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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Humans have a powerful Us vs Them instincts in their heads.

Try to switch from playing the Avernus, or the Trust, to playing the sane polities of the Milky Way.

From that point of view, sharing all of our tech is the obvious choice. Maximum benefit to the galaxy at large.

Lets not be one more selfish asshole in a galaxy overflowing with them.
 
Enerael said:
Humans have a powerful Us vs Them instincts in their heads.

Try to switch from playing the Avernus, or the Trust, to playing the sane polities of the Milky Way.

From that point of view, sharing all of our tech is the obvious choice. Maximum benefit to the galaxy at large.

Lets not be one more selfish asshole in a galaxy overflowing with them.
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I agree with you I also want that the other Sane human polities have all our designs, but I would suggest something more than "Be generous and hope for the best" there are many things that we can get out of this (Callamus industrial designs and biological implants, Secundus Hybrid Tau tech, Quartus knowledge of superhuman engineering) and this is an incredible opportunity for us so we should try to get the most out of this.

I´m all for not being a selfish asshole, but let´s not be stupid-good either.
 
I would point out that if we want more people to have more tech we should be TRADING the tech away...not giving it away

1:if we are A, and there are groups B and C at the trade.
2: (a) is the unique tech that we have and (b) is the unique tech that B has...and (c) is the tech that C has (which for my purposes of discussion is nothing)

then in the case that A (us) and B has things that noone else does. we might think that giving away our tech is the best way to increase tech of everyone...but only B and C benefit from (a) (the unique tech that A has) in the case that B doesn't themselves share.(in the case that they do share then theres no difference between everyone *trading* all of their tech and everyone *giving* all of their tech

however, in the case that we trade our tech away to Group B in return for their tech..then we can ALSO give away our tech (a) to both B and C while also having (b) to give to C as well.

This logic will apply regardless of the number of players, the amount of tech, who has the tech, or if anyone doenst want to gift their tech away (except us of course).
This does assume that the amount of tech that we have to give/trade away is fixed and not dependent on the conditions of which we do so (which is probably going to increase the reward for trading since it seems that if we can get somethign in return, we will have more people in OUR group who are willing to trade )....at least going off the latest update)

the only problem is that B might be angry that the tech we gave them wasen't unique...but that should come up at the discussion THERE I think because that will need to be negotiated.

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TLDR

If this doesn't make sense, I am willing to write a semi-formal Game Theory proof that TRADING our tech away is the BEST way to maximize EVERYONE's tech in the long run (because then we can take the tech which we GOT in the trade and later give it to others)

This is actually a unique situation from a game theory perspective that the entire situation collapses to only a single Nash equilibrium point. (at least with the assumption that we ourselves don't want to maximize our own RELATIVE tech...that is us having the MOST tech...which I believe should NOT be the case...we want the maximum ABSOLUTE tech quanity and for everyone)

...note... in the case that everyone is indeed wanting humanity to have as much tech as possable..then it doesnt matter if we trade or gift our tech away as it will all be shared anyway once we get the chance to re-trade the new tech...but in the case that everyone only trades their tech away..then it gets traded away anyway.....followed by us giving the tech to everyone that remains.
 
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@Durin I want to boost our tech level, and I don't care much about what we have to sell to do it. I feel like the thread feels much the same.

With that in mind, what exactly would we vote for to represent that result?
 
the only thing keeping us at tech level 18 is our being unbalanced if we were balanced iirc it would be near level 20 we need more production stc's
 
DkArthas said:
What are you talking about? Primarches are nowhere near that old.

Perpetuals are the ones most likely to react in that manner.
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Assuming that Dalv is in fact the original Vlad Tepes of Wallachia, then he might have had a hand in the naming thing. Like, he hears that the representative of the Pyskana is named Ridcully, so he whispers in a few ears and suddenly the local branch is going to be called the Unseen University.
 
thamuzz said:
Assuming that Dalv is in fact the original Vlad Tepes of Wallachia, then he might have had a hand in the naming thing. Like, he hears that the representative of the Pyskana is named Ridcully, so he whispers in a few ears and suddenly the local branch is going to be called the Unseen University.
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:V:V:V The motherfucker is so sneaky he made all the neighboring planets name themselves after his favorite legends and fiction !
 
thamuzz said:
Assuming that Dalv is in fact the original Vlad Tepes of Wallachia, then he might have had a hand in the naming thing. Like, he hears that the representative of the Pyskana is named Ridcully, so he whispers in a few ears and suddenly the local branch is going to be called the Unseen University.
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The moment we discovered Dalv = Vlad, I was wondering if Dalv is in fact a perpetual who was born as one Vlad 'Dracula' Tepes of Wallachia.
 
Trilobite said:
We can't afford not to, our tech is one of the few advantages we have and if we are going to lose that we must get something of equal value to us in return otherwise we start to lose what relevance we have on the big stage.
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We're not actually going to lose our tech advantage. If we give away our technologies to these polities, we'll still have our technology and we'd still be vastly more advanced than all of our neighbours. It'd only be a loss of advantage if they were our neighbours, but they're not, because they're in entirely different parts of the galaxy.

Furthermore, giving away technology does not make us lose relevance on the big stage. We have no relevance on the big stage, or at least none other than what military forces and divinations we give to the eldar. What big stage relevance we could have with our tech is directly proportional to how much we give away. If we give away only a little, we're not really relevant, because a few scraps of tech doesn't change anything in the grand scheme of things. Giving away a lot, on the other hand, would change big parts of the galaxy massively, which means we'd be very relevant.
 
I'm pretty fine with generously trading away the Tier 1 and 2 techs and fairly trading away the other three levels. The thing to keep in mind is that we're not trading to get more tech for ourselves (though that's good). We're trading so that the bigger, saner powers of the galaxy can do a better job holding off the threats that could completely curb stomp us if they ever notice us.

As to who should go to the meeting I'm kind of disappointed that the option with the least amount of support is also the only option that has Surt going. I'd very much like to see him in a room with all the primarchs to see what happens.
 
Durin said:
Tier Three technologies are the more complex STCs such as the Hyper Plasma Reactor, Ragnarok Cannon, Dreadnought designs, Advanced Power Armour Varients, Neutron and Grav Weaponry and similar. While some a push to give these away there are several councilors pushing to only offer these technologies in trade for significant, if not necessarily equal technologies.
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@Durin
1. are there any techs in this tier that need another Tier three tech to be any good?
2. if yes, would there be support for pushing those ones down a level to encourage people to pay for the next level up?
3. same questions for Tier four.
 
@Durin

Something I noticed, does this include the data-crystal tech?

If not, can we have it added on, please, so we can make a better decision?

Or at a minimum make the data-crystal check before this so we can get all our shiny bitz?
 
JesseJ said:
I'm pretty fine with generously trading away the Tier 1 and 2 techs and fairly trading away the other three levels. The thing to keep in mind is that we're not trading to get more tech for ourselves (though that's good). We're trading so that the bigger, saner powers of the galaxy can do a better job holding off the threats that could completely curb stomp us if they ever notice us.

As to who should go to the meeting I'm kind of disappointed that the option with the least amount of support is also the only option that has Surt going. I'd very much like to see him in a room with all the primarchs to see what happens.
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Surely then the best option would be to be generous on all fronts, because that will likely get all tech into the hands of the people who actually need it.

Seriously this is feeling a lot like a big deal when it really isn't.

Being generous with these guys is not to our detriment and is only to our benefit.

ArchAIngel said:
Or at a minimum make the data-crystal check before this so we can get all our shiny bitz?
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Durin said:
Tier Two technologies consist of the more advanced general STCs, the majority of the naval technologies and Dark Age vehicle designs, Data-Jewels and the basic power armour variants. There is a bit more debate on trading away these technologies but it is widely agreed to trade them away very cheaply, if not give them outright.
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This what you mean?
 
Ok so no one has brought up the economics that are upcoming since we are going to be generous. We need to promise to expand the Admech. Am wise we have more than double. Unfortunately we wil take a hit in material. Which means we need to trade with Midgard or to try to get a huge subsidy at the end of the turn. Durin usually allows us to bring something up at the end of a meeting.

@Durin if agree to expand Admech forces can we ask for a subsidy from the council or has that past?
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Surely then the best option would be to be generous on all fronts, because that will likely get all tech into the hands of the people who actually need it.

Seriously this is feeling a lot like a big deal when it really isn't.

Being generous with these guys is not to our detriment and is only to our benefit.



This what you mean?
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No, we had the Eldar crack a bunch of them open I thought?

I wanted to know if the tech in there was something we got to see.
 
Nurgle said:
Ok so no one has brought up the economics that are upcoming since we are going to be generous. We need to promise to expand the Admech. Am wise we have more than double. Unfortunately we wil take a hit in material. Which means we need to trade with Midgard or to try to get a huge subsidy at the end of the turn. Durin usually allows us to bring something up at the end of a meeting.

@Durin if agree to expand Admech forces can we ask for a subsidy from the council or has that past?
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I am not sure if this is something that needs a subsidy really
 
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