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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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[X] Wanted to see to the possibility of adding an observer from the Golden Fields, more formally bringing them in and largely completing the set. (More difficult ask of Han Jian, adds additional complexity to Summit. Roll for degree of success if chosen.)

[X] Wanted to him to raise the possibility with his own connections of whether experts on Twilight corruption could be enticed to speak with the Seared lands experts, as a bargaining chip for negotiations. (Easier ask of Han Jian, keeps Summit as is, leaves Golden Fields isolated from the project.)
 
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Erebeal said:
And getting into the whole Han/Guo tensions is the last thing we want.
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The Grinning Moon in me would be tempted to pick the option for that exact reason. :p
Anyways, Yrs said on the Discord that if it's option 2 it'll probably be Han experts who are brought in. So in a way the Golden Fields will still be involved with the project, albeit not on the Ducal level.
...Which might lead into the Han/Guo tension anyway if the Han and the Seared Lands end up hitting it off, and the Guo see their vassal gaining stuff from a foreign alliance. Ohohoho.
 
And the Han are arguably the people to ask on this topic too, since we know from that Sect promotional that they're the ones who manage much of the irrigation and geomancy.
 
More arrows in the quiver are a plus, and Han experts are a resource that none of the other representatives will have an equivalent for. Very powerful card for Ling Qi to have up her sleeve during negotiations, and the Guo are collectively distancing themselves from this affair anyway.

The Han acting as a Golden fields rep would be the trap to.flare up tensions imo. But arranging a mutual exchange of info in the boundaries of the Hans actual remit? Totally different story
 
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Erebeal said:
The second I think. Ultimately the foreign observers are an annoyance to us as much as anything, and if the Guo wanted to send someone they've had plenty of time. And getting into the whole Han/Guo tensions is the last thing we want.

The second gives us a straightforward simple reason and opportunity that makes use of the connections we've acquired over the years and justifies talking to Han Jian here.
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Ere, babe, I want the first option.
 
It occurs to me that by having one province not represented, we restrict the ability of the empress to take over negotiations if she feels by claiming that the entire empire is represented, so the empire as a whole should negotiate.

A paper shield, but in paper wars those help.
 
Orkus Majorkus said:
Lol how do you make a conversation between casual friends be more awkward than foreign diplomats whose nations are meeting speaking for the first time after killing each others soldiers. Never change, Jian
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This is 100% on us Ling Qi, not him. We said goodbye over a year ago and now we're popping in at the last minute, not really to pay our respects, but to ask about some minor details relating to the project we're working on. And then we're not going to see him for several more years probably. If we had to meet up with Han Jian this is pretty much my least favorite way we could have done it.

The Liao Zhu part of this update was great though.

Edit: I'm not really blaming voters for all of this though, I don't think there was anything about our project in the vote text, and our previous stop on our farewell tour was definitely not a business meeting.
 
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[ ] Wanted to see to the possibility of adding an observer from the Golden Fields, more formally bringing them in and largely completing the set. (More difficult ask of Han Jian, adds additional complexity to Summit. Roll for degree of success if chosen.)

A chance of failure and greater complexity even on success? No thanks.
If the Guo didn't want to be isolated from the project they could have sent a representative a month or two ago together with the other ducals.
Sun Liling coming to the Summit place next turn is already bad enough.

The Han earned their Marquis rank through the development and implementation of the Oasis system. Not sure how much that would be applicable to the bogs and the steppes, but it's still a very valuable piece of information that the Han can share at their discretion.
I'm sure the techniques to keep the Grave's influence at bay and allow the development of life would be of great interest for the Seared Lands.

The Gu-Han-Guo relationships are kind of a mess right now.
The Gu are vassals to the Han, but the Han don't want the Gu to grow any stronger because they fear they could reach Count level and become independent.
That's why Han Jian said his father would never allow a marriage between him and Xiulan, because they don't want the Gu to acquire more avenues of power. I'm sure they were pleased when the Gu broke the engagement between Xiulan and Fan Yun, who comes from an important GF Count Clan.

Then, the Guo are wary of the Han because Grandmother Tiger is thought to reach White at some point, the same realm as Grandfather Fortress. Combine that with the Han's Oasisses and there could be voices questioning who should be the Dukes of the GF.
I think there were talks about Han Jian marrying a Guo princess or something?
If the Han gains connections with the Seared Lands, the Guo could indeed feel more threatened. But the Han coming to them and "asking" that the GF sends a representative can also be seen as a power move, so we can't do much in that regard.
If the Guo wants to feel offended they will.

I say we go for the most beneficial option and let the GF with their own internal struggles.

[ ] Wanted to him to raise the possibility with his own connections of whether experts on Twilight corruption could be enticed to speak with the Seared lands experts, as a bargaining chip for negotiations. (Easier ask of Han Jian, keeps Summit as is, leaves Golden Fields isolated from the project.)
 
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I'm leaning towards option 2, even if it might cause headaches down the road with the Guo getting miffed at the advantage/face/opportunity given to the Han. It gives us something to work with now, which can be built out into more later. Or not. Both are fine. It gives opportunities for positive or negative developments, but it doesn't impose obligations, which we/the narrative have quite a few of at the moment.

Edit: rereading this, it sounds like I'm angling to eat our meal and then skip out on the bill, hah. But it's more delaying it till another day, in motivation.

yrsillar said:
"It's division that gives meaning to anything at all," Ling Qi replied. "If all is one, then one is nothing. The Nameless chose division over Oneness."

She wasn't… quite sure where those words came from. She suspected though. A crescent smile beneath starry antlers.

Liao Zhu regarded her silently, there on the cliffside, crossing his arms. "Most would say the opposite, that they chose to combine themselves, to reach for one another in their divine solitude."

"...That is not oneness. It is choosing to be a pair of parts, rather than immutable divine wholes, uncomprehending. The mere act of reaching out, of seeking understanding refutes oneness, promotes multitude."
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Glimpsing a bit more of Huisheng's philosophy is interesting. And it's not so far from Ling Qi's own, independent philosophizing. His rejection of Oneness shares a lot in common with Ling Qi's rejection of (total) Freedom. Both are conceived of as a state of absolute autonomy and absolute loneliness. It'd be interesting to know how much this is coincidence, and how much the context of Ling Qi's noggin is shifting the specifics of Huisheng's beliefs. But that's probably fundamentally unknowable (for narrative reasons, if nothing else) and that's fine!
 
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yrsillar said:
"All division is an illusion, as the Dream sects might say," Laio Zhu replied, eyes twinkling.

On her back Hanyi huffed in annoyance at the interrupted slide.

"That's wrong," Ling Qi replied. "Or at least, distorts the definition of illusion to meaninglessness."

"Hoh? I did not know my junior sister was interested in theology," Liao Zhu said, raising an eyebrow. There was a faint scar, parting it know, skin not so much burned as bleached.

"It's division that gives meaning to anything at all," Ling Qi replied. "If all is one, then one is nothing. The Nameless chose division over Oneness."

She wasn't… quite sure where those words came from. She suspected though. A crescent smile beneath starry antlers.

Liao Zhu regarded her silently, there on the cliffside, crossing his arms. "Most would say the opposite, that they chose to combine themselves, to reach for one another in their divine solitude."

"...That is not oneness. It is choosing to be a pair of parts, rather than immutable divine wholes, uncomprehending. The mere act of reaching out, of seeking understanding refutes oneness, promotes multitude."
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Hmmm... it is possible that we are seeing a bit of why Elder Huisheng takes the name "Arch-Heretic of the Dreaming Way."

If the dream sects are inheritors of the Dreaming Way's theology, then Ling Qi voicing this distinction could be a critical difference between the mainstream Dreaming Way and Huisheng's branch. One version sees the divine act to be breaking past the illusion of distinction between all. The other version advances the idea that distinctions should be valued and that reaching out despite the differences is the divine act.
 
[X] Wanted to him to raise the possibility with his own connections of whether experts on Twilight corruption could be enticed to speak with the Seared lands experts, as a bargaining chip for negotiations. (Easier ask of Han Jian, keeps Summit as is, leaves Golden Fields isolated from the project.)
 
[X] Wanted to him to raise the possibility with his own connections of whether experts on Twilight corruption could be enticed to speak with the Seared lands experts, as a bargaining chip for negotiations. (Easier ask of Han Jian, keeps Summit as is, leaves Golden Fields isolated from the project.)
 
[X] Wanted to see to the possibility of adding an observer from the Golden Fields, more formally bringing them in and largely completing the set. (More difficult ask of Han Jian, adds additional complexity to Summit. Roll for degree of success if chosen.)
 
[X] Wanted to him to raise the possibility with his own connections of whether experts on Twilight corruption could be enticed to speak with the Seared lands experts, as a bargaining chip for negotiations. (Easier ask of Han Jian, keeps Summit as is, leaves Golden Fields isolated from the project.)
 
there are a lot of problems with option 1:
First, option 2 is actually just good. There's an edge case where Guo get tense about having Han here and no Guo, but the experts won't be political representatives and will only have about as much claim to being "represented" as many of the clan members that are here without explicitly being representatives. They can claim some face if it goes really well, but can't really be considered "present" as a rep of the clan if things aren't good. It's very minor, and frankly

the Second problem is that option 1 can be much more obstructive. It'll always succeed, but if we roll bad then bad things happen. Frankly speaking, we don't need additional failure points on a must-succeed-greatly project. Sure it could go "well" but what would that even look like?

the Third issue is that the rewards are nebulous. How good would "completing the set" even be? would it be significantly more powerful than having nearly the whole set? Would it open more routes for the summit to be contested from the Peaks? The downsides are very obvious, but the benefits aren't.

of course, potential benefits will be more obvious once the project is up and running. This is a Fourth issue, in that there doesn't seem to be any real reason that Guo can't get looped in during later phases of the project? What, are they gonna ignore a new path to inbound riches that just happens to need Glass and The-Ability-To-Power-Sleds-With-Something-Similar-To-Windstones? We don't need them at the outset, the Empire itself didn't have all members at the start. Once the benefits are obvious, the ability to loop them in will be all the easier.

it's like. It's an immensely strange risk to gamble on, with nebulous benefit and definite downsides. Especially because there's no real obstacle to looping them in later? Unless the Guo take immense umbrage with us bringing in Han specialists for internal-strife-reasons? But like, they simply don't have the luxury to infight like that against the perpetual Ash Walker threat? So I mean, unless we're incredibly miscalculating on a meta level we just don't have a lot of incentives to take this risk. Especially since the negatives are so obvious?

[X] Wanted to see to the possibility of adding an observer from the Golden Fields, more formally bringing them in and largely completing the set. (More difficult ask of Han Jian, adds additional complexity to Summit. Roll for degree of success if chosen.)

I don't imagine this'll win, but what can I say I want the whole set lol
 
[X] Wanted to him to raise the possibility with his own connections of whether experts on Twilight corruption could be enticed to speak with the Seared lands experts, as a bargaining chip for negotiations. (Easier ask of Han Jian, keeps Summit as is, leaves Golden Fields isolated from the project.)
 
[X] Wanted to him to raise the possibility with his own connections of whether experts on Twilight corruption could be enticed to speak with the Seared lands experts, as a bargaining chip for negotiations. (Easier ask of Han Jian, keeps Summit as is, leaves Golden Fields isolated from the project.)
 
[X] Wanted to him to raise the possibility with his own connections of whether experts on Twilight corruption could be enticed to speak with the Seared lands experts, as a bargaining chip for negotiations. (Easier ask of Han Jian, keeps Summit as is, leaves Golden Fields isolated from the project.)
 
[X] Wanted to him to raise the possibility with his own connections of whether experts on Twilight corruption could be enticed to speak with the Seared lands experts, as a bargaining chip for negotiations. (Easier ask of Han Jian, keeps Summit as is, leaves Golden Fields isolated from the project.)
 
[X] Wanted to him to raise the possibility with his own connections of whether experts on Twilight corruption could be enticed to speak with the Seared lands experts, as a bargaining chip for negotiations. (Easier ask of Han Jian, keeps Summit as is, leaves Golden Fields isolated from the project.)
 
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