Hey, I've changed my draft plan to reflect this, put it down as a 500-700 ton range, see what design our QM offers us.
Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
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- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
Hey, I've changed my draft plan to reflect this, put it down as a 500-700 ton range, see what design our QM offers us.
A somewhat pragmatic idea: we could do some malicious compliance here, and only leave Xyri weakly defended. Temporarily losing Xyri to an Aslan raid might actually be in our favor, since it would show Xyri that they absolutely do need that defensive alliance with us that they just rejected. If it is purely a raid for honor and plunder, the Aslan will retreat on their own after raiding Xyri. If the Aslan do decide to stick around, they are in for a nasty surprise when we bring in the Monitor and the rest of the fleet to retake the system.
Wait, is 500 tonnes the limit for what needs one pilot? Anything above 500 tonnes needs two pilots? If that is the case, we should absolutely keep this design at a maximum of 500 tonnes. This should definitely be a one-pilot craft, at least for now.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
I think @Artificial Girl had a proposal for a 800 ton fleet escort that fits the bill, honestly. Three missile bays, two laser turrets, two sand caster turrets.
As to what we build next, I am partial to building an MMV to round that out and then working up design proposals for PDDs, escorts, small craft landing ships.
As to what we build next, I am partial to building an MMV to round that out and then working up design proposals for PDDs, escorts, small craft landing ships.
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This is provided that we've got more ICs stationed at Home. We've got 8 total at the moment. 2 are assigned to S'taxu. 1 is going to be in Xyri. 1 or 2 will be required to defend the station at Heimdall. For some time, 2 more will be undergoing refits. We'll need to bring the numbers of ICs up to, say, 15 and add these new frigates to be able to defend our commitments and still got forces on standby to relieve S'taxu.
Nah, that's either to big or too small, gotta choose 500 tonnes for less pilot use and cheaper price or 1K tonnes for performance and survival.
Plus, as soon as we're done with the scouting trip, we'll want to, I assume, build this trade station somewhere. We might as well start thinking on where we want it now.
EDIT: As for MMVs, we might be able to get one built, but the ICs became more important for now.
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Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Given the mission profile, I think 800 tons is fine. There's no particular reason beyond personal preference to limit it to 500/1000 and exclude the tonnage in between.
The upside to the Aslan... adventurousness is that it suggests a couple of significant things:
- Some glory-seeker is likely to bounce himself over the border sooner or later, no matter how good our diplomatic relations, unless we can get big clans or perhaps the theorized female "deep state" invested enough in peace to keep them under control. But they may not even understand why periodic border scuffles would be something that needs to be controlled.
- Such adventurers will probably not be particularly heavily equipped - though given their advancement a squadron of Aslan corsairs or patrol ships gone raider might still be a nasty shock.
- When we bap them on the nose with the radioactive rolled-up newspaper of Justice and put the glowing salvage in the X-Com laboratory, nobody besides the perpetrator's clan is likely to care, and even they may consider it to be a fair cop.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Also I don't think we need to necessarily scramble to get a counter out immediately. They're still far enough away that I don't think we have to worry about them coming over to poke at us in the very near future.
We still do have items we want to accomplish - the lander for example - and I think we should solicit designs before we decide to lay down any new types of ship, although we should definitely also plan on incorporating the new sensors etc. into a refit program.
I wonder if an MMV command and control variant would be more viable now.
We still do have items we want to accomplish - the lander for example - and I think we should solicit designs before we decide to lay down any new types of ship, although we should definitely also plan on incorporating the new sensors etc. into a refit program.
I wonder if an MMV command and control variant would be more viable now.
Numbers in between don't offer specific advantages either. If you want stuff cheap, going with 500K is the way. If you can't achieve the desired performance within 500K, then bumping it up to 1K gives us a craft that we can make blend in with ICs. Unless there's something specific that works well at 700 or 800 tonnes, there's no reason to go for it.
These guys are two jumps away from Xyri and we don't know how good their J-Drives are. For them, it might be just one jump.
Problem is, we don't know how large these clans are? One city? Several planets?
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Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Numbers in between give us greater capability than a 500-tonner while still being cheaper than the full 1k; notably means we probably have a bit more play with including armor and weapons after we incorporate fuel for the jump drive.
I don't see a particular reason why "blending in with the ICs" is a compelling reason.
So that it isn't obvious to the Aslan which ships need to be swatted first.
The problem I have with this is that currently, the cost of going from one pilot to two pilots is very steep. So from a cost-benefit standpoint, if we need to use two pilots for anything above 500 tonnes, we might as well maximize how much tonnage those two pilots are commanding.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
What makes you think they won't aim at the big ones first instead?
Maximizing tonnage means increasing credit cost and eating up yard space, both of which are other limiters so I think it's still worth discussing the potential benefits of something smaller for a fleet escort.
We want them to aim at the big ones, since the smaller escort ships are designed to protect our big ships from their fighters.What makes you think they won't aim at the big ones first instead?
Because, after our first encounter, Aslan will recognize the smaller ship as countering their ships. It'll be prioritized. We'd prefered them to target bigger ships, because those have more HP and with them targetted smaller frigates remain operational for longer. But, we can't count on our enemies to be so obliging. If we want to retain that advantage in some form we build at 1K to match the IC, if we want to focus on budget, we build at 500 tonnes. Minimal savings on building 800 tonnes, which still uses two pilots, isn't worth it in comparison.What makes you think they won't aim at the big ones first instead?
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Well, yes, that's my point.
By this logic no one irl would ever build smaller escort craft because the enemy is just gonna blow them up. I think you're wrong. If they target the PDD hen the cruisers are free to work them over while they try to kill them. It's an interconnected fleet not just Counter A then Counter B.
If you build a 1000 ton escort it's not really an escort anymore it's just a cruiser variant.
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To be fair, I agree with this. I just also agree that we should absolutely go 500 tonnes to get by with one pilot. Having a 500 tonnes escort for a 1000 tonnes ship also makes more sense to me than having the escorts be almost as large as the cruisers.
Anyone want to actually start the vote?
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Sure. In fact, we don't even know whether fighters are their main way to wage war, or whether we were just shown something nice because we were honoured guests. But, if rejected that explanation and wanted to go for something smaller, we still wouldn't build 800 tonnes. We would do 500 tonnes that are even cheaper and less pilot-intensive.
OK. Nothing wrong with it being a cruiser variant.
Anyways, if the plan below was presented, I'd vote for it. If it specifically mentioned just the 500 tonnes variant, I wouldn't mind voting for it either.
[ ] Plan Bulking out the Fleet v2
-[ ] Yes, with the following modifications: Include deep scans of neighbouring hexes conducted from 03.-02.
-[ ] Something Else: Lay down the hulls for two additional Interstellar Cruisers, a block IIa design incorporating recent technological advancements acquired from Xyri.
-[ ] Something Else: Draft a new design and dedicate the remaining yard space to it. Point-defense frigate, with lasers as its primary armament, envisaged as an anti-fighter ship to escort other vessels. Present a smaller 500 tonnes variant and an IC 1K tonnes variant.
- Location
- Somewhere in the stacks
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Part of what makes the 800 ton design I've been playing around with attractive to me is that weight means it's more comfortable to the crew, and more importantly can fit three missile bays for firepower. It being smaller also means less cost than an IC which frankly I think is important considering budgetary needs and the desire to have more than one escort per cruiser, I assume.
Otherwise I agree with @Rat King that we should focus on the project we've committed to (landing vessel) before we start anything else.
Otherwise I agree with @Rat King that we should focus on the project we've committed to (landing vessel) before we start anything else.
Do we want more total tonnes of escorts than of our mainstay combatants? I'm not so sure about that.
Yeah, there's that as well. We'll need to have it done soon. Between them, the extra ICs and whatever escorts we settle on, there's going to be little room left for stations and no more MMVs for some time.
Yeah, it feels like at this point, we're having potential options foreclosed because we just don't have enough ships and getting a 500 ton/two for one deal would really help address that. No reason to gucci them up for patrol duty, just get the numbers so we can have more capable stuff handle the tougher tasks.
I guess I'll start the vote.
[X] Plan Bulking out the Fleet, 500 tonne version
-[X] Yes, with the following modifications: Include deep scans of neighbouring hexes conducted from 03.-02.
-[X] Something Else: Lay down the hulls for two additional Interstellar Cruisers, a block IIa design incorporating recent technological advancements acquired from Xyri.
-[X] Something Else: Draft a new design and dedicate the remaining yard space to it. Point-defense frigate, with lasers as its primary armament as well as cutting edge targeting computers and sensors. The ship is envisaged as an anti-fighter ship to escort other vessels, with a secondary role of a patrol vessel for protecting trade routes and policing. Keep the weight at 500 tonnes, allowing one pilot to control the ship.
-[X] Let us consider small attack craft that could be carried aboard our ships.
[X] Plan Bulking out the Fleet, 500 tonne version
-[X] Yes, with the following modifications: Include deep scans of neighbouring hexes conducted from 03.-02.
-[X] Something Else: Lay down the hulls for two additional Interstellar Cruisers, a block IIa design incorporating recent technological advancements acquired from Xyri.
-[X] Something Else: Draft a new design and dedicate the remaining yard space to it. Point-defense frigate, with lasers as its primary armament as well as cutting edge targeting computers and sensors. The ship is envisaged as an anti-fighter ship to escort other vessels, with a secondary role of a patrol vessel for protecting trade routes and policing. Keep the weight at 500 tonnes, allowing one pilot to control the ship.
-[X] Let us consider small attack craft that could be carried aboard our ships.
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- Location
- Somewhere in the stacks
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well, I envision it not simply as a fleet escort but also a system patrol vessel that can do anti-pirate or customs enforcement on detached duty.
My main concern with a 500 ton escort is that I think once you cram all required systems in we'll end up with something that is too cramped and uncomfortable for longer term missions and lack enough firepower to contribute positively to a fleet engagement. Especially if you insist on putting a particle bay on it, there'll be a loss of mission necessary armament at that weight (missiles, lasers, and sand casters).
[X] Plan Bulking out the Fleet, 500 tonne version
My plan at least is to not include a particle bay. It is expensive, bulky and not needed in its intended role, in my opinion. In war, this ship will be protecting the actual heavy hitters who have particle bays. In peacetime, it should never need heavy particle beam weapons to bully pirate vessels or civilian ships.
Yes, with just 500 tonnes to play around with, lasers are enough. Can this be specified in the plan?
EDIT: For now, I'll throw in the vote, but perhaps something better might be presented as well. There's still the requirement for us constructing the marine lander and we'll need more station segments soon.
[X] Plan Bulking out the Fleet, 500 tonne version