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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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fictionfan said:
If they didn't help with physical cultivation as well I would say you had a point.
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Qi isn't physical man. You use spiritual energy to improve both your body and your soul. You aren't like sucking it into you and pushing it around your bloodstream. You can't pour a cup of qi.

E: That's besides the point though. I'm only telling you the etymology. This is a standard term in the genre.
 
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BungieONI said:
Why do people think these things which are all made up of Qi stay in stable forms for the most part?
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Do they ? Every cultivator worth their salt absorb qi from the environement, qi which self evidently isn't stable otherwise it wouldn't be absorbable.

In fact I would argue that it's the opposite. Naturally qi flow everywhere and doesn't have any stable form. The qi is held back and transformed into stable qi by spirits or great spirits (for exemple the sun holding back the dangerous stellar qi).

As for what qi truly is ? I would say it's one of the remnant of father chaos.

Let me explain my reasoning. We know that earth is mother order from the barbarians. We also know that the gnawing one come from earth and are filled with impurities (from Suyin). We also know that mortals, as the gnawing ones are filled with impurities (which is what we expulse when breaking trough). Lastly the genesis mythos is that mother order created dolls and father chaos filled them with his essence until they became real people.

Now the assumption, the gnawing ones are actually from mother order. They are what's left of the dolls that preceded mankind.

The reasonning here is based from a great spirit viewpoint (which are the one the mythos came from for reminder).

Mortal can be considered as dolls to a great spirit, after all we are a green and already we can understand them better than they could ever understand themselves, we can manipulate them freely, they are for all intent and purpose dolls dancing upon our strings if we so wish it.

What changed in us since we were mortal you would ask ? Well, we shed impurities but more importantly we took qi in us. We became more because of that qi. We are not dolls, we are not mortals because we took that qi. It's that qi that changed us.

From a great spirit point of view tho, we are still dolls, not yet a real person. Not yet another great spirit. Because we don't have taken in enough qi for to be one yet.

In fact becoming a great spirit in many ways ressemble the creation mythos. We start as dolls, get something coming from father chaos/qi and become real people, we become others great spirits. This similarity for me is not just a coincidence, father chaos essence is qi.

Edit: I have been awake for far too long so please forgive me if it look like a stream of consciousness.
 
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archangis said:
Do they ? Every cultivator worth their salt absorb qi from the environement, qi which self evidently isn't stable otherwise it wouldn't be absorbable.

In fact I would argue that it's the opposite. Naturally qi flow everywhere and doesn't have any stable form. The qi is held back and transformed into stable qi by spirits or great spirits (for exemple the sun holding back the dangerous stellar qi).

As for what qi truly is ? I would say it's one of the remnant of father chaos.

Let me explain my reasoning. We know that earth is mother order from the barbarians. We also know that the gnawing one come from earth and are filled with impurities (from Suyin). We also know that mortals, as the gnawing ones are filled with impurities (which is what we expulse when breaking trough). Lastly the genesis mythos is that mother order created dolls and father chaos filled them with his essence until they became real people.

Now the assumption, the gnawing ones are actually from mother order. They are what's left of the dolls that preceded mankind.

The reasonning here is based from a great spirit viewpoint (which are the one the mythos came from for reminder).

Mortal can be considered as dolls to a great spirit, after all we are a green and already we can understand them better than they could ever understand themselves, we can manipulate them freely, they are for all intent and purpose dolls dancing upon our strings if we so wish it.

What changed in us since we were mortal you would ask ? Well, we shed impurities but more importantly we took qi in us. We became more because of that qi. We are not dolls, we are not mortals because we took that qi. It's that qi that changed us.

From a great spirit point of view tho, we are still dolls, not yet a real person. Not yet another great spirit. Because we don't have taken in enough qi for to be one yet.

In fact becoming a great spirit in many ways ressemble the creation mythos. We start as dolls, get something coming from father chaos/qi and become real people, we become others great spirits. This similarity for me is not just a coincidence, father chaos essence is qi.

Edit: I have been awake for far too long so please forgive me if it look like a stream of consciousness.
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That's fine, it's readable! What I meant by "Why do people think these things which are all made up of Qi stay in stable forms for the most part?" I was talking about how, since every thing, every piece of rock, dirt, fire, air, every piece of matter stays in whatever form they have until they are changed I was asking about why that particular stability exists. Why do things stay as their static forms and shapes, why does matter stay matter, instead of changing without outside input?

I was not talking about the absorbability of qi, which is something else.

And that stream of consciousness also has some merit. Don't really have any questions leaping out at me from it though.
 
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Some old dude hovering over a pond said:
"The first piece of knowledge that you must scribe into your mind is that qi is fundamental to all things," As the ghostly man spoke, ribbons of water rose from the water beneath him, twining around his seated form in an intricate display of control. "It is the clay from which we were shaped by the hands of Those Who Were, and it is the true form of all things. The earth and the sky are composed of qi, as is the flame and the heavenly bolt."
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Material things are also qi. High level cultivators with the right Way can probably drink the earth or breath in lakes for their qi, to further their cultivation or to fuel attacks against foes, fundamentally unraveling the form of matter into immaterial qi. Cool high level cultivators anyway.

Also there's some stuff that isn't qi, but it's gross and smelly and let's just ignore it.
 
BungieONI said:
That's fine, it's readable! What I meant by "Why do people think these things which are all made up of Qi stay in stable forms for the most part?" I was talking about how, since every thing, every piece of rock, dirt, fire, air, every piece of matter stays in whatever form they have until they are changed I was asking about why that particular stability exists.
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Well, once again it doesn't. Only some qi is in a stable form. Earth is stable but air isn't for exemple. At best you could say that earth stably stay earth like and doesn't spontenously change to air, but that's probably simply because qi at rest stay at rest or the equivalent but in elemental terms.
 
archangis said:
Well, once again it doesn't. Only some qi is in a stable form. Earth is stable but air isn't for exemple. At best you could say that earth stably stay earth like and doesn't spontenously change to air, but that's probably simply because qi at rest stay at rest or the equivalent but in elemental terms.
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That's what I am talking about. Air doesn't spontaneously turn into earth, or earth into fire or metal into peaches or any other weird transformation you can conceive of without outside input by a cultivator or other qi using being or a mortal putting in effort.

And yeah the rest state idea is another interesting one, because it raises the question of "What defines what the rest state is? What enforces it?". Two quick off the mark ideas one can immediately reach for are "The Great Spirits dictate what the rest state is and make it so" or "Qi naturally flows into, changes into, certain things and then stays there unless disturbed."
 
BungieONI said:
And yeah the rest state idea is another interesting one, because it raises the question of "What defines what the rest state is? What enforces it?"
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Well, we can divide this in two parts. First what the great spirits of an element say an element is. And secondly what a cultivator say an element is.

First we have been told by yrs that multiple ascensions could change what an element is (or at least nudge it). So I believe that an element is defined by the aspects that compose its great spirit (for exemple the emperor An existence means that death is an element of justice).

Secondly, which into the first part via the ascension, cultivators decide at least partly what an element is for them. For exemple for a water cultivator thinking that water break trough everything, his water elements arts will break trough everything. It's the passives part of an art, mechanically speaking. We don't activate FSS when using FVM but we benefit from the passives of FSS nonetheless because for us music penetrate everything (+5 penetration to music arts).
 
BungieONI said:
And yeah the rest state idea is another interesting one, because it raises the question of "What defines what the rest state is? What enforces it?". Two quick off the mark ideas one can immediately reach for are "The Great Spirits dictate what the rest state is and make it so" or "Qi naturally flows into, changes into, certain things and then stays there unless disturbed."
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Naw, no naturally about it.
Great Spirits define themselves. In defining themselves, they define qi related to themselves.
Mother Earth, by existing/having existed, defines Yin and stasis. Father Sky, by existing/having existed, defines Yang and dynamism.
Between them lies the framework that supports reality, qi knows its Yin, Yang, Balanced or Neither and will remain like that unless told to become something else. A stick is capable of only telling itself "I am a Stick" and will stay a stick unless something happens to it to change that.
Some things are easier, a Stick thats on fire will naturally become ashes, but you'd probably need something to overcome the passive influence of the Great Spirits of Wood and lesser spirits of Sticks to tell a Stick to become Water.
 
Mmmh, all this talk about stats reminded me of something I meant to talk about. Hesitated a bit because [please no more system changes] but upon thinking about it there is no need for @yrsillar to make any changes whatsoever.

Basically, currently there is a dissociation between one's ability in something and how good you are at an art that depends on that thing... sometimes. As in, for attack arts there usually is a strong association bar some exceptions, not dissociation. So FVM or FSS not only need high relevant stats to have any effect, but need up to date potency for their effects- once the technique already worked thanks to the high stats- to have any relevance. OTOH, defensive techs are more of a mixed bag. SCS sort of need one to be good at avoid/stealth to be good, but TRF doesn't need one to be good at health/stamina/p.armor. The biggest offenders are obviously arts like AC or Harmony, where the former doesn't need any unarmed/war to be relevant at all, and the latter is equally as good with Music G and Music S.

Now, it's possible that arts aren't 'meant' to care how good you are about something, and it's just a coincidence that some art needs you to be good at specific stats or skills, but I would argue that not only does it go against the narrative, it also goes against the mechanics of the arts being able to train you in such skill or stats.

So, my proposed Nerf is for Art's tech to not be as effective if you don't have the Tech's rank in an appropriate derived attribute/stat (narrative malus). For examples:
  • Deepwood Vitality need a C rank in Health to be used at maximal effect. Having more than that doesn't matter (Represent its vitality keyword, and how our green breakthrough gave us a bonus to health from Wood)
  • Ten Ring Defense need D rank in Stamina, representing the wide ranges of effect the tech has
  • Hundred Ring Armament need a C rank in P.armor, as its primarily a P.armor art
  • Thousand Rings Unbreaking need a B rank in Stamina, representing again the wide range of effects the tech has
  • Spring Breeze Canto need a Spiritual Hit (music) to D rank, representing ability to manipulate music finely
  • Summer's Day Rising need a Spiritual Penetration (music) to D rank, representing ability to power our music.
Obviously, if it becomes a 'general thing', it doesn't need to actually be said beside saying a tech has the P.armor or Dex keyword or something next to the Tech's rank. Likewise, having a higher stat than necessary wouldn't make the technique stronger, as that would mean having a breakthrough in the technique rather than being better at using it (as the tech already is at maximum efficiency for what it is with necessary rank).
 
I think we have reached the point where the people complaining and wanting fixes to perceived problems are hurting the quest far more then they actually are helping anything. There is little point to the last few pages or heck the complaining rounds before that beside a few people wanting to complain about something.

Like if there was something actually gamebreaking going on then there at least would be a point to all this, right now it is just cosmetics.
 
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i think the system is fine as it is, really.
It might not be perfect and during this playthrough we might find aspects that dont quite work as intended,
but that is ok and @yrsillar will probably take the experience and adjust the system for Quest 3.
So instead of arguing about the system id much rather just focus playing this Quest
 
BungieONI said:
That's what I am talking about. Air doesn't spontaneously turn into earth, or earth into fire or metal into peaches or any other weird transformation you can conceive of without outside input by a cultivator or other qi using being or a mortal putting in effort.
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Also I didn't think of it at first but an element that we will call A that do spontenously change into something else would be very hard to observe because naturally it would not be itself.

If half the qi is stable and half the qi instable, very swiftly the unstable half will change into being of another element, most likely a stable one.

The fact that we can't see any unstable qi might be due to how it has changed to stable qi rather than the lack of existence of it.
 
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Turn 1: Arc1-9 End
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    • Well that was an odd grouping, Ling Qi mused, catching a glimpse of her friend chatting with a rather cornered looking Shen Hu, near the rear wall of the great cloth pavillion the party was taking place in. The scruffy boy had cleaned up somewhat, Ling Qi noted absently as she began to weave through the crowd to reach them.His tangled, twig strewn hair looked like it had recently had a comb pulled through it and the great majority was tied back behind his head with a ribbon. He also seemed to have acquired a shirt somewhere, which felt a little unfortunate.

    She didn't pay much mind to the boys simpel brown and green clothing though, because Xiulan drew her attention more with the change in her appearance. She had another new gown of course, but that wasn't surprising. The shift in color scheme was. Her old red and gold favorites remained at the hems and in the embroidery, but she seemed to have chosen a garment with an electric blue and white sort of color scheme for today's outing.

    She also wasn't wearing her veil, something which Ling Qi noticed even with the girl facing away from her. Ling Qi wasn't sure what to think, and whether to be worried. For a moment, she peered beneath the veil of the physical, only to nearly flinch. Xiulan blazed like the noonday sun, a blinding core of blue white heat beyond any simple fire shining in her senses… but all the same, it seemed a bit less wild, and ill contained than before. Ling Qi grinned as she let the vision fade. Her friend had broken through.

    "Xiulan!" Ling Qi called as she approached. "I am glad you could make it!"

    Ling Qi didn't miss the look of relief Shen Hu gave her as Xiulan turned around.. Here too was another surprise. The ugly black scars which had lined XIulan's face had... changed. Faded to a pale blue shade that only stood out lightly from her pale skin, the marks had shifted, smoothing out and gaining a certain patterned look. At a first glance, they were barely visible, but at a second examination, it seemed almost like the lines of fearsome sort of war paint.

    "Ling Qi," her friend greeted, preening under the attention, the confident smirk that she had worn in their early interactions back after a long absence. "I see you have finally come to an accord with Lady Cai on your role in this sort of thing."

    "It was my lady's suggestion," Ling Qi replied with a grin of her own, it felt good to see Xiulan without the edge of desperation which had colored the last few months. "But I enjoyed the results. What did you think, Shen Hu?" She asked, not wanting to be rude.

    "It was a pretty song," the boy said with an agreeable nod. "It really made me want to explore those mountains too."

    Xiulan blinked, glancing back at him with a raised eyebrow. "Oh, what do you mean Sect Brother?"

    He looked back with confusion and a hint of wariness. "..The song, it was about the mountains south of here, wasn't it?"

    "It was," Ling Qi agreed, a little surprised. Her music was an expression of thoughts and feelings, but she was little surprised that he had been paying enough attention to actually read her intent beneath the trappings of physical sound. "I'm flattered that you were paying such close attention."

    Gu Xiulan let out an amused laugh. "Hmph, is that why you were so distracted from our conversation, Sect Brother Shen?" She asked sweetly. "Entranced by my friend's song?"

    Her eyes met Shen Hu's over the shorter girls head, and she saw there recognition. Good, he knew a trap when he saw one.

    "It was good," he said honestly. "I just didn't know what to say about your match, Sect Sister."

    "What were you two talking about?" Ling Qi asked, deciding to step in before Xiulan could needle him further. "I didn't think you two knew each other."

    "Oh, I was only curious," Xiulan replied, giving her an amused look that told Ling Qi that she was fully aware of the byplay. "We were speaking of the tournament, and I was interested to know about his presence. This hardly seems like your kind of venue, Sect Brother."

    Shen Hu glanced away, scratching at his collar uncomfortably. "Well, Grandad was a woodsman before dad got the title to our village. So, I'm not sure how a lot of this goes. Aren't I supposed to make nice with the bosses daughter and show up when I get invited?"
    Gu Xiulan let out a musical laugh and Ling Qi gave her a quelling look. "I mentioned you to Lady Cai, you said your family's land was in Emerald Seas right?"

    "Oh, uh, thank you," He replied, bobbing his head in a sort of respectful way.

    ...Ling Qi felt like her expectations for what new baronial clans should be like had been skewed.

    "How kind of you Qi," Xiulan said slyly. "Why…"

    "So, since you've broken through, what are your plans going forward, XIulan?" LIng Qi overrode her before she could start teasing, earning an irritated huff.

    "Well my first goal is to challenge for a more appropriate rank," Xiulan announced utterly without shame, earning her more than one look from those nearby. Without my handicap, my current one is far too low. What of you?"

    Ling Qi studiously did not look at the withered arm Gu Xiulan still held close to her side, still wrapped in crimson linen and smelling faintly of smoke through her perfume. "I am not cetain yet. I've received my pass to train with my mentor on the outer Sect Mountain, so I think I might like to spend some time with her," Ling Qi mused.

    Though the cultivation sites which they had trained out before were out of bounds, Zeqing had apparently agreed to train Ling Qi at her home on the mountain peak.

    Site Access Granted

    Origin Temple of Winter's Muse
    Multiplies success for Cold, Dark, and Music keyword arts by 1.3 per applicable keyword(Ex. An art with cold and Music keywords receives a 1.6 multiplier)

    "You have a mentor in the outer sect? How does that work?" Shen Hu asked, sounding befuddled.

    "Oh, she's the spirit that lives at the mountain peak," Ling Qi replied.

    He blinked, then his eyes widened in recognition. "Oh, wow. No wonder that song you used on me sounded familiar."

    "Yes, Qi certainly knows how to acquire… exotic resources," Xiulan huffed, only a tiny edge of jealousy reaching her voice. "What you Sect Brother, your plans?"

    "Hmm, I'd like to explore, but I need to find people to fight if I am going to polish my arts," he said bluntly. "I got rusty fighting nothing but beasts last year."

    "I wouldn't mind sparring with you, if you recall," Ling Qi reminded him, earning a smirk from Xiulan. "Though I haven't filed for it yet."

    "Ah right, we have to do that," he grimaced. "Well it's a pain, but if we have too."

    "You've gotten bold," Xiulan sighed, looking to Ling Qi. "They grow up so fast."

    Ling Qi rolled her eyes. She hadn't been that bad.

    "Reallllly now?" Sixiang murmured.

    'Don't you have poetry to listen to,' Ling Qi thought irritably. Giving the spirit a mental swat. The last thing she needed was to get teased externally and internally. Not letting her annoyance reach her face, Ling Qi gave Gu Xiulan a challenging look.

    "Don't feel left out Xiulan, I've made sure to ask for permission to spar with you too," she said sweetly, meeting the other girls gaze head on.

    "How forward!" Xiulan laughed, masking the the sound behind her frilly sleeve. She really could pull off that high class laugh in a way that Ling Qi couldn't. "I shall look forward to the challenge, if you believe you are up to it. Perhaps I might even join the two of you!"

    Shen Hu was looking vaguely worried again, like a hunter observing a pair of dangerous beasts. "...Well, thanks. Sect Sister Ling," he said awkwardly. "I should probably, uh… go meet more people though. See you later?"

    "Yes, later," Ling Qi sighed, ducking her head respectfully as the boy practically darted away into the crowd. She turned a gimlet eye back to XIulan then. "You went and scared him off," she huffed.

    "Oh I can tell his type, a taciturn warrior, his mind wholly focused upon the tides of battle," she said with a smirk. "And weak to a mere flutter of eyelashes. Shy even, one could say. Best to break him of it, quickly."

    "You just like watching people squirm," Ling Qi replied dryly, glancing down at her all but forgotten cup. She took another sip and restrained her grimace at the sweetness of the orange liquid.

    "There is no wrong in taking enjoyment out of favors done," Xiulan replied with a sniff.

    Ling Qi rolled her eyes, but now that they were left alone, she let her expression grow more serious. "Xiulan, are you doing well?" She asked in a low voice.

    Her friends eyes flashed with affronted pride for a moment, but it faded quickly. "I am," she replied bluntly. "My path is clear once again."

    "I'm glad," Ling Qi replied. "Do you…"

    "Time to get back to the stage," Sixiang whispered. "Breaks over."

    Gu Xiulan followed her gaze to the stage and gestured dismissively. "Be off with you then, this is your glory, is it not?"

    "I wouldn't quite put it like that," Ling Qi replied dryly. "Tomorrow, Xiulan?"

    "I will look forward to it, Qi" her friend replied. Ling Qi offered a shallow bow of gratitude and turned away.

    There was a performance to finish.

    Shen Hu Bond Activated, 0 out of 6 ranks.

    Resolve 2d6
    4,1=5 gained

    You have reached the end of turn 1. Please prepare to vote for turn 2's training actions.

    AN. Site already includes way multiplier

    Vote!
    You have 20 AP to spend this month
    Ling Qi's Income
    20 Yellow Stones(Sect)
    2 Green Stone(Cai Renxiang, Sect)

    Ling Qi's finances are as follows
    103 Red Stones
    16 Yellow Stones
    2 Green Stone
    26 Sect Points

    How many stones will you use?
    16 Free Yellow stones automatically used due to cultivation arts and sites
    [] Additional Stones

    How much will you invest in pills and medicine this month?
    Low-5 dice for 5 red stones per action
    [] Medium- 10 dice for 15 red stones per action Provided freely from Cai Renxiang
    [] High- 20 dice for 25 (40-15) red stones per action
    [] Very High- 30 dice for 60(75-15) red stones per action

    What would you like to cultivate this month? (Select 1 subvote per category)
    [] Physical Cultivation
    -[] Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, Resolve, Wits
    [] Spiritual Cultivation
    -[] Intelligence, Wits, Resolve, Presence, Manipulation, Composure
    [] Meridian
    -[] Head, Heart, Spine, Arm, Lung, Leg
    [] Argent Genesis
    -[] Composure, Qi, Resolve
    []Sable Crescent Step
    -[] Dance, Dodge, Dexterity, Stealth, Wits
    [] Argent Current
    -[] Presence, Unarmed, War
    [] Argent Storm
    -[] Dodge, Dexterity, Wits
    [] Unlearned Art (replace with desired art
    -[] Insert appropriate keywords
    [] Take Sect Jobs(Earns Sect Points 11-20 per AP)
    -[] Any
    [] Perform Sect Duties (Earns Contribution Points 1-4 per AP)
    -[] Any
    [] Exploration Via New Moon Sect Map (MAX 2 AP)
    [] Challenge research (MAX 2 AP)
    [] Research Arts in Sect archive (Max 2 AP)
    -[] Int, Academics

    So first an explanation of new options. Exploration causes Ling Qi to use the map she acquired to explore sites of interest, each AP spent will result in two encounter rolls. Sometimes you will get nothing, sometimes you will find items or treasures, or if the roll is sufficiently high, you may even unlock special events. Challenge Research will fill in information on Inner Sect rankings, and give Bios on people Ling Qi feels she might be able to challenge. Once this information is given, you will have the chance to vote on whether to do so.

    There is also a second part to the vote. Events in the initial turn were fixed, allowing Ling Qi to settle in. You will now have the option to vote for one or more social actions per turn. HOWEVER, please note that these are votes to advance a Bond only. Ling Qi has grown enough to maintain her social circle without constant supervision. Vote for the character or characters whom you would like to see have more screentime. If anything truly problematic occurs, it will come up as an unavoidable section. This vote should also be separate from the plan vote above, do not include it. For now, please only vote for one.

    Available Bond Advances are...

    [] Li Suyin: The proper paperwork is done. You can do the expedition any time. Who knows what you might find, deep below the earth.
    [] Xuan Shi: For once, the odd boy has called in your offered favor. He wishes for your aid in penetrating the interior of an odd little temple full of traps and puzzles.
    [] Shen Hu: A few spars are all well and good, but perhaps it might be fine to take a break and explore for a bit?
    [] Zeqing: The mountains peak grows ever colder. You sense that a trial is coming, with uncertain results.

    There will be a two hour moratorium on votes for discussion.
     
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    • HERE WE GO!

    Anyone want to math out how many AP we need to spend on SCS with the 1.3 modifier on it?

    Anyway though, just off the cuff, I'm thinking 14 AP on Cultivation, max 2 Exploration, and the rest on Sect Jobs/Duties/Research?

    8 AP on Physical and Spiritual, SCS training to get that ready to max out for pre-Appraisal, and then we spend the rest on...

    two Head Meridians opened up, and Curious Diviner's Art to help our exploration?
     
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    Oh boy, plan time.

    Here we go!

    By my part, I'd like to do that exploration thing with Xuan Shi. He's been a great help to us and I'd like to repay that somewhat - not to mention what might be hiding at the end of the temple.
     
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    Exploration with Xuan Shi sounds interesting


    e: Also want to go for challenge setup, there won't be time for this later. So 2 challenge actions hoping to challenge into the 775 bracket?
     
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    We owe Xuan Shi a solid, I'm inclined to repay him the favor, and it'll be great Grinning/Hidden Moon XP to boot.
     
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