But it happend in Naruto, with no real consequences. Including hundreds of people at once, and someone decades dead. And more. Also a hundred edo tensei simultaneously with no consequence of that sort.

The only thing we have a vague hint of is that long term Edo tensei may be bad, and thats one vague line (and i dont think anyone is trying for that either).
Alright, I'll correct myself.

In the hands of a competent writer true resurrection would have consequences of it's own outside anything inherent to the method. :p
 
Can I get a cite on this? To my knowledge, the only example of summoning without a contract in canon was Jiraiya, and it was called out as reckless and not having been done before. Where was "it gives the best personality match" stated?

Pervasive fanon, I believe.

Yeah, in retrospect I think it's just fanon. OTOH there has to be something that determines which land the reverse summoner ends up in, it being totally random would just be dull. It being determined by reflecting certain characteristics of the person attempting it seems reasonable.

Kin hated her bed. It was soft, far softer than any bed she'd had before. Better than the street she grew up on, better than the bunks everyone slept on in Otokagure, even better than the ambassadorial quarters she'd been in the past few weeks. The sheets weren't silk, but they were close enough. It was the kind of bed a younger her would have fantasized about sleeping in.

Now all it felt like was a traitor's bed.

Traitor. The word itself caused her stomach to churn, because that was what she was. A traitor. Pathetic scum. That was all she was. All she had left were her failures, whispering in her ear that she was too weak, too worthless. A task she was set up to fail, that she hadn't been good enough to succeed anyway. The smug half-grin on the clan kids face as he explained how he was better than her. She was pathetic excuse for a kunoichi, worthless...weak.

The room didn't help. It was well-furnished besides the bed. A television, the couch she now sat on, a nice wooden coffee-table in between, they were all there. A painting here and there, decorative plants, all to give the image of wealth and culture. No windows of course, couldn't have that, and the door was metal and guarded. The scarred man she 'd been put in here by, after...that night, had said something. She hadn't listened; the purpose of the room was totally clear. It was a room for traitors.

Traitors earned death by existing.

Welp Kin has some pretty major issues here. Not surprising at all, but still.

They're from Leaf a part of her argued, they're the enemy. That part of her was growing quieter and quieter. Now she just wondered what they wanted with someone like her. Even if they were a weak village full of sentimental fools. Even they had to have standards.

Don't you worry Kin, Leaf'll help fix up those self-worth issues lickety-split.

A woman had come, with blond hair and eyes without pupils, and the aching pain of her memories had faded. The woman had given her a strange look when they returned. She hadn't been killed, so she could only assume they hadn't found anything worth killing.

Yamanakas must make actually pretty good psychologists, when they're not busy being incredibly creepy and ethically suspect working for Interrogation and Torture.

Hiruzen Sarutobi, the Sandaime Hokage, one of three men ever to earn the title God of Shinobi. One of the greatest shinobi to ever live, a towering legend and the leader of Konoha through three Great Wars. A doddering old fool whose sense of mercy and naivety had infested the whole of Konoha.

What did someone like him want with someone like her.

Yeah, actual leader of the village visiting random genin-traitor must be completely out of left field for her. But Oro-chan is kind of a personal issue for sarutobi.

"What am I doing here?" He stroked the gray hair coating his chin, a soft twinkle in his eyes. "Well, I thought I'd come and visit the person who is causing so many reports to appear on my desk. There's something to be said for reports, but nothing beats meeting the subject of them for yourself yes?"

Kin has no idea how valuable all the stuff she knows is. It might not seem significant to her, but all the banal info about the location and layout of Sound is actually hella useful to ANBU.

"You've done more than you know, talking about one of our most famous missing-nins and his...organization."

"Organization? But Otokagure is-"

"A village? Oh, I think you'll find me and my erstwhile student have much different ideas of what constitutes a village. He understood many things, but never that." Kin didn't know a smile could get that bitter. "Never that."

I mean, part of it is that Oro-chan was never really trying to make a actual for-real village, so much as a resource network and a way of trying to make Leaf look bad and embarrass Sarutobi personally.

And so Kin began to talk. About Sound and traitors and failures, and what the former did to the latter. About how they had found her on the street and took her away from that wretched life to give her purpose. Stripped away all the weakness they could, until she felt strong, until she felt powerful. How it was all a lie, she was weak, too pathetic to prove she wasn't expandable. How she wanted to live even when she deserved to die.

Yeah, kind of just the surface details of a Village with none of the actual real structure. Which is fine if all you care about is mocking a village you loathe, but not great for creating psychologically healthy people. Like promising to give people value, but not getting them to have value in and of themselves and instead basing it precariously on the sand of proving themselves.

Good interlude, glad I voted for it. Kind of wanted to see Sakura interlude as well, but what can you do?

Sorry end game is Temari. First girl is best waifu.

It's going to be a long romance I feel, mostly friendly rivalry for a couple years coupled with friendly coffee/shopping dates.

Well the canon ship is Tenten x Weapons, so...can we turn Kin into weapon? Or rather, can she turn herself into a weapon, Monkey King style?

TentenXWeapons does rather mean she's easy to buy gifts for. Not that she doesn't appreciate other things, but it does mean you've pretty much always got a safe fallback option.

You do know it's possible to give someone love and support and not be in a physical relationship with them right?

This sounds completely implausible and nonsense :p

-Orochimaru is wasteful as fuck.
Team Dosu would probably be their village's generation's elite in 3-10 years, once they got the arrogance beat out of them and received some seasoning.
And dude just expended them like matches.
He isn't as wasteful as Danzo mind, but that's damning with faint praise.

He didn't bother to do due dilligence on his genin, and in canon, he'd have used this girl as a spell reagent for Edo Tensei.
We can make better use of her.

That's...basically because Oro-chan doesn't really care about producing strong ninja? He doesn't have the same aims as the villages, his only real long-term goals are to develop jutsu and occasionally to fuck with Leaf. Unlike many of the series major villains in the series he doesn't have any grand vision of the future, he doesn't want to rule or control the world, indeed he'd probably find the idea both dull and stifling. He runs to the Chaos side of the Spectrum to Pain's Order. He seems to generally build Ad-Hoc structures and powerbases to help with short to mid term goals, but that's kind of it. He built Sound, sure, but he isn't really invested in the idea of it.

Between recent events and residual trauma, she's pretty much broken down psychologically. Build her back up, and she'll be one of the more loyal agents you'll get. Might give her to Mitarashi, who has the background to understand where she is coming from, but not insult her by treating her with kid gloves.

Thinking about it Anko would be an excellent person for her to talk to, yeah. She'd Get It.

Personally, I'd much prefer not to end up in a relationship with Kin. Because if we did, there are some rather serious issues that would have to be worked out.

Yeah, don't prey on the psychologically vulnerable. Being a relatively low-key friend would probs be best for her, just offer her a safe source of support she can look to without becoming dependent on. Girl needs to build herself back up.

Goddamn this shit is why I fucking hate playing female PCs. Is it really so damn hard for female PC to be straight and have her female friends just be female friends?

I can't speak to Quests having a noticeable overabundance of this, because I only follow a relative handful. On an entirely personal level though I appreciate it to an extent, both because I'm a lesbian myself and I appreciate it more, and also because outside of this site it's freaking hard to find any media which actually caters to that.

It's a very dumb idea, that while functions sorta similar to how it works in the Anime verse is insanely dangerous. Because most summon animals either live in climates inhospitable to humans (fish et. al.), are not friendly (snakes) or both (sharks). Most people who try it don't come back.

It might be super dumb and risky, sure, but it's also hella rad and interesting.

Well, Rinne Tensei is true Resurrection, as is the Kishō Tensei (but that's a 1 for 1 trade). In Naruto, there's really no point where you couldn't conceivably bring someone back provided you have sufficiently powerful techniques (and you were also willing to probably die in the attempt).

Rinne Tensei called back people from the crossroads, so only worked on the very recently dead. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume Kisho Tensei had the same requirement. (Though Edo Tensei does whatever the fuck it wants.)

In exalted, the problem is different. There, by the fundamental mechanics of the universe, something is either alive or dead/undead, and truly reversing it is likely impossible without tearing up all creation

There's the thing, in Creation it has major issues due to the way Creation is actually built and structured. Here? Who knows. Is there even a Lethe here? No freaking clue. Re-incarnation is defs a thing, so there's something but we don't know what. @Crilltic specifically mentioned Tenten is the only thing with Essence around at the moment, so stuff is very weird.

Unlikely that we could get both the abilities needed to kill immortals and the power to challenge gaara together by the third round.

In theory, exalts should very much be capable of killing bijuu. However, there may both be problems and consequences.

I'd say the Bijuu would be completely unkillable by normal means, what with them being fundamental fractions of the Chakra Fruit, which is an Important Thing. That said, that's by mundane means. Probably there's some Solar abilities that could do it, which would fuck over Black Zetsu's plans p heavily.

However, they may be metaphysically important in other ways. so prepare for unintended consequences as well.

That, yeah.

I have no idea what lore does, but I'm excited anyways!

I love your decision making process.

And here is the (not as helpful) description in the Exalted Core rulebook:

Well probably a good idea to get beyond the point of being oblivious to general knowledge to the point of knowing p much nothing more than being able to name the other elemental nations :p

Lore pretty important if you don't want to look like a sheltered or oblivious idiot.

Oh yeah, just to make things clear. This was the winning plan:

I really don't know enough about general Exalted mechanics or Solars to know what's important, so I shall just trust that people who do are making Good Decisions.

Negi: You are within the range of my divination.
Tenten: You've been in range of my divination for a week now.

Make it happen.

Yessss.

Making destiny jokes to Neji is basically the reason Tenten got into fortune telling.

I love this so much.

Change of plans, we must acquire a full three dot-specialty in fortune-telling as soon as possible. I don't care if it doesn't have any practical applications at all, it's vitally important for Plan: Mess with Neji.

It's what true friends do. Eventually he'll get over the whole Destiny thing, even if only to get Tenten to stop taking the piss out of him.

If by "predict the future" you mean, "Crilltic gives you vague prophecies to fuck with you" maybe.

Or things like continually drawing the Fool card after she sees Naruto.

It'd make for a decent background joke.
 
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Alright, I'll correct myself.

In the hands of a competent writer true resurrection would have consequences of it's own outside anything inherent to the method. :p
Except for sociopolitical ones, based on such a procedure being available (assuming it is economically viable)... what other consequences would there need to be?
 
I can't speak to Quests having a noticeable overabundance of this, because I only follow a relative handful. On an entirely personal level though I appreciate it to an extent, both because I'm a lesbian myself and I appreciate it more, and also because outside of this site it's freaking hard to find any media which actually caters to that.
...I honestly find it hard to believe that one would have a hard time finding a site pandering to gays considering how big the world and internet is. I have been to sites that had add pandering Yaoi on stories that weren't even aimed at gays. There is literally an entire genre dedicated to lesbians called Yuri. That and having access to the internet seems like it would literally take minutes at most to find a site or stories pandering to gays both male and female.
 
While I really appreciate this a lot, it is board policy to spoiler large spaghetti commentary like this to make it easier on phone users (you're not in trouble or anything, just something to keep in mind for the future).
Yeah, in retrospect I think it's just fanon. OTOH there has to be something that determines which land the reverse summoner ends up in, it being totally random would just be dull. It being determined by reflecting certain characteristics of the person attempting it seems reasonable.
Oh yeah, if you're wondering where it comes from, it's an anime filler episode about Jiraiya
...I honestly find it hard to believe that one would have a hard time finding a site pandering to gays considering how big the world and internet is. I have been to sites that had add pandering Yaoi on stories that weren't even aimed at gays. There is literally an entire genre dedicated to lesbians called Yuri. That and having access to the internet seems like it would literally take minutes at most to find a site or stories pandering to gays both male and female.
Let's not bring this argument up again k?
 
Rinne Tensei called back people from the crossroads, so only worked on the very recently dead. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume Kisho Tensei had the same requirement. (Though Edo Tensei does whatever the fuck it wants.)
Rinne Tensei can work on the longer dead, given that Madara had that planned and was suprised that he had been edo tenseid first.

But then, Rinne must target a body (necessary condition unknown) so most longer dead may fail that way. (Although after what pain did, many bodies in Konoha would not have been intact).

Also, it was madara, who both intended to (and prepared to) be ressurrected, and was special in a dozen other ways, so who knows.
 
Sorry no shipping and tenten is straight.

I only ship because the idea of Tenten and increasingly exasperated Temari amuses me.

And @Crilltic didn't say Tenten was straight, all he said that going in the only canonical ship is Tenten X Weapons. Which we know and approve of. Anything beyond that is vague and mumble mumble

While I really appreciate this a lot, it is board policy to spoiler large spaghetti commentary like this to make it easier on phone users (you're not in trouble or anything, just something to keep in mind for the future).

Forgot about that policy update, and I'll chuck in a spoiler now, no problem.
 
Except for sociopolitical ones, based on such a procedure being available (assuming it is economically viable)... what other consequences would there need to be?

Well, the sociopolitical ones are what I was talking about. Also maybe resource limitations if the technique got into the wrong hands or started getting widespread.
 
True, but I was more implying that True resurrection could have consequences of it's own, even outside anything inherent to the method.
But it happend in Naruto, with no real consequences. Including hundreds of people at once, and someone decades dead. And more. Also a hundred edo tensei simultaneously with no consequence of that sort.
The only thing we have a vague hint of is that long term Edo tensei may be bad, and thats one vague line (and i dont think anyone is trying for that either).
Wait, do you think it's a coincidence that every single person who used Edo Tensei in canon lost?
Consider that even sociopaths like Danzo left it alone.
 
Wait, do you think it's a coincidence that every single person who used Edo Tensei in canon lost?
Consider that even sociopaths like Danzo left it alone.
We know little of Tobiramas use of it.

Orochimaru... didnt fully lose the first time. Sure his arms were crippled, but Sarutobi dies while he survived, despite having a suicide technique used on him.

Kabuto.... lost, against uchiha bullshit, and arguably found a happy ending from it.

Orochimaru, again... may have saved the world with reincarnating the hokage, and got a close to happy ending (Forgiven (or at least not executed) for the past, however tenous, transferred into an ageless body with mokuton... Thats a win for him, i think).


SO this is not quite true, and waaay vague speculation.
 
We know little of Tobiramas use of it.
True.
Orochimaru... didnt fully lose the first time. Sure his arms were crippled, but Sarutobi dies while he survived, despite having a suicide technique used on him.
He lost the use of his arms. He lost the use of his jutsu.
He lost the invasion of Konoha, despite bringing at least one giant summon, and a trained jinchuuriki, and the forces of two villages.

He was forced to prematurely transfer into a makeshift body, costing him the opportunity at possessing a 13 year old Sasuke when he was actually vulnerable; by the time the opportunity came round again, Sasuke was strong enough to kill him.
He was reduced to suffering regular pain over the next two and half years.

So no, I'd say that he lost pretty comprehensively.
Kabuto.... lost, against uchiha bullshit, and arguably found a happy ending from it.
Kabuto showed up with a literal who's who of the Elemental Nations.
And got trounced so hard that he was a sword slash away from death; he lived because Sauce and the rest literally had better things to do.

Even Madara, whose only use of ET was to cancel his being dispelled, managed to get backstabbed by Zetsu at the very height of his power.
SO this is not quite true, and waaay vague speculation.
Speculation? Sure.
But it fits the facts that we see on-screen, and Sarutobi's vague warning, and Danzo's surprising reticence.
ET is bad juju.


:V
 
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