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Type Moon General

Beast Nero has been foreshadowed since forever, it would be silly to not include it.

...Which is totally possible if we go the Manaka route.
 
Who? said:
So, me and @UmbraofChaos were talking on Discord, and we were wondering about Lostbelt 6, and we wondered "hey, what could cause a Fantasy Tree to catch on fucking fire". My first thought was Arthur's fourteen-year old stalker.
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Oooorrr Avenger Boudica deploying her Ash Layer NP.

Don't lie, that'd be fun.
 
Notes on Olympus

This will be an extremely brief coverage of the notable bits and pieces that stood out to me in Olympus. Being as most everything is by this point probably already common knowledge, I would presume that it's not incredibly meaningful for me to put out such a thing. Nevertheless, I figured that it might be worthwhile to have a kind of post-release debrief.

The reason for the delay with this: For the past week or so, I've been working on a sort of summary / speedtrans of the Lostbelt plot, for release to Discord. As some of you might be aware, my posts have since been compiled and released to Reddit by @RagnoStrangeros , with permission. As @RegisNex1232 is in the process of revising them for release, I'll leave it to him to post it here whenever he happens to finish.

That said, why do I describe this as an "extremely brief" coverage? That would be on account that the majority of the Lostbelt was in fact a solid block of lore dump text. It's extremely unlikely that I'd be able to cover all of it within the scope of this post — and so, I'm not even going to try.

The notes, then:
  • The 1st War / Titanomachia:

    In another Universe that come to annihilation, a certain alien race fabricated about a star a Dyson sphere that came to be known as Chaos. It was intended as an ark to permit that the species could settle upon another planet, but owing to circumstances unspecified at a point unknown, the aliens perished, and Chaos continued its voyage uninhabited. Thereon, it at some point identified a "boundary" of some sort — on the other side of which was the Universal context that the Earth existed within. In the plot of the Lostbelt, Aphrodite makes mention of something called the Tannhauser Boundary. It's possible that the boundary that Chaos discovered is what she was referring to.

    Consuming about 97% of its functionality, Chaos was able to pass a relatively small fleet of ships through this boundary. Said fleet comprised of ships subsequently referred to in the collective as the Titans, under the leadership of the flagship Chronos.

    Under circumstances unknown, several ships were divided forth from Chronos, and for reasons unknown mounted a rebellion against the Titan fleet. This was the event referred to as the Titanomachia — the 1st War or "machia" to occurred as of the mythological tradition of Greece. In its aftermath, the Titans were vanquished, and the victorious rebels continued on their way across the Universe under the leadership of the flagship Zeus.

    Thereon — tens of thousands of years since the initial fleet entered the Universe — the flagship that came later to be designated as Zeus was made aware of the planet Earth — a 78% match for the "landing conditions" that would mark a planet viable for colonization, per the body of directives writ within his being. Being as the functionalities of the fleet had eroded or otherwise become impaired in the course of their long voyage, and continuing onward was in any case unrealistic, it was decided that the ships would descend to the Earth.

    The location of their descent corresponds to what is now the center of the Atlantic — perhaps the continent of Atlantis; though whether or not a continent in the traditional sense in fact existed isn't known. Holmes poses that, perhaps, rather than a geological formation, it was in fact an artificial structure comprised of the ships of Olympus — but whether or not this was in fact the case was never confirmed. Whatever the case, the ships of the Olympus fleet here encountered the prehistoric human race, and came to be worshiped in the capacity of gods. The humans granted them names and faith, and in symbiosis, the Gods provided the fruits of civilization to the prehistoric humans.

  • The 2nd War / Leukosmachia:

    The White War; the war against the White Annihilation. 14,000 years ago, Sefar invaded the Earth. In the Greater History, the Gods of Grecia / Atlantis were at this point vanquished, and consequently rendered as Divine Spirits (神霊, shinrei); losing the mechanical corpora that they bore in their capacity as ships — referred to as True Corpora (真体, shintai); pronounced as Aletheia. Thereafter, the civilization of Atlantis was annihilated, and its remnants relocated eastward, to what is now Greece.

    It would seem that this loss was in fact on account that the Gods abided by the boundaries of their respective domains / Authorities (権能, kennou), rather than making use of their full capabilities as a collective — theoretically permitted by a Functionality (機能, kinou) that would render the temporary combination of their Aletheia into a single "omnipotent" being.

    Within the context of the Lostbelt of Olympus, Zeus was able to bring himself to exceed the boundaries of his domain — effectively, violating the domains of the other ships as to forcibly conscript them unto a combination at his command. In this state, the Gods of Olympus were able to instantaneously defeat Sefar, without sustaining any damage whatsoever.

    This was the inciting incident that defined the divergence of the Lostbelt. In the aftermath, Zeus obtained "omnipotence"; a permanent command over the majority of the Functionalities / Authorities that belonged of the domains of the other Gods. For his unilateral violation of boundaries, however, he was by the Gods ostracized, even as he solidified his position as their absolute leader.

  • The 3rd War / Gigantomachia:

    Approximately 3,500 years ago, the 2nd and final machia as of the Greater History. Bunrei apparently left behind by Sefar rose as an entity (or entities?)referred to as the Gigas. In the Greater History, the Divine Spirits of Grecia were assisted by the Heroes of Man as to quell the threat; and it's said that it was in this war that Heracles truly made his mark.

    Comparatively, as of the Lostbelt of Olympus, the Gods of Grecia had not become as Divine Spirits. With their Aletheia intact, their decimation of the Gigas was a one-sided affair, and humans weren't at all involved.

  • The 4th War / Olympiamachia:

    The final machia that occurred as of the Lostbelt of Olympus, which occurred several thousand years ago; at some point subsequent to the Gigantomachia.

    On the subject of whether to impose upon the humans their absolute rule, or to walk at their side, the Gods of Olympus divided to two factions: The Administration Faction, comprised of Zeus, Demeter, Aphrodite, Hera, Artemis, and Poseidon; and the Coexistence Faction, comprised of Athena, Hades, Apollon, Hestia, Ares, and Hephaistos. The humans that belonged of the cults of those Gods that joined unto the Coexistence faction took part in the war in some some capacity.

    More accurately, the Administration Faction originally comprised of Zeus alone, but by the wielding of his omnipotence, he subjugated the will of at least Demeter, Aphrodite, Hera, and Artemis.

    Poseidon was originally of the Administration Faction, but was somehow able to defect to the side of the Coexistence Faction later on in the conflict — as a Trojan horse / double agent? It isn't certain.

    At some point, on account that Hades was of the same series of ships as Zeus; originally of the same standing, he was able to resist Zeus enough so as to self-detonate — denying Zeus access to the parts of his domain without the reach of "omnipotence."

    Athena, Apollon, Hestia, and Ares were killed as of the outcome of the war, and whatever wreckage Zeus didn't appropriate to further extend his Functionalities was scattered to the seas of Atlantis. In some cases, their minds survived in a reduced form as of Terminal Shrines scattered across the various islands the wreckage formed.

    Comparatively, Poseidon survived, but his mind was overwritten as to render him an automated defense mechanism for the Seas of Atlantis.

    Hephaistos survived, but was re-situated in the underpinnings of the City of Olympus as a server to automate the maintenance of the metropolis. His mind was left intact, but his body was eliminated. Prometheus isn't counted amongst the Twelve Gods of Olympus, but he was likewise eliminated on account of association with the Coexistence — merged with Hephaistos. Technically speaking, the server that houses their merged minds once belonged of Prometheus alone.

    On the side of the Administration Faction, Demeter originally voiced complaint against Zeus' objectives. However, once her will was dominated by Zeus, he forced her to kill her own daughter Persephone, who had sided with the Hades and the Coexistence Faction. This act drove her to insanity, and might've been the immediate cause of Hades' suicide.

    Aphrodite's personality was once filled with love, but at some point during the war — perhaps after the apparent death of Hephaistos — Zeus overwrote her mind, eliminating this entire aspect of her being.

    Hera was (mostly) killed as of the outcome of the war. The embers of her existence were by Zeus preserved, until such a time that he was able to summon Europa, a Heroic Spirit of the Greater History — implanting her with said fragments, and thereby rendering her as a demigod.

    With the defeat of the Coexistence Faction, their human subordinates were for the most part exiled to the Seas of Atlantis — becoming as the ancestors of Atlantis' current inhabitants. Amongst ones that somehow remained in Olympus were the twins Makarios and Adele.

    Like Prometheus, the Dioscuroi aren't counted amongst the Twelve Gods of Olympus. Surviving the Olympiamachia intact, they sided with Zeus against the Coexistence Faction during active hostilities, and contributed significantly to the slaughter of the Coexistence Faction's human subordinates — inclusive of Makarios and Adele's parents.

    To resummarize, then, as of the outcome of the Olympiamachia, the surviving Gods were Zeus, Demeter, Aphrodite, the Dioscuroi, Artemis, and Poseidon — where "survival" indicates that they emerged from the war with their Aletheia intact. Artemis and Poseidon were situated in Atlantis as defenders of the entrance unto Olympus, while the remainder assisted Zeus in the management of the City of Olympus. Hera — possibly reduced to a Divine Spirit — was merged unto Europa. Prometheus-Hephaistos survived as a machine intelligence — not quite a God, but still capable of wielding Functionality / Authority as of Divine standing.

  • The Manifestation of the Tree of Fantasy:

    Likely around the beginning of 2018, Kirschtaria Wodime appeared in Olympus along with the Tree of Fantasy, and entered into a contract with Zeus. At this time, he killed the Dioscuroi, and in the immediate aftermath contracted the Divine Spirit that they became as one of his three Servants.

    The agreement between Wodime and Zeus forged a collaboration as to preserve and cultivate of the Tree, such that it could safely be brought to bloom. Though the event of the bloom was as a condition to the Alien God's descent, their mutual understanding entailed that the right to utilize the resources of the tree could be decided between them at the very last moment.

    Zeus' interest in the Tree was primarily in the recognition that it was a vast energy resource. Though he expressed on several occasions a confidence that he could strike down the Alien God, it would seem that he'd privately made up his mind to acquire the energy of the tree to the purpose of rendering the Interstellar City of Olympus as a functional space colony.

    Meanwhile, Kirschtaria had summoned the Titan Atlas as one amongst his Servants — directly unto the hollow of the Tree of Fantasy. His plan, comparatively, was to grant unto Atlas the resources that the Tree had aggregated as to render the corporeal manifestation of the Alien God — preempting the Alien God, and commandeering the energy as to render the apotheosis of Man.

    Thereafter, Zeus and Kirschtaria were despite their differences engaged in a forthright friendship — even as good-naturedly, they in essence each plotted the elimination of the opposing party as to secure the sole right to make use of the Tree.

  • Recent History:

    An unspecified amount of time prior to Chaldea's arrival within the Lostbelt, the encroachment of the Lostbelt across the surface of the Earth evoked of the Counter Force the deployment of numerous Servants to the elimination of the Tree of Fantasy. The majority of these were eliminated by the army that Odysseus assembled as of the Seas of Atlantis, but some of them were able to slip through, and enter unto the City of Olympus.

    At the very least, the party that arrived in Olympus comprised of Tesla, Edison, Helena, Raikou, Mordred, Fran, Kintoki, Lancer Alter, and Caligula — possibly, Medea Lily as well.

    Somehow making contact with the human remnants of the Coexistence Faction, they formed a guerilla force designated as the Godbreakers Alliance; making use of the undercity of Olympus — the former domain of Hades, beyond Zeus' reach — as to conduct covert operations. Further, they were contacted by an organization called the Backers, who agreed to supply them with resources and technology; in reality, Europa and Prometheus-Hephaistos, operating behind the scenes to undermine Zeus.

    The plan of the Alliance entailed the development of assorted thaumaturgical technology as to render the slaying of the Gods.

    In more detail, though the True Corpora of the Gods are fabricated of the Divine Steel / Adamas / Adamant nanomachines referred to as the Theos Klironomia, said nanomachines are in fact incapable of self-direction or self-replication — completely slaved to the central processing units of the Gods, termed as Divine Cores. Thus, in theory, exposure and destruction of a Divine Core can slay a God. To this end, the Alliance developed a semi-portable beam canon as to compromise a God's armor.

    Secondarily, they developed a ritual referred to as the Grand Summoning Protocol — comprised of seven synchronized summoning arrays situated around the City of Olympus. The catalyst by which to initiate the ritual was left to the development of Prometheus-Hephaistos. The ultimate function of the spell protocol was to enact the summoning of a Grand Servant.

    Third, Caligula — somehow altered after being struck by a non-standard projectile shot by Artemis in Atlantis — was liberated from his insanity. His Noble Phantasm subsequently came to behave as an expression of Artemis' Divine Authority over mental interference. The Alliance elected to place him in cryofreeze to preserve him as an asset until their engagement against Aphrodite.

    Fourth, the Grand Summoning Array could be activated in an incomplete capacity as to independently materialize a different expression of Kintoki's Noble Phantasm as a Rider — the Great Noble Phantasm (大宝具, dai-hougu), Settsu-Shiki Oo-Guzoku Kumano (摂津式大具足・熊野); also referred to as the Great Golden Bear. The form that the Noble Phantasm takes is as a giant robot in the form of samurai armor. Note that "independent" materialization refers to the matter that Kintoki himself doesn't need to be present or alive for the Noble Phantasm to manifest.

    Unfortunately, as the Alliance was in the process of instituting the arrays of the Grand Summoning, they were discovered by the Gods of Olympus and eliminated. Raikou, Kintoki, Mordred, and Fran were forced to kill each other by the mental interference of Aphrodite, and the remaining Servants are implied to have been eliminated by Demeter. Any human collaborators not caught up in the attacks of the two Goddesses were with the exception of Makarios and Adele slaughtered by the Dioscuroi, acting as Kirschtaria's Servant.

    Anticipating the circumstance of their elimination, however, the Alliance left within their underground safehouse an AI with the capability of expressing the the personality patterns of the Servants within their organization. Said safehouse was left to the care of Makarios and Adele, the sole survivors. It seems that the Alliance believed that Chaldea would arrive to pick up where they left off.

    With that, we come to the conflict of the Lostbelt plot — what could be referred to as the 5th War?

  • The City of Olympus:

    The disc-shaped metropolis at the base of the overall structure houses ten million humans at the very least. The eastern districts are 'a city of art'; while the downtown at city center is occupied by the Temple District, where a large number of shrines are situated. All shrines in the city are referred to as Subordinate Temples.

    There's an areas that appears to be a nature preserves to the west of city limits, but its use isn't entirely clear. No human citizens appear in these locations. Makarios and Adele state at one point that citizens of Olympus are forbidden from exiting the city, but it isn't certain if they're excluded entry from the nature reserve.

    In all areas above ground, Zeus is capable of aggregating and accurately interpreting verbal conversation for purposes of surveillance.

    Beneath the surface of the city is the Underground Structural Territory of Tartarus — the former domain of Hades. Being as Hades was originally a ship of the same series and the same approximate standing as Zeus, Zeus cannot conduct surveillance in the majority of the undercity, aside from areas of shallow depth in the downtown area. The purpose of Tartarus was originally as to facilitate the maintenance of the public works of the city — and as such, the safehouse of the Godbreakers Alliance was originally something akin to a large-scale maintenance elevator.

    However, it's given that the structure of Tartarus actually comprises of the fallen of the Titanomachia and the Olympiamachia; the mana / energy acquired of the Gigas at the end of the Gigantomachia. Ergo, the Dioscuroi refer to Tartatus as "a country of the dead."

    Immediate above the city is the Great Orbital Temple (軌道大神殿, kidou dai-shinden), Olympus-Dodona, which houses the living Gods tasked with the management of the city — namely, Zeus, Aphrodite, and Demeter. Europa and the Dioscuroi also live here.

    The structure that surrounds Olympus-Dodona is referred to as the Divine Vessel Annulus (神器環状体), Chronos Crown. Inherited by Zeus from the flagship Chronos, it appears to be utilized to purpose of managing or assisting in the management of the assorted Functionalities / Authorities that comprise Zeus' so-called omnipotence.

    The crystalline mountain range above the city are the energy source that sustains the Gods. The Gods are remotely connected with the mountains via a sort of wireless network referred to as the Divine-Make Leylines (神造霊脈, shinzou reimyaku). It's given that the amount of energy that they can provide is limitless — but as Zeus' primary interest in the Tree of Fantasy is in its use as an energy resource, we can maybe surmise that the energy stored in the crystalline mountains isn't in fact infinite.

    The palace occupied by Kirschtaria is connected by a pathway to the Olympus-Dodona. It appears that the Tree of Fantasy Magellan takes root here.

  • The Formal Designations of the Gods:

    星間航行物資生産艦デメテル
    Interstellar Travel Resource Manufactury Vessel, Demeter

    知性体教導大型端末・電子情報戦型攻撃機アフロディーテ
    Large-Scale Sapients Education Terminal / Electronic Data Warfare Type Attack Vessel, Aphrodite

    星間戦闘用殲滅型機動要塞・旗艦ゼウス
    Interstellar Combat-Purpose Annihilation Type Mobile Fortress, Flagship Zeus

    星間航行用超巨大母艦・天球型時空要塞カオス
    Interstellar Navigation-Purpose Ultra-Massive Carrier / Celestial Sphere Type Space-Time Fortress, Chaos

    As a bonus, the Storm Border's designation —

    次元境界穿孔艦ストーム・ボーダー
    Dimensional Boundary Perforation Vessel, Storm Border

    ... that moment when you remember that Triton is in fact a Greek god.

  • Ophelia's Theory of Lostbelts:

    Per previous knowledge of culled timelines, the period of time between a particular timeline's designation for culling and the point of its elimination is approximately a century at most — arriving as of the subsequent imposition of a Quantum Time-Lock. For example, let's suppose that the Time-Locks preceding present day were imposed in the year 1900 and the year 2000 respectively. If in this scenario, a particular timeline were flagged for culling as of 1917, the culling would be formally imposed as of the year 2000. Culling is exactly what it sounds like; the timeline ceases to be, and the resources invested in its iteration are reclaimed.

    That being the case, supposing that the Russian Lostbelt were originally a timeline designated for culling in 1570, it would've been eliminated by 1670 at latest — being as we haven't any indication of the precise year upon which Time-Locks fall. Ergo, given established QTL mechanics, it's impossible that the Lostbelt could have actually existed as a viable timeline between the years of 1670 and 2018 — when the local Tree of Fantasy manifested within.

    Late in the story, Kadoc runs across a voice report delivered to Kirschtaria by Ophelia, wherein she offers a theory to account for the unknowns pertaining to Lostbelt mechanics.

    In brief, Ophelia believes that subsequent to culling, the timelines that are used as the basis of the Lostbelts legitimately ceased to exist.

    However, as of the institution of the Trees of Fantasy, specific culled timelines were chosen — virtually simulated from their point of culling unto present day as of the resources within the Tree; and then iterated without, unto the Tree's environs. To put it simply, the contents of the Lostbelts are abstractly akin to Emiya Shirou's Projections — rendering into the real world the product of a simulated history.

    Ophelia wonders what the Alien God is, that it's able to allow the Gods to wield their Authorities as of Surface in modernity — when, according to everything she knows, that shouldn't be possible.

  • The Time Sequence of Lostbelt Iteration:

    Kadoc discovers on Kirschtaria's meeting room terminal a text file written by an unknown author. Said file claims the possibility that it wasn't the Trees that rendered the Tabula Rasa. Rather, the Tabula Rasa was rendered first, and then the Trees were established thereafter.

    It's established later on in the plot that that the Trees themselves are intended to become as potential vessels to the Alien God's incarnation. The issue is, it isn't clear as to why the Alien God went through the trouble of actually creating the contents of the Lostbelts; for purposes of practicality, simply creating the Trees themselves should be sufficient, rather than rendering an entire environment in the vicinity of the Tree, and then populating it with Gods and humans.

    Observing that the Alien God would only have preemptively attacked Chaldea if it had already conducted an investigation of humans, Kadoc wonders if humans are somehow necessary to the Alien Gods' plans.
I'll leave it there for now. If I feel up to it, I'll see if I can post another bit on things not covered here.
 
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A few questions I want to pose to you guys,

First, would a mage, who later becomes a dead apostle, who utilises Necromancy and specialises in phylactery creation and spirit manipulation be too close to the Third True Magic?

So the idea goes like this, a mage coming from a long line of necromancy specialists begins utilising his own bones as the phylactery for the spirits he contains. His mage craft mainly concerns creating phylacteries and then manipulating the spirits contained within them to do his bidding. However, he suffers from FOP, from which he first used to benefit himself by increasing his number of spirits, but later become to much of a problem as important parts began to ossify. Due to this, he uses his own skull to become a phylactery for himself, turning himself into a Dead Apostle, as he needs to take in extra magical energy, as his own is not enough to sustain his body and keep all the spirits within his form from trying to rip him, and each other, apart.

Second, if within the world of fate, a B is quantity is around 20, assuming that like NP's, magic circuits use B as the average level qualification, what would a B in quality be in Prana quantity per circuit.

Finally, since most gods we've interacted with so far all have some form of Divine Core, which from my understanding function in the same way as a Magic Core, just a level up, would Demi-Gods, like Cu, Heracles and so forth gain something like that. I'm using the fact that people having dragon blood is enough for a Magical Core as a basis for this question.
 
Ars Longinus said:
phylacteries
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The Jewish prayer box ?
Kidding aside, if you want to go this way, find another name than phylactery.

Also, we already have a mage that's basically what you're describing (minus the Necromancy part), he's called Zouken.

Also no, it's not close to True Magic, so knock yourself out.

Ars Longinus said:
Second, if within the world of fate, a B is quantity is around 20, assuming that like NP's, magic circuits use B as the average level qualification, what would a B in quality be in Prana quantity per circuit.
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Considering pretty much everytime numbers are used in relation to Magical Energy quantity, they're always compared to one thing or another, so the scale is always different, finding a precise number seems like a somewhat futile (or otherwise incredibly tedious) endeavour to me.

Ars Longinus said:
would Demi-Gods, like Cu, Heracles and so forth gain something like that.
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If they become gods and are summoned as such, then sure. But considering summoning gods is usually not possible, it's probably never gonna happen.

Also I'm not sure Divine Cores and Magic Cores are so directly related.
 
Ars Longinus said:
First, would a mage, who later becomes a dead apostle, who utilises Necromancy and specialises in phylactery creation and spirit manipulation be too close to the Third True Magic?
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No. The Third True Magic is basically liberating your soul from needing a body (phylactery still counts as bodies) and becoming an immortal energy being with infinite energy. Not "so much energy it might as well be endless" but literally thermodynamics breaking infinite energy.

Ars Longinus said:
he uses his own skull to become a phylactery for himself, turning himself into a Dead Apostle
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You need the blood of a DA to turn yourself into a DA. You need to go out of your way to obtain blood of a DA to become one yourself, which is dangerous and will attract the wrong attention. And that's not going to solve the energy problem as DAs are beings that need to eat other people to survive to begin with.

Ars Longinus said:
Second, if within the world of fate, a B is quantity is around 20, assuming that like NP's, magic circuits use B as the average level qualification, what would a B in quality be in Prana quantity per circuit.
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See commenter above.

Ars Longinus said:
Finally, since most gods we've interacted with so far all have some form of Divine Core, which from my understanding function in the same way as a Magic Core, just a level up, would Demi-Gods, like Cu, Heracles and so forth gain something like that. I'm using the fact that people having dragon blood is enough for a Magical Core as a basis for this question.
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It works kinda like fanon magic cores, but no, demigods don't get one, only straight up gods get Divine Cores. The only exception is Caenis but she's borrowing Poseidon's Divine Core and blessings as part of her legend. For Dragons I'm not really sure how it works. Artoria was basically genetically enginered into having a Dragon Core from birth, while with Siegfried, Sigurd and Sieg-kun turning into Fafnir is a feature of Fafnir and the cursed treasure specifically.
 
Ars Longinus said:
Finally, since most gods we've interacted with so far all have some form of Divine Core, which from my understanding function in the same way as a Magic Core, just a level up, would Demi-Gods, like Cu, Heracles and so forth gain something like that. I'm using the fact that people having dragon blood is enough for a Magical Core as a basis for this question.
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"Magical Cores" aren't really a thing. There are the Servants' Spiritual Cores, the Cores of dragons, and the Divine Cores of Gods. Certain other inhuman existences may have Cores as well.
Seihai-kun said:
You need the blood of a DA to turn yourself into a DA. You need to go out of your way to obtain blood of a DA to become one yourself, which is dangerous and will attract the wrong attention. And that's not going to solve the energy problem as DAs are beings that need to eat other people to survive to begin with.
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Technically, given the circumstances of Shirley, and the description of Nrvnqsr as "one who became a Dead Apostle through magecraft," it isn't really certain that the blood of a Dead Apostle is absolutely required.
 
Squirtodyle said:
Reminder that Caeneus is a guy :V
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He/She can be whatever he/she wants.

...It is said that Caenis turned into a "bird with golden wings" when she died.
While her current manifestation has been endowed with that anecdote in the form of her Noble Phantasm, it is possible for the special trait of "freely transforming one's own flesh" contained within to go out of control.
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Shard_486 said:
He/She can be whatever he/she wants.



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And he wants to be Caeneus, who is a dude, if you look at his lines.

The part of the profile you quoted is even specifically about how a lack of control over a transformation NP caused him to have a female body, not that he's willingly using it.

EDIT: @Ars Longinus I'm curious why you found that funny.
 
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Caenis profile Bond 4
○Divine Core of the Sea God B
Originally, the Heroic Spirit Caenis didn't possess a Divine Core, but the sea god Poseidon granted this Spirit Origin his special favour.
As a rare exemption, having been summoned as a Servant, Caenis possesses a pseudo-Divine Core, granting her the spiritual rank of a Divine Spirit and not that of a Heroic Spirit.
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It's not even a real Divine Core but a pseudo-Divine Core. Again, demigods get a Divinity skill while actual gods get a Divine Core.
 
Just a question about the servant stats.

So, if the master is the one providing the servants magical energy, what does the Mana stat even effect? Is it the total magical energy they can contain, or what? I've been a fan of this franchise for a while, and this is one of the only more basic concepts that still confuses me. Strength, Endurance, Agility and NP make sense, and Luck as well, for as much as luck can, but Mana?
 
Ars Longinus said:
Just a question about the servant stats.

So, if the master is the one providing the servants magical energy, what does the Mana stat even effect? Is it the total magical energy they can contain, or what? I've been a fan of this franchise for a while, and this is one of the only more basic concepts that still confuses me. Strength, Endurance, Agility and NP make sense, and Luck as well, for as much as luck can, but Mana?
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That and also effeciency it seems.
 
Seihai-kun said:
You need the blood of a DA to turn yourself into a DA. You need to go out of your way to obtain blood of a DA to become one yourself, which is dangerous and will attract the wrong attention. And that's not going to solve the energy problem as DAs are beings that need to eat other people to survive to begin with.
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fallacies said:
Technically, given the circumstances of Shirley, and the description of Nrvnqsr as "one who became a Dead Apostle through magecraft," it isn't really certain that the blood of a Dead Apostle is absolutely required.
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To elaborate on this, it seems that Dead Apostle is more of a "duck-type", a label attached to anyone who satisfies particular traits (walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, as it were.)

Or rather, a large class of attempts to make yourself immortal in the Nasuverse all end up with the same sort of downside: you sorta-kinda made it work, but now the natural order rejects you, so the sun burns and you need to consume other living entities to survive. (There's presumably also more to it than that, or all obligate carnivores would qualify for the last point, but... well, I think it's clear that when a DA is consuming other entities, they're consuming more than just their energy.)

Ars Longinus said:
Just a question about the servant stats.

So, if the master is the one providing the servants magical energy, what does the Mana stat even effect? Is it the total magical energy they can contain, or what? I've been a fan of this franchise for a while, and this is one of the only more basic concepts that still confuses me. Strength, Endurance, Agility and NP make sense, and Luck as well, for as much as luck can, but Mana?
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It seems like that isn't actually true in all cases -- or at least, I've heard that Saber can in fact actually get her magical core started?

In general, note that Saber, in particular, actually does throw out orders of magnitude more energy than Shirou can provide. It seems like Servants are catalytic in some sense; you have to front some of the bill, but the output you get is way, way more than you put in.

Somewhat relatedly, note that the thing that keeps Servants in the world isn't just prana, it's having an anchor. You need an anchor as well as prana, so having a high Mana stat won't save you from vanishing when your Master dies unless you also have Independent Action.
 
Ars Longinus said:
Just a question about the servant stats.

So, if the master is the one providing the servants magical energy, what does the Mana stat even effect? Is it the total magical energy they can contain, or what? I've been a fan of this franchise for a while, and this is one of the only more basic concepts that still confuses me. Strength, Endurance, Agility and NP make sense, and Luck as well, for as much as luck can, but Mana?
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I'd assume it would be the equivalent of capacity, their own mana circuits(as they do have them), and presumably quality and quantity. I'm uncertain if it matches the scale of Magi in regards of circuits. But, barring those with Dragon Cores or Blood, their own circuits aren't enough to keep them manfiest.
 
Stop: Do Not Misgender
  • Staff Post
    • A Nation's Virtue said:
    *only wanted to be a guy because guys can't be raped according to her logic*
    *not because of actual gender dysphoria*
    That is a spicy take and I'm not sure that's a hill you want to die on for trans representation in the game.
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    do not misgender
    You can interrogate the writing of a presented-tran
     
  • Staff Post
    • Caenus attitude pretty much screams of a victim that wants to become the abuser once ya look at it

    Since ya know they run around screaming how they are an awesome divine spirit and how dare the pathetic mortals resist and how they'll rape Anastasia/Ophelia for shits and giggles and yada yada. Also you know having Poseidon's Authority as their main gimmick

    There's also the whole 'transform me into a man and grant me blessings so I will never be humiliated like this again'
     
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    Vanargand said:
    Caenus attitude pretty much screams of a victim that wants to become the abuser once ya look at it

    Since ya know they run around screaming how they are an awesome divine spirit and how dare the pathetic mortals resist and how they'll rape Anastasia/Ophelia for shits and giggles and yada yada. Also you know having Poseidon's Authority as their main gimmick

    There's also the whole 'transform me into a man and grant me blessings so I will never be humiliated like this again'
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    You've made this observation a million times, and it's as irrelevant to any conversation now as it was back when you first patted yourself on the back for making it.

    And you keep acting like this characterization has any positive merit to it, like it isn't just another take on Scheherazade in Agartha, which everyone but the most staunch, moronic contrarians agrees was already fucking terrible. It's not deep and it's not unique, even within Fate/Grand Order itself.
     
    FeigningGrey said:
    You've made this observation a million times, and it's as irrelevant to any conversation now as it was back when you first patted yourself on the back for making it.

    And you keep acting like this characterization has any positive merit to it, like it isn't just another take on Scheherazade in Agartha, which everyone but the most staunch, moronic contrarians agrees was already fucking terrible. It's not deep and it's not unique, even within Fate/Grand Order itself.
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    I am just saying how the character acts. I am not saying if its a good or bad take of it

    Lots of assumptions there pal. And come on have you seen how many pages this thread has? Shit repeats eventually no reason for getting salty over it
     
    Vanargand said:
    Caenus attitude pretty much screams of a victim that wants to become the abuser once ya look at it

    Since ya know they run around screaming how they are an awesome divine spirit and how dare the pathetic mortals resist and how they'll rape Anastasia/Ophelia for shits and giggles and yada yada. Also you know having Poseidon's Authority as their main gimmick

    There's also the whole 'transform me into a man and grant me blessings so I will never be humiliated like this again'
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    I mean, the "abuse victim becomes an abuser" may be true, but that doesn't really contradict how Caneus appeared more comfortable as a man, regarldless of initial reasons given. I don't really see anything wrong with seeing Caneus as trans.
     
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