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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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random_npc said:
I don't get how this fupports your point that titans are not that great. abominate forces are explicitly bad at dealing with cornball tricks, like massed geomancers opening up pit traps under your feet.
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I've never said I didn't think they were good, just I'm not impressed by them like other people in the thread are and certainly are not going to be pushing to spend tranth time on something we're going to get anyway.

As for the specific point the trolls I still just find impressive and amusing, especially since again titans tend to have a natural advantage against those kinds of traps due to height if nothing else.

random_npc said:
to your first point, I disagree. Its reiterating a feat that was a crit, nat 100s are almost by definition performance that cannot be reliably recreated. As for your other two poitns, i wll admit that yes. The billons strong unit of high end nobz and borderline combat transendent where more deadly than titans. But to be frank, those are not the kind of units that can be replicated. You can not just make a Headcrusha or Da Krumpas by pouring resources into a factory. Titans and gargents however, can be mass produced. They are the only convinal milltary force that orks have used that have been a threat, further, in the example with Headcrusha we focused heavily on removing the enemy gargants because we know damn well the rest of the waaagh had no hope in hell of breaching the walls.

So i reiterate, titans or titan analogs have consistently been one of the most dangerous parts of enamy armies. surpassed only by unique or nigh unique aces such as high end damons, super elite armies, or a borderline transcendent. This is with us explictly being able to mount titan level firepower on banblades and knight titans, and we still tend to take ruinous knight losses or tie up lots of our psykers to deal with enemy titans. We have tools with difficulty and blood, take out titans without having any of our own. Most people don't have those tools, or at least don't have them in nearly the density we do.
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Fair enough, but the point still stands that an individual magma wyrm is likely considerably more dangerous than just about any titan we are aware of.

That's barely been a threat, so long as we're not idiots. There's a reason the unique units have been the actual threats to us and never the titans, they actually have the level of power to us even when we focus them down, titans and gargants for all that they can be mass produced sure as heck are not.

Most dangerous and also most easily disarmed.

The only main time we've taken ruinous losses against titans was against the Nids, Asgard's taken ruinous losses in the past for certain, but that was against Da Krumpas and Turoq not titans.

To reiterate my point where ironically we do agree, Titans are a threat to most people, but unless they're vastly over powered and we're not asleep at the wheel they're not a threat to us since if we're just feeling lazy we can deathstrike them out of existence.

Red Bovine said:
That's really not a fair comparison considering that those Worms are literal bio weapons created by millions year old bio weapons lab created by one of the two most advanced people in the setting. Calling those things just 'worms' is practically the same as saying that the oceans aren't that dangerous because it 'just' has some overgrown fish in it.
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Just making a point that those that go on about the superiority of the machine should get to where its really at, the supremecy of the flesh :p
 
So for those that were questioning the usefulness of Ordinatus Grabakr apparently we would of probably lost without it and the actions we sunk into it. Thank you @Andres110 for pushing for it.

By the Emperor we might want to make a new one for every big war.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
That's barely been a threat, so long as we're not idiots. There's a reason the unique units have been the actual threats to us and never the titans, they actually have the level of power to us even when we focus them down, titans and gargants for all that they can be mass produced sure as heck are not.

Most dangerous and also most easily disarmed.
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yes, we can take out titans.

random_npc said:
We have tools with difficulty and blood, take out titans without having any of our own. Most people don't have those tools
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and they are still on the big reasons we burn through knights so quickly. for people who don't have our major advantages, losing the titan fight means the enemies titans are about to give your forces one hell of a beating, and there is not a thing you can do about it.


plese don't conflate "can elimnate by spending knights like water, and focusing our death striks and massed psyker strikes on" and "they are easy to knock out." and remember, the trust is weird in a lot of ways. We have a massive tech edge, and can field units that are supposed to be rare in massive numbers.
 
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random_npc said:
yes, we can take out titans.




and they are still on the big reasons we burn through knights so quickly. for people who don't have our major advantages, losing the titan fight means the enemies titans are about to give your forces one hell of a beating, and there is not a thing you can do about it.
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Yep, pretty sure I remember Durin mentioning that Titans are in fact better Anti-Titan forces than most of our anti-titan units and that Titans are in fact way better than people that say they aren't think they are.
 
random_npc said:
yes, we can take out titans.




and they are still on the big reasons we burn through knights so quickly. for people who don't have our major advantages, losing the titan fight means the enemies titans are about to give your forces one hell of a beating, and there is not a thing you can do about it.
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And once again we seem to be at logger heads on an issue we mostly agree on.

Only in this recent war have we done so, in every other war titans have not been the main toll on our knights and yes I agree, but we're not most people, we'd be dead if we were :D.

Red Bovine said:
Yep, pretty sure I remember Durin mentioning that Titans are in fact better Anti-Titan forces than most of our anti-titan units and that Titans are in fact way better than people that say they aren't think they are.
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He has, but seeing is believing in my case here.

The only time we've really gotten to see titans at their most powerful is in the Nid war and those are TL30 monstrosities.
 
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random_npc said:
yes, we can take out titans.




and they are still on the big reasons we burn through knights so quickly. for people who don't have our major advantages, losing the titan fight means the enemies titans are about to give your forces one hell of a beating, and there is not a thing you can do about it.


plese don't conflate "can elimnate by spending knights like water, and focusing our death striks and massed psyker strikes on" and "they are easy to knock out." and remember, the trust is weird in a lot of ways. We have a massive tech edge, and can field units that are supposed to be rare in massive numbers.
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At a minimum and as you said, taking out enemy titans has been an action/psyker/resource sink for as long as I can remember.

Lets move towards being able to be more flexible with our Psykers. Especially the much beloved scry'n'fry.
 
Is the Ordinatus Grábakr much good for fighting anything that's not a tyranid? I mean obviously not 20+ but I imagine it could still blow massive holes in hordes of orks or cultists.
 
Nurgle T140

Munitorum [2 Years]
Slot A:
Y2: Recruit: Helguard

Void Command
Slot A
Y1: Combine Shipyards: Gargantuan
MAay expedite depending on cost

Adminstratum [3 Years]
Slot A
Y3: Bloom Bees option



Diplomacy [5 Years]
Y1:Siren Trade
Y2: ear to ground
Y3:Ask Sirens ( if they know of a way to disrupt a large scale chaos ritual and or can help)
Y4: Ask Lizardmen ( if they know a way to disrupt the chaos ritual or can help in anyway)
Y5: Investigate New Asgard Governor
Keep off the more extreme xeno options


Arbites [5 Years,]
Slot A
Y1: Counter intelligence
Y2-5: Greater Psyker Hunting

Mechanicus
Slot A - Explorator
Y3: Titan Design: Avernus-Pattern Warhound Titan
I might change these around since we will not be able to double down on it. Maybe do the black ship cruiser design instead and do the titans next turn. Also Fundamentals of Titans May help with the slow rate we are building them.

Slot B - Any, Fabricator-General
Y1: Multi year action for automated Mobile Research Facility
SLot Any
Y2:
Grand Cathedral of the Machine-God: Omnissiah- : Annwn is now large enough to build a Grand Cathedral of the Machine-God. This would double your already significant production of Advanced Material which would be a major boost to your economy. On the downside it will take decades and be incredibly expensive to build

Time: 25 years

Cost: 790,000,000,000 Thrones, 200,000,000,000 Material, 79,000,000,000 Metal, 3,900,000,000 Promethium, 20,00,000 Advanced Material, 2,600,000 Exotic Material, 320 Relic Material.
Upkeep per year: 79,000,000,000 Thrones, 20,000,000,000 Material, 7,900,000,000 Metal, 390,000,000 Promethium, 2,000,000 Advanced Material, 260,000 Exotic Material, 32 Relic Material.
Reward:+10 to all Adeptus Mechanicus rolls and -1 Unrest (only applies to 1st Grand Cathedral), increase base AM production by 200% (currently +700%), increase AM production by 1,000,000 (107mil), can have either Grand Cathedral of the Omnissiah or a Grand Cathedral of the Machine God,

I put these up becasue someone will argue for something else. That is 107 AM a year, enough so we do not have to import Am anymore and can look to exporting Am even. well Maybe ... maybe not becasue of the power armor options.

Telepathica

Slot A - Ridcully
Y3: Greater Divination (Chaos Ritual Details)
-- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 3 PLUS FREE DIVINATION FOR TRIPLE DOWN
Y4: Greater Divination (Location Of Lion El' Jonson)
-- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 4
Y5: Primal
Primal warp research has a very low chance of success. We have 150 plus Ridicully control stat minus 100.

Slot B - Tamia
Y3: Implement (Siren Rune that is not done)
Y5: Anti-Blood God Powers: Countering
- - DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 5
Slot C - Aria
Y2: Create Psyker Order ( construction of Psyker cities, building of Psyker Quaters and expansion)

Personal

Slot A
Y1: Advanced Power Armour: Helguard Trooper Regiments –


SLot B
Y2: Construction Expertise (Expand and downgrade Forge-Hive: Erecura ) – Your Vizier Rosalinda Orlov is a highly skilled architect and can oversee any major construction projects that the Administratum handles. This should be a good way to keep the expansions of your cities progressing.

Time: as project
Cost: free.
Reward: do one Adeptus Administratum, construction project with your characteristic bonus and traits

Slot C
Y1: Go Somewhere to grieve for SYR your beloved Daughter
Y2-5: Jane
Ok Rosa I may put on hive cutie building since our biggest bottleneck in thrones. Also with both Huge Forges coming online in less than 30 years that means we will not need as much AM Or Em imports.

ok preplan subjet to change. also if you want something explain why, and have a good reason why we should do that. not just becasue you want it
 
Nurgle said:
I might change these around since we will not be able to double down on it. Maybe do the black ship cruiser design instead and do the titans next turn. Also Fundamentals of Titans May help with the slow rate we are building them.
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We do not need to design titans when they will be given to us soon anyway, and given that we've just started doing fundamentals psy cannon, we should at least think about that or putting that new found void shield knowledge to use completing either the ultimate shield or those new personal void shields.
 
Nurgle said:
I might change these around since we will not be able to double down on it. Maybe do the black ship cruiser design instead and do the titans next turn. Also Fundamentals of Titans May help with the slow rate we are building them.
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I strongly believe Fundamentals Titan Building is the most important of the three potential options you listed. The faster we can get the production lines running the sooner we will have titans in deployable numbers.

IMO of the three I'd do it in this order. Titan Building > Warhounds > Black Ship Cruisers.
 
I feel like getting the location of Lion isn't that important to finally figuring out what he's been up to especially since if he's been hiding for a good reason than blowing his cover is kind of dumb
 
Doomed Wombat said:
We do not need to design titans when they will be given to us soon anyway, and given that we've just started doing fundamentals psy cannon, we should at least think about that or putting that new found void shield knowledge to use completing either the ultimate shield or those new personal void shields.
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Ultimate Void shields still has a -28 chance of success. Also double down is being used by Telepathica.
 
NotteBoy97 said:
I feel like getting the location of Lion isn't that important to finally figuring out what he's been up to especially since if he's been hiding for a good reason than blowing his cover is kind of dumb
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How exactly is using Rid's divination in anyway close to blowing his cover? Pass the info along to his brothers and let them decide if they need to fetch him.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
We do not need to design titans when they will be given to us soon anyway, and given that we've just started doing fundamentals psy cannon, we should at least think about that or putting that new found void shield knowledge to use completing either the ultimate shield or those new personal void shields.
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Have we ever gotten a confirmation that yes the forge empire is designing the Titans? Cause I don't remember that ever being a thing. And even if they are they are not Avernus style ones which are built with a higher-tech base than even the forge Empire? We are now a level 19 tech military+ civilisation after all.
 
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Views on Titans following the Grábakr war
  • Sidestory
    • Views on Titans following the Grábakr war

    Private Vinder Bearer
    34th Lindon PDF

    "We'd always thought we'd be able to take titans. Well, not us, but the support we called in. We thought it'd be like tackling the bigger beasties back home. Run away, call in support, and have them cut down to size with neutron beams. Only, on Hvelgelmir there was no support. Nothing meaningful. We ran, and they shot us. They vapourized a fifth of the population of Dragotown in one shot. The whole lot were in the pdf. Was a craze- they decided, as a district they wanted a free holiday. Figured Hvelgelmir sounded fun. Weren't too worried about the whole war. They were Avernites. War was life."

    Lt Peter Peregrine
    23rd Helguard Superheavy "The Utter-Bastards"

    "So I pilot a Northern Sentinel. Big bastard. Lots of firepower. Pretty mobile. I might as well be a knight... Except they'd mulch me in a brawl.
    We had orders to take down the big nids. The Big nids. They were fucking massive. I fought the Valinor Titanica in the bowls of Dis and these fuckers would have been able to eat those daemon warlords whole. Our guns, apparently the height of the wonders of human technology, the peak of what is possible with science.... They did sweet Fanny Adams. NADA.

    Those giant beasties would take a hundred neutron blasts and just keep on coming. Nothing we did could really stop them. Sure, we downed one of the 150m plus bastards. Eventually. When it broke through the wall, our lines, the lines behind ours and got within a minute of shooting at the Ordinatus. A direct hit staggered it. We just cleaned up. I still think we didn't kill it, and it was the Eldar that ended it... somehow."

    Colonel Boris Corbyn
    2562nd Dis PDF Siege Infantry Brigade

    "I fought those things... I don't have a brigade anymore. They were melted. Some were eaten. Some were.... Squished.

    I'm alive... Somehow. I have 3 lieutenants, a captain, 2 privates and half a dozen corporals. That's it. That's all who survived. 10 of them have requested transfers to the black irons. I'm considering joining them."

    Lord General Samantha Khol
    Commander of Averneus
    "I personally believe we underestimated the superheavy combatants of hive fleet Grábakr. In the early war our anti-titan forces were sufficient but in the later battle they could not consistently prevent Tyranid breakthrough. Attrition rates were too high.

    Keep in mind that I'm saying that.

    We are likely to face massed chaotic titans or Gargants again in the near future, which we are more prepared to deal with. If it turns out we are again fighting foes with sterner Superheavies I only hope that the Eldar can once again spare us some of their titans.

    Incedentally I've been comparing their performance metrics to some proposed Averneus pattern warlord loadouts. While we are slower, I believe the additional mobility the gravitational manipulation provides would lead us to wanting to ape their doctrines, rather than using imperial era methods.

    I would sorely like some warlords in my line of battle, if only for the eternal war, although I suspect we will have a host of Biotitans and a flight of utter bastar... I mean 'sky' dragons before then."
     
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  • Sidestory
    • Nurgle said:
    Y3: Greater Divination (Chaos Ritual Details)
    -- DOUBLE DOWN YEAR 3 PLUS FREE DIVINATION FOR TRIPLE DOWN
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    Are you sure this is necessary? I know the ritual is an important subject, but I think that using the free GD for a +20 bonus is generally best for subjects with super-big maluses where it can mean the difference between failure and success, rather than different degrees of success. Devoting the free GD to a separate look at the same thing rather than burning it for a boost here would work better, in my opinion.

    Nurgle said:
    Y5: Primal
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    Now is not a good time for Rids doing longer research projects. We need lots and lots of divination, and this is going to make us lose a GD next turn. Even though we're out of GDs here, couldn't we do a FD on something, or research something that takes less time like look at the BC bracers or one of the Warp echoes?
     
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