulster Cycle takes place some time from 100BC-AD, I believe, since Conchobar's father was supposedly Fachtna Fáthach, who ruled Ireland in either the first or second half of the 1st century BC. Diarmuid, on the other hand, belongs to the Fenian Cycle, which took place some time from 100-400AD, about a century before King Arthur started fighting off the Saxons (and Vortigern).
Also worth noting is that Diarmuid has Eye of the Mind (True), meaning it was acquired through experience rather than pure instinct. He came by his ridiculous skill honestly - even moreso than EMIYA, who has Structural Grasp (Your Fighting Style) nudging him along.
Dude was trained by an avatar of Vishnu, so...
Billy the Kid, Frankenstein, Jack?
@ Dairmuid: Isn't that only a problem because of the difference in master quality? If they were in Ireland or had similar masters, Cu would take it.
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Jack is insanely strong at assassinating women. We have no idea what Billy the Kid does rn lol. Frankenstein also isn't bad. Her stats are bad, but blasting tree is no laughing matter and galvanism is an OP skill.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Billy shoots gud. No really, he has A++ marksmanship. He does not miss. He's also fast AF on the draw. Get causality hax or get out.
Jack is a specialist lady-killer. She does her job damn well too, when she's not being plotblocked.
Or just tank it like a boss.
Or dodge, like Diarmuid does in the PV.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
That won't help you hit him faster than he hits you.
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No but it lets you casually walk up to him and smash his face in while laughing his crap off.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Unless you have bullshit endurance or some kind of defensive NP, a Heroic Spirit's bullets will hurt. Note Arturia's panicked dodging when Zerkerlot had an SMG.
Billy's gun has a full rank and two plusses on Knight of Honor'd weapons.
Vanargand
So tired.....
Ushi is Yoshitsune Lily. Ie Ushiwakamaru at the time that she adored her brother
Yoshitsune proper probably hates the shit out of her brother
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I mean "tanking" sort of implied something much more than "surviving", which is what I based my opinion off of.
- Location
- Ireland
So outside of FGO's star ranks do Beowulf and Fionn stats stack up to the servants in FSN and FZ.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Y'know, it's the weirdest thing, but I can't tell if boudica's tits have jiggle physics or not. I have no idea why I fixated on that detail, but it's bugging me that I can't tell if they spent money on that for her model or not. 
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Beowulf
STR A
END A
AGI C
MAN D
LCK A
Fionn
STR B+
END B
AGI A+
MAN C
LCK C
Both are on the rather high end of stats.
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They do and so do those of other women of significant bust size.Y'know, it's the weirdest thing, but I can't tell if boudica's tits have jiggle physics or not. I have no idea why I fixated on that detail, but it's bugging me that I can't tell if they spent money on that for her model or not.
Salty
Shadow Cabal Assumptor Supreme
- Location
- Sun, Moon, Talia
- Pronouns
- I/Me
Uh, why the fuck would Yoshitsune have any reason to hate Benkei?
He died defending a bridge from enemies of Yoshitsune's, preventing them from crossing. It's so famous and so goddamn metal it's practically 3/4ths of his actual legend.