[x] Plan: Begin to Panic in Controlled Manner
Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
- Start date
- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
Next turn I am going to submit a plan asking for an expansion of shipyard space by about 10,000 tons, as well as ask our industry for submissions for a 6 jump capable cruiser, to see how effective it would be at our current technology level. It seems to me that we have a need for a long range combat platform, and hopefully we can come up with something
I believe we cannot at-will expand the yardspace.
6-jump cruiser maybe is possible though.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Main problem with a six-jump cruiser is that we either sacrifice a lot of armor and weapons space (each jump eats 10% of the ship's hull in tonnage) or we go with a lot of jumptanks.
We can't exactly just request new shipyards, as far as I understand it. They're mostly increased by increasing our population (i.e., conquest). Otherwise, I would be all over that. We might be able to directly build them, but if so, they're extremely expensive & IMO further down our priority list than some other things - if we can straight-up build stuff using the "station modules", then after building a huge jump tugboat to carry stuff around, I'd like to build a mining station using the Mineral Refinery module and throw it into orbit above Shambala. Each ton of space dedicated to a Mineral Refinery produces a ton of various ores per day, of which 15% is going to be crystals & gems (around .02 MCr/ton, since we won't need to pay purchase prices) and 5% is precious metals (around .055 MCr/ton); the remaining 80% of common and uncommon ores can be used by the shipyard to produce warships while the entire thing pays for itself.
A 6-jump cruiser could work, but it's going to be mostly fuel; literally, it'd be 60% just jump fuel. Add in 12.5% devoted to armour, 5.5% for the M- and J-drives, whatever percent of tonnage we choose for the reaction drive (since those are clearly very useful, given how the stealth ships evade our fire; we're looking at 2% for every G of acceleration it's capable of plus 2.5% per hour of burn), the weight of the crew spaces and powerplant (which cause tonnage to exponentially increase), and there's not much left for weapons. We also then have to ask what capability that 6-jump ship brings over a 2-jump ship that's half the size combined with an unarmoured tanker that follows it around.
Things get much better at TL11 because then we can do some funny things where the (uncrewed and disposable) tanker docks to the warship, and then they undock 1 jump away from the target and the tanker is abandoned.
[X] Plan: Hybrid
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Plan: Begin to Panic in Controlled Manner
My objections to contacting Hermosa and Garda-Villas about this matter remain the same as I have previously stated. Go push for a reply from Noctocole instead if we really want to learn more about them. I see no value in informing either of them of the threat we face and they are highly unlikely to have encountered them in the first place due to the simple fact that we are physically in between them and fuel limitations are a thing.
My objections to contacting Hermosa and Garda-Villas about this matter remain the same as I have previously stated. Go push for a reply from Noctocole instead if we really want to learn more about them. I see no value in informing either of them of the threat we face and they are highly unlikely to have encountered them in the first place due to the simple fact that we are physically in between them and fuel limitations are a thing.
12-5: Dios te salve
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
The HSWS must craft a response to the situation: Plan: Begin to Panic in Controlled Manner
Available Budget: 6,000MCr
Current Dockyard Usage: 14,900/21,500Dtons
Current Pilot Usage: 85/100
Fresh Crisis
The HSWS launches into something approaching action. The mine-layer HSLS Alakshmi heads out to begin mining the potential flash points and ensure enemy stealth ships do not have clear shot to Home. A message is sent to Aslan space and when the courier returns, it brings with it a pair of small cruisers to bolster the two hired from local mercenary forces. These assemble in Home, along with a pair of CFA's and six other warships, as well as a cruiser and an un-deployed FSS, and are fully gathered by 19y00m00w. The ten weeks since Vice-Marshal Gebara has been declared overdue have been as busy as they can be, the ad-hoc response fleet has been training and simply awaiting the arrival of their Aslan comrades and the dispersal of mercenaries as marines across HSWS ships.
Vice-Marshall Sophea Omarov leads a task force of fourteen ships North to Sector '01, -02' from which she will base her response to what may yet prove to be enemy action. What follows are post action logs from the Task Force:
It took us ten weeks to assemble a force and another two to reach Sector '01, -02'. My force, disparate as it is, is arguably the most capable ever assembled by the HSWS shame that it had to come in the wake of potential tragedy. Nonetheless I have my orders. I will hold my forces in this sector while the Xennies conduct their scouting ops and then perhaps I'll even be allowed to deploy my forces in anger.
I hope Matxalen is okay. I'd miss her if something has happened. It is taking everything in my will to not simply deploy overwhelming forces to each system until we find her and her fleet. Dios te salve, mi amor.
- Extract from Vice-Marshall Omarov's log.
Humaniti is stuck in the old ways - they do not trust their generals to command, or their admirals to lead. They send us months from our homes and give us orders that are supposed to cover every eventuality. It is a tired and stilted way of fighting a war. Nonetheless I, Heihyawaeir Hfiyheaftas, leader of my family, senior of my pride, notable amongst my clan, will find these lost humans and bring them home. Hopefully I will also find some glory along the way.
- Extract from the log of the Senior captain of detached Aslan forces.
- 19y01m00w - Aslan cruisers Tai'ao and Ayakyuir enter Menorb system accompanied by the courier Terpsichore. Jump separation is just four hours. Message from out-system received; "This is Vice-Marshall Gebara commanding the HSWS Segomo. We are on a deep elliptic orbit to evade enemy action. Check and re-check your scan boards. The enemy are numerous and stealthy." A laser burst transmission from the Aslan cruisers gives coordinates for rendezvous with the FSS and a single ship in the deep out-system jumps away.
- 19y01m01w - HSWS Segomo arrives in Sector '00, -02' with half of her original crew and some significant battle damage. She is able, with a little trouble, to refuel from the FSS HSLS Lakapati and take on significant stocks of food and spares before jumping on to Sector '01, -02'.
- 19y01m02w - Segomo arrives in Sector '01, -02'. She is assigned a pair of Interstellar Cruiser escorts and tanks off of the fuel supplies available in the sector before setting a course for Home. Vice-Marshall Omarov issues other orders to the rest of her Task Force, taking it to Menorb.
- 19y02m00w - Segomo arrives in Home in company with a pair of smaller cruisers and is quickly ushered into shipyards around the main world. The crew are taken off by the MIC for debriefing. Notes from the debriefing of Vice-Marshall Gebara follow:
The attack didn't come as soon as we entered the system. We weren't unduly relaxed, but I stood my crews down from General Quarters after we came out of jump space and reassembled, as is standard practice. We thought it was going to be just another diplomatic visit - good food, fresh supplies and fuel, a few state dinners - and so no-one was peculiarly on edge as we transited towards the main world.
We were jumped while transiting - a fleet of stealth craft, at least four of them, ambushed my flotilla and fired the first shots. They had some kind of advanced radiological weapon, a weapon that punched holes straight through our armour plating and would have surely caused serious radiation sickness amongst the crews had it not been for our anti-rad coatings.
We returned fire as soon as we could get target locks. They might have been stealthy, but a good solid hit from a torpedo did serious damage every time it hit. I don't think they were as thickly armoured as our ships - certainly we were doing more damage than we might have expected against our own ships. We disabled at least one, I know because it had to be towed out of the combat area. Unfortunately, we also had three ships disabled in the fighting; the Apolake lost her drives and was sent tumbling, the Sekhmet was de-fanged and, I think, had her bridge shot out from under her. The Baal, the escort frigate, was completely destroyed in the fighting. Plant rupture or magazine detonation, I don't know. I doubt many hands survived that one.
They have the tactical speed - each of their ships is capable of short burns of at least 9G's - but we had the strategic speed. They couldn't match 6G's sustained, though neither could the diplomatic ship. We couldn't jump out either; I had a bad feeling about heading back to Inthe, and the other choices were deep space on an empty tank. I took the Segomo and the Ogun on a hard burn into solar orbit and ordered the Bá Kim to offer a surrender. As far as I know she and her crew were taken in without a shot being fired.
We were out there for eight weeks on survival rations and low power mode. I didn't think we could last much longer the two of us, so I had the Ogun tank off as much fuel as they could spare, give us their stores and take off half my crew. Everyone who stayed behind with me was a volunteer. The frigate took all the wounded and as many crew as we could pack in and headed for the in-system. I, and what remained of our crew, cut our rations further and did our best to hold on until relief came. And you did. And here I am.
- Initial description of events in Menorb according to Vice-Marshall Matxelen Gebara.
It is 19m02m00w. The Patrol Carrier Hadad and two more Frigates are completed, freeing up space in the yards.
What is due for construction?
[ ] Another Patrol Carrier
[ ] More Cruisers
[ ] Replacement Frigates
[ ] Other - write in
A courier can take orders North to Vice-Marshall Omarov. What will those orders contain?
[ ] They will urge caution, arguing for a measured response.
[ ] They will urge action, arguing for a strike.
[ ] They will urge something else - write in.
Please present votes as plans. Voting opens at
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- Pronouns
- He
Looks like we've ended up in a war. And without anyone to even serve a diplomatic protest to, it's going to be a shooting war until we start pulling enemy crew off of disabled ships to get them to talk.
Oh, we have ship names now
HSWS Segomo (CFA-Bpt) - the damaged one that was resqued, with Vice-Admiral Gebara on it. It's a tordedo-armed CFA.
HSWS Ogun - the other ship that escaped, the one that took other par of Segomo's crew - it's an older frigate FFE, flight I. It headed toward's in-system after the supplies run out, presumably had surrendered.
HSWS Baal - destroyed in battle, FFE flight II.
HSWS Apolake - lost drives in battle, presumably either captured or destroyed by enemy later. IC block III.
HSWS Sekhmet - Lost weapons, possibly the bridge was destroyed. Presumably either destroyed or captured by enemy later. IC block III.
Ba Kim - diplomatic courier, also surrendered.
On the meta-comments, this is probably TL11-10. Meson gun is TL11, and is radiological and ignores both armour and radiation shielding in HG2022, but does not ignore radiation shielding in older HG-2. So it's either does not ignore shielding normally, as in HG-2. Or It should've ignored it, but either didn't because it's a prototype TL10 version. Or Vice-Admiral is mistaken and it didn't ignore.
Not proud about meta-ing, but could'nt stop myself.
HSWS Segomo (CFA-Bpt) - the damaged one that was resqued, with Vice-Admiral Gebara on it. It's a tordedo-armed CFA.
HSWS Ogun - the other ship that escaped, the one that took other par of Segomo's crew - it's an older frigate FFE, flight I. It headed toward's in-system after the supplies run out, presumably had surrendered.
HSWS Baal - destroyed in battle, FFE flight II.
HSWS Apolake - lost drives in battle, presumably either captured or destroyed by enemy later. IC block III.
HSWS Sekhmet - Lost weapons, possibly the bridge was destroyed. Presumably either destroyed or captured by enemy later. IC block III.
Ba Kim - diplomatic courier, also surrendered.
On the meta-comments, this is probably TL11-10. Meson gun is TL11, and is radiological and ignores both armour and radiation shielding in HG2022, but does not ignore radiation shielding in older HG-2. So it's either does not ignore shielding normally, as in HG-2. Or It should've ignored it, but either didn't because it's a prototype TL10 version. Or Vice-Admiral is mistaken and it didn't ignore.
Not proud about meta-ing, but could'nt stop myself.
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Simply put, we moved too slowly and lost a frigate and her crew because of it. We need to be planning ahead to be able to deploy in force more rapidly.
[ANGRY NOISES]
Once more demonstrating the usefulness of jump tugs. If we had won this battle, those ships would still be losses despite being recoverable.
One-jump logistic limit. The Deeper Hope station will prove its worth, I think, and we'll want to make more.
IMO, this all but confirms that they're running with Superior Stealth. It's TL12, and against TL10 sensors, gives -8 to rolls. Since a roll is 2d8, that's huge. We should be operating under the expectation that every engagement will start with them taking the first shot.
Sounds like Meson guns, which are TL11-12, long ranged, and ignore armour while causing radiation damage to the crew. Horrific things.
This, I think, is key to defeating them. They've got the ability to fire the first shot, but in doing so, they enter the torpedo firing envelope, and if they want to evade with their 9 G reaction thrusters, the torpedoes can track. Same is probably true for missiles. If we mine our way forwards, they won't be able to attack us without risking serious losses when they try to pull back despite their otherwise superiority.
I think we should do a Flt II CFA. We're in the middle of a shooting war, and don't have the yardspace or time for anything too fancy. However, once the war's done, I want to immediately build a jump tugboat that can drag a minelayer and a defensive station to a distant system so that we don't have to deal with this kind of shit.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
The question now is whether we head in-system to demand answers; not sure there's any alternative, considering we have four Aslan cruisers, 2xCFAs, and multiple other craft available at this time.
Otherwise, we withdraw to our new outpost and turtle. But I don't think that's our best bet.
Otherwise, we withdraw to our new outpost and turtle. But I don't think that's our best bet.
[x] Plan Retribution
What is due for construction?
-[x] another patrol carrier
-[x] replacement frigates X2
What will those orders contain?
-[x] They will urge something else - write in
--[x] Give Omarov command authority to pursue hostilities as she sees fit.
--[x] Authorize use of weapons with radioactive effects against targets in vacuum (ships, stations, other)
--[x] Authorize bombardment of industry that could support war effort. (Shipyards, mining, refining, etc)
Additional write in
-[x] Ask shipbuilding industry to begin drawing up plans for a 6 jump capable warship. Secondary focus on maximizing speed. Hit and run and raiding are the envisioned use cases for the warship.
What is due for construction?
-[x] another patrol carrier
-[x] replacement frigates X2
What will those orders contain?
-[x] They will urge something else - write in
--[x] Give Omarov command authority to pursue hostilities as she sees fit.
--[x] Authorize use of weapons with radioactive effects against targets in vacuum (ships, stations, other)
--[x] Authorize bombardment of industry that could support war effort. (Shipyards, mining, refining, etc)
Additional write in
-[x] Ask shipbuilding industry to begin drawing up plans for a 6 jump capable warship. Secondary focus on maximizing speed. Hit and run and raiding are the envisioned use cases for the warship.
Apparently this had already happened - "Vice-Marshall Omarov issues other orders to the rest of her Task Force, taking it to Menorb."
I think our FFEs and ICs could fare a bit better, if they had radiation shielding. But only CFAs had it.
I wanted to refit the Monitor after the Escort carrier, but it also does not have RadShielding, and that a big minus.
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We can't take a passive approach. The enemy utilizes stealth ships with a radiological payload that is known to strike into rear areas of a combat zone. We must seize or destroy anything that could support a war effort against us, then search further for the enemy
We are past demanding answers. This is the second time we have been attacked unprovoked, without warning or challenge. We should assume these planets are contributing either willingly or under duress. We need to cut their ability to support the enemy, and then search for the enemy in other systems. This needs to be dealt with, otherwise we will have a gun figuratively pointed at our head.
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
"Demand answers" is polite language for "we are gonna burn your shit to the ground to get our people back".
I think we need to rely on CFAs and larger ships for expeditionary missions moving forward, with smaller tonnage relegated to system defense boats for maximized armor, speed, and firepower.
I think we need to rely on CFAs and larger ships for expeditionary missions moving forward, with smaller tonnage relegated to system defense boats for maximized armor, speed, and firepower.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not really applicable here, they waited until we jumped past Natoko and Inthe to spring their ambush in Menorb. We certainly shouldn't expect to be able to refuel in any of those systems and that leaves a refueling station at 01-02 completely useless for any force not jumping to Natoko. We've still not rebuilt the one at Deep Hope anyway so this is looking a bit too far ahead.
Yeah. Would would help instead, it's if the Gebara's fleet had a FSS behind them in v'00, -02'. Then they would be able to jump back to it and refuel. This would save the FFE and more of CFAs crew.
well, we did want to replace the ICs with CFA-sized escorts.
I think ironically it's a FFE-sized ship that could have future - just not as escort, but as a torpedo boat/"skirmisher".
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They're clearly operating around Natoko, which means we will likely need to conduct operations there.
I'm in favour of establishing a station in 0,-2 as well, though.
- Location
- Wörms, the half continent
Given the higher tech levels on display, I do worry that if we're too aggressive here we could get into a war we don't have the capability to fight. While our torps were reported to do serious damage, these are stealth craft, and it seems possible to me that whether for cost or other reasons that this results in a much more lightly armoured ship than their "mainline" naval elements.