- Location
- California
[X] OPLAN: Revival
Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
- Start date
- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
11-2: Administrative Questions
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
Available Budget: 3692.649MCr
Current Dockyard Usage: 7,000Dtons
Current Pilot Usage: 79/80
The Future of Command
The first 'Major' stations of the HSWS will be further reinforced with each being assigned a Vice-Admiral who has the initiative and responsibility of action to avoid another crisis like that which we experienced with Hermosa. These stations will be:
Home Fleet - Vice-Admiral Isa Burakgazi
- One CFA, acting flagship
- Two ICbIII
- Four FFE (various models)
Cassalon Station - Vice-Admiral Anisa Mendoza
- One CFA, acting flagship
- Two ICbIII
Heimdall Station - Vice-Admiral Belinay Celik
- One CFA, acting flagship
- Two ICbIII
Expeditionary Flotilla - Vice-Admiral Matxalen Gebara
- One CFA, acting flagship
- Two ICbIII
- Four FFE (various models)
- One FFS
Scout Flotilla - Vice Admiral Amir Adabayo
- Two ISbII
- Two DSS
- One FFS
Maintenance & Reserve - No Formal Command
- One CFA
- Four ICbIII
- Four FFE (various models)
- One MAT
This current structure is based on the available ships that the HSWS has, normalising each posting into a flagship, two escorts, and additional patrol ships where possible. Any single station can be reinforced by the Expeditionary Flotilla in a maximum of a month, though generally it will be rotated into one-jump range of a flashpoint depending on current experiences. For example, the ad-hoc force named 'Staging Point Reserve' in the Hermosan crisis would have instead been the purview of the Expeditionary Flotilla and that is how it will be from here on out.
These forces will fluctuate as new ships are constructed over the next five to ten years. With a third of the force in standard maintenance or training at any one time, this limits how much can be deployed in the 'standard' order of things, though it should be possible to improve those numbers during a time of particular need. This does, however, raise an obvious weak point - We have a requirement for four CFA postings and only five hulls. We need a sixth to ensure there can always be one on station at each required posting.
Hard Construction
There are choices to be made regarding the new versions of the redesigned ships. First is the advanced scout ship, the thus-far-named Multi-Mission Surveyor. Growing to 1,000dTons, this hull would be able to complete the mission of both the IS and the DSS in one platform, including:
- Carrying sufficient probes to create a dense net around several worlds.
- An observatory for long range scouting.
- Fuel, supplies and comfortable enough conditions for deployments lasting up to six weeks.
- The capacity to carry a diplomatic team and FLF honour guard, allowing the ship to act as an ad-hoc diplomatic vessel.
[ ] This ship will do nicely. Order X of them (Write in X)
[ ] It would be perfect except for X (write in minor alterations or suggestions)
[ ] This is terrible. It must be capable of (write in major alterations or a new design)
Meanwhile, the flight II Flotilla Supply Ship is barely recognisable compared to its not 15 year old cousin. Performing the same role with greatly boosted capacity, the distributed hull of this newly planned replacement for the FSS would increase it's fuel supply (the main limit on long range operations) by a full 25%. With half of its tonnage given over to fuel and just under 10% of the hull for supplies, it is a remarkable development over the previous vessel. It does not, however, fit any armour, as the designers cannot imagine that an FSS engaged in direct combat is going to survive anyway.
It is also, vitally, half the price of the previous FSS.
Comments from the Senior Command on the FSSfII:
[ ] This ship will do nicely. Order X of them (Write in X)
[ ] It would be perfect except for X (write in minor alterations or suggestions)
[ ] This is terrible. It must be capable of (write in major alterations or a new design)
The design of the Multi-Mission Surveyor raises a third question. If the MMS can carry a diplomatic party when it is not busy scouting, should we simply build these instead of building a separate class of diplomatic ships?
Comments from the Senior Command on Diplomatic Duty Ships:
[ ] We should simply build a broad run of MMS ships to conduct diplomatic and survey missions.
[ ] We could build a variant of the MMS designed for surface landings and diplomacy.
[ ] No, we should continue to design a flight II Diplomatic Ship.
Please present votes as plans. Voting opens at . One additional question just for me and not part of the main update. Would you like to start giving ship classes names or do you like the 'functional' system we have?
Maybe we should hand over the responsibility of diplomacy and operating a diplomatic ship to the Home government. Usually militaries don't operate as the diplomatic corps. It would allow us to focus our spending on our actual responsibilities.
MMS:
[ ] This is not good enough. Since MMS would have to act alone, unlike previous scouts, it should have redundant capabilities. Also, our gas mining stations use scoops to get gas from atmopshere, which could be useful on scouts too. It should: have two shuttles with at least one full hangar (to run repairs in), two workshops to repair/modify/produce parts in case if anything is broken, more laboratory space and a second sensor station. Also it would be beneficial to have a small gas scoop for research purposes.
(there is a "research scoop" component in "Rim Expeditions" - it cannot grab meaningfull amounts of fuel gas, but can take atmospheric samples)
FSSfII:
[ ] With increasing autonomy periods, it would be beneficial to have at least one workshop on FSS ship. Could we also put gas mining/refining equipment on it? If it could produce and replenish fuel from gas giants on its own, this would be a great boon)
[ ] This is not good enough. Since MMS would have to act alone, unlike previous scouts, it should have redundant capabilities. Also, our gas mining stations use scoops to get gas from atmopshere, which could be useful on scouts too. It should: have two shuttles with at least one full hangar (to run repairs in), two workshops to repair/modify/produce parts in case if anything is broken, more laboratory space and a second sensor station. Also it would be beneficial to have a small gas scoop for research purposes.
(there is a "research scoop" component in "Rim Expeditions" - it cannot grab meaningfull amounts of fuel gas, but can take atmospheric samples)
FSSfII:
[ ] With increasing autonomy periods, it would be beneficial to have at least one workshop on FSS ship. Could we also put gas mining/refining equipment on it? If it could produce and replenish fuel from gas giants on its own, this would be a great boon)
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
- Pronouns
- It/She/They
Can you book and page reference workshop, just so I'm certain what you mean
EDIT: Oh it's literally in High Guard lmao
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Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
I'm not sure we can that much extra capability out of the new survey vessels without ballooning the cost etc but worth looking at.
I'm mildly ok with letting them double as diplo vessels and making ships for the diplomats to use tbh. We are the ones who often make first contact.
I'm mildly ok with letting them double as diplo vessels and making ships for the diplomats to use tbh. We are the ones who often make first contact.
[ ] Plan: Comprehensive
-[ ] MMS - This is not good enough. Since MMS would have to act alone, unlike previous scouts, it should have redundant capabilities. Also, our gas mining stations use scoops to get gas from atmopshere, which could be useful on scouts too. It should: have two shuttles with at least one full hangar (to run repairs in), two workshops to repair/modify/produce parts in case if anything is broken, more laboratory space and a second sensor station. Also it would be beneficial to have a small gas scoop for research purposes. If we are to use it for lesser diplomatic tasks, also a briefing room.
-[ ] FSS - With increasing autonomy periods, it would be beneficial to have at least one workshop on FSS ship. Could we also put gas mining/refining equipment on it? If it could produce and replenish fuel from gas giants on its own, this would be a great boon)
-[ ] Both. MMS can conduct first contact missions and some of the routine diplomatic tasks. A dedicated grander and more impressive flight II Diplomatic Ship can demonstrate both our potence and seriousness of our intentions in important and sensitive cases - such as were our negotiations with Hermosa.
-[ ] MMS - This is not good enough. Since MMS would have to act alone, unlike previous scouts, it should have redundant capabilities. Also, our gas mining stations use scoops to get gas from atmopshere, which could be useful on scouts too. It should: have two shuttles with at least one full hangar (to run repairs in), two workshops to repair/modify/produce parts in case if anything is broken, more laboratory space and a second sensor station. Also it would be beneficial to have a small gas scoop for research purposes. If we are to use it for lesser diplomatic tasks, also a briefing room.
-[ ] FSS - With increasing autonomy periods, it would be beneficial to have at least one workshop on FSS ship. Could we also put gas mining/refining equipment on it? If it could produce and replenish fuel from gas giants on its own, this would be a great boon)
-[ ] Both. MMS can conduct first contact missions and some of the routine diplomatic tasks. A dedicated grander and more impressive flight II Diplomatic Ship can demonstrate both our potence and seriousness of our intentions in important and sensitive cases - such as were our negotiations with Hermosa.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd be curious as to what additional capabilities we could get from increasing the MMS' size to 1.5kt or even 2kt. The most obvious would be additional jump fuel but are there other things that could be added? Perhaps we could also use that space to turn the MMS into a full replacement for both the surveyors and the diplomatic ship, rather than just as a ad-hoc diplomatic vessel since we do have them making first contact.
We can do a Modular hull option, maybe? Basic ship to which mission modules - laboratories, diplo-quarters, additional fuel tanks(?) are added, depending on the mission.
Like for a basic mission we can use basic lab and basic diplo-modules, for a dedicated diplo-mission basc and "advanced" diplo modules, for a longer-ranger scouting more tanks?
But this would make planning their missions much more complicated for both us and QM. So maybe not.
upd.
Probably better to use a single big mission module? "A first contatc module", with limited diplospace and labs, "a dedicated diplomodule", "a comprehensive science module", "a long range scout module" (with less labs and more fuel)? And of course a basic ship itself with workshops and some other utility stuff
because if we would have to combine 2-3 different modules for each mission this would be a chore.
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I don't think we're going to get an effective survey vessel with only 2 jumps. There's not a lot to explore that's only 1 jump away from controlled/neutral territory.
Sidenote: I wonder if we could have an expedition jump to Keoiri, buy fuel from the Aslan, and then travel further east. They should be willing to sell.
Sidenote: I wonder if we could have an expedition jump to Keoiri, buy fuel from the Aslan, and then travel further east. They should be willing to sell.
[x] Plan: Swiss army ride
-[x] MMS - This is not good enough. Since MMS would have to act alone, unlike previous scouts, it should have redundant capabilities. Modular-built ship could both act as an MMS and as a dedicated diplomatic ship - and maybe we would design for it som new roles in future?
--[x] As an MMS proper it should have: More internal (or external?) jump fuel; two shuttles with at least one full hangar (to run repairs in); two workshops to repair/modify/produce spare parts; more laboratory space; a second sensor station; a small gas scoop for research purposes;
--[x] As a diplomatic ship: large briefing room; gourmet kitchen; wet bar; hot tubs; enough stores and impressive common rooms to wine and dine foreing dignitaries and persons of interest. Both diplo-VIP and basic MMS should have a medbay, obviously.
-[x] FSS - With increasing autonomy periods, it would be beneficial to have at least one workshop on FSS ship. Could we also put gas mining/refining equipment on it? If it could produce and replenish fuel from gas giants on its own, this would be a great boon.
-[x] Modular MMS can conduct first contact and less important diplomatic work in basic configuration, and run more important diplomatic missions in the VIP-configuration.
We use external fuel tanks to offset this, but they are one-time only (unless FSS would recover it)
-[x] MMS - This is not good enough. Since MMS would have to act alone, unlike previous scouts, it should have redundant capabilities. Modular-built ship could both act as an MMS and as a dedicated diplomatic ship - and maybe we would design for it som new roles in future?
--[x] As an MMS proper it should have: More internal (or external?) jump fuel; two shuttles with at least one full hangar (to run repairs in); two workshops to repair/modify/produce spare parts; more laboratory space; a second sensor station; a small gas scoop for research purposes;
--[x] As a diplomatic ship: large briefing room; gourmet kitchen; wet bar; hot tubs; enough stores and impressive common rooms to wine and dine foreing dignitaries and persons of interest. Both diplo-VIP and basic MMS should have a medbay, obviously.
-[x] FSS - With increasing autonomy periods, it would be beneficial to have at least one workshop on FSS ship. Could we also put gas mining/refining equipment on it? If it could produce and replenish fuel from gas giants on its own, this would be a great boon.
-[x] Modular MMS can conduct first contact and less important diplomatic work in basic configuration, and run more important diplomatic missions in the VIP-configuration.
We use external fuel tanks to offset this, but they are one-time only (unless FSS would recover it)
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Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
[X] OPLAN: Renewal
-[X] MMS - it must be capable of its current capabilities, as well as carrying four jumps worth of fuel internally. Add a biosphere and some conference/meeting rooms to better reflect its diplomatic role (and to provide for crew comfort on longer surveys). It should be streamlined so it can land itself for diplomatic meetings. Increase tonnage to achieve this.
-[X] FSS - investigate whether self-refining capability is possible. Add fuel scoops for recovery of unrefined fuel and internal processing and storage, if possible, for up to 10% of refined fuel capacity per day (200 tons unrefined storage/processing). If possible, keep increased tonnage at or below 500 tons.
-[X] We should simply build a broad run of MMS ships to conduct diplomatic and survey missions.
-[X] MMS - it must be capable of its current capabilities, as well as carrying four jumps worth of fuel internally. Add a biosphere and some conference/meeting rooms to better reflect its diplomatic role (and to provide for crew comfort on longer surveys). It should be streamlined so it can land itself for diplomatic meetings. Increase tonnage to achieve this.
-[X] FSS - investigate whether self-refining capability is possible. Add fuel scoops for recovery of unrefined fuel and internal processing and storage, if possible, for up to 10% of refined fuel capacity per day (200 tons unrefined storage/processing). If possible, keep increased tonnage at or below 500 tons.
-[X] We should simply build a broad run of MMS ships to conduct diplomatic and survey missions.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Considering how we've just seen firsthand what a misjump can result in, I would strongly prefer to avoid the regular usage of drop tanks.
If we're not building any additional dedicated diplomatic ships then I'd like for the MMS to also have the same capabilities as our current one. Streamlining so that it can land as a embassy (and incidentally also give it built-in fuel scoops), some high staterooms with briefing/conference rooms for proper meetings. A green space/biosphere would also be useful for the longer missions that increased jump fuel would result in so that the crew can have some fresh air in addition to its other uses diplomatically.
If we're not building any additional dedicated diplomatic ships then I'd like for the MMS to also have the same capabilities as our current one. Streamlining so that it can land as a embassy (and incidentally also give it built-in fuel scoops), some high staterooms with briefing/conference rooms for proper meetings. A green space/biosphere would also be useful for the longer missions that increased jump fuel would result in so that the crew can have some fresh air in addition to its other uses diplomatically.
My main concern is that if we intend to use scouts as lone ships, they would have to be much more self-reliant than our usual. Previously we scouted in pairs. If one would suffer some damage, the other would be able to assist, or resque the crew, or at the very least maybe run away and bring the news of the danger that wrecked their colleagues.
If we send one scout and it gets wrecked, we just lose it and have no idea what happened.
We can of course send scouts in pairs, but the general idea was sorta to "optimise pilots" by having larger scout ships that could do their work alone.
Though having two newer scouts is still more efficient that our current configuration of two IS + two DSS scouts.
If we send one scout and it gets wrecked, we just lose it and have no idea what happened.
We can of course send scouts in pairs, but the general idea was sorta to "optimise pilots" by having larger scout ships that could do their work alone.
Though having two newer scouts is still more efficient that our current configuration of two IS + two DSS scouts.
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- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X] OPLAN: Renewal
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
I've revised to include biosphere and meeting spaces (which I suppose can double as rec rooms or crew spaces when not in use).
I figure we'll still want them to operate in pairs (or solo, with a set rendezvous so the others can go looking for them if they don't turn up). Building four would be able to replace our current four DSS / two IS and net us a two pilot increase. Potentially four, if we end up retiring the original diplo cruiser as well.
- Location
- Somewhere in the stacks
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] OPLAN: Renewal
[X] OPLAN: Renewal
[X] OPLAN: Renewal
