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Time of the Gods: Into the Amber Age

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I would also like to remind fear voters that going to sleep after you have pissed of the hero gods' people gives them a prime opportunity to establish themselves near you
 
Okay, I've thought it over and I think I can explain why I want to go Fear path:
Storytelling. This game is all about stories. I think a fear deity would make for a better story.

Okay, absolutely both Faith and Fear spirits benefit from doing awesome things and generally causing a scene and so forth. Nevertheless, Faith actions tend to get a steady DE return from 'Bless the crops. Bless the health of our people. Bless the weather. Bless the warriors of our tribe.' These are conservative investments, usually providing minimal DE return, but they also do civ-building so they're always taken.

Other actions on the Faith path- like creating a race of lizardmen or creating a giant firestorm or turning aside a sandstorm- are more impressive but usually reactive. You budget whatever DE is left over from the various blessings and other maintenance actions to deal with the problems efficiently. There may be some novelty in the way you do things, but the priority is on dealing with the problems.

I'm hoping Fear path is different. Creativity in provoking new fears and imaginative methods of dealing with problems is just rewarded drastically more than on the faith path. Blessings which would be included in the DE 'budget' provide less return and so may not need to be included, rendering the turn-by-turn actions much less cluttered. Plans should become a bit more distinguishable by theme rather than by the numbers involved- do we gamble on a race of lizard-men or try a tsunami of blood? Perhaps we should try stealing the moon? What pantheon can we piss off without getting wrecked?

Again, I understand there are possiblities either way. But the Fear path seems like a more proactive and dynamic playstyle as opposed to the relative predictability and reactionary nature of faith play.

Fear path rewards us disproportionately for screwing with people for funsies. Keep that in mind.
 
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Reader of all said:
I would also like to remind fear voters that going to sleep after you have pissed of the hero gods' people gives them a prime opportunity to establish themselves near you
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Not only do Fear spirits not sleep, but:
Powerofmind said:
You actually have an especially powerful starting position for a fear spirit, whose greatest weakness is typically the loss of their avatar resulting in very easy shrine attacks and subsequent death. As an elemental spirit, your avatar is superfluous for elemental powers, meaning that even while dispersed it isn't too hard to gain DE for fear; and as a water spirit, both your main shrine's location and your powers are very conducive to fending off both physically and magically oriented spirits that try to attack you as well as mortal interference for an extended time.
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+ a bunch of other quotes about how permadeath is way harder than experience in the last quest tells us that i'm too lazy to look up
 
Here's the thing, though. Screwing with people for funsies is no way to actually build anything that lasts. And not even in the Civ Style, but in the 'We want to do long term cool things' sense.

I'm absolutely sure that choosing Fear Spirits will lock off a lot of the ideas you so blithely assume we'll be able to do, at least until we grow powerful enough that the paths between the two start to converge again.

I'm simply just completely uninterested in Fear Spirits, and I also doubt that there will be that level of mechanical freedom that you assume, where everything's completely wide open.

I mean, unless we get even more creative, each new 'fear' will just involve driving the people around us into the ground more and more. Fear Spirit doesn't really seem like a thing that has a long lifespan, all things considered, when you think about the fact that meanwhile other civilizations have gods that at least try (even if they fuck up all the time and have obsessions) to actually do something to deserve perhaps the slightest hint of actual reverence or respect. Whereas Fear Spirits are, "I'll not do this evil thing, aren't I such a good guy, if you fear me."

Again, at least until it gets into such a high level (wherein stuff converges) that why should I care about it right now?
 
[] Sleep for Upgrades

Thanks @veekie! I can't wait to see the Gaerig's wicked brood!

[X] Plan Fear Path

Really? Ugh, why do we have to go the yucky Faith path... Well, strategic voting is a go, I guess.
 
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The Laurent said:
Here's the thing, though. Screwing with people for funsies is no way to actually build anything that lasts. And not even in the Civ Style, but in the 'We want to do long term cool things' sense.

I'm absolutely sure that choosing Fear Spirits will lock off a lot of the ideas you so blithely assume we'll be able to do, at least until we grow powerful enough that the paths between the two start to converge again.

I'm simply just completely uninterested in Fear Spirits, and I also doubt that there will be that level of mechanical freedom that you assume, where everything's completely wide open.

I mean, unless we get even more creative, each new 'fear' will just involve driving the people around us into the ground more and more. Fear Spirit doesn't really seem like a thing that has a long lifespan, all things considered, when you think about the fact that meanwhile other civilizations have gods that at least try (even if they fuck up all the time and have obsessions) to actually do something to deserve perhaps the slightest hint of actual reverence or respect. Whereas Fear Spirits are, "I'll not do this evil thing, aren't I such a good guy, if you fear me."

Again, at least until it gets into such a high level (wherein stuff converges) that why should I care about it right now?
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With the way the game's mechanics work, Fear spirits are a necessary element of a successful pantheon, even at the highest tiers of play. In a group of faith gods who would otherwise run out of means of producing legend reliably, the pantheon's Fear gods ensure that legend keeps flowing, and gods unsuited to slotted positions in the pantheon are appropriately embarrassed.
 
The Laurent said:
Here's the thing, though. Screwing with people for funsies is no way to actually build anything that lasts. And not even in the Civ Style, but in the 'We want to do long term cool things' sense.

I'm absolutely sure that choosing Fear Spirits will lock off a lot of the ideas you so blithely assume we'll be able to do, at least until we grow powerful enough that the paths between the two start to converge again.

I'm simply just completely uninterested in Fear Spirits, and I also doubt that there will be that level of mechanical freedom that you assume, where everything's completely wide open.

I mean, unless we get even more creative, each new 'fear' will just involve driving the people around us into the ground more and more. Fear Spirit doesn't really seem like a thing that has a long lifespan, all things considered, when you think about the fact that meanwhile other civilizations have gods that at least try (even if they fuck up all the time and have obsessions) to actually do something to deserve perhaps the slightest hint of actual reverence or respect. Whereas Fear Spirits are, "I'll not do this evil thing, aren't I such a good guy, if you fear me."

Again, at least until it gets into such a high level (wherein stuff converges) that why should I care about it right now?
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Lailoken said:
The djinni had prowled the wastes since time immemorial. Travelers and traders feared the stories of ships and caravans covered in storms of sea or sand and disappearing without a trace. They feared the faceless, shifting wastes and the unreliability of the oases.

-but, they also knew that commerce stretched between even the greatest foes. They made their sacrifices. The creature of misfortune became a creature of fickle chance to be placated. They appeased the djinni, and in doing so discovered something which changed them both. The djinni was a creature of chance and fear, but he could enforce order. If two wary partners wanted to enforce their agreement they could mutually agree to a conditional curse brought down upon the breaker, and purchase it with a small sacrifice in every contract. Never certain, but often and severe enough to provoke anxiety and deter. The consent of the afflicted, in effect "worshipers" themselves, gave the djinni's wrath reach to wherever they might roam regardless of distance, domain, or ward. The feared djinni, a creature of chance, became the Enforcer. The People had discovered their way to maintain trust, order, and faithfulness within, between, and across any language or culture. Every agreement fed him with the implied fear of and trust in divine retribution, and he parceled that strength back out in ever more dramatic and impressive examples to feed the legend and strengthen his people's social order.

In time, the extensiveness of his reach and the extreme difficulty of binding him without his consent were called upon to weave and enforce order among the various protector spirits of the faith, eventually knitting together a loyal pantheon beneath him out of the spirits who understood the value of unity and impartial equity through covenant, and ultimately preferred the devil they knew.

Fear Spirit: The Enforcer
Nature: Dichotomy
Domains:
  • Law
  • Fortune
  • Awe
Skills:
  • Intimidation
  • Magic
  • Trade
  • Diplomacy
  • Performance: Creatively ironic punishments
Dominant fear spirit in his lands. He protects by absorbing available mana and starving other fear spirits. Faith income paid in tribute by subordinate faith spirits operating under his Aegis and management. Bonuses from player suggestions for especially humorous punishments.


Lawful Evil or Chaotic Evil- why not both?
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Reader of all said:
Okay so my new plan

[x] Plan Get Faith and get orb (or plan Veekie's + Laurent's plan)
[X] Bless Petitioner for Sacrifices - Expend some of your DE to empower those who come to your shrine or pray to you in exchange for more offerings. Current Skills that can be blessed: Astrology, Navigation.
-[X] Expend <8> DE on petitioners
[X] Guide the Ships - Guide and navigate the boats in person, sending them where they need to be. Costs: 6 DE
[X] Roil Waters** - You bend the waters to your command against your enemies, sending larger waves at the settlement near you, or creating deadly sprays and whirlpools that will capsize any boat they dare put upon the surface of your waters. Costs: 5 DE
[X] Build a Shrine - Bully, threaten, persuade, or cajole mortals into building a shrine to your magnificence. Can fail until Faith or Fear is at least 1. Maximum shrines 0/2.
[X] Declare yourself Gaerig, spirit of the sea, and demand offerings! Costs: 5 DE
[X] Purchase Faith 1 for free
[X] Purchase Elemental Avatar - 4 Legend, 4-3 years
[X] Upgrade Avatar 1->2 - 2-2 Legend, 0 years

Okay @The Laurent , @veekie , @Darkcrest , @Van Ropen , @Abby Normal , @Seventeen , @nixter , @Void Stalker , @lioli

My apologies for mass tagging can you please vote for my plan it has us sleeping for the stuff Veekie wants as well as gaining DE for next turn and establishing our worshipper base
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...If we go to sleep we can't do any of hte other things. Also, PoM is trying out a thing, so if you want to sleep for upgrades you can't vote for what we sleep for yet. Sorry
 
Powerofmind said:
With the way the game's mechanics work, Fear spirits are a necessary element of a successful pantheon, even at the highest tiers of play. In a group of faith gods who would otherwise run out of means of producing legend reliably, the pantheon's Fear gods ensure that legend keeps flowing, and gods unsuited to slotted positions in the pantheon are appropriately embarrassed.
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That doesn't answer my other comments on it, you realize. Like, I'm not buying "Fear Spirits are totally perfect and mechanically free and come with me to..."

Okay, I'm getting a little overheated, but I think the whole line of argument doesn't really hold up.

Not your part of it, but the thing I was replying to.
 
Reader of all said:
Okay so my new plan

[x] Plan Get Faith and get orb (or plan Veekie's + Laurent's plan)
[X] Bless Petitioner for Sacrifices - Expend some of your DE to empower those who come to your shrine or pray to you in exchange for more offerings. Current Skills that can be blessed: Astrology, Navigation.
-[X] Expend <8> DE on petitioners
[X] Guide the Ships - Guide and navigate the boats in person, sending them where they need to be. Costs: 6 DE
[X] Roil Waters** - You bend the waters to your command against your enemies, sending larger waves at the settlement near you, or creating deadly sprays and whirlpools that will capsize any boat they dare put upon the surface of your waters. Costs: 5 DE
[X] Build a Shrine - Bully, threaten, persuade, or cajole mortals into building a shrine to your magnificence. Can fail until Faith or Fear is at least 1. Maximum shrines 0/2.
[X] Declare yourself Gaerig, spirit of the sea, and demand offerings! Costs: 5 DE
[X] Purchase Faith 1 for free
[X] Purchase Elemental Avatar - 4 Legend, 4-3 years
[X] Upgrade Avatar 1->2 - 2-2 Legend, 0 years

Okay @The Laurent , @veekie , @Darkcrest , @Van Ropen , @Abby Normal , @Seventeen , @nixter , @Void Stalker , @lioli

My apologies for mass tagging can you please vote for my plan it has us sleeping for the stuff Veekie wants as well as gaining DE for next turn and establishing our worshipper base
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That is an invalid plan, due to sleeping for non-zero years while taking actions
 
Shard said:
What's the logic for Roil Waters?
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"All around me the water roiled, worse than i've seen in years, far worse than i would ever take my boat out on--but Gaerig was there, and where she took me the waters were calm and free of stone. In her path i was safer than i've yet been on the water, and with my mind free of worry, i returned with more fish than i thought possible"
 
Reader of all said:
Okay so my new plan

[x] Plan Get Faith and get orb (or plan Veekie's + Laurent's plan)
[X] Bless Petitioner for Sacrifices - Expend some of your DE to empower those who come to your shrine or pray to you in exchange for more offerings. Current Skills that can be blessed: Astrology, Navigation.
-[X] Expend <8> DE on petitioners
[X] Guide the Ships - Guide and navigate the boats in person, sending them where they need to be. Costs: 6 DE
[X] Roil Waters** - You bend the waters to your command against your enemies, sending larger waves at the settlement near you, or creating deadly sprays and whirlpools that will capsize any boat they dare put upon the surface of your waters. Costs: 5 DE
[X] Build a Shrine - Bully, threaten, persuade, or cajole mortals into building a shrine to your magnificence. Can fail until Faith or Fear is at least 1. Maximum shrines 0/2.
[X] Declare yourself Gaerig, spirit of the sea, and demand offerings! Costs: 5 DE
[X] Purchase Faith 1 for free
[X] Purchase Elemental Avatar - 4 Legend, 4-3 years
[X] Upgrade Avatar 1->2 - 2-2 Legend, 0 years

Okay @The Laurent , @veekie , @Darkcrest , @Van Ropen , @Abby Normal , @Seventeen , @nixter , @Void Stalker , @lioli

My apologies for mass tagging can you please vote for my plan it has us sleeping for the stuff Veekie wants as well as gaining DE for next turn and establishing our worshipper base
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You can't do that. Either vote for actions, or to sleep.
 
The Laurent said:
That doesn't answer my other comments on it, you realize. Like, I'm not buying "Fear Spirits are totally perfect and mechanically free and come with me to..."

Okay, I'm getting a little overheated, but I think the whole line of argument doesn't really hold up.

Not your part of it, but the thing I was replying to.
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I'm just saying (like I have been the entire time) not to knock the other side. I ensured that the 'fun' of fear is balanced out with being not-stupid about it, and the 'micromanagement' of faith does have interesting elements and at least rewards spontaneous play a little.
 
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