Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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I'm really not seeing how the first option is going to be taken as insulting by our guests. Sure, in isolation a lowly Baroness giving orders to a bunch of provincial heirs is a bad look, but we're not in isolation. Meizhen and Xuan Shi are both our friends who understand and the Zheng generally don't give a shit. The only one likely to raise a fuss is Sun Liling, and even that's limited. This is a Ducal project after all, and they've been invited to take part as a courtesey.

The representative of the Cai asking them to work through the Cai's representative on the Cai's delicate diplomatic project isn't an insult.

If you don't want to take the first option because you're concerned about time, that's more fair. But I would point out that any actual diplomatic kurfuffle that comes from this is probably going to take more time to smooth over than just preventing it in the first place would.
 
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In a way, it is less us putting ourselves above them, and more us turning into a social secretary and an interpreter.
We can't really order them not to do whatever they want, we can merely suggest that this is the most, diplomatic, approach, which makes them somewhat socially obligated to follow the suggestion or potentially be seen as sabotaging the Emerald Seas ducal clans project that they seem to be putting quite a lot of resources into.
 
I see the middle-ground option as a better compromise than we usually get for middle-ground options, actually. We give them a time and place, which is convenient for them because we're playing secretary and for us because it legitimizes the neutral ground building as the place for diplomacy. We don't insist on monitoring and mediating the talks, which is a show of respect to them, but we impose tolerable conditions to the meetings, which is a good way of asserting our authority and allows them to make a show of respecting said authority. (btw, the Jia Cai loyalists will like this if they hear about it).
 
Trying to micro manage seven different flavors of interaction isn't sustainable. I dont want to make us sole gatekeepers.

[X] She proposed that meetings could take place in the still being constructed meeting hall at specific times, when the primary negotiations were in recess. She would merely coordinate appointments. (Does not claim any of Ling Qi's time. No penalties or bonuses to diplomatic insults)
 
Adhoc vote count started by Karthak Urzak on Apr 13, 2023 at 4:28 PM, finished with 83 posts and 59 votes.
 
[X] She proposed that meetings could take place in the still being constructed meeting hall at specific times, when the primary negotiations were in recess. She would merely coordinate appointments. (Does not claim any of Ling Qi's time. No penalties or bonuses to diplomatic insults)
 
[X] She proposed that meetings could take place in the still being constructed meeting hall at specific times, when the primary negotiations were in recess. She would merely coordinate appointments. (Does not claim any of Ling Qi's time. No penalties or bonuses to diplomatic insults)
Vote closed 3 posts above
 
In a way, it is less us putting ourselves above them, and more us turning into a social secretary and an interpreter.
We can't really order them not to do whatever they want, we can merely suggest that this is the most, diplomatic, approach, which makes them somewhat socially obligated to follow the suggestion or potentially be seen as sabotaging the Emerald Seas ducal clans project that they seem to be putting quite a lot of resources into.
One interesting element are the precedents being forged here:
-By putting ourselves as 'interpreter' and filter, we'd establish that the host(in this case, the Cai) has the right and responsibility to mediate between interactions of Imperials and foreigners.
--To exploit this, the Sun only need to open up their own venue(which as was stated in the update, is an available route if they wished to exert themselves), and they would be free to do the same back. Whether they'd want to go to the effort isn't a given of course.
--As a secondary effect, as the host must have a middleman available, it limits interaction, the middleman can only handle so many negotiations, and as an indirect consequence greatly reduce exchange since you need three parties to be available for all dealings, and people just won't bother if the payout isn't enough. But fine control means you can get more done...at the cost of being left holding the bag for any decisions that get made.

-By funneling negotiation and debate through a predetermined venue at predetermined times, you've largely ensured that everyone will be present on their own time and on their own dime, because the alternative is that they miss out on having a voice in things.
--To exploit this, the Sun would have to attend, ensuring everyone else will attend. Then repeatedly bring up contentious discussion items to occupy the agenda. But that puts them against everyone else with an agenda, so I dare say it pretty much is mission accomplished for our part just to have everyone regularly debating without conclusions, with the odd trade or knowledge transfer happening on the side.
--This does give up a lot of fine control however, its likely that not a lot will be getting done, because the more people involved the less likely it is that they agree on anything. But the flip side is that specific responsibility is diffused, not much the MoI can get mad at us for when anything that does pass has already gone through the ducal gauntlet.

TLDR - Our current route is to get everyone to the same table and then let the low level trades and cultural exchange do the talking. I anticipate that getting big significant deals through to be a huge pain in the ass, but we can trickle through and normalize trading for basic resources and academic esoterica.
 
It's gotta be rough for Ji Rong trying to get Liling to unwind even a little bit while her grandpa just remarried and she's recovering from +spirit blood surgery and the closest thing the Jungle has to self care is the stealth bear
 
Hopefully Cathedral of Winds will count as a liminal adventure for Meizhen.

Also, do Sun Liling and Ji Rong know that LQ does dream adventures? IIRC, they know she's started dabbling in the liminal.
 
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Hopefully Cathedral of Winds will count as a liminal adventure for Meizhen.

Also, do Sun Liling and Ji Rong know that LQ does dream adventures? IIRC, they know she's started dabbling in the liminal.
Not to the extent she's doing now probably. We've gotten many comments from others how our liminal adventures are something no longer common in recent times.
 
Not to the extent she's doing now probably. We've gotten many comments from others how our liminal adventures are something no longer common in recent times.
Also worth noting that we have basically rainbow flashing flags from yrs telling us that the first step to solve a political problem (the Black Lotus pass whose ownership is contested by the Diao and the Wang), will need to be a Dream Exploration of said pass (or its past). That's not something anyone invested in solving this problem would consider doing. The Diao have drifted too far into Imperial methods to even think about it, and the majority faction is trying to actively ignore anything to do with the Suns and Moons cults. The Wang are more invested in the... materialistic and practical parts of their Weilu beliefs, and the Builder's grand design doesn't seem to include building dwellings in the Dream (smh), so they may not have the skills for dreamwalking passed down institutionally.
 
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Yeah, Ling Qi is still building up a very special skillset as we go. Not unique in any one element, becuase there's no such thing as entirely unique in such a vast world, but certainly rare.

Though we're still only modestly experienced in Dreamwalking... or at least compared to what we'll need to get to in order to do the truly serious, dangerous things, which I think takes double-digit Dreamwalker skills.

(Also still definitely want to advance Spirit Speakers soon, unrelatedly. That's another... less rare but still clearly not that common area of interest.)
 
Though we're still only modestly experienced in Dreamwalking... or at least compared to what we'll need to get to in order to do the truly serious, dangerous things, which I think takes double-digit Dreamwalker skills.

Liminal Locations:

- Bleeding Mountain
- Burrowing Behemoth
- Nightmare of the Long Knives
(Recommended Dreamwalker Skill of 10)


If i Remember correctly
"Bleeding Mountain" is the Black Lotus Pass.
"Burrowing Behemoth" was Zhengui's Mother.
I don't think we know what the Nightmare is about.

So Bleeding Mountain would be something serious but does not come with the danger tag of Dreamwalker 10.
 
Liminal Locations:

- Bleeding Mountain
- Burrowing Behemoth
- Nightmare of the Long Knives
(Recommended Dreamwalker Skill of 10)


If i Remember correctly
"Bleeding Mountain" is the Black Lotus Pass.
"Burrowing Behemoth" was Zhengui's Mother.
I don't think we know what the Nightmare is about.

So Bleeding Mountain would be something serious but does not come with the danger tag of Dreamwalker 10.

If this is the case.

...Ling Qi needs to eventually visit the Burrowing Behemoth to be awkward about how she's pretty much actually Zhenghui's mother. /s

But yeah, and I'm sure that even the Nightmare of the Long Knives is merely incredibly dangerous for her level, rather than being the peak of all danger. Always more dangerous places to Dreamwalk.

There must have once been an 8th Realm Hui or the like who delved with Hui-like arrogance into things that make the "Nightmare" look like a summer cruise.
 
If this is the case.

...Ling Qi needs to eventually visit the Burrowing Behemoth to be awkward about how she's pretty much actually Zhenghui's mother. /s

But yeah, and I'm sure that even the Nightmare of the Long Knives is merely incredibly dangerous for her level, rather than being the peak of all danger. Always more dangerous places to Dreamwalk.

There must have once been an 8th Realm Hui or the like who delved with Hui-like arrogance into things that make the "Nightmare" look like a summer cruise.
Its definitly the case
Personal Quests:

Long Hand of the Law- Complete. Having uncovered something momentous the case has been completed for now

Old Road New Road (1/???)-When the Secrets of the Bleeding Mountain have been plumbed, the quest may move forward.
 
But yeah, and I'm sure that even the Nightmare of the Long Knives is merely incredibly dangerous for her level, rather than being the peak of all danger. Always more dangerous places to Dreamwalk.

Ohhhh no questions asked, that nightmare is just extremely dangerous for 3rd realms who started out Dreamwalking. But nothing in the grand scheme of things. But I would argue that LQ has already witnessed what lurks deeper in Dream.

She has seen one of the primordial Nighmars with The forever King. And having a fireside chat with a splinter of entropy itself, is in itself probably absurdly more dangerous than some nightmare spirits having a party in "Nightmare of the Long Knives". It is just that neither the forever King, nor old Grydja were hostile to us.
I'm not counting our latest dance with Brother Darksong because it was ultimately designed as a test.
 
Ohhhh no questions asked, that nightmare is just extremely dangerous for 3rd realms who started out Dreamwalking. But nothing in the grand scheme of things. But I would argue that LQ has already witnessed what lurks deeper in Dream.

She has seen one of the primordial Nighmars with The forever King. And having a fireside chat with a splinter of entropy itself, is in itself probably absurdly more dangerous than some nightmare spirits having a party in "Nightmare of the Long Knives". It is just that neither the forever King, nor old Grydja were hostile to us.
I'm not counting our latest dance with Brother Darksong because it was ultimately designed as a test.

Yeah, my vague suspicion is that the Nightmare is actually more of an Early 4th Realm location, but one which a cautious/canny/foolhardy 3rd Realm with more skill than sense (Hi, Ling Qi) might be able to make use of.
 
Thinking that the bleeding mountain explores the death of the patriarch that Ogdei killed as the opening shot of that war.

Night of long knives sounds like the aftermath of the mason's war, and the consolidation of the Xi or Hui? A purge of the community, with all the betrayal and surprise and paranoia that would carry?

Ok, yeah, thinking about it, that would be the next step in the nightmare. When a community DOES use the bonds that create it to control and choke, what then?
 
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Thinking that the bleeding mountain explores the death of the patriarch that Ogdei killed as the opening shot of that war.

Night of long knives sounds like the aftermath of the mason's war, and the consolidation of the Xi or Hui? A purge of the community, with all the betrayal and surprise and paranoia that would carry?

Ok, yeah, thinking about it, that would be the next step in the nightmare. When a community DOES use the bonds that create it to control and choke, what then?
I was thinking it might be the purge of Huisheng's disciples, yeah. We got access to it just before getting to choose between getting access to the Gaol or a permanent Weilu party, which might have been about the winning side of that civil war, maybe ?
 
Okay, I have a question for the Math Cabal/etc? Why was Primacy of Beasts chosen insted of Spirit Seekers, where I think we'll be losing access this turn to the Argent Vent whose bonuses to Balanced Cultivation was... perfectly designed for it?

It seems like it'll make it harder to do Spirit Seekers stuff... but I'm pretty sure I'm missing something?

(I'm trying to teach myself the system for whenever Turn 19 Prelims come back around. But I still only half-understand it.)
 
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