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The Smallest of Dragons, The Loudest of Roars (An ASOIAF Valyrian Adventure Quest)

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Modus_Tollens said:
If Valyria was America, we would be Rhode Island. We are living gods compared to most commoners but we aren't going to be deciding national policy for a long, long time.

Whoever is Valyria's, say, California scares me pantsless.
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Going by that Analogy, which State do the Targaryens rank as? As far as I recall, they were never a major Player either until the Doom wiped out most of the Dragonlords.
 
Alexander Sturnn said:
Going by that Analogy, which State do the Targaryens rank as? As far as I recall, they were never a major Player either until the Doom wiped out most of the Dragonlords.
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Probably a bit better than Delaware but way less than Connecticut by the time they hit Dragonstone? They were minor to begin with and lost even more when they went into self-exile. Going to Westeros was considered a genuine crazy person move.

Though Delaware-to-Connecticut is more powerful towards the Doom than it would be in Ghiscari War times. Valyria was vast beyond any pre-modern real world empire then, at least in wealth and might, while right now we are a fairly hot and stony peninsula with a bunch of angry lizards that eat a lot. We don't even have slaves to work our mines.
 
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Speaking of Hot Penesula...If we are going for the Gischari War one lets see where Valyria stands as a Nation proper in that very timeframe.

(Note Map is from Atlas of Ice and Fire Wordpress and from the c 500s. But for Analysis sake its what I have.

Valyria is at a Geopolitical juncture, the Gischari empire and its influences are going to be gone, that is a foregone conclusion with Dragons and the likes of our PC. Valyria is going to be inheriting the future Slaver's Bay...the gulf of grief and near unbridled access to the entire eastern summer sea at launch. The other remaining superpowers on the continent are the Sarnor and their kingdom, and Rhyonar Princes and the Dothraki if they were ever a thing at the time.

We will be inheriting the Slave system and be using the empire's vast population to fuel our massive economy and diversify their industry.

We will need to keep in mind the logistical feats we will need to strengthen the Free Holds position, we're going to be hot shit, and likely the continent will "LIKE" us for dealing with a geopolitical rival and not going for them. But we need to manage our finances, gain power, and maybe invest in Volantas a safe thing to do.

Finally, trade, Trade TRADE and WAR is the NAME OF THE GAME in this time.

Trade for money, Trade for "Free Men or Slaves" and War to gain glory and power.
 
Modus_Tollens said:
Though Delaware-to-Connecticut is more powerful towards the Doom than it would be in Ghiscari War times. Valyria was vast beyond any pre-modern real world empire then, at least in wealth and might, while right now we are a fairly hot and stony peninsula with a bunch of angry lizards that eat a lot. We don't even have slaves to work our mines.
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While true, even in the Ghiscari war, we're powerful enough to be... decent enough.
Cyberphilosipher said:
Valyria is at a Geopolitical juncture, the Gischari empire and its influences are going to be gone, that is a foregone conclusion with Dragons and the likes of our PC. Valyria is going to be inheriting the future Slaver's Bay...the gulf of grief and near unbridled access to the entire eastern summer sea at launch. The other remaining superpowers on the continent are the Sarnor and their kingdom, and Rhyonar Princes and the Dothraki if they were ever a thing at the time.
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You are forgetting Qarth, which is a mercentile empire the likes of which wont be replaced by the Valyrians until they found the Modern day Free cities. Which is still a very long time off, even with Volantis and Pentos still growing.
Cyberphilosipher said:
We will be inheriting the Slave system and be using the empire's vast population to fuel our massive economy and diversify their industry.
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And start mining the fourteen flames that hold so much wealth that it can rival the lannisters.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Nenshou Yuuki on Nov 6, 2020 at 8:29 PM, finished with 78 posts and 29 votes.
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Cyberphilosipher said:
Snip.
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Trade can mean a great many things and so can war.

Sitting at the mouth of the Rhoyne and building ships so other men may journey far is trade, as is fostering a holding in what would become Qohor that sends lumber down the river to be milled and fashioned into ships. Or having a single tiny holding in a volcanic hell and making valyrian steel blades and armor and tools, selling individual models sometimes years apart but at a price that would beggar a fleet. Or being an artisan of blood magic, a flesh crafter, willing to perform... favors... for an appropriate degree of notice. Or being on board with other people's ventures and vendettas, Freehold or abroad, burning and bleeding for coin or opportunity.

Valyria would have been terrifying even if dragons had never existed and all a trader needs is to provide what others lack. Due to lack of opportunity, lack of interest or because they have their own calling that requires all their time and effort, because it is dangerous or unseemly.
 
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Modus_Tollens said:
Trade can mean a great many things and so can war.

Sitting at the mouth of the Rhoyne and building ships so other men may journey far is trade, as is fostering a holding in what would become Qohor that sends lumber down the river to be milled and fashioned into ships. Or having a single tiny holding in a volcanic hell and making valyrian steel blades and armor and tools, selling individual models sometimes years apart but at a price that would beggar a fleet. Or being an artisan of blood magic, a flesh crafter, willing to perform... favors... for an appropriate degree of notice. Or being on board with other people's ventures and vendettas, Freehold or abroad, burning and bleeding for coin or opportunity.

Valyria would have been terrifying even if dragons had never existed and all a trader needs is to provide what others lack. Due to lack of opportunity, lack of interest or because they have their own calling that requires all their time and effort, because it is dangerous or unseemly.
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THe thing is, Valyria, unlike our Ghiscari neighbors is on the up and up, an expansionist empire looking for new lands to conquor, people to trade with and money to be made, as well as exploiting the resources of their homeland for more wealth.

The other problem, if you chose the earliest start date...

Is Valyria can lose.

And I mean really lose.

You know the Carthege v Rome debates...

Well we could be the Carthege if we really screw up. Or turn Traitor... or the Harpies decide to go through a Drauger are training montage and yeet our dragons like they are methed up mad basterds.
 
[X]The Doom (102 BC): There are whispers that the Masters of the Freehold is trying to do something… Something terrible. You did not know what it was… But all you saw as you flew away… There was no time. There was only fear. And as the Fourteen Flames Exploded… there was only one thought on your mind. "Doom"

The most interesting time for me. It's also the time period when a single dragon can mean everything.
 
[X]The Doom (102 BC): There are whispers that the Masters of the Freehold is trying to do something… Something terrible. You did not know what it was… But all you saw as you flew away… There was no time. There was only fear. And as the Fourteen Flames Exploded… there was only one thought on your mind. "Doom"
 
[X]The Doom (102 BC): There are whispers that the Masters of the Freehold is trying to do something… Something terrible. You did not know what it was… But all you saw as you flew away… There was no time. There was only fear. And as the Fourteen Flames Exploded… there was only one thought on your mind. "Doom"
 
Anyone have any more questions about things, like politics, or dragon stuff?
 
[X]The Final Ghiscari War (2000 BC): The final great conflict of Valyrian and Ghis is at hand. The Slavers of The Ghiscari empire have finally forgotten their place among the states of the world, and have… forgotten that it is Valyria that rules this world… That Dragons' are greater than the Harpies.
 
Magoose said:
Dragons are the only ones who exist in Valyria... so sorry, but no.
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In a very narrow definition of Valyria. I know there are firewyrms in the Fourteen Flames, though we don't do all that much up there due to the lack of expendable slaves. And we own Zamettar, the main trade hub of Sothoryos proper. Wyverns are there.

I can easily see it being a 'not at character creation' thing. We would need to go through a lot of pain to get something slightly substandard and batshit insane.
Magoose said:
Anyone have any more questions about things, like politics, or dragon stuff?
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A few topics at least, especially if we go with the Ghiscari Wars period. The main thing is that we don't really have much canon material.

One is just how government is going to be represented. We are a weird oligarchy where all freeholders have a say but with the bulk of that granted to the Forty. Some city states have appointed dictators or councils, others are ruled by resident freeholders directly. How do we collectively make decisions and are we bound by law or merely tradition?

Stewardship is also going to be tricky because we are non-feudal and will often coexist in the same city with many different Dragonlords. We own interests more than we own land, though there might be some sort of generalized tax that is for Freehold level actions. Are we going to be, say, investing some number of hypothetical development points in a shipyard or some other mechanism?
 
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@Magoose if we start at the Doom of Valyria is it guaranteed the PC will survive the doom, or will the players be taking a risk of near certain death at the start of the quest if that option is chosen?
 
[X]The Final Ghiscari War (2000 BC): The final great conflict of Valyrian and Ghis is at hand. The Slavers of The Ghiscari empire have finally forgotten their place among the states of the world, and have… forgotten that it is Valyria that rules this world… That Dragons' are greater than the Harpies.
 
[X]The Doom (102 BC): There are whispers that the Masters of the Freehold is trying to do something… Something terrible. You did not know what it was… But all you saw as you flew away… There was no time. There was only fear. And as the Fourteen Flames Exploded… there was only one thought on your mind. "Doom"
 
Modus_Tollens said:
In a very narrow definition of Valyria. I know there are firewyrms in the Fourteen Flames, though we don't do all that much up there due to the lack of expendable slaves. And we own Zamettar, the main trade hub of Sothoryos proper. Wyverns are there.

I can easily see it being a 'not at character creation' thing. We would need to go through a lot of pain to get something slightly substandard and batshit insane.
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Yeah, that's what i mean.
Modus_Tollens said:
One is just how government is going to be represented. We are a weird oligarchy where all freeholders have a say but with the bulk of that granted to the Forty. Some city-states have appointed dictators or councils, others are ruled by resident freeholders directly. How do we collectively make decisions and are we bound by law or merely tradition?
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Usually, the Decisions are brought forward to the Freehold council and are voted on, kinda like the roman republic, where decisions are made into law, and the citizens of the freehold are bound by it and must obey the law, or suffer the consequences.

Though the Forty Families are so powerful that they can all but ignore those laws for the most part with little consequence... unless those laws directly state their family in it.
Modus_Tollens said:
Stewardship is also going to be tricky because we are non-feudal and will often coexist in the same city with many different Dragonlords. We own interests more than we own land, though there might be some sort of generalized tax that is for Freehold level actions. Are we going to be, say, investing some number of hypothetical development points in a shipyard or some other mechanism?
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You are paid from the States Coffers based on a percentage of wealth paid into it every year. The more you pay in, the more you get as a percentage after that.

That is a privilege only a member of the 40 families have, and no one else.

Your private wealth is something you can grow with that wealth you are paid to buy property, advance your own interests like building navel dockyards, building mines, etc.
Marlin said:
@Magoose if we start at the Doom of Valyria is it guaranteed the PC will survive the doom, or will the players be taking a risk of near certain death at the start of the quest if that option is chosen?
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You will survive the doom if that start date is chosen.
 
[X]The Western Expansion (1500 BC): The Great Wars of the East are now over. The slavers of Slaver's bay are destroyed, grounded under the claws of our Great Dragons. Our cities boom from gold and Silver from the mountains of the 14 Flames, with slaves extracting the riches for us… as we gaze westwards… To the RiverRhoynar, and the coast of the Narrow Sea… and a continent called, Westeros.
 
[X]The Doom (102 BC): There are whispers that the Masters of the Freehold is trying to do something… Something terrible. You did not know what it was… But all you saw as you flew away… There was no time. There was only fear. And as the Fourteen Flames Exploded… there was only one thought on your mind. "Doom"
 
[X]The Final Ghiscari War (2000 BC): The final great conflict of Valyrian and Ghis is at hand. The Slavers of The Ghiscari empire have finally forgotten their place among the states of the world, and have… forgotten that it is Valyria that rules this world… That Dragons' are greater than the Harpies.
 
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