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Type Moon General

EnderofWorlds said:
Kung-fu still more technique than whatever Beowulf has. A+++ Martial Arts, yo.
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Eh. That's just exoticism. Western people tend toward this weird idea that their culture's historical fighting styles are basically just hefting big slabs of sharp metal or swinging their fists around, while everyone else has a deep and rich martial heritage that functions on a spiritual level and is incredibly complex and powerful and vaguely magic. It's a specific version of the whole "mystic east" cliche.

The reverse can therefore be surprising and a little amusing for us, like the bit in Sengoku Youko where the tiger-demon monk explains that he learned an exotic and powerful fighting style for the sake of overcoming his rival... and puts his hands into a boxing guard, immediately baffling his opponent with unusual footwork and crazy jabs. BOCK-SINGU!

If nothing else, Fate at least gives the nod to Pankration as the world's oldest known mixed martial arts style, which by the setting's rules should mean Chiron blows Shuwen's Bajiquan out of the water. Catch Wrestling has a deep folk heritage across Europe, which is what Beowulf's clearly exhibiting when he rips an ogre's arm off for the heck of it, so I don't see it falling behind Bajiquan except in terms of Nasu's middle school obsession.
 
Revlid said:
If nothing else, Fate at least gives the nod to Pankration as the world's oldest known mixed martial arts style, which by the setting's rules should mean Chiron blows Shuwen's Bajiquan out of the water.
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*coughs* No, it means that in a contest of Mystery, it'd win. "punch the shit out of each-other" is no contest of Mystery.
 
Revlid said:
Eh. That's just exoticism. Western people tend toward this weird idea that their culture's historical fighting styles are basically just hefting big slabs of sharp metal or swinging their fists around, while everyone else has a deep and rich martial heritage that functions on a spiritual level and is incredibly complex and powerful and vaguely magic. It's a specific version of the whole "mystic east" cliche.

The reverse can therefore be surprising and a little amusing for us, like the bit in Sengoku Youko where the tiger-demon monk explains that he learned an exotic and powerful fighting style for the sake of overcoming his rival... and puts his hands into a boxing guard, immediately baffling his opponent with unusual footwork and crazy jabs. BOCK-SINGU!

If nothing else, Fate at least gives the nod to Pankration as the world's oldest known mixed martial arts style, which by the setting's rules should mean Chiron blows Shuwen's Bajiquan out of the water. Catch Wrestling has a deep folk heritage across Europe, which is what Beowulf's clearly exhibiting when he rips an ogre's arm off for the heck of it, so I don't see it falling behind Bajiquan except in terms of Nasu's middle school obsession.
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World class submission specialists/wrestlers getting blown out because they decided to trade punches with a striking specialist isn't an unheard of thing if you follow mixed martial arts.

Definitely world class Brazilian Jiu Jitsu champion Demian Maia getting starched by didn't-exactly-set-the-world-on-fire journeyman Nate Marquardt is a fair illustration of this principle and can be found on Youtube, obviously Beowulf's mistake was deciding to stand and bang instead of shooting for a takedown.

;)

Edit: The conceptual knock off of Li Shuwen vs Beowulf, for illustration purposes.
 
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Come on Wade we all know Li Shuwen won because Nasu would throw a massive BITCH fit in the middle of DW's office otherwise

And then he would cry to his Master and Overlord Takeuchi how DW is bullying his favorite servant then Takeuchi would demand SaberFace the Kung Fu Version and kick Nasu back to his basement because Mushrooms aren't supposed to see the light
 
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The Curious Fan said:
People have been of the opinion that Li Shuwen is wanked by TM since Extra came out and gave him unbreakable presence concealment and an auto-kill technique. Him getting a win against someone who should have gotten slaughtered by has strengthened that position.
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He sorta is?

Nasu: Everyone from 19th Century suck balls and Edison is only as he is because in America he was the only Governamental Figure summoned and so all the presidents bet their odds on him and his allies defeating the Celts, outside of Grand Orders (the term for missions to saving mankind, not the game) he is a normal human with E-D stats everywhere

Mata Hari. Has one really good skill. If it fails she's dead period

Li Shuwen. One Hit Kill no matter what defense you put against, even just grazing is fucking fatal.

High Ranking Presence Concealment that never falls and you can only detect part of him if you have well detect skills or Instinct/Eye of Mind. Which means Li Shuwen will fight you and you can't HEAR/FEEL/SEE him at all

Oh and in case all that fails he can just Punch Good everything to death making the other two skills not Succeed or Die at all

Also B Rank STR and A Rank AGI. In a age of 'Humans suck balls, period.' At least his endurance is C which is not that bullshit and Mana/Luck are E which evens out somewhat

I mean yeah he loses HARD to AOE attacks but with presence concealment why would you shoot at him if you don't even have a single hint that he is around?
 
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Well, Baji is the style used by Kotomine "Successfully knife fight an A Rank Agility and B Rank Strength Servant" Kirei.

Kotomine "Kiritsugu is using his Stand ZA WARUDO to stop time! Fortunately my Star Platinum is THE SAME TYPE OF STAND! Wait, damnit, I don't even have a Stand. Oh well. ORAORAORAORAORA ANYWAY!" Kirei.

So the guy who created that style being a tad broken seems somewhat...I don't want to say sensible...
 
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Wade Garrett said:
Well, Baji is the style used by Kotomine "Successfully knife fight an A Rank Agility and B Rank Strength Servant" Kirei.

Kotomine "Kiritsugu is using his Stand ZA WARUDO to stop time! Fortunately my Star Platinum is THE SAME TYPE OF STAND! Wait, I don't even have a Stand. Oh well. ORAORAORAORAORA ANYWAY!" Kirei.

So the guy who created that style being a tad broken seems somewhat...I don't want to say sensible...
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Wait what? Wasn't Kirei pressed against the Wall against Assassin all the fucking time and his whole plan relied on Zabaniya me you fucker! ZABANIYA ME NOW! Or else he would have run out of mojo and die to Arabian Kunais?
 
Vanargand said:
Wait what? Wasn't Kirei pressed against the Wall against Assassin all the fucking time and his whole plan relied on Zabaniya me you fucker! ZABANIYA ME NOW! Or else he would have run out of mojo and die to Arabian Kunais?
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It's still extremely impressive he did that without using any command seals, and even TA complimented Kirei on his skills.
 
Wade Garrett said:
Well, Baji is the style used by Kotomine "Successfully knife fight an A Rank Agility and B Rank Strength Servant" Kirei.

Kotomine "Kiritsugu is using his Stand ZA WARUDO to stop time! Fortunately my Star Platinum is THE SAME TYPE OF STAND! Wait, damnit, I don't even have a Stand. Oh well. ORAORAORAORAORA ANYWAY!" Kirei.

So the guy who created that style being a tad broken seems somewhat...I don't want to say sensible...
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Li didn't invent Bajiquan...I think?

He wanted to work in a circus or something. Got wounded couldn't do it. Went back home to inherit the Dojo

Fucking pissed off with that Li killed fuckloads of people to satisfy his anger (Demon Li) or gave them Permanent Injuries that plagued them for life

Eventually somehow he realized how much of a Asshole he was being and became his Zen Old Self

Course its interesting that his Young Self wants to fight his Old Self according to the Young Lancer bio
 
Vanargand said:
Wait what? Wasn't Kirei pressed against the Wall against Assassin all the fucking time and his whole plan relied on Zabaniya me you fucker! ZABANIYA ME NOW! Or else he would have run out of mojo and die to Arabian Kunais?
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"Ha ha!" said True Assassin, pinned to the wall by the Black Keys. "This totally counts as a win for me!"

"Really." Kotomine said dryly, dusting off his hands after blasting Zouken with a Church Sacrament.

"Yep! Because you cheated, and I had the flu, and you cheated, and the sun was in my eyes, and you cheated, and I slipped on a root, and you cheated, and you cheated..."

"I see." The priest smiled. "Tell me something. The Assassin class...it specializes in claiming unfair advantages. In misdirection, ambush, and trickery, as illustrated by your victory over Cuchulain."

"Yep."

"And so you claim that this is actually a victory for you...because I surpassed you in the very area your class specializes in."

Assassin had nothing more to say, and anyway he needed all his breath for sobbing impotent bitch tears.
 
Wade Garrett said:
Well, Baji is the style used by Kotomine "Successfully knife fight an A Rank Agility and B Rank Strength Servant" Kirei.
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Weren't those stats just a lazy copy-paste of Lancer's that TA consistently failed to live up to in-story?
Wade Garrett said:
Kotomine "Kiritsugu is using his Stand ZA WARUDO to stop time! Fortunately my Star Platinum is THE SAME TYPE OF STAND! Wait, damnit, I don't even have a Stand. Oh well. ORAORAORAORAORA ANYWAY!" Kirei.
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Well now I know what to expect from Dio when I get to the end of part 3.
 
Vanargand said:
Li didn't invent Bajiquan...I think?

He wanted to work in a circus or something. Got wounded couldn't do it. Went back home to inherit the Dojo

Fucking pissed off with that Li killed fuckloads of people to satisfy his anger (Demon Li) or gave them Permanent Injuries that plagued them for life

Eventually somehow he realized how much of a Asshole he was being and became his Zen Old Self

Course its interesting that his Young Self wants to fight his Old Self according to the Young Lancer bio
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IIRC Bajiquan had split into baji and pigua styles but Li Shuwen recombined them again and there's this relevant quote about it "When pigua is added to baji, gods and demons will all be terrified. When baji is added to pigua, heroes will sigh knowing they are no match against it"
 
Sockpuppet said:
IIRC Bajiquan had split into baji and pigua styles but Li Shuwen recombined them again and there's this relevant quote about it "When pigua is added to baji, gods and demons will all be terrified. When baji is added to pigua, heroes will sigh knowing they are no match against it"
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You know what okay

Li Shuwen is the Shirou of his time

Fucking Obssessed with Martial Arts so much he fucking Breathes it in

There problem solved and because he is what a Century before EMIYA he has better stats
 
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according to the nasu wiki, alexander can be summoned as lancer, berserker, and caster.

the first two i can see. the third... not so much.

that aside, are there any fanmade sheets for him in those classes?
 
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