Remove ads

Type Moon General

Omegahugger said:
But aren't magi beings that increase in power as their knowledge do?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Eh, well they explore their mysteries and improve them with more practice, as you would with any skill, but the problem is that magi are fundamentally living in the past and focusing on a rapidly diminishing resource. Older magi tend to have a higher soul quality/density than newer humans, which contributes to a higher general degree of innate potential that they realize with time and practice.
 
Last edited:
Illusion said:
Lord squishy is part of the illuminati. Fight the system. :V
Real question though. Is Rama genderbent or just a ridiculously bishonen dude?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If I remember right Rama and Sita are sorta Vishnu and his Wife. Human Versions (avatar)

There was also something about Vishnu's wife being the source of his life

So cue them looking like each other. A lot

Also about Magi. Its sorta Gaia going 'Oh humans found a way through science? time to shut down the magic ways then.' if I am remembering right
 
Last edited:
An individual mage improves their own ability by acquiring knowledge of how to be a mage and discovering how to operate their magecraft.

Mages as a whole are weaker in this day and age because the underlying magical essence of the world has dropped due to humanity slowly extinguishing mysteries.

So, for instance, there could be a researcher in this day and age smarter than Paracelsus. However, Paracelsus would be more powerful on account of him operating during a time when the ambient mana and mystery of the world were higher.

Think of an individual mage as a lighter, and the world as fuel. In the beginning, there was tons of fuel! However, as time went on, that fuel has dwindled and dwindled away until now there isn't enough to pull off really big fires anymore without a lot of work put into them.

(If I'm butchering this, please, let me know)
 
Omegahugger said:
But aren't magi beings that increase in power as their knowledge do?

Of course, I got that off the wiki, so 60% chance of it not being true.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

that's magical knowledge.

What he's talking about is human knowledge as a whole.

The age of Gods had things work on a basis of "it works because a divine being decided that so there." so magecraft was super powerful as things were basically "its magic. I don't have to explain shit." People didn't care about figuring to how things worked.

The whole thing about the Age of Man is that Men seek the truth and figuring out how things work. Which means things that used to be mysterious or couldn't be scientifically explained got weaker and weaker such as magical shit hence why most magical beasts GTFOed to the "back side of the world"

That's why the 5 true magics involve things humans haven't figured out such as creating something from nothing and traveling to parallel universe.

If/when humans figure things like that out, they too will degrade in power.
 
Last edited:
Sockpuppet said:
Doesn't magecraft count as non human based knowledge?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Don't see why it should, considering that most historical magic wasn't considered in any way distinct from science. Paracelsus is a magus in the Nasuverse, but in real life he was an extraordinary scientist for whom studies of astrology and alchemy were one-and-the-same with his developments in botany and the scientific method. John Dee didn't consider his mathematical, astronomical and engineering work to be necessarily a sideline from his angel-summoning business, they were rooted in the same worldly principles. Newton saw no contradiction in a natural philosopher such as himself being an alchemist. The idea of the "super"-natural being necessarily separate from the natural is a relatively recent one.

Either all of Paracelsus' work is rooted in human knowledge, or none of it is. He didn't just do all the Hard Human Science himself and then crib notes from Hermes on the blatant magic shit while no-one was looking.

In other news, it'd be nice to have an actual source on modern human swordsmanship blowing the fuck out of the techniques of Musashi or Liechtenauer, who in turn are far more skilled than Diarmuid or Lu Bu, who in turn make Karna and Achilles look like fumbling children on steroids.

Taiga Fujimura: possibly the most skilled sword fighter ever.

Sockpuppet said:
Also didn't he already give exanples?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Examples were given of modern Servants that weren't shit. Of which Mata Hari is not one, and Edison usually isn't either.

This does not establish a trend of younger Servants having more powerful Skills and Noble Phantasms than their older counterparts. Partly this is because in terms of truly "modern" Servants - let's say 1800s onward - there aren't even enough data points to reliably establish a trend, and partly it is because the trend does not in fact exist.
 
Last edited:
Hey there boys and girls, do you know what time it is?

>No

Its time for Guess That Servant! Born out of a stupid idea that wouldn't let me go. First to guess gets the prize of smug satisfaction.

Ruler
True Name: Saint Bernard of Menthon

Statistics

Strength: C
Endurance: A
Agility: D
Mana: A
Luck: B

Class Skills
Magic Resistance: A
Owing to his unwavering piety, Ruler is all but untouchable by modern magecraft, and can only be harmed by the greatest sorcerers the world has ever known, or church sacraments.

True Name Discernment: B+
Upon an encounter with a heroic spirit, Ruler is informed of that spirit's legend and capabilities. Due to his unique circumstances, Ruler may also identify Heroic Spirits by scent. Against servants with presence concealing capabilities this skill is diminished.

Gods Resolution: B+
Ruler possesses one Command Seal for each Servant participating in the Holy Grail War. However, he may repurpose the energy of those Command Seals to fuel his Noble Phantasm, without affecting the spirit tied to that seal.

Personal Skills

Protection of the Faith: A
An absoluteness of body and soul, rooted in Ruler's unwavering devotion to god. This resolve gives Ruler protection from mental influences, keeping him from being supernaturally panicked, charmed, enraged or knocked out.

Innocent Monster: A
An unusual quirk of his legacy, instead of being summoned as a man, Ruler has instead been summoned in the body of a large dog. However, Ruler still possesses the ability to speak and enter astral form. He does not seem to mind this state of being.

Noble Phantasm

Hospice du Grand St. Bernard-Shelter in the Storm
EX Ranked Barrier Noble Phantasm

Ruler was no fighter in his life, and has no intention of becoming one unless absolutely necessary. His life was spent in service to god and the people he protected on their long journeys, nursing them back to health and leading them back to the light on the darkest, coldest nights.

Ruler may lay claim to a domain as his Hospice, affording it the greatest holy protections that one can muster. Here, Ruler may give those he has invited within food and shelter, masking their presence from the outside world for as long as they are within. The air is toasty, the food is filling, and those who seek to rest their weary bones leave with a renewed sense of energy within them.

One cannot enter without the invitation of Ruler, and of those, none can take aggressive action within his home except the master of the house. Only men of the Holy Church may act outside of this rule, though doing so risks drawing Ruler's ire.

Pennine-Passage of the Winter Wind
A Ranked Anti Army Noble Phantasm

Ruler spent his life toiling in one of the harshest environments the world has ever seen, working tirelessly to keep those traveling through it safe. For this, he was canonized as this land's Patron Saint. Now the elements he struggled endlessly with are at his disposal.

Invoking this Noble Phantasm summons a heavy blizzard, cold enough that even Heroic Spirits cannot ignore its chill without protection. Within minutes of its invocation, several feet of snow will have fallen on the ground, up to 8 feet thick in some areas. In addition to the damage of the cold, heroic spirits will find their ability to sense one another dampened, save for the light of Ruler.

Ruler can move through these blizzards with relative ease, after years of practicing. Those he finds within the snow can be led back to the safety of his Hospice, or left to the elements. Ruler prefers to only have this Noble Phantasm active for short periods of time, as not to endanger the lives of noncombatants or Masters.
 
Last edited:
I knew it was Saint Bernard as soon as I connected Holy Church Man -> Dog. The whole winter blizzard thing was a cherry on top.
 
question.

aria's a more or less poems that a magus uses to hypnotize themselves, right?

could you use a piece of music as a aria? and if so, would you have to play the whole thing, or just part of it? could you use the spell if you set it to play in the background, rather than humming or playing it yourself?
 
I'm sure it comes as a surprise to none of you that @King Prussia is correct! Please claim your smug satisfaction within the next business week!

I figured that there should be a Ruler who actually was better suited to breaking up fights and sheltering innocents. I mean Jeanne is a tank and Amakusa has his arms, sure, but they both sort of ended up decidedly not neutral.
 
Revlid said:
Don't see why it should, considering that most historical magic wasn't considered in any way distinct from science. Paracelsus is a magus in the Nasuverse, but in real life he was an extraordinary scientist for whom studies of astrology and alchemy were one-and-the-same with his developments in botany and the scientific method. John Dee didn't consider his mathematical, astronomical and engineering work to be necessarily a sideline from his angel-summoning business, they were rooted in the same worldly principles. Newton saw no contradiction in a natural philosopher such as himself being an alchemist. The idea of the "super"-natural being necessarily separate from the natural is a relatively recent one.

Either all of Paracelsus' work is rooted in human knowledge, or none of it is. He didn't just do all the Hard Human Science himself and then crib notes from Hermes on the blatant magic shit while no-one was looking.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But magecraft in Nasuverse is inherently rooted in the old, the thaumatrugical systems that are older are more 'solidified' vs. the more modern ones that are still wonky. But, those newer ones can do shit that the older ones might not be able to, because they're built differently and utilize different concepts. Even then, Chaldea's accomplishments are something made via modern magecraft merged with science and has accomplished something that only a select few could utilize; clairvoyance capable of viewing from the past through the present and arguably even the future. That shit's Merlin-tier.

The reason magecraft's regarded in a 'decline' is because it's always been viewed through the lens of transitioning from old to new; Mahoyo describes it best with Alice, the old style magus, being compared to an artisan craftsman while Aoko, the modern magus, is compared to an assembly line. The artisan makes the better quality product, but the assembly line simply outperforms in all other aspects.

Revlid said:
Examples were given of modern Servants that weren't shit. Of which Mata Hari is not one, and Edison usually isn't either.

This does not establish a trend of younger Servants having more powerful Skills and Noble Phantasms than their older counterparts. Partly this is because in terms of truly "modern" Servants - let's say 1800s onward - there aren't even enough data points to reliably establish a trend, and partly it is because the trend does not in fact exist.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, but there are enough to reinforce a theme in Nasu's work; that of the present and future overcoming and surpassing the past that came before it. Tesla, Edison, Nobunaga, Jack the Ripper, even Li Shuwen and Blavatsky are respectable in their own right; though they lack the inherent age and mystery of older Heroic Spirits, their Noble Phantasms and Skill make up for those deficiencies and put them on the level with said older heroes. What heroes of old did with mystery and raw force, modern era heroes accomplish through knowledge and skill.

Even Saber admits in her GO interlude that Heroic Spirits exist as a benchmark for humanity to surpass and overcome and that they do what they can to help people reach for that goal.
 
cthulhu fartagn said:
question.

aria's a more or less poems that a magus uses to hypnotize themselves, right?

could you use a piece of music as a aria? and if so, would you have to play the whole thing, or just part of it? could you use the spell if you set it to play in the background, rather than humming or playing it yourself?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
By my understanding, yes.

As long as it puts you in the state of mind to perform Magecraft, your 'aria' could probably be anything.

I have no idea how this interacts with line counts and High-Speed Incantations though.
 
Omegahugger said:
But aren't magi beings that increase in power as their knowledge do?

Of course, I got that off the wiki, so 60% chance of it not being true.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If I recall correctly, the effectiveness of a Mystery literally depends on how mysterious it is. So the more well-known a Mystery becomes, the more its overall power (quantity & quality) decreases.

So, while a Magi might know how to turn a gallon of pure-water in a Excaliblaster, if they have to work with a liter of shit-water then they might not even have a Excalipewpew.
 
Last edited:
LupineVolt said:
Hey there boys and girls, do you know what time it is?

>No

Its time for Guess That Servant! Born out of a stupid idea that wouldn't let me go. First to guess gets the prize of smug satisfaction.

Ruler
True Name: Saint Bernard of Menthon

Statistics

Strength: C
Endurance: A
Agility: D
Mana: A
Luck: B

Class Skills
Magic Resistance: A
Owing to his unwavering piety, Ruler is all but untouchable by modern magecraft, and can only be harmed by the greatest sorcerers the world has ever known, or church sacraments.

True Name Discernment: B+
Upon an encounter with a heroic spirit, Ruler is informed of that spirit's legend and capabilities. Due to his unique circumstances, Ruler may also identify Heroic Spirits by scent. Against servants with presence concealing capabilities this skill is diminished.

Gods Resolution: B+
Ruler possesses one Command Seal for each Servant participating in the Holy Grail War. However, he may repurpose the energy of those Command Seals to fuel his Noble Phantasm, without affecting the spirit tied to that seal.

Personal Skills

Protection of the Faith: A
An absoluteness of body and soul, rooted in Ruler's unwavering devotion to god. This resolve gives Ruler protection from mental influences, keeping him from being supernaturally panicked, charmed, enraged or knocked out.

Innocent Monster: A
An unusual quirk of his legacy, instead of being summoned as a man, Ruler has instead been summoned in the body of a large dog. However, Ruler still possesses the ability to speak and enter astral form. He does not seem to mind this state of being.

Noble Phantasm

Hospice du Grand St. Bernard-Shelter in the Storm
EX Ranked Barrier Noble Phantasm

Ruler was no fighter in his life, and has no intention of becoming one unless absolutely necessary. His life was spent in service to god and the people he protected on their long journeys, nursing them back to health and leading them back to the light on the darkest, coldest nights.

Ruler may lay claim to a domain as his Hospice, affording it the greatest holy protections that one can muster. Here, Ruler may give those he has invited within food and shelter, masking their presence from the outside world for as long as they are within. The air is toasty, the food is filling, and those who seek to rest their weary bones leave with a renewed sense of energy within them.

One cannot enter without the invitation of Ruler, and of those, none can take aggressive action within his home except the master of the house. Only men of the Holy Church may act outside of this rule, though doing so risks drawing Ruler's ire.

Pennine-Passage of the Winter Wind
A Ranked Anti Army Noble Phantasm

Ruler spent his life toiling in one of the harshest environments the world has ever seen, working tirelessly to keep those traveling through it safe. For this, he was canonized as this land's Patron Saint. Now the elements he struggled endlessly with are at his disposal.

Invoking this Noble Phantasm summons a heavy blizzard, cold enough that even Heroic Spirits cannot ignore its chill without protection. Within minutes of its invocation, several feet of snow will have fallen on the ground, up to 8 feet thick in some areas. In addition to the damage of the cold, heroic spirits will find their ability to sense one another dampened, save for the light of Ruler.

Ruler can move through these blizzards with relative ease, after years of practicing. Those he finds within the snow can be led back to the safety of his Hospice, or left to the elements. Ruler prefers to only have this Noble Phantasm active for short periods of time, as not to endanger the lives of noncombatants or Masters.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Fluffiest servant ever
 
EnderofWorlds said:
Even Saber admits in her GO interlude that Heroic Spirits exist as a benchmark for humanity to surpass and overcome and that they do what they can to help people reach for that goal.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm sorry, I only listen to real Kings like Iskander and Gilgamesh, whose opinions of modern humanity are "I'm gonna conquer the shit out of'em" and "They all suck", respectively.
 
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top