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There is no emotion... (A Jedi Order Quest)

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Barondoctor said:
I think spending the points on Personal Attention can cover the Dark risk. Schism and isolated splinter groups with odd ideas is a feature, not a bug. The Altisian Jedi, the Almas Academy, the Corellian Jedi, the Teepo Paladins, the Iron Knights...generally, where schism and isolated splinter groups occur, they tend to result in good and interesting groups that are fun to read about and generate different ideas and gather people towards the Jedi that otherwise might have fallen through the cracks or been turned off by a more rigorously-controlled group.
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Personal Attention doesn't prevent whole groups from going bad, it's more of a 'keep an eye on your apprentice' sort of thing, and it's just a reduction in odds even there. We could wind up with a Revan or other Dark splinter group that starts out with good intentions and gets lost along the way.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Personal Attention doesn't prevent whole groups from going bad, it's more of a 'keep an eye on your apprentice' sort of thing, and it's just a reduction in odds even there. We could wind up with a Revan or other Dark splinter group that starts out with good intentions and gets lost along the way.
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That's an interpretation. Adding the "secret back ways" perk to add vigilance would probably help with that, given that we'd be able to visit far-flung orders more easily and add that little sprinkling of oversight you're looking for.
 
Even if we were to assume no more Jedi schisms of the unfortunate sort happen (and the Jedi seem rather prone to them as it is) there's still the loss of organization. That means a lessened ability to deal with problems in an efficient manner. Take the Light side groups you mentioned. They don't work with the Jedi, instead wandering off to do their own thing; some can't stand the Jedi, even. Others are just so insular they're completely useless to anyone outside their home system, a tremendous waste.

Fracticiousness is not a great recipe for making the most out of a limited pool of Force sensitives. There are good reasons why organized endeavors of every kind (military, business, etc) tend to use centralized, hierarchical command models. When you're trying to get stuff done they're just more effective than everyone doing their own thing.

I'd prefer not to make a choice now that sets us up by design to constantly be losing groups of Jedi to splinter groups that we have to do lots of extra work to get any help out of. It's going to be hard enough rebuilding the Order and covering a galaxy's worth of bases as it stands. Let's not make it harder for ourselves with ideological drift.
 
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I'm looking at the options and I'm having a difficult time choosing what might be better: A Thousands Sparks or A Hundred Bonfires.

It's a very difficult decision that we don't have to do right now, but the choice here is important for the philosophy of the current generation and future generations. What do you think are the pros and cons to each of these options? What philosophy of these two did the Jedi Order usually takes? How could each decision could affect our order in the long run?

Sorry that I'm asking this, but I'm really interested about these two choices for Infrastructure.
 
Qudrim8054 said:
I'm looking at the options and I'm having a difficult time choosing what might be better: A Thousands Sparks or A Hundred Bonfires.

It's a very difficult decision that we don't have to do right now, but the choice here is important for the philosophy of the current generation and future generations. What do you think are the pros and cons to each of these options? What philosophy of these two did the Jedi Order usually takes? How could each decision could affect our order in the long run?

Sorry that I'm asking this, but I'm really interested about these two choices for Infrastructure.
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It is an interesting question. Your post did help me realize something I didn't before now; it's perfectly find for us to put it off for a while, if we can't decide now.
 
Either way, it won't be instantaneous. We're still building the foundation, so it's okay to focus on just a few planets (Ossus, Coruscant, etc) for now, even if we go the decentralized route later. And the faster we get Personal Attention the better. It feels very in-character anyways.
 
Qudrim8054 said:
I'm looking at the options and I'm having a difficult time choosing what might be better: A Thousands Sparks or A Hundred Bonfires.

It's a very difficult decision that we don't have to do right now, but the choice here is important for the philosophy of the current generation and future generations. What do you think are the pros and cons to each of these options? What philosophy of these two did the Jedi Order usually takes? How could each decision could affect our order in the long run?

Sorry that I'm asking this, but I'm really interested about these two choices for Infrastructure.
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Hundred Bonfires runs the minute but real risk of ending with you being forced to go Full Clone Wars Council, but also leaves you decisively in charge of the Jedi.
Thousand Sparks leaves Jedi independent enough to say "fuck you", but also, leaves Jedi independent enough to say "fuck you."
 
Okay, here's a compromise proposal for consideration. We're definitely going to want Masters' Trial so the points there are well spent. We can decide later which way we want to go with infrastructure, or even open up both tech trees to make a better informed decision then. I'm going with Nomi because she's the one I've heard the most support for in the thread so far, but I'm flexible.

In an alternative plan where we pick one of the infrastructure trees I'd put five points in that, use the bonus 5 we've got to finish it, and put 1 point in Masters' Trial.

[] Plan Put Off The Infrastructure Decision For Now
-Personal Attention: +19 Points to 20/20
-Masters' Trial: +6 Points to 6/20
-Holocron of Nomi Sunrider
 
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Okay, safe to vote now. Going with this for now, but open to further discussion.

[X] Plan Put Off The Infrastructure Decision For Now
-Personal Attention: +19 Points to 20/20
-Masters' Trial: +6 Points to 6/20
-Holocron of Nomi Sunrider
 
[X] Plan Put Off The Infrastructure Decision For Now
 
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[X] Plan Put Off The Infrastructure Decision For Now

While I'm all for going a hundred flames path with infrastructure cause we simply don't have the manpower to spread ourselves so thin I'm also fine with holding it off for now.
 
Poor Nomi, when someone asks for advice on rebuilding the Order she's going to be all, "I just put it back together and you broke it ALREADY?!"
 
So, I do want to propose an opposing plan, if only for variety, tho I'm torn on both the second thing we put 6 points into, and the holocron to study. If anyone has some opinions on their second choice out of Back Roads, Let's Just Be Friends, or The Weapon of the enemy, best speak now and speak quickly before I make up my mind.

Holocron, I'm torn between Nomi and Vodo-Siosk Baas.
 
The Englanderish said:
So, I do want to propose an opposing plan, if only for variety, tho I'm torn on both the second thing we put 6 points into, and the holocron to study. If anyone has some opinions on their second choice out of Back Roads, Let's Just Be Friends, or The Weapon of the enemy, best speak now and speak quickly before I make up my mind.

Holocron, I'm torn between Nomi and Vodo-Siosk Baas.
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Personally, I'd be interested in one of the two holocrons on our list who would know Tython's coordinates so we could maybe find it again. (Sar Agorn the historian, or Garon Jard the original founder of the Order on Tython.)

The old hyperspace path collapsed but a new one might be found if we put some effort into it and know where we're going. Tython is a strong force vergence, and it's also got a lot of Jedi-related ruins. Probably artifacts that were left behind in the evacuation, too.

Best of all, we'd be the only ones with the knowledge of how to get to it, so it's a perfect secret base. Nice and safe.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
Personally, I'd be interested in one of the two holocrons on our list who would know Tython's coordinates so we could maybe find it again. (Sar Agorn the historian, or Garon Jard the original founder of the Order on Tython.)
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ConfusedCanuck said:
[X] Plan Put Off The Infrastructure Decision For Now

While I'm all for going a hundred flames path with infrastructure cause we simply don't have the manpower to spread ourselves so thin I'm also fine with holding it off for now.
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They also increase how many people you can recruit. That is a thing to consider.
 
[X] Plan Put Off The Infrastructure Decision For Now

I can stand by putting it off for now. This is a big decision and requires a bit of debate
 
Voikirium said:
They also increase how many people you can recruit. That is a thing to consider.
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So what you might 'lose' in splinters that no longer answer to us on a day to day (although in the event of a crisis they might be able to be called back), you'd get back in additional recruits from additional reach?

We're NOT the Republic military. We shouldn't be trying to be the Republic military. Even the Republic's elite forces probably still outnumber us five to one at least, and always will.

We're superheroes. Do you want a hyperunified Justice League or a more spread out "West Coast Avengers, Regular Avengers, Heroes for Hire, Defenders" sort of thing?

The other thought on this: we've seen the Hundred Bonfires in canon. We haven't seen as much Thousand Sparks, so that's going to be more interesting, at least to me.

[X] Plan Put Off The Infrastructure Decision For Now
 
Barondoctor said:
So what you might 'lose' in splinters that no longer answer to us on a day to day (although in the event of a crisis they might be able to be called back), you'd get back in additional recruits from additional reach?

We're NOT the Republic military. We shouldn't be trying to be the Republic military. Even the Republic's elite forces probably still outnumber us five to one at least, and always will.

We're superheroes. Do you want a hyperunified Justice League or a more spread out "West Coast Avengers, Regular Avengers, Heroes for Hire, Defenders" sort of thing?

The other thought on this: we've seen the Hundred Bonfires in canon. We haven't seen as much Thousand Sparks, so that's going to be more interesting, at least to me.

[X] Plan Put Off The Infrastructure Decision For Now
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You'd present a united front as a single Jedi Order; however, the Coruscanti Council would be the Prima Inter Pares rather than undisputed chief swinging the big lightsaber.
 
I'm guessing the third that's been hinted at must be Odan-Urr, who founded the Jedi library on Ossus and was keeper of the antiquities for a few centuries during a time before Tython's coordinates were lost, or someone in the Holocron of the Unknown Jedi.

Edit: I do like the model of an Order that's united, but not hidebound in orthodoxy. Prima Inter Pares is a good way of putting it. Although I can think of some other interesting models, like a High Council that guides overall coordination made up of representatives sent from the local Councils of however many major installations we found, each of which has considerable autonomy in local policy.
 
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