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There is no emotion... (A Jedi Order Quest)

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Icipall said:
Only things that were planned all a long and while not being part of the same series (ToJ, NJO, etc.) or published, at most, few years of each other were the og and prequel trilogies, and even they changed along the way.
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Yes, and? That someone strung together random stuff from older material in a shallow way to make it seem like the Vong had preexisting connections doesn't mean it was at all handled either well or especially believably. It can be done well, but the Vong retcons especially stood out as just kinda being especially obvious to the point where as a creative consultant on another SW quest I'd strongly advise tossing those connections out by and large if they ever became relevant. And my advice remains pretty much the same here, or with anyone consuming Vong-related media.
 
The Englanderish said:
Yes, and? That someone strung together random stuff from older material in a shallow way to make it seem like the Vong had preexisting connections doesn't mean it was at all handled either well or especially believably. It can be done well, but the Vong retcons especially stood out as just kinda being especially obvious to the point where as a creative consultant on another SW quest I'd strongly advise tossing those connections out by and large if they ever became relevant. And my advice remains pretty much the same here, or with anyone consuming Vong-related media.
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Just pointing out generally how SW was for a longest time when it came to continuity.
 
Icipall said:
Just pointing out generally how SW was for a longest time when it came to continuity.
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I am in fact aware of this though, and do not entirely see the purpose in talking down to me. Sometimes the continuity patches are well-thought out or nicely thematic or work in some other way. But the Vong ones are not one of those times.
 
The Englanderish said:
I am in fact aware of this though, and do not entirely see the purpose in talking down to me. Sometimes the continuity patches are well-thought out or nicely thematic or work in some other way. But the Vong ones are not one of those times.
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I wasn't talking down to you and if it came across like that, I apologize. I was attempting to offer context in case you weren't aware and everyone reading this on the situation of Legends continuity.
 
Ahh, the classic Boy Meets World answer: increasing transparency about the influences on the plot of a given episode, all the way up to reviewing an episode of The Flintstones because they were going to be lifting that plot almost wholesale while changing a few of the nouns.
 
Barondoctor said:
Ahh, the classic Boy Meets World answer: increasing transparency about the influences on the plot of a given episode, all the way up to reviewing an episode of The Flintstones because they were going to be lifting that plot almost wholesale while changing a few of the nouns.
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More seriously:

Yes clearly it was a dominant influence but "literally just translating FNAF to Star Wars" it is not.
 
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  • Threadmarks
    • You have reconvened, what bit of you remains in the galaxy in any case. To synthesize the knowledge you have claimed from the galaxy in the function of the Jedi.

    With Mical disappeared into the great blue yonder, your Padawans and Initiates are taking up the slack working through one of the many Holocrons you have found.

    Result of Ossus Referendum

    -     The native Ysanna of Ossus have formally requested Republic aid in rebuilding Ossus to the lush world it once was.


    125 Knowledge->25 Points of Progress
    Tier 1

    Training Doctrines- The methods by which you train new Jedi-- how and to what purpose. (Mutually exclusive)
    Many Students, One Teacher (0/5)- There aren't enough of you for you to teach only one student each. For the moment, at least, you need to be training multiples. (Bonus to recruitment Quantity)

    Tier 2

    Infrastructure- While grabbing abandoned temples is always going to be a good plan, there are other questions to consider.
    A Thousand Sparks (0/10)- You will expand far and wide. (Expands to more planets, colonies, and polities)
    A Hundred Bonfires (0/10)- You will focus on heavily entrenching, improving, and rebuilding a few temples. (Expand more heavily to fewer worlds)
    (Note: +5 to Infrastructure research waiting)

    Tier 3

    One Student, One Teacher (Tier 3)
    Personal Attention: A disturbing number of students fell to the Dark Side because they were precocious enough to advance, but did not have the personal attention of their often overworked teachers. Helping break that habit will be useful. (+1 Wisdom) (1/20)
    Back Roads: Often what keeps Jedi from reacting to crises is not being near enough. Having your masters pass on the secret, unknown hyperspace routes, reststops, and shortcuts to your Padawans; and for that matter, among yourselves, will help. (+1 Vigilance) (0/20)
    Let's Just Be Friends: The Jedi are sworn to the Republic; but you are not sworn to be its butchers. Make sure that is very clear to your students . (-1 Detachement for not getting involved in Republic's Wars) (0/20)
    Masters' Trial: Currently, gaining the title of Master is a difficult task; reliant on either training a student to knighthood or a thousand other vagaries. Having a simple trial should help simplify the matter. (Difficulty Check for gaining title of Master reduced by 1)(0/20)

    Combat (Tier 3)
    The Weapon of the Enemy: A crummy blaster and bad attitude are no match for the Force at your side, Padawan. (+1 to checks against ranged enemies) (0/20)
    Force Combat III: Weird, Force based esoterica to allow your students to stand toe-to-toe with the mainline Sith Warriors. (Consulars may use Wisdom check against Dark Knights and Sith Apprentices) (0/20)
    Luke Drew First: Speed over strength. (+1 Combat for Guardians) (0/20)
    Adaptive and Fast on Their Feet: Your Sentinels might not be quite as blade adept as the Guardians, but they make up for that with a wider skillset. (Sentinels may use Skill instead of Combat against Mundane opponents) (0/20)

    On a different note, you can work through one (1) holocron:

    -Holocron of Arren Kae
    -Holocron of Karn Degarr
    -Holocron of Homonix Rectonia
    -Holocron of Vodo-Siosk Baas
    -Holocron of Nomi Sunrider
    -Holocron of Odan-Urr
    -Holocron of Sar Agorn
    -Holocron of the Unknown Jedi
    -Holocron of Garon Jard
    -
    Moratorium for five hours.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Question! Why is the Tier 1 training doctrine still in place? I thought since it was mutually exclusive with the other one, we couldn't get it. So there's no real reason for it to still be visible.
     
    Darik29 said:
    Question! Why is the Tier 1 training doctrine still in place? I thought since it was mutually exclusive with the other one, we couldn't get it. So there's no real reason for it to still be visible.
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    You could vote to research it to get a glimpse at its technologies, and then you would vote for which one you would use.
     
    Voikirium said:
    You could vote to research it to get a glimpse at its technologies, and then you would vote for which one you would use.
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    haven't we been using the other one this entire time? Isn't that why we researched it way back when and then never touched the other one, becaue the table says they were mutually exclusive?
     
    I can't help but feel that Luke Drew First is monstrously anachronistic a name given he doesn't exist yet and won't ever within the time frame of this quest. :V

    Wanna finish off personal attention, not sure what to put the rest of the points into... Backroads, Let's Just Be Friends, and The Weapon of the Enemy are all pretty solid.
     
    I'm thinking 19 to personal attention, and 6 to Hundred Bonfires. Defending a smaller number of locations is much easier than getting spread out and picked off.

    As for which holocron to pick next, I'm tempted by Sar Agorn. He's an ancient Jedi historian of the Ossus era. His knowledge might help us figure out a new route to Tython as the location wasn't lost in his time, and he might also know some things of assistance with our Ossus project, like how it used to look.

    Other interesting picks are the legendary Nomi Sunrider and her surpassing knowledge of Light side force techniques and firsthand experience rebuilding the Order, or the mystery box of the unknown Jedi holocron.
     
    I'm inclined towards Nomi and a thousand sparks. More ideas and flexibility towards practices is what the Jedi need.
     
    Barondoctor said:
    I'm inclined towards Nomi and a thousand sparks. More ideas and flexibility towards practices is what the Jedi need.
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    There's something to be said for the redundancy of spreading out into many facilities, as well as the facility specific perks, but we won't be able to adequately stop a serious attack on any one of them with our reserve forces spread thin. It's also dubious we could get the same level of Republic military commitment for a large number of facilities that we currently have for Dantooine.

    In the event of a conflict breaking out we could lose several facilities in quick succession with all hands before we managed to regather our people onto a defensible footing.

    Is that tradeoff worth it, and I'm just being risk-adverse? I'm not sure.

    There's also the issue that building up facilities is pretty point intensive. I'm not sure we'll be wanting to do it a lot.
     
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    TaliesinSkye said:
    There's something to be said for the redundancy of spreading out into many facilities, as well as the facility specific perks, but we won't be able to adequately stop a serious attack on any one of them with our reserve forces spread thin. It's also dubious we could get the same level of Republic military commitment for a large number of facilities that we currently have for Dantooine.

    In the event of a conflict breaking out we could lose several facilities in quick succession with all hands before we managed to regather our people onto a defensible footing.

    Is that tradeoff worth it, and I'm just being risk-adverse? I'm not sure.

    There's also the issue that building up facilities is pretty point intensive. I'm not sure we'll be wanting to do it a lot.
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    Voikirium said:
    More than quantity vs. quality, it is a question of "do we want a diverse, independent, and creative focus for our order (Thousand Sparks); or a united, proactive, and respected order(Hundred Bonfires)?"
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    Express Word of QM regarding "flexibility-and-creativity vs bound-together-strength" as the issue for Thousand vs Hundred.
     
    Barondoctor said:
    Express Word of QM regarding "flexibility-and-creativity vs bound-together-strength" as the issue for Thousand vs Hundred.
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    Ah, the question of a centralization vs. decentralization model.

    Going decentralized would likely spur innovation, but I worry about whether there would be an increased risk of people going Dark from being poorly monitored and an increased risk of schism from isolated splinter groups that develop odd ideas.

    On the other hand, centralizing the Order too much can lead to stifling orthodoxy that's not healthy, of the sort we saw in the Clone Wars era with the Jedi heavily concentrated in the Coruscant Temple.

    I'd honestly prefer some sort of middle road. Something like half a dozen to a dozen significant installations seems about right?
     
    TaliesinSkye said:
    Ah, the question of a centralization vs. decentralization model.

    Going decentralized would likely spur innovation, but I worry about whether there would be an increased risk of people going Dark from being poorly monitored and an increased risk of schism from isolated splinter groups that develop odd ideas.

    On the other hand, centralizing the Order too much can lead to stifling orthodoxy that's not healthy, of the sort we saw in the Clone Wars era with the Jedi heavily concentrated in the Coruscant Temple.

    I'd honestly prefer some sort of middle road. Something like half a dozen to a dozen significant installations seems about right?
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    I think spending the points on Personal Attention can cover the Dark risk. Schism and isolated splinter groups with odd ideas is a feature, not a bug. The Altisian Jedi, the Almas Academy, the Corellian Jedi, the Teepo Paladins, the Iron Knights...generally, where schism and isolated splinter groups occur, they tend to result in good and interesting groups that are fun to read about and generate different ideas and gather people towards the Jedi that otherwise might have fallen through the cracks or been turned off by a more rigorously-controlled group.
     
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