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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Doomed Wombat said:
So lets choose the compromise option and say bugger y'all we're doing our own thing.

Compromise is the business of making everyone equally unhappy so lets go against the mold by making just these two unhappy.



Fair enough lets settle this.

@Durin
1. Would either the Aesire or Vanir be actually pissed in a serious way if do things our own way instead of following their laws for inheritance, or would they respect our autonomy and right to elect our own leaders our own way just as they do regardless of any views on the merits of that system. AKA would they actually be up in arms, or just a bit miffed at us asserting our own independence from them as their equal and one of the trust's most powerful worlds?
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1. a bit miffed. Its not something serious but it is still something they care about. This is USA being annoyed by EU abortion laws and euthanasia not a diplomatic crisis
 
If this is game of throne quest then Tormund is just pull Robb.I don't blame him tk have feeling and "the need of many" philosophy that he can disagree.



But when people scream and dying in political shitstrom then I hope Tormund can brace through it.


I still feel like Durin try to justified Tormund's reason to not be too unreasonable.That what happen when you need to justified two nat 1 critical failure and translate it to story.
 
if Tormod doesn't want to be governor then there is no forcing him besides the culture that developed on Avernus does not support bloodline succession anyway not to mention that the whole bloodline thing Rotbart has is a lost cause if the one continuing it doesn't care for it , just pick some else and patch things up with Tormod , lets just groom Jacob for the job he is technically our nephew any way

DragonParadox said:
OK, let me put this another way, take a look at Tormund's stats, Is he the absolute best their we could have, if we selected from a wider pool of candidates as is traditional to do in Avernus (a fact which he is himself concerned with)? I would say no, his propensity for extreme dice rolls is a pretty big minus and his relatively low low admin skill speak to that. He does however have one major leg up over other options in that he is Frederick's biological heir who the old understanding with Vanaheim supports. However he has this turn rejected that part of his heritage rather thoughly. Under those circumstances it seems reasonable to me to seek out another heir by normal Avernite procedures.

Also please do not imply you know my motivations better than I do, it's rather frustrating to argue on those terms.
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Jacob is the perfect choice as his combat and piety stat makes sure he wont suddenly die cause random dice , his diplo and learning are pretty good too only his martial and admin need work which Rotbart is extremely qualified to teach
 
skaro said:
If this is game of throne quest then Tormund is just pull Robb.I don't blame him tk have feeling and "the need of many" philosophy that he can disagree.



But when people scream and dying in political shitstrom then I hope Tormund can brace through it.


I still feel like Durin try to justified Tormund's reason to not be too unreasonable.That what happen when you need to justified two nat 1 critical failure and translate it to story.
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political shitstorm? nothing like that. Now your talks with the Nyenye and Trolls on the other hand...
 
DragonParadox said:
OK, let me put this another way, take a look at Tormund's stats, Is he the absolute best their we could have, if we selected from a wider pool of candidates as is traditional to do in Avernus (a fact which he is himself concerned with)? I would say no, his propensity for extreme dice rolls is a pretty big minus and his relatively low low admin skill speak to that. He does however have one major leg up over other options in that he is Frederick's biological heir who the old understanding with Vanaheim supports. However he has this turn rejected that part of his heritage rather thoughly. Under those circumstances it seems reasonable to me to seek out another heir by normal Avernite procedures.

Also please do not imply you know my motivations better than I do, it's rather frustrating to argue on those terms.
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If we're just going by stats Tormod isn't that bad either.

He has no stats lower than exceptional sans diplomacy which is at a crippling skilled level (this includes admin) despite the fact that pretty much every other candidate we have is at least a hundred years old and tend to have at least one stat where they've dumped and he's only just half that. So immidiately he could expect to have a level of competence across all areas of government, that pretty much nobody but Jacob can match.

If Rotbart died today then yes, he wouldn't be the best candidate no doubt about that, Jacob or Vlad are the best really, but for someone out skilled in areas by a five metre long tiger that's over 300 years old that isn't surprising.

His weakest stat isn't his admin its his martial IMO and yes you are correct his double rolling is his biggest problem.

However, you are not judging him fairly in that regard, he's a "young" (I don't really have a better word to be using) whose barely started growing and already seen significant stat growth in a very short period of time compared to anyother character who isn't Jacob, and Jacob had to get thrown into the caverns to do that.

Instead you are judging him at a moment of reasonable weakness and declaring that he is out of the running entirely which is frustrating to me.

And I'm sorry, but it is really really frustrating to see these arguments.

AlsoSprachOdin said:
Crap, I been out of this quest for too long. Whose older brother, brother's wife, their children etc... Does Fred have an older brother, now? Does he have multiple grandchildren? What?
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Specifically they've got ideas of oath and blood family, oath family are well from oaths, blood family are from people who fight side by side a lot.

Legally both can do things like inherit property and are considered legal family members.

Brogatar said:
Question where is ridicually's reroll?
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Doesn't apply to family stuff.

And its Ridcully mr 5 diplomacy I don't think he could reroll this even if he tried.
 
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@Durin got to say I actually like the nat 1 with Tormod. Really paints a picture of there relationship of someone who grew up outside Avernus and Avernus problems with other people. Also a very human reaction in time of grief. Really good job.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
If we're just going by stats Tormod isn't that bad either.

He has no stats lower than exceptional sans diplomacy which is at a crippling skilled level (this includes admin) despite the fact that pretty much every other candidate we have is at least a hundred years old and tend to have at least one stat where they've dumped and he's only just half that. So immidiately he could expect to have a level of competence across all areas of government, that pretty much nobody but Jacob can match.

If Rotbart died today then yes, he wouldn't be the best candidate no doubt about that, Jacob or Vlad are the best really, but for someone out skilled in areas by a five metre long tiger that's over 300 years old that isn't surprising.

His weakest stat isn't his admin its his martial IMO and yes you are correct his double rolling is his biggest problem.

However, you are not judging him fairly in that regard, he's a "young" (I don't really have a better word to be using) whose barely started growing and already seen significant stat growth in a very short period of time compared to anyother character who isn't Jacob, and Jacob had to get thrown into the caverns to do that.

Instead you are judging him at a moment of reasonable weakness and declaring that he is out of the running entirely which is frustrating to me.

And I'm sorry, but it is really really frustrating to see these arguments.
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Fair points, but the thing is we live on Avernus, Fred could die tomorrow to fluke dice and we need a clear line of succession. Under those circumstances I think it would be best to make that selection sooner rather than later, based on what is in front of us now rather than what we expect to change in the future.

Shard said:
@DragonParadox Could you please tone down the salt
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This is very confusing to me.:confused:

I'm am not in the least bit upset with Tormund or anyone else, I'm just trying to suggest the best path going forward given his attitudes.
 
DragonParadox said:
Fair points, but the thing is we live on Avernus, Fred could die tomorrow to fluke dice and we need a clear line of succession. Under those circumstances I think it would be best to make that selection sooner rather than later, based on what is in front of us now rather than what we expect to change in the future.
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DragonParadox said:
I'm am not in the least bit upset with Tormund or anyone else, I'm just trying to suggest the best path going forward given his attitudes.
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His attitides are at the moment I am both depressed and angry, yes they're not great in the immidiate future, but that's no reason to go for immidiate throw him under the bus in that regard.

As I've already said a few times now, this wouldn't be happening if either of them were in better states of mind, Tormod would have mentioned the Aesire, Vanir and Avernite perspectives since you know he is skilled with diplomacy and Fredrick wouldn't have gone about suggesting this so insensitvely.

This isn't indicative of either of their normal states.

We do have to think about the immanant deaths, but even then that's never stoped us from looking long term rather than short term, especially since as you've noted we're hardily lacking in appropriate replacements if Rotbart does die tommorow. The Avernite government is very well hardened to that possibility and we're not scrambling for heirs whether Tormod decides to abdicate or whatever else may happen.
 
It's always amazed me that the current tyranids forces in the galaxy are just the small splinters that sneaked past a giant galactic blockade of necrons.
 
Meritocracies are the worst form of government since they're the just world fallacy inflated large. It's a "meritocracy" so everybody's position in life must be because they deserved it, right?

Rotbart knows that it's bullshit; that Avernus isn't a meritocracy because no place is, because the parents still strive to help their children and give them advantages that give them a leg up on others. Because those children inherit their parents' web of contacts and friends and a chance at their parents' social status. Jacob was maybe born swole, but without Jane deciding to make him a personal project would he ever have been more than just another Champion in the army? Was any effort spared in Syr's development?

Rotbart is dismayed to find that Tormund has drunk the koolaid and really believes the useful lie that is the Avernus "meritocracy".
 
Honestly, I never really cared all that much about the Line of succession either way. Sure, IT would bei neat for Tormod to continue our Line but IT was never a primary concern to me...I mainly Care about Avernus and the Trust Not going under.
 
Briefvoice said:
Jacob was maybe born swole, but without Jane deciding to make him a personal project would he ever have been more than just another Champion in the army?
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I mean you say that, but it is Jacob.

He probably would have gotten to where he is now anyway, it may have just taken longer.

Briefvoice said:
Rotbart is dismayed to find that Tormund has drunk the koolaid and really believes the useful lie that is the Avernus "meritocracy".
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And in general I think we've had the "Avernus isn't a meritocracy" argument enough times to get to know the gist of things, arguably it is unfair, but its much fairer than most other systems that claim to be meritocracies even if only on account of the massive amount of death at all levels of society as well as a large number of institutional things like guaranteed high level education, health care, scholarships and the like which ensure that only the extremely rich really do have a leg up in these situations, the number of our martials who come from very poor back grounds helps attest to this.

There is no need to be cynical about the "meritocracy" for the reasons it wouldn't work IRL, there's the much bigger problems of why it works in embers. Namely the vast piles of corpses.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
His attitides are at the moment I am both depressed and angry, yes they're not great in the immidiate future, but that's no reason to go for immidiate throw him under the bus in that regard.

As I've already said a few times now, this wouldn't be happening if either of them were in better states of mind, Tormod would have mentioned the Aesire, Vanir and Avernite perspectives since you know he is skilled with diplomacy and Fredrick wouldn't have gone about suggesting this so insensitvely.

This isn't indicative of either of their normal states.

We do have to think about the immanant deaths, but even then that's never stoped us from looking long term rather than short term, especially since as you've noted we're hardily lacking in appropriate replacements if Rotbart does die tommorow. The Avernite government is very well hardened to that possibility and we're not scrambling for heirs whether Tormod decides to abdicate or whatever else may happen.
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I see the point, but there is one thing I feel needs to be considered in the matter of Tormund reacting this way due to his mother's death. For someone who thinks in dynastic terms, the time to think about future children is just after someone else in the succession died. It's a grim thing but no less real. Tormund for his part rejected that, not softly not conditionally in a 'I need more time to grieve' but definitively and wish harsh words. I think this is pretty much settled now, though I will freedly admit it is just my impression of the matter and we can't be sure of that yet.
 
DragonParadox said:
I see the point, but there is one thing I feel needs to be considered in the matter of Tormund reacting this way due to his mother's death. For someone who thinks in dynastic terms, the time to think about future children is just after someone else in the succession died. It's a grim thing but no less real. Tormund for his part rejected that, not softly not conditionally in a 'I need more time to grieve' but definitively and wish harsh words. I think this is pretty much settled now, though I will freedly admit it is just my impression of the matter and we can't be sure of that yet.
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That is true, although I'll note again that his final coming down and rejecting the idea was after Rotbart insulted him, something Rotbart notes and seems to regret.

Its more likely that had this been a 2 him going need moretime with harsh words would have been the result, but this was a nat 1 so Rotbart went on kept pushing, let loose the insults and bang.

Given time I think they can recover though.
 
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