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Touhou: Scarlet Devil M̶a̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ Mafia

Should Day 2 be extended by another twenty-four hours?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 83.3%

  • No

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
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End of Night 5/Start of Day 6
  • Threadmarks
    • The party of nine from where they had entered in the night comes out to a party of seven, all of them looking as two more of their numbers have vanished. And so like every night prior, the two missing are revealed.



    The first is revealed as Reisen Inaba, Moon Rabbit on Earth (@Shalmoa), who 'died' from a Knock on the Head.



    The second is revealed as Alice Margatroid, Seven-Colored Puppet Master (@dinomannitro6), who 'died' from being Knocked Out In A Closet.

    And a message is left upon the table to read.

    Reevals needed on Walker's flip
    Everyone needs progressions now IMO
    Hobo's vote NAI even if late due to self-pres
    Other votes probably won't get good info at this point
    Not sure if absences are notable right now (Dino/Comi, YP to a lesser extent)
    Figure one more affordable miss ATM but needs serious discussion given game length
    Probably makes it a good spot to fill out claim space
    Wiadi, Comi, Atoms are the only unclaimed ATM
    Atoms can clear with N5 Town kill, Wiadi/Comi mech-locked out of Odd-Night TKP
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    And so the seven members of the party begin the sixth day…

    End of Day is at
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Logos said:
    For Clown Bean, the weirdness was in #165. At the time, it read to me like pushing the argument about someone being a prime nightkill target and thus scum if they live too long into town consciousness without getting particularly attached to it. If I recall correctly, that kind of argument is pretty bad for town as a solve tactic, especially if set up, because scum can keep holding off on that shot, and town tends to never quite find it persuasive. Thus, what the argument tends to accomplish is protecting a player. That points to either Town-Town with either a mason or a soul read, or a scum pair, and both of those options felt weird. T/T because I just don't see that hard a soul read happening off so little interaction and don't think a mason would do that. S/S because that's a lot of wine to wade through for a gambit, and I think any sane scum chat would counsel for Clown Bean to not reveal that early. Between the two, S/S world felt a bit less weird.
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    Sorry to disappoint, that was me being bitter about a pointless reveal, especially since the role requires secrecy to actually be effective.
     
    The Game Designer in me kinda just wings eirs hands and gives a quiet little "nooooooo" seeing a vote manipulation role claim Day 1
     
    hugh analysis complete

    Currently think Zaealix worse and will switch back to them if nothing happens before EoD/bed (whichever comes first) but honestly that's a lot of posts with a whole lot of nothing (besides vaguely weakly trying to help 99Lies) so sure I'll join the pressure

    [X] Vote hugh_donnetono
     
    -Rosen said:
    Votes are at 6-4*-3-1 in terms of 99L-YP-Zae-Hugh (*Assuming Bean is truthing about VP), so honestly it's probably not a bad look to add more to the mix. I still stand that 99L is the best vote here, but am in general agreement that there doesn't seem to be any one great direction to go from a purely solving perspective. I'm more than willing to shake things up a little more for EoD with that in mind.

    [x] Vote hugh_donnetono

    @hugh_donnetono Hello can you send some reads out thanks.
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    Yes, BTW.
     
    Nopeguy said:
    Hugh and hermit since they have been defending you which means they're either giving to much benefit of the doubt or scum
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    Shalmoa said:
    Not Nictis but thread is dead atm so I'll give it a try.

    Is when NinetyNineLies suggests the claim vanilla thing initially, on page 14.

    Before this, we had... the tail end of the lore solve discussion, which I don't feel is connected or worth distracting from at all?

    Followed by this post (directly before the above quote):

    Which is a thread that was started by Logos getting finished up again.

    99L's post seems to me to be directly in response to this, so it isn't really the core distraction no matter how I look at it? It takes a perfectly reasonable opinion post from YP, soaks it in a fuel of your choice, and ignites the thread into something terrible though.

    Trying to evaluate what the potential positive impact of 99L responding to this post in this way at all doesn't really get me anywhere. I don't see it yet, anyways. But I also don't really see the value in it for scum!99L as a distraction, either. It feels more like "this would be info that would be useful for me, gimme" in that case. Which, IMO, kinda explains the doubling and tripling down.

    Next 99L post. Is this a distraction, or just an attempt to claim towniness? It's a bad attempt to claim towniness even if it is, but I'm reading that as more likely than a distraction, since the focus at this moment in the thread was already on 99L? I mean, this is still Page 14, after all!

    In my opinion, this supports the "it's all about my role and this info being useful to me" viewpoint, not the intentional distraction point, because this is only like two posts after the last one.

    This makes me throw the "99L is playing strategically as a townie or mafioso" idea out the window. Lean jester or townie with a shovel and no idea how to stop digging, TBQH.

    Now, later on, Page 18, we revisit the idea of dropping more info, because information is the currency of mafia games? (I personally disagree, death is the currency of mafia games.)

    I think it's just a critical mismatch of values between the thread in general and 99L's own viewpoint.

    I really feel like 99L is valuing information sharing as a good thing in spite of the thread's objections and is still trying to play to that value assessment more than anything? But, if this is a distraction, what is it a distraction from?

    Well, this is post #441. Interesting things before it are, in my opinion:
    - #426: Absum calls out 99L/Zaea as potentially taking up too much attention, but kinda arguing against voting like that.
    - #428: Hermit longposting on overall reads.
    - #434: Logos votes Zaealix with a sort of "sounds like early light bussing" argument", targeted towards.
    - #436: dnm6 posts a nothingburger of a reads list but calls out 99L again.

    Like, still not seeing a strong reason to believe it's distracting from anything?

    I think 99L sees the play as positive value and is doing it kinda genuinely, TBH?
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    @Nopeguy: Out of curiosity and if you're around, still feel the same way about 99L?
     
    @Absum I'm curious on what roles you were assuming would assign to 99Lies, my logic on it was that it was either a high value role that proves itself, hence why 99Lies would be expecting to die to nightkill and not vote, or some role that wants to be lying about it. Jester fits the behavior, Vet make sense of amping up role value and scum works in a sense of trying to make yourself beyond reproach.

    No pressure on this, feel free to ignore.
     
    Byzantine said:
    You can literally always just [] Null.
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    Byzantine said:
    See, at this point it now just feels like you are parroting whatever the last thing you were told to do. Which is weird.
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    …Now this…
    With this I have something workable.
    Rosen was a gut read I had no evidence for.
    Absun was self-satisfying.
    Shalmoa was a counter-vote, plain and simple,
    And 99L is the Lost Townie.
    But this?
    This has some intent to it. It's not a townie using bad wording or not following through.
    More importantly, a number of people agree with me:
    Votes shouldn't be sat on by Town.
    [X]Vote Byzantine
     
    Also totally fine with 99L claiming, TBH. I'm pretty sure 99L is town but also pretty sure that most of us will be right back here tomorrow if we don't get that claim. And I sure don't want an investigative to have to waste a night or a claim trying to save him from a miselim.
     
    Zaealix said:
    …Now this…
    With this I have something workable.
    Rosen was a gut read I had no evidence for.
    Absun was self-satisfying.
    Shalmoa was a counter-vote, plain and simple,
    And 99L is the Lost Townie.
    But this?
    This has some intent to it. It's not a townie using bad wording or not following through.
    More importantly, a number of people agree with me:
    Votes shouldn't be sat on by Town.
    [X]Vote Byzantine
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    Huh? I apologize, but I cannot parse what you are trying to say.
     
    It's bodyguard. Hong Meiling the bodyguard. One of its caveats is that I die if I properly protect someone from a nightkill.
     
    Let me see what I missed oh wait and oh hell no I am not going to be able to read through six pages of discussion unless the Sakuya player slows down time for me
     
    Nictis said:
    @Absum I'm curious on what roles you were assuming would assign to 99Lies, my logic on it was that it was either a high value role that proves itself, hence why 99Lies would be expecting to die to nightkill and not vote, or some role that wants to be lying about it. Jester fits the behavior, Vet make sense of amping up role value and scum works in a sense of trying to make yourself beyond reproach.

    No pressure on this, feel free to ignore.
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    Ah. I immediately see where we differ lol. It's my perennial problem: I suck nuts at gambits and assume mucho truth to everything someone says because that's what I do. I assumed 99Lies was claiming Bodyguard (no bp) or self-redirect. Given the "I am definitely dying by nightkill" those 2 stood out to me as like, able to cause that for themselves. It matches also with

    neverm mind he claimed
     
    Absum said:
    Ah. I immediately see where we differ lol. It's my perennial problem: I suck nuts at gambits and assume mucho truth to everything someone says because that's what I do. I assumed 99Lies was claiming Bodyguard (no bp) or self-redirect. Given the "I am definitely dying by nightkill" those 2 stood out to me as like, able to cause that for themselves. It matches also with

    neverm mind he claimed
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    Well, you were right and tbh my brain just ignores the idea of bodyguards without vests or a reaction kill. Always just seems like a weird role to include to me, but does track well with the information revealed.

    Now what to do with this info...
     
    The only thing that makes me defend 99Ls at this point is that he mentioned Hong Meiling the Bodyguard and before that I believe that he said he knew nothing about Touhou, so

    I mean, if we still want to make this a policy vote about "Don't make stupid comments as your entrance" to teach him a lesson, as I said in both my walls, I'm in
     
    The reveal is already bad enough, let's not push for someone if you think they're town. Already got a lesson. The question should be down to if you believe

    Wow, if only this could've been predicted btw
     
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