I think I might have been misunderstanding something, actually. As far as I was aware, there were three variables here.
- Number of shrines you can have.
- Number of shrine extensions you can have.
- Maximum shrine level.
Time of the Gods: Into the Amber Age
- Thread starter Powerofmind
- Start date
- Original
[X] Plan Weddings Mean Shared Assets right?
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
Aaaaaand there's Veekies attendant fetish popping up again.
Seems a little ambitious, and since we're getting married I'd like to get his shrine in our town now, so... I'm going to bastardize a plan now...
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That... Seems like too many people; I like the general idea, but 2 people from every family seems too high a proportion (also, likely to lead to even bigger families than primitive civilization already does; that might be OK, but as we learned with harzivan, every change has side effects..)
That's kind of the point. We put a maximum number of people who can be spared, so that we have an excuse to drop some light tormenting in the future for DE. See how long they can keep it up. Two good looking youths per family, but if they are clever about it they can do some creative marrying to mess up the numbers.
And then Saiga comes to us again in our Holy Place, for the finale negotiations.
Alright, noted. Lemme tweak the numbers a bit.
Honestly before marrying I'd like to give him some challenges to see if he's worthy of us.
That kind of thing is traditional after all.
Maybe say something like that his trinket is amusing and we're willing to leave his people alone for some time but if he wants our hand he better show us his worth!
That kind of thing is traditional after all.
Maybe say something like that his trinket is amusing and we're willing to leave his people alone for some time but if he wants our hand he better show us his worth!
Modified:
-Reduced it from Two per family to One.
-They no longer need to be of immediate family, and can be taken from an extended family.
Does that work better?
It would, of course, be putting their good looking young adults together under us and that's going to have interesting effects too.
Fertlity Spirit down the road? It's difficult to get people afraid of that directly, but this might work out once we start making demispirits with the lads.
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Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
You did me a funny, good sir.Omake : Extract from "Original - Time of the Gods : Shivering on the Ice"
Page 273 of the thread
MGTOW : People, don't marry the crazy.
Alphakisser : Come on, she is perfect for us. We are a Faith Innovation/Hunter awoken hero and she is probably a Fear Sea/Moon elemental spirit. Imagine all the demi-spirits/monster hybrids we could spawn into existence! We could end up with the Orphan of Kos's expy!
MGTOW : What r u doing?
Abyss Wanderer : I like the marriage thing, but what can we do to prevent Gaerig from simply continue killing our worshippers? I'm not sure divorce exist so soon in history.
MGTOW : People, don't marry the crazy.
Bits : If divine marriage is a thing, I suppose divine divorce too, @_Spiritovermatter? There is even a rhyme.
MGTOW : Stahp.
GM Spiritovermatter : Yes, should things not work out the way you intend to, then you will be able to split this union. It will mainly be political, break this marriage as you would an alliance.
Heidi Veryday : @_MGTOW You should stop spamming. And the idea is not that stupid, it would be a pain to take down that spirit, so better marry her and have her become our ally.
MGTOW : If the girl is such a pain in the ass that don't have any idea to make her stop, you should not try to marry her!! She is not a keeper, she will just try to suck all our DE away while ruining our Faith rating by drowning our people because she is a Fear spirit and it is what she does, that capricious trait or whatever she has will only add on that.
Alphakisser : Come on MGTOW, you're just fearmongering. Imagine all the profits with all the crazy moon monsters we will reap. We should have started as a Fear spirit anyway. It will be fun!
MGTOW : What's the worst is that she will divorce after she castrated our economy. She wil cry crocodile tears about "how we do nothing to help here" and how we are "patriarchist sexist asshole" when she is the one ruining everything. She will tell everyone we are prehistoric Zeus and cheated on her with that Crone she knows nothing about and our worshippers will be too scared of her sea of bullshit to tell anything against her.
Bits : That could happen?
GM Spiritovermatter : ......
That is correct, I just wasn't also noting the unlocked extension mechanic because that one wasn't particularly on the table for change. As is, before accounting for the single shift;
- is handled by Influence and dictates how many unique extensions you can put up
- is handled by Shrine and dictates what level and which specific extensions you can put up (some are like Civ series buildings and can go on more than one shrine, others are like wonders and can only go up in one spot, but the prevailing idea is that you pick one out of a set of possible choices every even attribute point)
- is handled by Shrine and dictates how powerful each constructed extension is
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
[X] Plan No Husbando (yet)
I am not too sold on demanding a Shrine in his village. That is a rather expensive request, and not one I'm sure a few blessings can outweigh. If we also took his hand in marriage, sure, but as this vote this I am slightly worried he will react negatively.
Of course, most of the negative effects of that are still worth not marrying to me, so my vote is still secure here.
I am not too sold on demanding a Shrine in his village. That is a rather expensive request, and not one I'm sure a few blessings can outweigh. If we also took his hand in marriage, sure, but as this vote this I am slightly worried he will react negatively.
Of course, most of the negative effects of that are still worth not marrying to me, so my vote is still secure here.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
[] Plan Not-getting-that-many-votes
-[] Acquiesce to Saiga's first condition (not voting for this is implicit refusal of the condition, can be difficult and will likely upset Saiga).
-[] Acquiesce to Saiga's second condition (binds Gaerig and Saiga together in marriage, much easier to refuse).
-[] Demand more in exchange for granted requests.
--[] That he builds you a shrine in his village, equal in grandeur to his own.
--[] Offer to allow him to construct a shrine in your own village, so that no matter what, you will always be near each other
Dropped the attendant thing, might add it back if people other than veekie like it (I'm not excluding you veekie! I just already know your opinion.) If I do add it back though, it would be a pair of attendants per village threatened by us. Much more reasonable number, four is a pretty good retinue at this size, I think! Plus, it may help balance scales, depending on how he values the shrines.
Oh, and I'm not demanding that he builds our shrine before our marriage, although I still am demanding that it be equal to our own.
Also, question for @Powerofmind you said Long Night before. Are we passed the Arctic/Antarctic circle (or close too it)? Because a) that means that the moon is a pretty important seasonal object, and b) it probably has a minor connection with the cold season with the local culture. Just saying
-[] Acquiesce to Saiga's first condition (not voting for this is implicit refusal of the condition, can be difficult and will likely upset Saiga).
-[] Acquiesce to Saiga's second condition (binds Gaerig and Saiga together in marriage, much easier to refuse).
-[] Demand more in exchange for granted requests.
--[] That he builds you a shrine in his village, equal in grandeur to his own.
--[] Offer to allow him to construct a shrine in your own village, so that no matter what, you will always be near each other
Dropped the attendant thing, might add it back if people other than veekie like it (I'm not excluding you veekie! I just already know your opinion.) If I do add it back though, it would be a pair of attendants per village threatened by us. Much more reasonable number, four is a pretty good retinue at this size, I think! Plus, it may help balance scales, depending on how he values the shrines.
Oh, and I'm not demanding that he builds our shrine before our marriage, although I still am demanding that it be equal to our own.
Also, question for @Powerofmind you said Long Night before. Are we passed the Arctic/Antarctic circle (or close too it)? Because a) that means that the moon is a pretty important seasonal object, and b) it probably has a minor connection with the cold season with the local culture. Just saying
I think these are too much, especially the first one.
Remember when the River Mother asked us to start doing seed blessings on her behalf? And it blew Harzivan's mind, since that would wreck his economy? Same thing here, as far as the "equal sacrifice" bit goes. Especially if yo umeant it mechanically, it would make any sort of sacrifice action totally unprofitable for him.
The second one is better, but I think it is needlessly dangerous. If he has a normal unagumented shrine, we are just asking for a shrine. If he has a higher level shrine or whatnot (basically, if his shrine is grand at all) then it almost certainly represents a huge commitment, and isn't something he is going to be willing to replicate just like that.
As a parallel, if we were told to copy our efforts on LABOR OF THE MOON-SPHERE on Saiga's behalf, we sure as hell wouldn't be happy.
I'm leaning 3 I think.
Reasoning:
1) Influence does cover this pretty well. It's how widespread you are and thus how much cultural diversity within your domain.
2) This is the natural thing for Shrine rating. It basically measures how fancy your best shrines are after all, so it determines how elaborate your decorations and thus shrine extensions get based on your 'tech level'.
3) This one seems the natural point for Faith/Fear, since where Shrine is Facilities, Faith and Fear are basically how much full time staff, customs and rituals you have dedicated to their use.
So taking a healer spirit of obsidian:
-High Shrine and low Faith means he has this fancy ass surgery in his main shrine, which can be used to healing rituals and the like. Obsidian blades, purifying braziers, the works. But only a few priests trained to use the stuff.
-High Faith and low Shrine means he basically has a clinic attached to every shrine. Pretty sparse, but the priest knows some herbcraft.
-High Faith and high Shrine means a lot of civilization resources directed towards healthcare, fancy ass clinics, and a big hospital at the main shrine.
Meanwhile Influence determines just how many branches hospital god has.
Is that right?
Pandemonious Ivy
Panties, Revolution. Big Drawers. Parachute.
I don't like these plans. Here's what I'm thinking:
-Accept 1st term.
-Offer: No marriage, he hasn't earned it, but an exchange of shrines in respective villages as a show of good will.
-Addendum: "We will have a difficult time keeping our word if we don't have a target to vent our frustrations at. The sea is passionate, that way. So his enemies will be our enemies."
Something like that.
-Accept 1st term.
-Offer: No marriage, he hasn't earned it, but an exchange of shrines in respective villages as a show of good will.
-Addendum: "We will have a difficult time keeping our word if we don't have a target to vent our frustrations at. The sea is passionate, that way. So his enemies will be our enemies."
Something like that.
Long ditched on the first dude. Will dial down the second, since you make sense.
- Location
- USA
[X] Plan No Husbando (yet)
So this would say prove yourself and allow us to delay but neither confirm nor deny his marriage request correct? I do feel marriage is useful, just because we close off his village to attack he can lead us to other villages not under his protection. Basically we can fear feed off our enemies and his enemies. and this way hopefully get multiple targets so we can rotate so fear does not get stale from constant attacks
So this would say prove yourself and allow us to delay but neither confirm nor deny his marriage request correct? I do feel marriage is useful, just because we close off his village to attack he can lead us to other villages not under his protection. Basically we can fear feed off our enemies and his enemies. and this way hopefully get multiple targets so we can rotate so fear does not get stale from constant attacks
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Can I interest you in my plan?
2 might make more sense-- how intricate the people's way of worshiping/fearing us is would establish what we can do with our shrines, while the potency and solidity of our shrines themselves would determine how powerful the extensions are.
To be clear, would that shift be instead of, or in addition to giving fear/faith the ambrosia limit?
I think that makes sense to do, and mechanically it doesn't matter which you shift; move the one that you can justify more easily in the narrative.
That is definitely an improvement as far as I can tell, though I wish there was a way to modify the phrasing to be more precise; you used "of their blood" but it is really ambiguous what that means.
That said, if I have to be honest, I'm a bit worried that it is going to be a logistical nightmare to keep track of who is related to whom,
Not for my plan but note that if we don't marry him I would suggest he set up a shrine in our village instead to bless our people, since that means that our next conflict will happen in our Holy Place once again, where he comes to us.
If we have a shrine in his village he wouldn't need to make the journey to our Holy Place, which means he would have the advantage on negotiations, even though we get more benefits from having a shrine in his village and expanding our population modifier.
In my case, since I agree to marry, the conflict of interest is much lighter, and his people would be serving us(and they can hardly serve us if they can't reach us without a long trip!), giving us a different angle to yank his chains
I just want there to be an established group of people spending time with us when we hit Avatar 3 and start on them Demispirits. And then Fertility Spirit once their youths start knocking up each other at our place.
If we have a shrine in his village he wouldn't need to make the journey to our Holy Place, which means he would have the advantage on negotiations, even though we get more benefits from having a shrine in his village and expanding our population modifier.
In my case, since I agree to marry, the conflict of interest is much lighter, and his people would be serving us(and they can hardly serve us if they can't reach us without a long trip!), giving us a different angle to yank his chains
It certainly was easy to sell to the audience!Aaaaaand there's Veekies attendant fetish popping up again.
I just want there to be an established group of people spending time with us when we hit Avatar 3 and start on them Demispirits. And then Fertility Spirit once their youths start knocking up each other at our place.
Primarily it's intended to be left ambiguous, since we can then punish the same people if the ones serving us screw up(like we have been doing last turn, those serving us poorly get their family members murdered). Vague cuts both ways.
EDIT: Sleep for realsies now. Will continue to adapt the plan, as long as requests are within the general theme.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Hmm, something to offer that doesn't have us give any ground yet still small enough that it can be accepted... I got it!
[ ] Acquiesce to Saiga's second condition (binds Gaerig and Saiga together in marriage, much easier to refuse).
-[ ] On the condition that he becomes the wife.
He probably looks prettier in a skirt anyways.
[ ] Acquiesce to Saiga's second condition (binds Gaerig and Saiga together in marriage, much easier to refuse).
-[ ] On the condition that he becomes the wife.
He probably looks prettier in a skirt anyways.
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Saiga is older than us and almost certainly has greater knowledge of the wider region, including both spirits and mortals. Instead of focusing exclusively on him and his in our demands, why not let him buy us off and demand that he give us new targets? If he can tell us where three or four other coastal villages are then it becomes far less relevant that we're not attacking his- particularly when his village gives us a steady stream of tribute in order to appease us and keep us away, so we're still gaining benefits. There's a big, beautiful world out there filled with people to torment.