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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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[ ] The Emerald Seas must wield both the sheathed sword and the open scroll. Great Tsu united by word, and wielded his staff in anger only against the rapacious. The Emerald Seas have all they need; we need not take from others. What we might want, we may exchange for a pittance of our bounty. (+approval from imperial moderate, Emerald Seas Nationalist and Cai Loyalist aligned groups)

The 'need not take from others' feels like the most important thing here, to dissuade future 'manifest destiny' conquest ideas.
 
[ ] The Emerald Seas must build itself. In showing a united face and a clear vision, we may build the long sullied foundations of our province into a manor as respected as any other. In this new field we may show that the skill and charisma of great Tsu is not buried. (+approval from Weilu moderate and reformist aligned groups)

I like the idea of building "we're good at talking with foreigners" into the emerald seas identity. It being on the basis of "Tsu was good at talking with what-was-then foreigners, it's only natural that we inherited that" making it a "traditional" argument only makes it more fun.
 
[X] The Emerald Seas must build itself. In showing a united face and a clear vision, we may build the long sullied foundations of our province into a manor as respected as any other. In this new field we may show that the skill and charisma of great Tsu is not buried. (+approval from Weilu moderate and reformist aligned groups)

I tend towards this choice, because we should deepen the connection we have.
 
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[X] The Emerald Seas must build itself. In showing a united face and a clear vision, we may build the long sullied foundations of our province into a manor as respected as any other. In this new field we may show that the skill and charisma of great Tsu is not buried. (+approval from Weilu moderate and reformist aligned groups)

This is how we should be viewed, as a prople willing to be open and become a part of the international community.

That we have the ability to intergrate and can make other cultures meld with our own and coexist in different manners without the need to rule with an iron fist or laws that stamp out ways of cultivation and their methods of doing things as long as it's not directly harmful to others or society.
 
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yrsillar said:
She paused, looking up at the speaker. "The mountains of the wall are stable enough in the short term, no good comes I think from pressing our influence too deeply and too quickly."

"And the influence of our neighbors' own high cultivation, and the erecting of temples to foreign gods?"
[...]
"I am certain it can, the Celestial bureaucracy is a well-oiled clock, but the Baroness does not believe that these foreign gods will become a part of it," the Lin woman said.
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I can't help but notice that they're completely ignoring the issue of the Cloud's own gods, and what they will have to say about things.

"Here comes Batu with the steel chair!"
 
These both choices don't sound all that mutually exclusive to me.
The first one refers to the method of making deals with foreign powers and the second alludes to the cultural foundation needed for that.

I still gravitate towards the second. I don't like the kinda arrogant and condescending tone of the first option.
In particular the "What we might want, we may exchange for a pittance of our bounty", as if the ES would be making the rest of the world a favour for even contemplating trading with them.
Not really the actitude I'd want to cultivate in the ES.

[ ] The Emerald Seas must build itself. In showing a united face and a clear vision, we may build the long sullied foundations of our province into a manor as respected as any other. In this new field we may show that the skill and charisma of great Tsu is not buried. (+approval from Weilu moderate and reformist aligned groups)

Also, I learned a new word today!

yrsillar said:
adroitly
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[X] The Emerald Seas must build itself. In showing a united face and a clear vision, we may build the long sullied foundations of our province into a manor as respected as any other. In this new field we may show that the skill and charisma of great Tsu is not buried. (+approval from Weilu moderate and reformist aligned groups)
 
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[X] The Emerald Seas must wield both the sheathed sword and the open scroll. Great Tsu united by word, and wielded his staff in anger only against the rapacious. The Emerald Seas have all they need; we need not take from others. What we might want, we may exchange for a pittance of our bounty. (+approval from imperial moderate, Emerald Seas Nationalist and Cai Loyalist aligned groups)
 
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I think we would do well to remember our audience. This is the full court, Cai loyalists and imperial moderates make up a large amount of it. I'd like to take the low-stakes win here.

[ ] The Emerald Seas must wield both the sheathed sword and the open scroll. Great Tsu united by word, and wielded his staff in anger only against the rapacious. The Emerald Seas have all they need; we need not take from others. What we might want, we may exchange for a pittance of our bounty. (+approval from imperial moderate, Emerald Seas Nationalist and Cai Loyalist aligned groups)

But more importantly I like the way this reinforces the anti-conquest message we've been pushing. We do not need to take from others. What we want, we can easily trade for.

It's very Wang (builder) in it's outlook as well, the idea that we should use what we have before grabbing for more. So I think it gets the north more on board with the south in that sense too

The part I'm unsure about is why the nationalists like it, besides the implication that "we" are a cohesive, self-contained unit. Am I missing something?
 
Just as a reference...



-Luo Clan: 2
--Imperial Conservatives (20%): -3
--Imperial Moderates (20%): 1
--Weilu Moderates (50%): 3
--Old Tribes (5%): 4
–Emerald Seas Nationalists (5%): 4

-Wang Clan: 2
--Imperial Moderates(35%): 1
--Imperial Conservatives (10%): -3
--Weilu Moderates (40%): 3
–Emerald Seas Nationalists (15%): 4

-Meng Clan: 1
--Weilu Conservatives(45%): 0
--Weilu Isolationists(15%): -6
--Weilu Reformers(35%): 4
–Emerald Seas Nationalists (5%): 4

-Diao Clan -1
--Imperial Conservative(50%): -3
--Imperial Moderate(35%): 1
--Weilu Moderate(5%): 3
–Emerald Seas Nationalists (10%): 4

-Jia Clan: 1
--Imperial Moderate(20%): 1
--Imperial Conservative(30%): -3
--Cai Loyalist-(30%): 2
–Emerald Seas Nationalists (20%): 4

-Bao clan: 2
--Imperial Moderate(60%): 1
--Imperial Conservative(20%): -3
--Emerald Seas Nationalists (20%): 4

So right now, Imperial Moderates are very, very mildly in favor of us, Emerald Seas Nationalists love the shit out of us, and Cai Loyalists are modestly in favor of us, while Weliu Moderates are rather in favor of us, and Reformers are presumably Weilu Reformers. So the real 'steal' from the first option is the chance to get the Imperial Moderates up to 2, whereas the big draw of the second one is to solidify our hold over some of our weak but not barely-there allies.
 
Glau said:
The part I'm unsure about is why the nationalists like it, besides the implication that "we" are a cohesive, self-contained unit. Am I missing something?
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Well, just look at the two options. Option 1 is Emerald Seas hypebeasting about our magnificent legacy and the bounty of our lands, while Option 2 is a sober reflection on the ES's past failures and how to overcome them. The first one is clearly going to resonate better with any nationalists in the audience, and while I might normally be concerned about that sort of thing, Option 1 specifically focuses on how we don't need to go conquering in the name of the glorious motherland, so I figure it's fine.

Also, one other thing to note about the Emerald Seas Nationalists is that they're not exactly a stable faction yet. Like, they only exist at all in the Meng as a knee-jerk reaction against the attempted suicide-by-Shenhua incident, and they could easily fade back into the more established parties over time. If we do want to keep them around as a faction, feeding them crumbs like this might be a good move, even if we aren't super interested in boosting our Nationalist approval numbers up.

Option 2's Weilu appeal has value too, ofc, I just wanted to dive into the whole Nationalist thing since I feel like it's a bit less intuitive than the Weilu side of the equation.
 
The Laurent said:
Just as a reference...
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Thank you, this is very useful.

Assuming the clans are about the same size and court clans are small enough/similar enough, the full court breakdown should look something like this:

Imperial conservatives: 25%
Imperial moderates: 28.3%

Cai loyalists: 5%

Emerald Seas' Nationalists: 12.5%

Old tribes: <1%

Weilu reformers: 5.8%
Weilu moderates: 15.8%
Weilu conservatives: 7.5%
Weilu isolationists: 2.5%

(Sums to 103.5%, so v roughly)

Im not sure how blocks would form overall, but if we slice by reformer/moderate/conservative, and put old tribes with the conservatives but ES nationalists and cai loyalists with the reformers, we get this:

Conservatives: ~35%
Moderates: ~45%
Reformers: ~20%

And if we slice by imperial/weilu/novel, we get this:

Imperial: ~50%
Weilu: ~30%
Novel: ~20%
 
Conservatives aren't mentioned in either vote options here. Are they going to hate us no matter what or something?
 
Y'know, sure.

[X] The Emerald Seas must wield both the sheathed sword and the open scroll. Great Tsu united by word, and wielded his staff in anger only against the rapacious. The Emerald Seas have all they need; we need not take from others. What we might want, we may exchange for a pittance of our bounty. (+approval from imperial moderate, Emerald Seas Nationalist and Cai Loyalist aligned groups)

The impmod approval is nice, and I do like throwing the nationalists a crumb. Having people invested in the Emerald Seas as its own entity works out for us, so I at least want to encourage them to the point where they're a stable faction.
 
Looking at those relation charts I feel like we can spin options for either choice.
Option 1 lets us widen the internal dissent in the Dao, to the point that half the faction likes us, and creates opposition on the largest conservative base in the ducal families.
Option 2 gives us more support inside the Meng, and against the only group with a -6 reputation.

It is interesting that Ling Qi's perspective on how she speaks, and what she speaks, is so often calculated through the lens of these relationships. If Ling Qi was asked what she thinks, *without* the knowledge that it would shift perceptions, the answer would probably be much different.

I'm going to go for Option 1. It lets us shift the balance with the Moderates away from that 0-1 range, and that's going to be useful.

[X] The Emerald Seas must wield both the sheathed sword and the open scroll. Great Tsu united by word, and wielded his staff in anger only against the rapacious. The Emerald Seas have all they need; we need not take from others. What we might want, we may exchange for a pittance of our bounty. (+approval from imperial moderate, Emerald Seas Nationalist and Cai Loyalist aligned groups)
 
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It's a bit unclear, for me, how much consequences would this vote have - does it just mean that LQ will gain more favor of these groups (liek it says explicitly)? Or would this have influence on some policies (or anythign else material), like moving CRX group (or influencing court) to act more in favor of "moderates-nationalists" in future, or remaining aligned with "weilu faction"? Because in first case answer 1 is best (shoring up credentials with everybody willing), but in second maybe "remaining with Weilu" would be better.
 
[X] The Emerald Seas must wield both the sheathed sword and the open scroll. Great Tsu united by word, and wielded his staff in anger only against the rapacious. The Emerald Seas have all they need; we need not take from others. What we might want, we may exchange for a pittance of our bounty. (+approval from imperial moderate, Emerald Seas Nationalist and Cai Loyalist aligned groups)

This statement isn't even false, considering the wood weregild thing mentioned way back when?
 
I think that we've spoken in front of court a few times now, so they know our face, but how much weight they give to our words is probably dependent on future events.


[X] The Emerald Seas must wield both the sheathed sword and the open scroll. Great Tsu united by word, and wielded his staff in anger only against the rapacious. The Emerald Seas have all they need; we need not take from others. What we might want, we may exchange for a pittance of our bounty. (+approval from imperial moderate, Emerald Seas Nationalist and Cai Loyalist aligned groups)
 
[ ] The Emerald Seas must wield both the sheathed sword and the open scroll. Great Tsu united by word, and wielded his staff in anger only against the rapacious. The Emerald Seas have all they need; we need not take from others. What we might want, we may exchange for a pittance of our bounty. (+approval from imperial moderate, Emerald Seas Nationalist and Cai Loyalist aligned groups)

edit-
[X] The Emerald Seas must build itself. In showing a united face and a clear vision, we may build the long sullied foundations of our province into a manor as respected as any other. In this new field we may show that the skill and charisma of great Tsu is not buried. (+approval from Weilu moderate and reformist aligned groups)

Changed my mind, gief more Weilu rep.
I'm good with either option winning.
 
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[X] The Emerald Seas must wield both the sheathed sword and the open scroll. Great Tsu united by word, and wielded his staff in anger only against the rapacious. The Emerald Seas have all they need; we need not take from others. What we might want, we may exchange for a pittance of our bounty. (+approval from imperial moderate, Emerald Seas Nationalist and Cai Loyalist aligned groups)
 
This is primarily a matter of politicking and how you present yourself, which is what this whole show at court is about, giving CRX and her retainers a stage to speak on.
 
[X] The Emerald Seas must build itself. In showing a united face and a clear vision, we may build the long sullied foundations of our province into a manor as respected as any other. In this new field we may show that the skill and charisma of great Tsu is not buried. (+approval from Weilu moderate and reformist aligned groups)
 
whether or not I end up voting I feel it is important to point out that unlike some of our previous statements before the court neither of the options before us will negatively impact the opinion of any faction even if neither option appeals to the conservatives it's not like we'd be saying anything that makes them hate us more

we're exclusively choosing who we get bonuses to our relationship with so it's just a matter of where we want to shore up weaknesses and whether we want any of the factions presented to really really love us, no need for running damage control after this vote which is honestly rather refreshing.
 
[X] The Emerald Seas must wield both the sheathed sword and the open scroll. Great Tsu united by word, and wielded his staff in anger only against the rapacious. The Emerald Seas have all they need; we need not take from others. What we might want, we may exchange for a pittance of our bounty. (+approval from imperial moderate, Emerald Seas Nationalist and Cai Loyalist aligned groups)
 
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