Time of the Gods: Into the Amber Age

. There might come a time where we will encounter a spirit that will dominate us, and shouöd this happen he will probably try to advantage of this as much as he can,
As in 'oh that is a really pretty sphere that you have here, sadly it's not yours anymore'

Yeah... If we do make it a part of our Holy Place, they'd need to do a whole lot more than win a single social encounter to get it, if they even can without destroying us.

Stealing it might be possible, I suppose. If we weren't a water-based Spirit with Trickery and a free cast in our watery Holy Place someone might even have a decent chance.
 
If we do make it a part of our Holy Place, they'd need to do a whole lot more than win a single social encounter to get it,

Dude, we nearly lost our social encounter to Saiga of all people (who hasn't even been around that long) despite having the home advantage, assuming we will auto-win any encounter with either an older local spirit or even worse a higher tier spirit speaks of woefull ignorance,

Also that assumes that this is the only way they could force hands, which is wrong
 
Dude, we nearly lost our social encounter to Saiga of all people (who hasn't even been around that long) despite having the home advantage, assuming we will auto-win any encounter with either an older local spirit or even worse a higher tier spirit speaks of woefull ignorance,

Also that assumes that this is the only way they could force hands, which is wrong

And your point is? I'm saying that it will take multiple social encounters to get it; I'm saying that direct combat won't work, because we get a free cast in our Holy Place even if we're dispersed; stealing it won't work because we, too, have Perform (Trickery); I'm saying that there won't be many spirits who both want to steal it and can because they aren't moon/stars/astronomy oriented, and we'd be enemies almost certainly anyway.

Plus, WoG has Saiga at a century old. That is not 'young' or 'of all people'. He lacked a Perform and he lacks Awe (Awe-offs are automatic regardless of whether or not the skill has been learned). He's a capable spirit who's mellowed out (perhaps by force, admittedly) and doesn't have much to do.
 
[X] Have it forever ornament your shoal!
Like I said, there are two places this thing deserves to be. Since we lack the neccesary Craft to makea Silver Yo-Yo out of it, we must use it as a giant lawn ornament. I would've voted it even if I didn't find the moonbeams so delicious.

It will make it a lot harder for us to go nomad mode later on, though, in case you are one of the people who care about that.
 
Dude, we nearly lost our social encounter to Saiga of all people
Wut? Insufficient Data. Checking...

Show Dominance - First Round
Awe + Perform rolled 13 vs 12
Draw

Lovestruck - Second Round
Trickery rolled 6 vs 11
Major Success

Show Dominance - Third Round
Awe + Perform rolled 7 vs 13
Major Success
These are the unmodified and displayed rolls from that encounter (Saiga on the left, Gaerig on the right). On these, we only see that when we rolled close, we drew, and when we rolled higher, we got a major success. This is inconclusive data, trending towards optimism about our ability to beat him again.

Admittedly, this doesn't really apply to other spirits at all, but the line I'm responding to seems largely baseless. Provide counter-quote for further analysis.
 
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[X] Have it forever ornament your shoal!
Like I said, there are two places this thing deserves to be. Since we lack the neccesary Craft to makea Silver Yo-Yo out of it, we must use it as a giant lawn ornament. I would've voted it even if I didn't find the moonbeams so delicious.

It will make it a lot harder for us to go nomad mode later on, though, in case you are one of the people who care about that.

Well, for now, we'll need a solid base for 'worship' as well as somewhere to gestate and safely raise our impending babies, until we get the formula down right and know how far we can push it and how soon we can let them loose.

tl;dr: Going nomad anytime soon wouldn't be a good idea anyway, because of a slew of reasons that make us staying put the smart decision. Monster creation being prominent among those reasons.
 
*dry voice*


1. it is not an 'infinity+1 sword', if this were an rpg then it would have been the first our first magical item, while this makes it by far better then the 'common trash' we would have worn up til now, it doesn't change the fact it will become 'useless' later on when we can get better things


2. if you would have properly read the post you would have known that I was talking about future, you know where we might actually get to do something with a crap ton silver or find a crafting spirit that can actually make something better

3. There might come a time where we will encounter a spirit that will dominate us, and shouöd this happen he will probably try to advantage of this as much as he can,
As in 'oh that is a really pretty sphere that you have here, sadly it's not yours anymore'
Should something like this happen or another scenario where we need something for either trade or appeasement I want to know if the silver will be an option or whether breaking whatever enchantment is still left later on will destroy the silver in the process

*dumps water on Sides' head*
That better?

No the comparison wasn't perfect get over yourself. Still a valuable artifact worth more than its base material. Breaking it down for its base materials to sell is equally ludicrous. Much more valuable as is. It is extremely difficult for one spirit to sneak into another's shrine. Social is already being worked.
 
And your point is? I'm saying that it will take multiple social encounters to get it; I'm saying that direct combat won't work, because we get a free cast in our Holy Place even if we're dispersed; stealing it won't work because we, too, have Perform (Trickery);

My point is that we can't do shit if the enemy is skilled enough and at this point in this setting there will almost everybody be better then us at something, higher social skill -> we lose, higher combat skill/simple one that counters our own -> we lose, higher influence/greater man power -> we lose, has elemental skills to shut us down -> we lose, there are many ways to bea us, not certainly to kill us, but beat us? yes there are many and most of them aren't even that hard to get

I'm saying that there won't be many spirits who both want to steal it and can because they aren't moon/stars/astronomy oriented, and we'd be enemies almost certainly anyway.

Look, they don't need to be moon/stars/astronomy oriented in order to want the moon sphere, they could just as easily want to humiliate us to put down our legened and teach the new kid around the block a lesson, or they could simple want the silver, which is by PoM own admission, for this setting a 'fuckton' and rather valuable

Plus, WoG has Saiga at a century old. That is not 'young' or 'of all people'.

In a setting that, had at least a thousand year to produce gods since the last cataclysm, being a hundred years around is nothing, especially for a faith spirit who would have the need to sleep most of the time in order to upgrade himself, any more skilled spirit or higher tier spirit will also be older then saiga, which already know are a thing

He lacked a Perform and he lacks Awe (Awe-offs are automatic regardless of whether or not the skill has been learned).

That only showed how awful our roll was, that we nearly got socially dominated by somebody with no social skills

It also shows that we need to consider what we will do and are willing to do should the time come when we will lose

I for one would be open to negotiate with them should they prove so much superior that we have no chance of beating them any time soon, and for that the silver inside the moon sphere would be a great asset

These are the unmodified and displayed rolls from that encounter (Saiga on the left, Gaerag on the right). On these, we only see that when we rolled close, we drew, and when we rolled higher, we got a major success

WHich was only due being in our home and thus gaining the advantage, had we meet somewhere else or would have been in his home the roll would have been a loss

This is inconclusive data, trending towards optimism about our ability to beat him again.

As long long as we have the home advantage yes, then we have the possibility of beating him (who has no social skills) and that says nothing about other spirits who might actually have social skills and who have actually reasons to seek us out *points at the crone*
 
WHich was only due being in our home and thus gaining the advantage, had we meet somewhere else or would have been in his home the roll would have been a loss
A greater success is the largest margin of win that we can get. Without the modifiers, we have no idea if we narrowly beat him out, or rofl-stomped him to the nth degree. Insufficient data, please provide a quote that provides more information on how close we were to getting less than maximum success. Until then, this:

That only showed how awful our roll was, that we nearly got socially dominated by somebody with no social skills
Is an alarmist argument. At worst, it was an even contest, and that was when we were caught unawares and hadn't smacked him with our trickery buff/debuff. On even footing, if we were to get the drop on him, we'd probably win, and depending on the strength of the debuff, even his shrine might not be enough to stop us from walking all over his heart (big 'if' on the debuff though).
 
It is extremely difficult for one spirit to sneak into another's shrine.
Near impossible actually. You can FEEL any spirit approach your shrines from a fair distance away.

The workaround is demispirits who can have spirit level skill, a master shapeshifter(who would have to do it as a mortal) or a master trickster.
My point is that we can't do shit if the enemy is skilled enough and at this point in this setting there will almost everybody be better then us at something, higher social skill -> we lose, higher combat skill/simple one that counters our own -> we lose, higher influence/greater man power -> we lose, has elemental skills to shut us down -> we lose, there are many ways to bea us, not certainly to kill us, but beat us? yes there are many and most of them aren't even that hard to get

Look, they don't need to be moon/stars/astronomy oriented in order to want the moon sphere, they could just as easily want to humiliate us to put down our legened and teach the new kid around the block a lesson, or they could simple want the silver, which is by PoM own admission, for this setting a 'fuckton' and rather valuable

Explicitly untrue. Anyone going after our Holy Place has enough power to outright destroy us at this point. We have enough advantage there that by literal word of GM, we have a good chance of maiming anyone trying to alter the Holy Place even if they win.

This goes beyond "It's shiny, I loot it" as a motivation.
The Holy Place is a massive rock formation out in the ocean. It is surrounded by water and reefs, while the central part is itself underwater. If they can rob it without consequence they can kill us with little more effort. We are not looking at any influence field contacting it(you can feel those)

Look at Saiga, we didn't dominate him, not entirely, even with all the advantages rigged. We got basically 2 commands, both used to ensure that he leaves without issue and to ensure that our next conflict will be advantaged. When he comes back we'd have a rematch and he might be able to impose one or two conditions of his own(presumably one would be, "Stop killing my dudes man") if we lose. And then we have another rematch until one of us makes enough progress to chain the other down. With success not amounting to escaping the consequences of previous failures.
We're not looking at "Flying lionman zooms in and explodes your entire village, then loots your stuff" modes of play anymore. It'd be much more incremental conflicts establishing dominance, while the skill cap specifically makes sure that ANYONE has to have a weakness.
 
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Honestly the biggest upside to not going for moonbeam is being able to cover our shrines with shiny metal. We need to work on the next rank of shrine asap or our growth is going to be slowed down. We should definitely start demanding the mortals spruce up our shrine near them, and probably make a second shrine somewhere for them to cover in stuff.
 
We're not looking at "Flying lionman zooms in and explodes your entire village, then loots your stuff" modes of play anymore. It'd be much more incremental conflicts establishing dominance, while the skill cap specifically makes sure that ANYONE has to have a weakness.
Unless a nomadic flying lionman god zooms in, kills us, and loots our stuff.

What? It could happen.
 
I'm thinking we'd probably make do with shells, scrimshaw and pearls for now.
Fastest route to having quality shrine ornaments is making a bunch of demispirits, one of who might pick up crafting skills and then powerlevel those. A requirement for that is a source of craftable materials to give the child to play with, for which we're going to need exploration actions to find.

...well okay, actual fastest route is for Saiga to bring us presents that HE spends all the effort getting the materials and crafting done for, but that's unreliable for obvious reasons.
 
...People really broke the old system hard, didn't they?
Biggest factor IMO was that success was too total. You don't see mythic back and forth, once a clash was engaged it was always a onesided annihilation, one way or another. And also the whole thing about figuring out how to abuse Awe, press the button until it broke, then kept pressing, the Awe engine's Legend fountain was the foundation and enabler for all the insanity.

Though SV psychology didn't help, when we took the slightest setback as a blood feud, thankfully more relaxed here.
 
Though SV psychology didn't help, when we took the slightest setback as a blood feud, thankfully more relaxed here.

To be fair: We had a fantastic trend of winning all of those, so...

Eagle Spirit who stole our wimmens.
River Mother who stole our agency.
Fire Thief who further stole our agency.
Forest Spirit who stole our people and used them to fuel her murder rituals.
Goat God who.... didn't steal anything, honestly, but he tried picking a fight with us. Like, we'd just discovered the tip of the ice berg and he gave us the perfect reason to figure out how to go full on Super Saiyan.

tl;dr: While we might've been a little too overzealous, our targets actually did have it coming. Our issue was more "Overwhelming firepower? Why the hell not" in all cases. It was hilarious.
 
...People really broke the old system hard, didn't they?
The old system was not built to last. Basically advancement in a great number of domains was exponential, and bonuses from multiple domains stacked. Maxing farming with a moderate Influence and a couple of Plant traits got us the ability to churn DE extremely rapidly. Growth blessings let us directly build our Faith score (and therefore our DE pool) by investing DE. Getting sun traits let us do any of what we might have wanted to do before (e.g. DE churning, growth, inspirations) much more efficiently. Getting Mysticism high let efficiently turn surplus DE into Traits. Having early demispirit children let us farm literally hundreds of legend. High levels in our elemental murder trait let us us DE to kill people and turn Legend into more traits. You get the idea.

EDIT: Though to be entirely fair to AN, he was working from scratch with an untested homebrew engine, so it having flaws should not be taken as criticizing him. Powerofmind's current run benefits immensely from being able to see what worked and what didn't and being able to redesign things accordingly.






On that note. @Powerofmind - are you changing the way demispirits/monsters work in this quest? Because frankly, the way they worked in AN's quest was very imbalanced. It was a totally unopposed way of Legend farming, and perhaps as importantly, the system wasn't sustainable once you got to >10 demispirits (and even less than that, actually). Cause honestly, keeping track of that many NPCs is tricky.

Do you have any solutions in mind?
 
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They were mentioned to be changed, though IIRC the specifics remain unknown until we actually make some.

We do know that most of their skills not linked to their core focus fall off or lock to match their new spirit avatar rating though.
 
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