Huh. I could have sworn your post ended there. Weird.
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
So, the big issue here that is shared by all the calculation is that it's assuming perfect scenarios for training. E.G, 20AP of relevant arts. Given how important base cultivation, challenge research, meridians, etc and so on are, this makes it that this would be at best situational. More importantly though, is that we might simply not have the needed art to do so.
Unwavering Discipline Pill is actually a good pill as you noted, though it will soon get worse as our cultivation successes per AP rise. Turn 4 we are going to get 140~AP, for example, and it will be better latter too. Still, for now it's good.
Gelid Empowerement Pill is basically a pill that needs our Yin arts to be of significantly faster cultivation than our base cultivation to be, in the best case scenario of 20AP used for it, just above AP-neutral. When you have to arrange 3/4 weeks around to get 1AP worth or so, I don't think it's even worth thinking about at the current AP cost of getting the pill. In fact, I will say the Pill need to be 0.5AP price before I would consider buying more than 1 of them (as at that price it would give us 1AP if we learn 12~ Art in the turn, which is a normal turn).
Tidal Elixir has a math issue: it gives +0.3 compared to what our arts already gives. That's actually more like at 15% increase. Currently, it means that even in the best case scenario it trades 1AP of cultivation for 6AP of Domain XP (10-4, as sect jobs don't give domain xp).
Melodic Elixir is actually the big one and most powerful one. Pills are not equal there, and Melody is far and above the best. If we were willing to wait for turn 4 before training FVM/FSS/HDW in the same turn with 3/4/4 actions, we would get 1613 + 1141 + 1070 = 3 824~ Art successes, and 956 spiritual successes. Which would be 9AP just for the spiritual successes, so a 5AP gain + 880 dice, so another 4AP gain for music art.... meaning a total of 9AP gain.
So yeah, while other pills sturggle to be net neutral with 20AP invested, Melodic Elixir is a 9AP gain with 11AP invested.
Please don't nerf
- Location
- California
Aha! Thank you for explaining that. I forgot the specifics of that particular relationship, so I wasn't quite grasping the full reprocussions of things.
- Location
- United States of America
Remember snow mom is a Yuki-onna - Wikipedia
Or at the very least, based off one.
I dont think a boss battle is anywhere in the picture as zeqing is peak cyan right now. And will most likely rank up when she let's go of hanyi.
I dont believe an antagonistic relationship is something we have to worry about either as again, spirits are inhuman like and have inhuman like mindsets, however human interaction or interaction with other spirits can change this. We see her growing and taking advice from moon-mom
About letting go. We know she cares about hanyi and is fighting her natural instincts (eat them all) in order to allow hanyi to grow.
Also she specifically said she would only allow us to bind hanyi if we proved ourselves . ( most likely a test of some sorts or trial ) plus it helps that well still be on the mountain/sect so she still has some time near hanyi.
DeAnno
Sometimes words have two meanings
This actually raises some interesting thoughts regarding the maximum number of music arts we can train. Specifically:
@yrsillar , two things:
1) Is Zeqing still offering LWM if we wanted to learn that as well as FSS?
2) Are we limited to 4 total actions of learning FSS+LWM in a single month, due to Zeqing only having 4 "tutoring slots" or whatnot?
Personally, I think that FSS has shown itself to be as potent or more potent than any of our other arts, and dipping back into the Zeqing well is likely to provide good returns. With 8 GSS months in the future and Zeqing's extremely powerful home learning LWM completely is actually not very expensive in AP at all.
----------------------------------
Totally new post, basically:
Looking at some pills, with a view towards efficiency, and some details neglected and easy assumptions made for simplicity:
Pretty simple, at 20 AP this gives 500 XP/30 SP = 16.67 XP/SP into base. However, base cultivation is significantly harder to get than Arts; if we assume relative multipliers of about 2 (on average) and 1.2, then 16.67*2/1.2 = 27.8
Assuming we have enough of these Arts to train when we use it, which is a very reasonable assumption (FVM, FSS, LWM, SCS, PLR, CDE, ENM, HDW, EPC), and also assuming these arts have about 200 dice per action unmodded, 20*200*0.55*0.3= 660 XP/60 SP = 11 XP/SP into arts. Since arts tend to have high multipliers and base tends to have low, this is actually even worse compared to the Discipline pill than it appears. It does give us a lot of Domain XP though, roughly ~12 normal AP of Arts training worth.
If we pull some numbers out of nowhere, we could say that the value of an Art training AP is about 60% Art/20% Skill/20% Domain. So 12 AP of Domain by this guess is about worth 4 AP of Art successes. An AP of Art successes at this point is roughly 2x200x0.55=220 XP, so 4 AP of it is 880 XP worth, quite a huge number and bigger even than what the actual Art XP of the elixir was. Of course, you may think I'm being crazy and Domain is worth 1/6th of Art instead of 1/3rd, in which case it's more like 440. If we let those be our bounds:
(660+440)/60 = 18.3
(660+880)/60 = 25.7
So we can see it's possible that the Tidal Elixir is about as good as Unwavering Discipline, depending on how we count Domain. It's slightly trickier to use though, and it can't cause a cascade effect in Month 3 by getting us to Physical Level 8 a month early either (which is worth +10 dice to everything due to the YSS, which is about ~10*2*20*.55 = 220 in art XP extra it sort of has claim to, though that requires only training it for 16 AP lessening it back by 100 XP base, making it kind of a wash in most ways whichever way we do it.)
This is just a much worse version of melodic elixir for us.
So assuming we could somehow train lots of music arts (not at all ridiculous to get 15: 3x FVM, 4xFSS, 4xHDM, 4xLWM). We could even maybe get more with a new music art from the dive this time, driving us up to 19. But lets leave it at 15, conservatively.
15*80*2*0.55=1320 Art XP
Also, we get 1/4 to spiritual, so
15*280*2*0.55*0.25=1155 Base XP. If we multiply that by 2/1.2 = 1925 effective art XP. Added together (1320+1925)/60 = 54.1
So now we see that any way you slice it, this elixir is definitely a serious cut above the rest, and I think we should sculpt the next 1-2 months of our plans around using it. Seeing that this sort of efficiency exists in the SP market I'm skeptical of burning SP on the other pills unless we can keep our SP value up while doing so.
If we use it next month, it'll probably be EPCx4, Musicx15-16, Challenge Researchx0-1 or something like that. Then we would plan to get our act together re Meridians and Base Cultivation and new Jobs in Month 4. This has the serious advantage of becoming swole in month 3, with capped FVM and capped or near-capped FSS. LWM and HDW would be in meridian hell until Month 4 however.
If we delay, next month is probably Basex8, EPCx4, Meridians/Jobs. This has the advantage that the music month will be slightly better due to EPC (to the tune of about 20 dice more per music action out of 280.) However we don't really gain anything useful in month 3, just meridians to equip arts we would mostly train in month 4.
I am personally of the opinion that we should pounce, and pounce hard, with an extreme Music month 3 featuring the Melodic Elixir and at least 15 AP of musical art trainings. Dithering will only cost us opportunities.
Last edited:
- Location
- latvia
Thank you.
- Location
- Cali
New to this quest and SV in general. Not sure if it's been fully discussed before, but Ephemeral Nights Memory (ENM) seems to be powerful even at rank 1 and is a must-have before we do any serious action unless I'm missing something major.
This ability seems to add additional stealth, spirit hit, and spirit avoid when active. The word reset is weird here, given the mechanics of in-combat stealth having no transition between unsure and unaware as the difference is only in enemy perception rank. Reset seems to suggest turning unaware targets into unready targets, so this might need clarification. Could also use additional clarification with regards non-combat stealth (could this let us reset guards as if they were NPCs?).
Verdict: big stealth boost at the very least, with some bonus spirit hit for landing our debuffs. Potentially enables Metal Gear shenanigans and let us be a Snake.
Wow. A single second might not seem like much, but I would argue that this is one of the single most powerful abilities we've gotten yet. In game terms, this is the only true hard Crowd Control effect we've gained access to across all of our arts. Ling Qi has blinds, slows, andmana qi drain, but this here is a stun, and if you've ever been stuck stunned in a combat situation before, then you know that it doesn't really take much for a stun to ruin someone's day. Even better, this is a stealthy stun with no given range limit and an instant cast.
Verdict: Both a panic button and a potential "I win if you get hit by this" effect. Useful for everything except for social gatherings and cultivation. Currently Ling Qi has no hard CC, and I'd argue that you can never have too much hard CC. Possibly scales up as the art levels
Cons: Needs 11 meridians to equip. Doesn't help cultivation at all. Stun is probably resistable through resilience. Lacks music keyword to be slotted into drug cultivation funtime.
So, am I missing something big, or should we be picking up ENM as soon as we're done with extreme cultivation?
Passing Phantom: D
Duration: Short
The user's presence fades from the mind, forgotten the moment that ones eyes stray from them. Enhances the users stealth and ability to avoid spiritual attacks, as well as slip through spiritual defenses. Allows the user to reset unsure targets to unaware if their stealth is sufficient.
Duration: Short
The user's presence fades from the mind, forgotten the moment that ones eyes stray from them. Enhances the users stealth and ability to avoid spiritual attacks, as well as slip through spiritual defenses. Allows the user to reset unsure targets to unaware if their stealth is sufficient.
This ability seems to add additional stealth, spirit hit, and spirit avoid when active. The word reset is weird here, given the mechanics of in-combat stealth having no transition between unsure and unaware as the difference is only in enemy perception rank. Reset seems to suggest turning unaware targets into unready targets, so this might need clarification. Could also use additional clarification with regards non-combat stealth (could this let us reset guards as if they were NPCs?).
Verdict: big stealth boost at the very least, with some bonus spirit hit for landing our debuffs. Potentially enables Metal Gear shenanigans and let us be a Snake.
Evening Breeze Flourish: D
Duration: Immediate
In an instant the user pulses their qi in a feint, and for one foe a single second of memory vanishes into the mist of time, leaving them disoriented and open for a blow.
Duration: Immediate
In an instant the user pulses their qi in a feint, and for one foe a single second of memory vanishes into the mist of time, leaving them disoriented and open for a blow.
Wow. A single second might not seem like much, but I would argue that this is one of the single most powerful abilities we've gotten yet. In game terms, this is the only true hard Crowd Control effect we've gained access to across all of our arts. Ling Qi has blinds, slows, and
- Stealth: Stun a guard and immediately take them down or sneak by them.
- Get closer: Out of range and don't want to give a target time to react? Stun them and get closer
- Assassination: Combine the above, so if we ever decide to pick up assassination, landing this to allow us to get in position could be huge
- Chain CC: You know what's better than stunning someone for one second? Using that one second to land another disabling effect, like say a literal chain talisman that stops movement.
- Get away: Stop their movement for a bit and run away. Powerful if the enemy speed or range options are limited.
- Disappear: This ability specifies lost memory, which means that if Ling Qi can hide behind or inside of something (like a shadow!) during the one second, it will look like she completely disappeared or never existed. Narratively, this could make a mook think that they were hallucinating before they raise the alarm.
- Sabotage: Again, lost memory could make this ability hard to detect, which means that if this were cast from stealth on someone who is working on something, the disorientation can damage what they're working on. (Examples: talisman creation, pill making, formation inscribing, etc)
- Disruption: Hard CC is often used to interrupt abilities that are being channeled or casted or to mess up timing. Imagine if this ability were used against Ling Qi and all of her music. Better yet, what are the odds that the upcoming team tournament arc won't have teams containing a high-priority support or artillery member that have a channeled ability or huge round-winning long cast spell that needs to be stopped?
Verdict: Both a panic button and a potential "I win if you get hit by this" effect. Useful for everything except for social gatherings and cultivation. Currently Ling Qi has no hard CC, and I'd argue that you can never have too much hard CC. Possibly scales up as the art levels
Cons: Needs 11 meridians to equip. Doesn't help cultivation at all. Stun is probably resistable through resilience. Lacks music keyword to be slotted into drug cultivation funtime.
So, am I missing something big, or should we be picking up ENM as soon as we're done with extreme cultivation?
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
Picking ENM is something most agree on, but you've been misreading a few things.
- Meridian wise, ENM begins in ENM1 with 3 meridians (2leg/1Arm), then get another arm at the third level, and then another leg at the fifth. for a total of 5 meridians (3legs/2arm).
- Evening Breeze Flourish is not a stun, it's just a misredirection. E.G, its mechanical effect are a buff to the attack we use at the same time.
- We actually have a few disables already. Elegy has a chance to paralize, Travelers End's nuke has a chance to do the same too, Lunatic Whirl force an opponent to dance with an illusion (as well as cut out their abilities to use arm arts), our worms also grapples.
- Location
- Cali
Hrmm, Flourish reads like an instant-speed line-of-sight interrupt, but if it's not like that then it's power level is far more reasonable. It should at least cancel channels/chants due to disorientation/memory fart at fast speed, just requires slightly more investment, so then instead of being the all-powerful panic button, it'll just be a more consistent interrupt that needs no setup.
Thanks, that info wasn't entirely clear from the description.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Complete consensus on the money, and 6cp edging out the other distributions.
Last edited:
Interesting that with our Arts next levels its looking a lot like we're building up to a spectacular, devastating climax if they fail to rushdown/disrupt the performance(and thus it's going to work a couple of times before the meta adapts).
Illustrious Phantasmal Festival -> Mist of the Vale -> Run through the FVM song towards Traveler's End with Joyous Toast boosting as desired to counter dispels and punch through spiritual armor -> Joyous Toasted conclusion, everyone in the mist eats an A rank spiritual attack that shatters them.
Illustrious Phantasmal Festival -> Mist of the Vale -> Run through the FVM song towards Traveler's End with Joyous Toast boosting as desired to counter dispels and punch through spiritual armor -> Joyous Toasted conclusion, everyone in the mist eats an A rank spiritual attack that shatters them.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
It's unclear whether we need to Joyous Toast casting Travelers' End or the explosion itself, but we shouldn't need to do it for both- and it should not be possible, as TE would be A rank then.
Also, while we are gushing about Traveller's End finale, let's not forget other key techs:
Either of those can also be boosted. Hard to say what boosting them would do, though at the very least SCS the tech should be able to perfectly dodge A rank techs with it.
Oh, and:
I still don't like AFL, but it is also one of our arts that can be boosted.
Yan Renshu.
Was it ever confirmed, I can't remember? He was the main suspect, but I don't remember anything beyond that.
It wasn't confirmed in story but yrs said that it was him. Puppets are his main thing.
- Location
- into cup
Yan never performed a villanous monologue where he claimed responsibility, no, but he specialises in the kind of minion that was used in the framing attempt and would have had an interest in undermining Cai's nascent government. In the absence of a convincing argument that someone else might have been the culprit, I feel pretty good about saying to myself "it was probably Yan Renshu, that fucker" and moving on with my life.
