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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Doomed Wombat said:
Pretty sure there's quite a significant divide in power between the two, but I don't know the system well. Just that one is bigger, tankier and has more dakka.
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Yes if these ships were being sent out to other worlds not under our control then the more powerful battleship would be a smarter idea. They are not they are going to be inside our territory with a heavy escort and near our forces anyways. That means the difference is a non-issue especially because we still need the same amount of ships no matter which one we choose. As for size and power depends the Grand Cruiser is the same size as the smaller end of the battleship scale.
 
Reynal said:
On the Helltroopers I favor weighting them towards Pulse Rifles. Between the skill reduction, the cost (in both time and resources), and the fluff about it straining our logistics I don't like the doubling up option, so the question is which of the two weapon types is more generally useful for the Helltroopers. And while for us that may be anti-horde work, their role in the greater Trust is still far more slanted towards handling elites. I'd still like some Volkite usage (as Rotbart's paragon makes it so that he can pick and chose beneficial matchups even against a more generally unfavorable foe for them), but majority Pulse makes sense.
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I admit that the time and the extra cost are heavy factors against the Double up, but I don´t really get why the minus ten to the bonus is such a big deal, I mean our actual bonus for the helltroopers is 482, a minus 10 is basically negligible.
 
Adventwolf said:
Yes if these ships were being sent out to other worlds not under our control then the more powerful battleship would be a smarter idea. They are not they are going to be inside our territory with a heavy escort and near our forces anyways. That means the difference is a non-issue especially because we still need the same amount of ships no matter which one we choose. As for size and power depends the Grand Cruiser is the same size as the smaller end of the battleship scale.
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On the other hand that's a sizeable escort that won't be doing patrols in other areas. We've a lot of ships not infinite ones, especially since they are doubly out manoeuvred in the warp.

Imperial battleships range from 8-12KM long Grand Cruisers or at least the two I found numbers for are around 7.
 
ArchAIngel said:
Every +10 is +10% effectiveness, basically.

Durin's system is a little odd like that.
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And as I have noted on the Discord, I think that is an illegitimate argument. The bonus the respective weapons provide against their favoured enemies effectively gives a +15 bonus or more to their favoured enemy. It's worth taking a -10 penalty to get a +15 bonus.

There are arguments for the various options that I do believe are legitimate but that is not one of them in my opinion.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
What's the prediction, then? The timetable, so to speak?
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We dunno.

He has his own timetable.

We know there will be a finale and depending on how well we do the name will change to either Sparks or Ashes at Midnight.

He is planning "major changes", but what those will be we also don't know. Probably making the quest more efficient in a lot of ways, for example Shard suggested two areas which could be eliminated as action categories.
 
Andres110 said:
And as I have noted on the Discord, I think that is an illegitimate argument. The bonus the respective weapons provide against their favoured enemies effectively gives a +15 bonus or more to their favoured enemy. It's worth taking a -10 penalty to get a +15 bonus.

There are arguments for the various options that I do believe are legitimate but that is not one of them in my opinion.
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Pulse weapons don't really have a favored enemy, though. They're generalist weapons, like Impalers - they're good against everything, unlike Volkites which are great against low armor foes but weak against heavily armored foes.

Doubling up means that in any and all situations where we'd end up using Pulse Weapons, our Helltroopers would be less effective than they otherwise would be. It might be useful if we're dealing with an enemy that's pretty much all hordes and numerical superiority, but we'll end up less effective against foes that have higher concentrations of elites.
 
On Volkite vs Pulse, I think it'd be best to go 1/4 Volkite and the rest Pulse.

Because our guys are elite, even if in the context of Avernus they are frontliners rather than 'true' elite.

But in the context of the Trust, and especially the rest of the galaxy? They are not Helguard/SMs, but they will be expetected to hold against Nobz and equivalent when in the field on fuckhueg battles.

So we definitely shouldn't make them toothless against those.
 
Do the soldiers have to carry two guns at the same time? Do we have to settle on the ratio like this? Why can't we just kit them out with the appropriate weapons at the start of the campaign, and skip out on the skill loss (or at least mitigate it)?

@Durin could Tranth create a standard issue combi-weapon that merges Pulse Rifles with Volkites?
 
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Doomed Wombat said:
And presumably they're not lugging both weapons around and instead get them issued as appropriate, the loss in skill comes from having to learn how to use two markedly different weapons with equal skill.
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According to the description they will:
Durin said:
Double Up-After comparing Pulse Rifles and Volkite Calivers you found that there are benefits and disadvantages to equipping your Helltroopers with each. By supplying your forces with both you would be able to get the benefits of each type. However this would double the stress on your logistics, weigh down your soldiers and force them to split their training between two rather different weapons.
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Which I consider somewhat ridiculous.
 
on the double training thing, my issue is not the -10 skill, its the high probability that there are going to be narrative costs to the extra weight and logistical issues.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Pretty sure there's quite a significant divide in power between the two, but I don't know the system well. Just that one is bigger, tankier and has more dakka.
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Well something to keep in mind is we can't even build battleships locally as they take gargantuan shipyards. We can build grand cruisers locally as they only require Huge shipyards. Basic battleships also require 2.67x the slip-years (the most relevant cost for our naval expansion usually) compared to basic grand cruisers. I'm comparing basic models here because them being a black ship is probably going to affect construction time in some way, but it's likely a fairly proportional manner.

Now the divide between the two very much depends on the specific loadout of the ship and what enemies you're facing. Typically it will probably end up with the battleship being around twice as durable as the grand cruiser, and with probably in the neighborhood of twice the firepower.

I'm not sure how relevant firepower and escorts even are for black ships though. Black ships only go to our own worlds. When they're around our worlds the system defense forces will pretty much always have more firepower than the black ship even if it's a battleship. So anything that wants to attack them while they're at one of the colonies has to be sufficient to overcome the system defenses, at which point the difference between a grand cruiser and a battleship probably isn't that significant. The only other time to attack the black ship is in the warp, and no one fights with macrocannons and lances in the warp, it's your soldiers vs warpy bullshit, so the ship stats don't really make a difference.
 
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