Quick note but we can actually still adhere to the Ares conventions while also still being able to use our ships to support our ground forces. Just bring our ships into atmosphere. After all our ships can hover in atmosphere and because they're in atmosphere it's not orbital bombardment when they support ground forces because the ships are not in orbit.

Edit: autocorrect fixes because I wrote this on my phone.
 
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Should we just roll out an updated Geneva convention, add provisions making succsikn wars bullshit and typical great house shitbaggery war crimes then have the ORDI sign it? We can then use that as leverage against Morgan in the post war propaganda fight.

We can also do a new Universial Decleration of Human rights.
 
Should we just roll out an updated Geneva convention, add provisions making succsikn wars bullshit and typical great house shitbaggery war crimes then have the ORDI sign it? We can then use that as leverage against Morgan in the post war propaganda fight.

We can also do a new Universial Decleration of Human rights.
If that works, it'd be incredibly effective. But there's two things that'd have to be overcome, or at least necessary to make the PR strike hit. One, the Capellans and Taurians have to both be seen putting the sword down. When people talk about the Ares Convention being toothless, it's about the Cappies not giving a shit what people think and the Taurians being more defensive-nuke-happy than Belka. If these two can at least do a bit of performative deescalation, then we have proof the Periphery is committed to making a newer, fairer law and order in the galaxy.

The real question will be getting Comstar to back it.

Comstar isn't just the economic regulator or wetwork manipulators. They organize the wars. Every mercenary outfit worth a damn has to be signed off on by Comstar. Because Comstar runs the Mercenary Review Board and grades them on mission effectiveness, unit capability, and whether it abides by, yes, the Ares Conventions as interpreted by the Board. It can't be overstated just how much infrastructure and resources have been invested in by Comstar in keeping this centuries-long squabble going on as a control mechanism. Updating the Geneva Convention and a UDHR can give them some new teeth to keep a humbled and scared House Lord in line, but only if they think the new system gives them more control than the old one.

If we get Comstar on our side, that solves alot of problems. If we want Comstar out of the picture, we need to be ready to fight everyone.
 
Mad Myando gives us a opening for this to get Comstar on board. By signing on to the idea Comstar put the word of Blake into a postion where they have to push against the combine or be made to look like morally bankrupt cowards after comstar signs on and the WoB refuses to sign or refuses to honor their signing.
 
I mean, the warships still have a massive use case that you have ignored every time you bring this up to argue your pet headcanon: they are fucking king of interdiction. They can smash apart a dropship force with incredible, phenomenal ease, they can capture jumpships, they can cut an interstellar polity to pieces and leave them unable to seize the strategic initiative, or move forces and provisions, even without orbital bombardment. You are even fucking ignoring the fact that the Successor States canonically spent this entire era trying to rebuild warship forces.

Forget new Geneva Conventions, we do not have the diplomatic capital for that. Sticking to the Ares Conventions costs us nothing and contrary to your continued bad faith assertions, they do not nullify the advantage warships give us.
 
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I mean, the warships still have a massive use case that you have ignored every time you bring this up to argue your pet headcanon: they are fucking king of interdiction. They can smash apart a dropship force with incredible, phenomenal ease, they can capture jumpships, they can cut an interstellar polity to pieces and leave them unable to seize the strategic initiative, or move forces and provisions, even without orbital bombardment.
Quoted for truth. And it's even more true if you take into account that our warships have warp drives, while our enemies still rely on jump- and dropships to transport their forces.

This is the key to winning a war against the Mandate and FedSuns without ever invading more than a fraction of their worlds. Put suitable bait somewhere the enemy can't ignore it or threaten something they can't afford not to defend. Wait for the inevitable enemy reinforcements. And then... surprise Noctis warping in from interstellar space, followed by countless enemy regiments being destroyed or forced to surrender without ever getting to leave their transports.
 
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I mean, the warships still have a massive use case that you have ignored every time you bring this up to argue your pet headcanon: they are fucking king of interdiction. They can smash apart a dropship force with incredible, phenomenal ease, they can capture jumpships, they can cut an interstellar polity to pieces and leave them unable to seize the strategic initiative, or move forces and provisions, even without orbital bombardment. You are even fucking ignoring the fact that the Successor States canonically spent this entire era trying to rebuild warship forces.
Sure, the Successor States don't have the stellar infrastructure to contest an Unrestricted Submarine Warfare campaign. And our shield technology make the standard anti-Warship tactics of ballistic nuke-spam unviable for a time. But there's one small problem: You're not cosplaying Admiral Dornitz. You're The Mighty Eight.

It's one thing to cripple tactical or operational movements of a military, but to bring an interstellar nation to its knees, you have to shred their economy. You have to hit everything. Warp drives make strategic movement easier, but every ship that sneaks through, that finds a way through to civilian population or military commands mean those pissed-off people starving in the streets and impotently angry soldiers in defensive positions have more means to do something about it.

Can you say we have the naval numbers to destroy the Mandate's entire civil and military logistics? How about the Feddies in the Outback? Or the Suns as a whole?

I'm asking what the practical scale of your "I Win" button is. Because we have two distinct but interconnected wars to fight.
 
This is the key to winning a war against the Mandate and FedSuns without ever invading more than a fraction of their worlds. Put suitable bait somewhere the enemy can't ignore it or threaten something they can't afford not to defend. Wait for the inevitable enemy reinforcements. And then... surprise Noctis warping in from interstellar space, followed by countless enemy regiments being destroyed or forced to surrender without ever getting to leave their transports.
This is what I hope to cause by attacking Cavalor. As besides it being a good beachhead it's also a good trap. Hopefully the forces stationed at Sunnywood and Midthun will take the bait. If not well that I think it's smart to keep ships garrisoned at Ward, Hurik, Ichlangis and maybe Zangul.

I'm asking what the practical scale of your "I Win" button is. Because we have two distinct but interconnected wars to fight.
This is the reason why we need to knock out the Mandate as fast as possible. And we don't have to do everything. The Mandate basically has a revolution on their hands if we can damage the Mandates forces enough we give the rebels a true fighting chance. And hopefully if we take the capital we can force the remaining loyalist forces to surrender or switch sides.

It's not going to be easy but we will not be alone in this fight after all we have our ORDI Allies I expect at least the Capellans and Aurigans to send forces in. And maybe we will also get some Canopian troops too.

The Taurians are better of staying out of it to keep there forces intact for the Feds.

Edit: Also I think it's smart to spend the majority of our AP next turn further building up our military. At least we should build another MAWLR pack, a Rohk squadron to transport them, build more mechs and maybe raise another army to have one in reserve if we ever need it.
 
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Sure, the Successor States don't have the stellar infrastructure to contest an Unrestricted Submarine Warfare campaign. And our shield technology make the standard anti-Warship tactics of ballistic nuke-spam unviable for a time. But there's one small problem: You're not cosplaying Admiral Dornitz. You're The Mighty Eight.

It's one thing to cripple tactical or operational movements of a military, but to bring an interstellar nation to its knees, you have to shred their economy. You have to hit everything. Warp drives make strategic movement easier, but every ship that sneaks through, that finds a way through to civilian population or military commands mean those pissed-off people starving in the streets and impotently angry soldiers in defensive positions have more means to do something about it.

Can you say we have the naval numbers to destroy the Mandate's entire civil and military logistics? How about the Feddies in the Outback? Or the Suns as a whole?

I'm asking what the practical scale of your "I Win" button is. Because we have two distinct but interconnected wars to fight.
And you're still ignoring how:
A) Those trickles leaking through might let them fight a little bit, it sure isn't letting them fight well
B) This isn't a fucking submarine campaign anymore, it's a straightup surface blockade like Britain did to Germany in WW1: we're not Dönitz, we're Chester Nimitz, it's 1945, and we're running along the Japanese coast with our dicks out and there's nothing the enemy can do
C) That is already crippling their ability to make large scale offensives or strategic retreats, even with just a single frigate squadron, even as ORDI forces can reposition at their leisure, can concentrate force with confidence that the enemy cannot do the same
D) The overwhelming majority of logistics are jumpship logistics, IE, single jump point, weeklong charge, jumpships, that can be captured incredibly easily just by jumping in a Noctis and escorts, blowing their escorting dropships to kingdom come, and the jumpship captains are completely helpless

Please understand just what the compounding affects of such an interdiction imply, one of which is first and foremost, the blockading force can concentrate forces to their leisure, while the defender cannot reinforce nor can the defender move to exploit holes left by enemy movements. The Helghans and Taurians have warpships, and advanced warpships at that; this means that warships can be positioned nodally and centrally and rapidly shift across the front to any given emergence point in the time it takes for a jumpship fleet to emerge, have their dropships unload and begin to burn for the planet, and recharge their jumpdrives.

No one's calling it an I win button, it's just a critical strategic advantage that you seem to think only exists to fight other warships and do orbital bombardments, when again, these are warpships with Improved Warpdrives.

To repeat: we're not the fucking u-boat force in 1942, that's a stupid analogy, we are TF38 and we're partying like it's 1945.
 
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To completely agree with Genolution here we have a total of 56 warships free against a polity with 58 systems. We damn near could post a warship in every system and blockade at least one jump point, by ourselves. So we absolutely could, especially with the the help of our allies blockade these heavily defended worlds and wipe out any military force the strays to far from a civilian population. All while supplying rebel forces since you know we would have complete or near complete orbital supremacy over the planet.

And just for the record since it's honestly getting annoying the Ares Conventions aren't enforced any more by anyone and haven't been for over 200 years which is 6 times as long as they were actually relevant. And since I doubt our military is going to follow orders to start indiscriminate orbital bombardment of civilian populations, the only parts of the Ares Conventions that anyone even really pays lip service to aren't a issue even if it was relevant.
 
It's one thing to cripple tactical or operational movements of a military, but to bring an interstellar nation to its knees, you have to shred their economy. You have to hit everything. Warp drives make strategic movement easier, but every ship that sneaks through, that finds a way through to civilian population or military commands mean those pissed-off people starving in the streets and impotently angry soldiers in defensive positions have more means to do something about it.

Can you say we have the naval numbers to destroy the Mandate's entire civil and military logistics? How about the Feddies in the Outback? Or the Suns as a whole?
I would still prefer to avoid war altogether. But if it happens, there's no point to not using our navy to its full potential.

You say we have to hit everything, but I don't see the facts backing that up. There are populated worlds, and then there are important worlds. The latter aren't actually that numerous.

If we must fight, let's not fight like a successor state, fighting meaningless battles over marginal borderworlds. Identify the enemy's key assets - worlds with centers of government, shipyards, large factory-complexes - and go straight for the throat. The goal is to force a surrender, not to destroy every last enemy garrison unit.
 
I would still prefer to avoid war altogether. But if it happens, there's no point to not using our navy to its full potential.

You say we have to hit everything, but I don't see the facts backing that up. There are populated worlds, and then there are important worlds. The latter aren't actually that numerous.

If we must fight, let's not fight like a successor state, fighting meaningless battles over marginal borderworlds. Identify the enemy's key assets - worlds with centers of government, shipyards, large factory-complexes - and go straight for the throat. The goal is to force a surrender, not to destroy every last enemy garrison unit.
Though hunting down every federal military unit would be a good war goal. If we can wipe/confiscate the hardware of say 20% of their federal forces it will take them generations to recover.
 
Though hunting down every federal military unit would be a good war goal. If we can wipe/confiscate the hardware of say 20% of their federal forces it will take them generations to recover.
we're going to have to likely dig them all out at this point if only to ensure we can account for every WMD they have stockpiled. The last thing we need is some nutter squirreling away a nuke or rigging up a dead man's implant to a bioweapon and holding a world hostage.
 
With the way our turns go I expect we'll stomp the Mandate militarily...and then our butterfingers intel agency will miss a nuke or two slipping through our cordon and we'll have at least one nuclear aftermath to deal with.
 
You mean one nuclear aftermath for the capelians to deal with
Ironically enough, this would force the Capellans to de-escalate to focus on reconstructing the former Mandate worlds and re-integrating them into Capella society, except for the border forces they have stationed between the Feds and the League.

So, in short, we might have a chance of updating this world's Geneva convention, especially when the Draks get invaded by the Clans in the near-future.
 
So, in short, we might have a chance of updating this world's Geneva convention, especially when the Draks get invaded by the Clans in the near-future.
Your making a lot of assumptions about the Ares conventions here , a lot of people in thread are , they are not the world's equivalent to the Geneva convention , the Geneva conventions were made to discourage war to make it more difficult and less preferable option to peace first and foremost , the Ares conventions were made instead to regulate war and police war to make it into a blood sport between nations, to make war into a perfectly legitimate means by which nations can settle their disputes by force of arms , the Ares conventions made war diplomacy by any other means
 
Ironically enough, this would force the Capellans to de-escalate to focus on reconstructing the former Mandate worlds and re-integrating them into Capella society, except for the border forces they have stationed between the Feds and the League.
I have said this before and I will say it again. We must not allow all of the Mandate to be completely re-intergraded into Capellan Confederation. It would completely destabilize the balance of power within ORDI. But to be clear I am not opposed to some Mandate worlds rejoining the Capellans. Just not all of them.

I want to try instead to reform most the Mandate into a ORDI friendly state. And it's also likely some world will either want join us or one of the other ORDI members.
 
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Your making a lot of assumptions about the Ares conventions here , a lot of people in thread are , they are not the world's equivalent to the Geneva convention , the Geneva conventions were made to discourage war to make it more difficult and less preferable option to peace first and foremost , the Ares conventions were made instead to regulate war and police war to make it into a blood sport between nations, to make war into a perfectly legitimate means by which nations can settle their disputes by force of arms , the Ares conventions made war diplomacy by any other means
No they were made in a attempt to regulate and discourage war, they just failed utterly and ended up legitimising it as a way to solve disputes of any kind.
 
I have said this before and I will say it again. We must not allow all of the Mandate to be completely re-intergraded into Capellan Confederation. It would completely destabilize the balance of power within ORDI. But to be clear I am not opposed to some Mandate worlds rejoining the Capellans. Just not all of them.

I want to try instead to reform most the Mandate into a ORDI friendly state. And it's also likely some world will either want join us or one of the other ORDI members.
Oh, I concur. It's just that the Capellans would demand a lot if they were to contribute the most to the upcoming war.

Instead, I suggest we should be the ones to contribute the most by saying that we're the ones that did most of the hard work, therefore, having the ability to give the planets to whoever wants it to or form a new nation around it.
 
No they were made in a attempt to regulate and discourage war, they just failed utterly and ended up legitimising it as a way to solve disputes of any kind.
No actually , the conventions were made to deal with the risk of unrestricted strategic warfare since before then warfighting abilities began and ended with how many warships you can deploy and how many nukes you could fit into them , the only kind of war the conventions set out to oppose was unrestricted strategic warfare(the kind involving nuking everything and planting a flag over the ashes) , they regulated normal warfare and even allowed for restricted strategic warfare(set out conditions were nukes were allowed) , none of the great houses would have signed the Ares conventions if it actually took from their ability to wage war (the Combine was a signatory after all) , in fact the then nation pacifist state known as the United Hindo Collectives refused to sign the conventions on the grounds that it did more to make war into a blood sport of nations rather than to discourage it
 
So if reading this right our plan is:

We send our navy to capture every mandate jumpship.

Every mandate world is now on there own.

We can now concentrate our forces at out our leisure and ideally force the surrender of many worlds without having to fight
 
One idea I'd like to suggest is that instead of not letting the Capelians have all the mandate worlds as some have suggested we instead let them have all the worlds but leave them to integrate all of the worlds by themselves while we simultaneously invest in our other allies.

For example we could codevelop a new assault mech or assault mech variant with the Aurigan Coalition and construct assembly lines for it in coalition territory. This would assuage Coalition concerns about the Capelians.

We could do other projects like this in the magestry as well.

All of could strengthen the Ordi as well as make it more attractive for other periphery states to join.
 
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