Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
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- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
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[X] Plan: Staggered Refit V2
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- Fort Worth, TX
[X] Plan: Staggered Refit V2
5-2: Scout Force
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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- It/She/They
What should we build now? Begin refit of 1 IC to Block II
What should we build in eleven months? Construct Revised MMV design, Refit existing Interstellar Cruisers to Block II two at a time, 1x DSS, station segments for outpost and fuel depot/mine in Heimdall, Review revised MMV design and investigate what a dedicated marine lander variant built on the same chassis might look like.
What does the Service make of this recommendation? Yes, but every operation requires authorization from the highest levels.
What should this force include? A flotilla support ship, two DSS ships and two IS ships for maximum capability.
Refit Construction
New technology brings the desire to deploy those advances to the fleet. Thus the block II refit/design for the Interstellar Cruiser is designed. Curiously, some argue that it should be block III since the Interplanetary Cruiser was fundamentally built on the same hull, but given the now long since outdated technologies those ships relied on it seems less useful that simply calling them the second block of refits and builds.
Nonetheless, the saved tonnage is used to greatly enhance the ships. Fittings for a pair of jump tanks will extend the cruisers range up to 2 parsecs from home without logistics support. Significantly improved accommodations for the crew will ensure they are more comfortable during any deployment, reducing complaints about discomfort on long trips. Finally, the addition of two tons of more advanced sensors will improve targeting at long ranges where the particle cannons are at their most effective.
The first ship to enter refits - HSWS Ninurta - will cost the Service just 78,150,000Cr. and will be completed circa 07y08m02w. At this point the ships will enter rolling refits, two at a time, until the entire force is completed circa 10y02m02w.
Scouting Forces
The establishment of a 'scouting flotilla' within the Home Space Warfare Service will formalise what has thus far been an ad-hoc relationship between the small long-range surveyors and the logistics arm of the fleet. This unit - initially consisting of the HSWS Lakapati, the HSWS Culsans and Janus and the HSWS Aditi, and Uenuku - will have a flexible membership, with ships filtering in and out of the Flotilla as they require maintenance and repairs. The only ships that will not benefit from this are the Culsans and the Janus and they will surely argue for a third ship of the class in the near future.
The first operation of this new 'scouting flotilla' will be to conduct a successor to Operation Southern View, in the 'East'. Consider the following map:
Element Two (Blue-South): One of the DSS scouts will accompany the force into 02,00 before heading 'South' into 02,01 to scan the dark skies. She will return using a single drop tank after a month long stay out in the dark.
Element Three (Blue-North): The other DSS scout will rendezvous with the FSS at sector 02,-01 some weeks into the operation, tanking for fuel before heading to sector '02,-02' to commit to long range scanning. She will return some time after the other ships, again utilising a single drop tank.
Element Four: The Flotilla Support Ship will conduct a very short journey across three systems (including Xyri). At each point she will tank off a significant amount of her fuel. Of the 1,100 tons available to her (400 reserved for her third jump) she will dispense 190 tons at sector 02,00 and a further 190 tons at 02,-01 for the return trip. She will also recover any drop tanks that are not destroyed by our scouts transit.
This operation is expected to take 11 weeks with the flotilla rendezvousing in Xyri before returning to Home together. This plan is proposed to the Service's senior membership as the broadest overview of sectors managed thus far, a capability only possible thanks to the deployment of this permanent formation.
What does the senior membership make of the plan? (Also my thanks to magnificate who drew up the initial plan this is based off of)
[ ] Yes, this is good. Approved.
[ ] No, this is a bad idea. Not approved.
[ ] It could work, with the following adjustments (Write-in).
Multi-Mission Vehicle
The Multi-Mission Vehicle has gone through several rounds of drafts and reconsiderations based on technological developments, developments in doctrine and the greater understanding of the force as it exists and as it must exist in the future. As such the construction of a revised MMV is not currently considered possible until the design is better refined and more closely understood to meet those needs.
Originally, the MMV was envisioned as a patrol cruiser, a long range warship of significant size that could be deployed alone or with escorts. It would be capable of acceptable speed, four jumps with the addition of drop tanks (2+2) and a mixed armament of torpedoes and particle cannons. It would be able to deploy a platoon of marines with their own dedicated boarding shuttle, while still being a capable warship in its own right.
The current incarnation of that design has only a single multi-role shuttle, a reduced complement of torpedoes (for a greater battery of particle beams), better armour and speed and maintains the complement of marines. It is still capable of four jumps using drop tanks.
[ ] Yes, this is exactly what is needed.
[ ] No, it should be modified in the following ways (Write-in).
Please present any votes as a plan. Voting opens at
As for the scouting mission, it's good but:
-[ ] Never, ever, send out Flotilla Support Ships without an IC escort.
-[ ] HSWS Tishtrya is not part of the flotilla, but it too needs a job to do. Send it to Heimdall, have it scan the hexes adjactent to Hermosa. Have an IC escort.
As for the IC refit, it's great. Upgrading sensons slipped my mind, but our engineers had it covered.
As for MMV, it's acceptable. But, there's the matter of designation for the MMVs. Multi-Mission Vehicle to me sounds a bit too civilian. Perhaps, Interstellar Heavy Cruiser? Rapid-Deployment Ship? Command Cruiser? Or something to the effect of Mobile Operations Cruiser?
EDIT: There's one thing extra thing we need to consider, if these ships are to serve as multi-roles then there's need for significant cargo space. We've got some, 91 tonnes, but is enough? Plus, I'd still be intersted to see how an overall smaller variant looks.
-[ ] Never, ever, send out Flotilla Support Ships without an IC escort.
-[ ] HSWS Tishtrya is not part of the flotilla, but it too needs a job to do. Send it to Heimdall, have it scan the hexes adjactent to Hermosa. Have an IC escort.
As for the IC refit, it's great. Upgrading sensons slipped my mind, but our engineers had it covered.
As for MMV, it's acceptable. But, there's the matter of designation for the MMVs. Multi-Mission Vehicle to me sounds a bit too civilian. Perhaps, Interstellar Heavy Cruiser? Rapid-Deployment Ship? Command Cruiser? Or something to the effect of Mobile Operations Cruiser?
EDIT: There's one thing extra thing we need to consider, if these ships are to serve as multi-roles then there's need for significant cargo space. We've got some, 91 tonnes, but is enough? Plus, I'd still be intersted to see how an overall smaller variant looks.
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Will we see an update or description on how civilian life has changed with the expansion of our knowledge and the Service? Are there more goods in the shops? More trade? Cultural Exchanges with the neighbors?
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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As and when I have the energy in between drawing ships, designing ships and writing 1k words a day
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Mission looks good to me. It would take some deep jumping for a potential threat force to hit our support vessel, but an escort isn't a bad idea.
As to the MMV, I'm agreed on not liking the name MMV. The design looks quite solid to me, but MMV just sounds… modern in a way I don't like. Command, expeditionary, or strike cruiser all sound better to me.
Edit: we could also stick with the pattern established with the surveyors, and make this the Deep Space Cruiser?
As to the MMV, I'm agreed on not liking the name MMV. The design looks quite solid to me, but MMV just sounds… modern in a way I don't like. Command, expeditionary, or strike cruiser all sound better to me.
Edit: we could also stick with the pattern established with the surveyors, and make this the Deep Space Cruiser?
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Coyote Niff
the most transbian obligate scavenger on the 'net!
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Trying a little epistolary, comedic storytelling rather than my usual briefing style. I think after all the different ways we've designed and edited the Lancer, our humble MWO chief would be feeling like a worm on a string, so I channeled that into a sort of impotent, Simpsons-type rage letter that she thinks nobody will see. We the players, of course, know that's wrong :-3.
[X] OPLAN: Sharpening the Lance
-[X] Yes, this is good. Approved.
-[X] No, it should be modified in the following ways: increase torpedo ammo capacity and re-add the dedicated dropship abandoned in the original design alongside the regular shuttle, along with a further 15 ground troops. In order to affect these changes, reduce armor and number of particle beams the MMV is equipped with, but maintain speed, which will make up for the difference in durability by allowing better evasive maneuvering.
"TO: Office of the Home Space Warfare Service Procurement And Design Bureau
To the esteemed General Madrigal and other members of the Bureau,
<at this point, a violent sprawl of green ink covers the page-the writer's antique ballpoint pen has burst its ink chamber, spewing angrily over the page and adding spatters and stains to the already violently crossed-out paragraph of invective. A slightly steadier hand continues the letter in black ink.>
I firmly and humbly request the following revisions to the Lancer program to bring it more in line with original mission parameters and the vision of my office. Every spacer here has spent considerable time devoted to the Multi-Mission Vehicle program and hope only for its success.
Your humblest servant,
Maj. Lenore Novohal, SWS Multispectrum Warfare Office."
—General Madrigal: The above letter was recovered in a crumpled, half-burnt ball from the waste disposal system aboard Armistice Station in S'taxu during the MWO staff's latest information-sharing briefing with the People's Military Council, which of course our agents attended and monitored to ensure subversive elements within the Service remain on a tight leash. We recommend increased surveillance of Major Novohal and her office for potential seditious activity and democratic sympathies, and will be doubling your personal security detail.
-Col. Ravenna Blochs, Space Warfare Counterintelligence Directorate.
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At this point in time, the DSS is a bit of a misnomer, since almost all of our ships are going to have 2+2 range.
There's no point in increasing the number of marines. We were requested to provide landing capabilities and to do that with just the MMVs would require us to build a lot of them. It's cheaper to build dedicated landing craft and put the spare space into something else. Weapons are a good idea, but some dedicated C&C component might be useful as well. Or, more space for cargo, since this might be used to ferry sensitive stuff.
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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The current MMV has space for one 90 ton shuttle. You could pack in more, smaller shuttles.
Hmmm... I don't think smaller shuttles would make the difference. That said, another potential idea would be to have an infirmary aboard. If this ship is supposed to conduct rescue operations, it could use an infirmary.
EDIT: Tentative vote. I'm not quite sure on the new designation, but ICC, Interstellar Command Cruiser, would be most relevant since these ships are meant to lead ICs in battle.
[X] Plan Minor Improvement
-[X] Yes, this is good. Approved.
--[X] The third DSS, HSWS Tishtrya, is not a part of the flotilla. It's tasked with jumping to Heimdall and conducting long-range observations on hexes adjacent to Hermosa. Due to the risk of interception, one Interstellar Cruiser is assigned as an escort.
-[X] No, it should be modified in the following ways:
--[X] Change the designation to MMC, Multi-Mission Cruiser.
--[X] Add a small infirmary and reduce cargo space.
EDIT: I've switched from Command Cruiser to Multi-Mission Cruiser.
EDIT: Tentative vote. I'm not quite sure on the new designation, but ICC, Interstellar Command Cruiser, would be most relevant since these ships are meant to lead ICs in battle.
[X] Plan Minor Improvement
-[X] Yes, this is good. Approved.
--[X] The third DSS, HSWS Tishtrya, is not a part of the flotilla. It's tasked with jumping to Heimdall and conducting long-range observations on hexes adjacent to Hermosa. Due to the risk of interception, one Interstellar Cruiser is assigned as an escort.
-[X] No, it should be modified in the following ways:
--[X] Change the designation to MMC, Multi-Mission Cruiser.
--[X] Add a small infirmary and reduce cargo space.
EDIT: I've switched from Command Cruiser to Multi-Mission Cruiser.
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Coyote Niff
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The problem here is that the Lancer is not a command vehicle, and is not equipped with the ability to do so without another significant overhaul. We had the opportunity to produce a command vessel during the logistics buildup that produced the FSS and your voting bloc rejected it. I'm happy to resurrect the idea because dedicated command and ECM craft are cool as fuck, particularly if we combine it with exploring @WallFly and @Rat King's mutual escort carrier concept. Also, the Lancer is not a cruiser-type craft; not only is it relatively lightly armored, it's not weapons-dedicated in a way either our actual cruisers or the IRL naval vehicles everyone seems dead-set on replicating are; the Lancer is a multi-role vehicle with variable capability in both weapons and mission and can't be easily pigeonholed into one role. MMV being "too modern" is also just another instance of "space navy" popping up again, and as much as I understand the popularity of the idea I'll continue to gently agitate against it.
Edit: I do agree that @Magnificate has an excellent point RE: the infirmary given the Lancer's mission profile as an explorer. @4WheelSword what would that cost us to add? Would the proposed armor and p-beam reductions give us the space?
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0t4n1z3r019
Member of the HAFPTG
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Me too.
Multi-Mission Vehicle fits the role of our ship, so no need to change the name, plus the acronym's easy to read.
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Which turned out for the best, since we're using our space tanker and we didn't yet had the need for C&C ship. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to overhauling the Lancer to that effect. That way we could build our force aroung groups of four ICs and one Lancer. If we wanted to build bigger C&C ships that woul mean we're committing to operating in bigger groups.
Lancer has 8 points of armor, same as an IC or Monitor. It has significant weapons loadout. It's a warship that might be able to do a bit of marine landings and rescue missions. It isn't an explorer, since we've got dedicated ships for doing just that. It isn't an escort either, since we've refitted the smaller ICs to be able to conduct patrols and escort missions. Over the years, its mission profile became too narrow to call it an MMV. Granted, it might not be Command Cruiser, but perhaps some sort of Tactical Operations Cruiser or just Heavy Cruiser would be fit better.
EDIT: Or, perhaps a Multi-Mission Cruiser, to mash both approaches.
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Coyote Niff
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Which is exactly why my OPLAN exists: to reverse that course and bring the Lancer back down to earth-shed armor and particle beams and the "just a bigger cruiser" bloat and get it back down to using that 3K mass for high-speed engines, drop tanks, torp racks, surveillance/exploration sensor systems, dropships, and, thanks to your excellent suggestion, even a hospital deck. We have enough big armored beam-ships for the end of time between the Monitors and the Block IIs. It's time for something fresh, multi-capable, and self-reliant, because that's what our new doctrine requires.
No? Our doctrines requires us to do two things, peaceful exploration, which we're doing via the scout flotilla, and power projection, which we're doing via refitting ICs to long range and up-gunning the Lancer. There's room for the Lancer in the new doctrine, but the changes made in its design are in accordance to the doctrine. I consider them to be positive changes.
That said, with the agreement on including an infrimary, I've switched the designation to Multi-Mission Cruiser, so that we know it is still a space warfare craft.
[X] Plan Minor Improvement
-[X] Yes, this is good. Approved.
--[X] The third DSS, HSWS Tishtrya, is not a part of the flotilla. It's tasked with jumping to Heimdall and conducting long-range observations on hexes adjacent to Hermosa. Due to the risk of interception, one Interstellar Cruiser is assigned as an escort.
-[X] No, it should be modified in the following ways:
--[X] Change the designation to MMC, Multi-Mission Cruiser.
--[X] Add a small infirmary and reduce cargo space.
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Coyote Niff
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Our doctrine requires us to project power balanced with exploratory capability...two missions at once...more than one mission...dare I say...multi-mission? Up-gunning and up-armoring the Lancer with p-beams and yanking out all the FLF capacity and torps damages its capability to meet the mission.