Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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That's more casual interaction and trade.
Agreements would almost certainly still require specific hostage exchanges where the people traded are perceived to have some value to the one trading by the one they are traded to.
Noble scions, specifically, or whatever Polar Nation equivalent would be.
That's the issue, they don't seem to have nobility to speak of. Some families are rich, and get members in their Althings regularly, but you can't ask someone actually engaged in the running of a government to become hostage and anyone that looks like they could be unduly influenced by having a loved one held hostage would probably be loudly denounced as such and lose their position in the Althing. The only kind of hostage the White Sky would genuinely care about in the long term is a good number of civilians.
 
The only trade that seems to be envisioned so far is iron for timber, and I'm pretty sure Snowblossom is off the main road south by a good bit. High volume/low value trade isn't likely to pass through the city simply because there's no value added for the effort spent. Probably pretty easy to get both iron and lumber cheaply though.

So the foreigners quarter is probably going to be at the summit site, and revolve around warehouses/customs houses/stables rather than housing for people, at least initially.

The scientific colab is where I'd expect to see long-term residents who interact with eachother, so getting the telescope agreement is going to help the foreigners quarter, but overall the quarter is going to be in support of other activities else it'll just stay empty.
 
Really what our goals should be is:
1. Survey of the Wall and borders clearly delineated between Emerald Seas and White Sky
2. Creation of a permanent diplomatic location
3. A non-agression or defensive treaty/pact with the White Sky
4. Someway to back this up with more than just paper and promises

Any trade or similar discussions will need to be worked out later, including military cooperation. Best we can do military wise now is just, don't attack us we don't attack you and maybe just a little attack cloud nomads plz.

Now I think we can hit those last three all with the same thing (or at least mostly)

We make the summit location into a shared city. Eventually.

This means both sides have to pour resources into it, make it an investment with both money and manpower but also shared responsibility through governing. It'll be hard to spin and setup correctly but I think it's possible.

It'll create a city where neither side wants to break the peace because we will build it up as THE scientific and trade destination with the White Sky and the first to break the peace throws an entire city into civil war and breaks all the shiny toys we build there.

Essentially we create a valuable hostage that either one of us can execute but neither one can pull onto their side safely.
 
City needs a reason for people to be there. If it's just politics, better to have ambassadors at eachother's capitals, so I think trade and research are going to be the key agreements: a city will follow from them, but I don't think the reverse is true.
 
I don't think the Empire would go for that, but there's always the chance that Shenhua will decide that's her next radical kickflip
 
We don't need to talk about trade now though. Trade will come later.

The idea is we make the deal for knowledge exchange and for research to be done here with the telescope available. Now obviously this very expensive piece of equipment is going to need to be kept safe and since we are both going to be using it we will both need to put forces in place to do so.

Then, if things go well with the building project we have, we can claim that we now have a place we both feel comfortable meeting at and since we both have militant forces on standby to protect our research projects we might as well continue meeting here. Of course this will take a bit more militant forces on both sides to keep nasty things further away but that's fine.

Of course we then have to coordinate all of these defenses and make sure neither side gets spooked by the other so some integration of forces will need to happen. And all these researchers and guards presumably need somewhere nice to stay long term so we're going to need to bring in builders and all these people are going to need to eat and continually bringing in food just doesn't make sense so we'll need hunters and fishers and farmers.

And after however long these people learn and understand each other it only makes sense for us to begin trading in goods. And of course you can come and watch Mr.MoI, we're doing everything above board and keeping all of the real secrets in Xiangmen and we are certainly not allowing foreign ideas to be brought anywhere else. You should be thanking us, we make sure no foreigners cross the Wall now and keep them contained to this one area. We only have the Empire's best wishes in mind and doesn't the Empire want a nice friendly neighbor?
 
[X] No adding more factors is a poor decision, minor deals on the side can be made, but anything more intensive should come later.
 
That's the issue, they don't seem to have nobility to speak of. Some families are rich, and get members in their Althings regularly, but you can't ask someone actually engaged in the running of a government to become hostage and anyone that looks like they could be unduly influenced by having a loved one held hostage would probably be loudly denounced as such and lose their position in the Althing. The only kind of hostage the White Sky would genuinely care about in the long term is a good number of civilians.
I suspect you are over estimating the equality of the Polar Nations.
This whole summit is basicly done because one person decided it might be a good idea, and then managed to convince bunch of other individuals.
One of the things they are doing to assimilate Cloud nomads is intermarriage, and i doubt they just have a surpluss of young civilians falling in love with exotic foreigners, those marriages are political.
That speaks to me of, if not quite Roman levels of "Important Family" tradition, then close enough that they can adapt to hostage exchanges.
Send a young(ish) emissary from a reasonably influential family to act as an ambassador to the northern barbarians, while they send some of their younger members of influential family to learn from your ways.
Not saying it won'ät require some talking, but it's not unworkable, and, again, foreign district is not going to work as a hostage because imperials are unlikely to think of them as such, and neither would the Polar Nations i think.
 
We don't need to talk about trade now though. Trade will come later.


I see your arguement, but I think you have it backwards, because there has to be a payoff for both sides to make this continue. We've learned the emissary's position is a bit tenuous, and asking them to send their valuable astronomers way north to a facility controlled by a wary power, and expecting them to offer concessions past that just to look at and through the telescope? It might be a bit much.

What incentive do they have to establish borders, rather than just retain the nomads as a buffer state? What incentive do they have to establish ties?

The whole lot of raw materials a low-land temperate fertile area can pump out, traded for the rocks that are just lying around in the south. It's a shift upwards in living standards, in exchange for metals exotic and otherwise, that is the core reason for them to engage at all.

Or to put it another way, the reason (I believe) they are all here is they got lured in by the promise of how quick the duchess was to pay the blood price, and now they are having second thoughts given that we have sixth and greater realms just walking around being in charge.
 
I see your arguement, but I think you have it backwards, because there has to be a payoff for both sides to make this continue. We've learned the emissary's position is a bit tenuous, and asking them to send their valuable astronomers way north to a facility controlled by a wary power, and expecting them to offer concessions past that just to look at and through the telescope? It might be a bit much.

What incentive do they have to establish borders, rather than just retain the nomads as a buffer state? What incentive do they have to establish ties?

The whole lot of raw materials a low-land temperate fertile area can pump out, traded for the rocks that are just lying around in the south. It's a shift upwards in living standards, in exchange for metals exotic and otherwise, that is the core reason for them to engage at all.

Or to put it another way, the reason (I believe) they are all here is they got lured in by the promise of how quick the duchess was to pay the blood price, and now they are having second thoughts given that we have sixth and greater realms just walking around being in charge.

Yeah, ironically they'd undoubtedly--for different reasons--agree with the thread that all of those people should get out of the way and let Cai Renxiang, Gan Guangli, and Ling Qi get on with the business of running this stuff.

More or less.
 
What incentive do they have to establish borders, rather than just retain the nomads as a buffer state? What incentive do they have to establish ties?

That's the thing though, there isn't any nomads as a buffer state anymore, not really. With how far we're pushing into the wall we're claiming territory the Emerald Seas hasn't laid claim to since either the Xi or Weilu ruled. We are going to be claiming territory that the White Sky potentially claims as well. The whole reason all of this started is because Jaromilla attended a meeting of Cloud Nomads with her husband, a Cloud Nomad that is integrating his tribe with the White Sky. They don't want to be caught up in our war and to do that we need to know where the White Sky are and what people they claim.

They don't want us killing their people and taking the lands they claim and we don't want to add to the wars we're already fighting. The best way to do that is to keep diplomacy open and to have borders marked.

If the White Sky come back and say "Here's the land we claim and this is the land the Cloud People claim" what's going to happen is the Emerald Seas sees free real estate, they just have to do pest control first.

As for the hostage thing I was talking about it's not just a foreign quarter, I'm talking full on city. It's not just the people that are the hostage it's the actual infrastructure and wealth. So it not only becomes a matter of lives but investment and returns. We both 'own the city essentially.

Will trade be a big part of this? Yes, of course it will be. Is it a big part of it now? No. Right now it's about defining borders and hooking them on this location specifically. That way when trade does come up we can finagle it to all come through here and through us.
 
Picking up this quest and I'm curious. Is it better to read it here or read the royal road version until I catch up?
It really depends if you're curious about all the "mechanical" parts of the quest. I'd say if you don't, go to RR because there are a few retcons that happened and were only reflected on RR (also, fewer typos).
 
That's the thing though, there isn't any nomads as a buffer state anymore, not really.

I think we disagree there. There's a huge amount of mountains between the emerald forests and the south plains, and all of that is currently cloud nomads. We aren't going to be able to even put people on the likely border with the white sky because lower realms can't survive there.

It's not like we are butting heads from opposite sides of a river.

From Guan Zhi, before we assaulted the first diplomatic summit:

"Imperial cartographers have measured that the whole of the Wall spans a region as large as the Emerald Seas itself, larger still if we count the foothills where the mountains give way to the lands of ice."

They don't want us killing their people and taking the lands they claim and we don't want to add to the wars we're already fighting. The best way to do that is to keep diplomacy open and to have borders marked.

Except that there has been no diplomacy and no borders for thousands of years and there wasn't any war or killing- they are too far past the cloud nomads buffer state. We barely knew eachother existed. That's the status quo, not fear of invasion.
 
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Both sides are already claiming the edges of the wall and the White Sky are integrating the southern Cloud Nomads. Remember the Cloud Nomads aren't a homogenous group, they also raid some of the White Sky and are actively recruiting from the Cloud People they are integrating. It's not a buffer state, at best it's a hostile buffer zone. And how much longer until our expansion and their expansion butt up against each other? And who says lower realms can't survive on the potential border with the White Sky? Just because the area is hostile and untamed doesn't mean someone can't come in and make it hospitable for mortals and lower realms, it's just harder.

Remember the reason the White Sky were at the caldera was to try and convince the other Cloud Nomads to not join the war and do as Ilsur and other Cloud tribes have done and integrate with the White Sky. Part of or initial meeting was them designating which tribes they consider friendly so we wouldn't kill them on site at this point.

"Yes, the Cloud folk stirring. I suspect the echoes rolling through the land are your own folk's reprisals?" Khadne said.

"It is likely," Ling Qi admitted. "This why we wished to make certain that we spoke with you to avoid any more unfortunate conflict."

"On that note, I have compiled some documents regarding those tribes which are friendly too us," Jaromila said. "I hope that the clan of Cai will give these matters consideration."

Ling Qi gave Cai Renxiang a sidelong look, the other girl inclined her head slightly.

"So long as the clans of the Alaniar and Sibiar ensure that their allies know that certain actions cannot be overlooked," Ling Qi said. "The people of Emerald Seas will defend themselves."

Right now, for this summit trade isn't an important point of discussion. Why? Because doing large amounts of trade is next to impossible right now. The land is too wild and the Cloud Nomads are too likely to attack. But it is much easier to move a small group of people with powerful guards to a location that is mostly secure. Once you secure the route between the midpoint (summit location) and the borders of our civilizations THEN trade can begin.

Essentially us building the telescope here is us saying that we are serious about this whole situation and we are inviting them to be serious about this too.
 
Both sides are already claiming the edges of the wall and the White Sky are integrating the southern Cloud Nomads. Remember the Cloud Nomads aren't a homogenous group, they also raid some of the White Sky and are actively recruiting from the Cloud People they are integrating. It's not a buffer state, at best it's a hostile buffer zone. And how much longer until our expansion and their expansion butt up against each other?

There's a LOT of wall between it's two edges. So given that the area of the wall is said to be as great as the area of the whole emerald seas, maybe a few millennia if the empire doesn't suffer any serious reprisals?

There are said to be at least a hundred tribes that the sect is aware of but had almost no contact with, presumably because they are too far south.

And who says lower realms can't survive on the potential border with the White Sky? Just because the area is hostile and untamed doesn't mean someone can't come in and make it hospitable for mortals and lower realms, it's just harder.

We know lower realms can't survive high altitude. We know that most of the terrain of the wall is above the level where it kills mortals, some of it high enough to give 4th realms issues. So setting a border roughly in the middle of the wall, and making it hospitable enough for mortals to survive, would be a massive geoengineering challenge as we physically reduced the height of the mountains.
 
There's a LOT of wall between it's two edges. So given that the area of the wall is said to be as great as the area of the whole emerald seas, maybe a few millennia if the empire doesn't suffer any serious reprisals?

There are said to be at least a hundred tribes that the sect is aware of but had almost no contact with, presumably because they are too far south.



We know lower realms can't survive high altitude. We know that most of the terrain of the wall is above the level where it kills mortals, some of it high enough to give 4th realms issues. So setting a border roughly in the middle of the wall, and making it hospitable enough for mortals to survive, would be a massive geoengineering challenge as we physically reduced the height of the mountains.

Not necessarily? There are things one can do just like there are ways for people to survive really tall mountains or get used to operating near the Death Zone, etc, etc, especially with magic at hand.

The problem is that all of this is a big investment of time and resources, and might not happen easier any more than, say, Everest happened easily.* Since it took decades and decades of technological advances to make it climbable at all.

It also depends on how many 'peaks and valleys' there are.

*Everest is high enough that mortals, IE regular humans, literally can't live in the Death Zone, so, that but worse is the kind of comparison we should be making.
 
The world map threadmark is good for getting a sense of the relative sizes of the areas. And I'm not sure what options are for blocking poisonous stellar Qi, as opposed to just making sure thin air doesn't kill you.
 
The world map threadmark is good for getting a sense of the relative sizes of the areas. And I'm not sure what options are for blocking poisonous stellar Qi, as opposed to just making sure thin air doesn't kill you.

Some sort of Stellar Qi-Absorbing device could potentially be possible. Of course that'd also do the narratively interesting thing of making it a dramatic point, whether you'll run out of your protections in time or not. Or people even attacking each other's 'necklaces of safety.'

Drama is important. :V
 
There's a LOT of wall between it's two edges. So given that the area of the wall is said to be as great as the area of the whole emerald seas, maybe a few millennia if the empire doesn't suffer any serious reprisals?

There are said to be at least a hundred tribes that the sect is aware of but had almost no contact with, presumably because they are too far south.



We know lower realms can't survive high altitude. We know that most of the terrain of the wall is above the level where it kills mortals, some of it high enough to give 4th realms issues. So setting a border roughly in the middle of the wall, and making it hospitable enough for mortals to survive, would be a massive geoengineering challenge as we physically reduced the height of the mountains.

Do you have sources for that number of tribes the sect is aware of? And for the Wall mainly being in an altitude that it kills mortals? Because if that's true how the hell have the Cloud Nomads been able to survive it with any meaningful number of people?

And you don't need to conquer the whole of the Wall to become a potential problem, you just need to conquer a relatively easy pass and keep it secure.

Look, what I'm trying to get at is that talk of trade at THIS summit is a bad idea. There's no reason to really bring it up. We don't have the infrastructure or the backing from the clans to make it work in the immediate future. Hell, we don't even know what sort of infrastructures the two sides would need to build in order to facilitate trade because we don't know where the other group really is besides a vague 'over that way'. Do you know what would help with that? Clearly defined borders and maps.

Then we have the issue of future meeting places. Guess what? We're already putting effort into a halfway point so let's push to make this spot the meeting place going forward.

And if we can agree that this current location is the best place to meet halfway we should do our best to make the trips here and back as safe as possible.

From there, once we have a set point we are working on together, that we are keeping safe, then we can go back to the clans and say we have a proof of concept. That we have the beginnings of what is needed to trade with foreign lands and get the actual backing that we need to make trade and long term diplomatic relations work.
 
The source I am referencing is as follows:

"It is a common misconception to imagine the cloud tribes as a homogenous group," Guan Zhi said bluntly. "This is false. Imperial cartographers have measured that the whole of the Wall spans a region as large as the Emerald Seas itself, larger still if we count the foothills where the mountains give way to the lands of ice."

"There are, in these mountains, more than a hundred tribes with which we have had very little contact," Diao Gen said, drumming his fingers on his elbow. "And many dozens more of whom we are aware, but which have so far disdained this conflict. However, we have divined unprecedented movements among these more distant tribes. While the barbarians' great gathering at Star's Throne Peak this past year is a known factor, a sort of primitive diplomatic moot which occurs once every decade, sect observers were becoming concerned at the tribes' strange movements and mergers of more southerly tribes in its wake, even before the current war began."

www.royalroad.com

Threads 124-Convergence 2 - Forge of Destiny

The pavilion where the meeting was to take face was filled with third realms, around two scores of Inner Sect disciples. Most, Ling Qi judged, were from (...)

Look, what I'm trying to get at is that talk of trade at THIS summit is a bad idea. There's no reason to really bring it up.

And I'm stuck on the "why have these summits at all? What do we get out of it?" question. I feel like your approach simply assumes that everyone agrees that continued contact is good and worth laying out resources for. I am assuming that if there is no profit to be had, future attempts at summits will simply be ignored, and we end up making no more difference in the long term than that diplomatic marriage way back in the day did.

So I think there needs to be a hook. A payoff, that will make working with the scary and weird northerners worth it despite our (meng) attempts to drag them into our war, or the (MoI) insults and scorn.

Basically I think our position with the white sky isn't strong enough to get a second meeting without trade- not when the costs to engage with us are looked at. It's like trying to build the silk road between China and Rome except without silk or spices.
 
Turn 18: Arc 1-3
One of the biggest stumbling blocks to establishing anything substantial was the distances involved, the roughness of the terrain, the hostility of the tribes. It was one of the reasons they'd ultimately decided not to lean too hard on trade relations. Merely setting up the infrastructure to allow those things in any bulk would be a work of years at minimum, even ignoring the ongoing war.

This… was another complication, but it was also an opportunity. If she took Jaromila's words to heart, the White Sky lacked the fine glassmaking necessary for devices like this, but did desire such things. A small number of experts was much easier to move than a great caravan of goods. If their idea of a foreign quarter was to bear any fruit, then they would need something to provide an official draw.

"Meng Dan, may I ask what sort of compensation might satisfy your clan on this subject?" Ling Qi asked.

He cupped his chin, frowning deeply. "...That depends on several things."

He gave her a long look, in which she read his meaning. It would depend on the balance of internal Meng factions, who managed to tug at the clan heads ear, and convince him on this matter one way or the other. She took a deep breath. "Then if we go forward, I hope to speak with your uncle on the matter. I hope a reasonable price can be found."

Meng Dan considered, heard her unspoken question. "I believe that is possible, Lady Ling."

Cai Renxiang gave them a sharp nod. They didn't need to speak of the Ministry here, the difficulties there were obvious, but… not insurmountable. It would have to be sold carefully. Particularly if she could arrange for some up front information sharing, the General was interested in knowledge of their enemies below, the Wang would have an interest if only because learning the patterns of the sky was important for establishing agriculture and even geomancy in a new region. It would be helpful to building efforts.

Astronomer Wu observed them with polite confusion. "Ah, I suppose there is more to this? I had believed her Grace's interest was enough…"

"My honored Mother has chosen not to interfere overmuch here," Cai Renxiang said. "Her support is helpful, but the convincing lies with me. I will see your proposal presented, Astronomer."

"Oh yes, I suppose that makes some sense," he said, nodding quickly. "I apologize if this is troublesome."

"No more than the many other requests we will receive, Meng Dan said lightly. "Now Astronomer Wu, this Stellar qi radiating out, would you tellus what you said to me about its relation to some of current enemies?"
"Ah! Of course, the star stones and that… thing which so badly struck the Argent Sect Elder," The thin man said. "Well, from the scraps of the Elder's cassock I was able to examine and my observations, they are certainly similar energies. Not the same, but if I had to make an estimation they likely arise from a common ancestor. To think that some old tales of fallen stars might actually be true… It is quite shocking!"

Ling Qi shared a look with Cai Renxiang, drawing her eyebrows together. "And, has her grace shared the evidence turned up in our own explorations…?"

"Oh yes, the beast dust. That was much more similar to the southern energies," Wu agreed cheerfully. "Though much less potent. Well, I would need access to some further records but it really does seem some phenomena is increasing the intensity and activation of these phenomena. If they were always so common, I cannot imagine no scholar would have failed to observe them until now."

"I see, thank you Astronomer," Cai Renxiang said calmly.

"...What is known of starstone, and energies like it?" Ling Qi asked. "I use some amount of moon filtered stellar qi in my cultivation, but it is nothing so…"

Sickening. Foul. Destructive.

"Filtered stellar qi comes to us by way of the moon and sun, and has a significant role in a number of phenomena," Astronomer Wu said, falling easily into lecture. He looked quite pleased by the question. "It is wholly different made of this world by the time it reaches us."

"When She who became the Hidden Moon named the stars, she took from them their light, their poison, their foundation, and wrought of it the Adamant Filter, which shields the world from their malice when the sun is far away on campaign," Meng Dan said, pushing up his eyeglasses.

"Yes, the origins of all these systems lie in the temple tales, this humble scholar only explores their function," Astronomer Wu agreed. "Hm, it is known that unfiltered starlight is inimical to terrestrial materials, and particularly corrosive to formationcraft. That is true. But it is also destructive unto itself, or rather, terrestrial and stellar material are mutually annihilatory."

Ling Qi furrowed her brow. "So just as it crumbles things of the earth, it is destroyed in turn this way?"

"That is the theory, but I will admit it is an old and dusty one, due to lack of rigorous study. Starstone and similar have only appeared very occasionally from the wall, and until Ogodei, it was last recorded in any significant quantity during the strife of Twin Emperors. The Usurper Shang was said to have found a method of using it as fuel for his devices and wonders, producing power that no spirit stone furnace or injector could match," Astronomer Wu said cheerfully. "Well there are very few records from that period or before, due to the awfulness that followed.."

The Strife… that was the transition between the first and second dynasty, where the empire had been split in supporting the two twin brothers vying for the throne. It was said to have lasted a thousand years, had destroyed the Sage's direct descendants entirely and ruined great swathes of the Empire.

"Where in the world would he find such things, " Ling Qi wondered.

"If answers to that exist, then I do not have access to such things," the older man said. "...And it is a bit on the edge of my field."

"The Theory continues that, because unfiltered stellar qi destroys and is destroyed by mere contact with the terrestrial, its remnants from the time of creation must have largely withered away by the modern day," Cai Renxiang spoke, crossing her arms. "Obviously mistaken."

"Indeed, indeed," Wu agreed cheerfully. "Though from the shards of that stone which remained at the Caldera, and from looking at records of what was recovered from Ogodei's battles, the stellar material used by the nomads is…impure. It is somehow mingled with terrestrial material. It was theorized that this is merely part of the decaying process, a temporary and unstable state, and that may be so, but it is not a subject given much study…"

"I suppose that will have to change, given the increasing amount showing up in unwanted places," Meng Dan said mildly. "I have read Lady Cai's reports on this… Labyrinth within the glacier you have discovered. Will you be plumbing it soon?"

"Relatively, I'm sure," Ling Qi replied dryly.

"Relatively, of course," Meng Dan chuckled. "Will the study of any artifacts or treasures be done here then, or will they be sent back to the capital?"

"I hadn't really considered that," Ling Qi said. "But I suppose the right facilities are being put up…"

"It is a distant concern," Cai Renxiang said with a frown. "Some months out, to even begin, but…"

"Well, I would of course be pleased to have real stellar materials on hand to study for certain," Wu said. "Of course as proud as I already am of the facilities, they are still much inferior to the workshops of the Xiangmen."

"Indeed, though I expect there will be a rather longer wait for results. Unless something truly catastrophic were to occur, enough to move Mother to intercede directly, there would be many other tasks and studies ahead."

"That titan who appeared at the caldera is not catastrophic?" Ling Qi asked incredulously.

"You would imagine, but no," Renxiang retorted.

"Academia is a slow moving battlefield, where every skirmish may take years or decades," Meng Dan said lightly. "So far as I know most consider it to be merely a dangerous high realm or spirit beast. Certainly something to be alarmed by, but military business, not theirs."

"Yes, I suppose the young sir is right," Wu said weakly. "It can be difficult to get new projects into the highest workshops. The overseers and administration is quite stubborn. Although the Ministry of Integrity has shown some interest in the materials as well."

"Ling Qi, it may be a minor matter now, but it is best settled on soon, that proper arrangements may be made. It is my opinion that using local facilities for anything we might find in our explorations will be the superior option. You are free to convince me otherwise."

Ling Qi considered for a moment. Did she disagree?

[ ] No. In addition to potentially being a another bone to toss to the Meng, as a high profile project for their facilities here, you would rather receive results in a more reasonable time frame. (Faster turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, Smaller bonus for identification and safety. Reformer/Conservative Meng like this)

[ ] Yes. Little enough is known, and the facilities at the capital are superior. She would like to get use out of any treasures sooner rather than later, but she would like to be certain of their safety even more. (Slower Turnaround on Labyrinth Loot, higher rolls for identification and safety. MoI likes this)
 
I'm thinking yes on this one. It's a bone to throw to the MOL and that will open up more flexability in future negotiations.
 
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