The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

[MonkeyTypewriter]

[X] Plan IOU
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 1 and Tier 2 technologies.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 3 technologies.
-[X] Agree to fund an expansion of the AdMech military within a decade to gain Scott's support.
[X] Vote in favor of allowing other powers to pay for Tier 4 technologies via promising to deliver modernized imperial designs and other credit schemes. Or agreeing to foot the bill for the next meeting.
-[X] Argument 1: We will likely have a substantial backlog of designs that need modernization, such as Imperial Knight Patterns and Titan desings, and it may take decades or even centuries for our tech priests to upgrade them to spec. They will also be constantly competing with other priorities and could suffer delays. Outsourcing them will likely save substantial R&D time and budget.
-[X] Argument 2: The other powers will almost certainly be doing modernization anyway, so it will cut down on duplicate research, and thus strengthen humanity's position.
-[X] Argument 3: They'll be modernizing their Titan and knight designs anyway, so it won't actually cost them anything. Thus, they'll look completely ridiculous if they refuse.
-[X] Argument 4: Having a major power owe us favors is always useful, as we just demonstrated with the Eldar recently
[X] Vote in favor of allowing other powers to pay for Tier 5 technologies via promising to deliver modernized imperial designs and other credit schemes.
-[X] Same as above really. We've only got a single design, after all.

 

[SirHades2.0]

[X] Enjou

 

[jjffjhjf]

I'm willing to bet cash that they've got s few dozen tricks up their sleeves.

Any polity that big has to have some nice shit. I think you're underestimating the other groups.

Click to shrink...

I'm sure they have nice things. Its just that, our tech is 18(military) apparently. While the other 3 are at 15, 15, and 16. I kinda expect us to have so much more tech than them that this isn't going to be a fair trade at all. If they had tons of really nice stuff, they'd be a higher tech rating. I suppose they could have gotten new stuff since, but I don't know that it'd be enough to make the trade equal. So, I'm going into this with the mindset of, how to we get perceived best whilst ensuring every tech all of our polities have gets shared everywhere, because we're going to be the powerhouse in the tech trade.

 

[Ruirk]

[X] Enjou

Yeah, I don't disagree with the mentality of this plan at all.

 

[Aeondrac]

[X] Enjou

 

[huntsman0697]

[X] Enjou

 

[Durin]

Bed now.

@Durin
1. Will there be the chance to confront Dalv (or should I say VLAD) before the meeting?

Click to shrink...

1. no

Ok then, here's what I've got. Subject to edits in the Argument sections.

[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 1 and Tier 2 technologies.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 3 technologies.
-[X] Agree to fund an expansion of the AdMech military within a decade to gain Scott's support.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 4 technologies.
-[X] Argument 1: The galaxy is becoming more and more dangerous as new threats arise. Apocalyptic threats that will affect the whole of the galaxy are coming. While getting more out of the trade would be beneficial to the Trust, it would be even more beneficial if we can ensure the larger polities of sane humans are armed as best as possible to counter these threats. The Trust simply does not yet have the capacity to act at the scale they do, and shield the greater galaxy (including the Trust) from the evils to come.
-[X] Argument 2: In light of those threats, an unfortunate possibility must be acknowledged - the Trust could well be destroyed. In that event, any technology we've held back will likely be lost to humanity forever.
-[X] Argument 3: Reciprocation of our generosity is likely. What we are offering is high level to begin with, so they will already be willing to pay highly for them. If they do not reciprocate, then they will appear stingy, especially if one of the other three polities reciprocates immediately as they would look shameful for not doing so.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 5 technologies.
-[X] Argument 1: If Tier 4 has been discounted, point out that we currenlty only possess one technology at this level, and that while impressive it does not have the same strategic scale impact as the other technologies we have as it can only be produced in limited numbers due to high costs. Bartering hard over a single piece of technology that would have less impact than the tech on the prior tier would appear inconsistent. Should the data jewels provide additional technologies of this tier, the group going to the meeting can decide on whether or not to negotiate harder for them

@Durin
1. Do any of the above arguments sway anyone?

Click to shrink...

1. argument 2 in particular is enough to sway Admiral Freyr

 

[atrophy]

Well if they dont have super much in tech to trade thats why acquiring space marine chapters might make sense as a reward people especially if we are trading everything and we dont know what we will get back ?
I wouldnt hate getting all 7 missing legions to our realm as a result as a additonal result aside from the tech we are trading for and after blood dragons merge is done we would have all 9 loyalist legions in our realm and thanks to the time part in the merge taking so long the legions would start being useful around then aswell wich would be straight since we would basicly have great crusade legion size astartes force by then and look what they acheived.

Especially for imperium secundus who might have the three non ultramarines available in either dark angels,iron hands or imperial fists from them since their main tech they can give is probably tau developments only more or less and maybe some stuff from the forge worlds they recruited .

Callamus dont have much space marines so that doesnt count much but they will have the most tech we are intersted in since they have been innovating and cooperating as forge worlds for about a millenium with few hundred forge worlds wich should have given alot of decent tech upgrades with chances for some very good stuff + they are known for their industrial tech upgrades wich is very attractive to us.

From the primarchs outside some heresy tech wich for the most part was just recovered daot tech for their base more or less and was mostly honestly just inferior to that to be honest and whatever stuff corvus and vulkan can provide with maybe ryza also having some cool stuff to offer.
They would have their 4 primarch legion geneseed available for sure i think and we would like 10 skilled people to base the chapter around aswell . This could be alot more realistic thanks to the fact that new astartes were upgraded thanks to corvus figuring his astartes enchanctments out wich take more than geneseed so the older astartes are abit surplus to requirements just a little bit to make things more realistic.

Imperium secundus and the primarchs must have a mars equilevant geneseed cache or atleast secundus will have it for sure no idea how primarchs treat other non primarch chapters tough , especially for the non primarch chapters and giving the geneseed from that and then giving us a veteran super duper squad of specialists basicly is what we want wich shouldnt be super expensive.

Also space wolves might be iffy to acquire since the non fenrsian recruitment might only work thanks to the new astartes creation progress so we might not get them at all .
Salamanders apparently were using their successor chapters as cover for uniting their legion so they should have astartes avialable and my priority to be honest.
Not so sure about white scars and khan since i imagine its been abit since he was rescued and some chapters should have drifted back to him outside what he recruited himself sofar .
Corvus might give us a successor chapter geneseed and leadership i imagine but he has been the primarch who has been active the most since the fall and might have the must united legion outside salamanders i guess, he also somehow hid his home planet wich is insane.

@Durin , strange questions and might be asked before. My best guess that it works like this in reality but im not sure and a psyker hunter thing.

1) The varangian guard librarian , cant we make him or a subordinate of his byzantiums telepathica representitive? So we get another chapter of those outside the two we have outside avernus basicly?
2) Basicly just to have another world covered by telepathica but not have to pay the hero cost ?
3) Would be willing to send regular psykers help tough to them to get it started to trigger another offical chapter of telepathica aswell.
4) What about using other librarians as primaris psykers or whatever is needed for other worlds telepathica leaders aswell? As a idea basicly
5) Basicly since librarians should have alot more hero potentitial than regular psykers and they are kinda immortal age wise aswell?
6) Can we ask for psyker hunting help from the varangian guard this trade meeting ?

 

[Durin]

Well if they dont have super much in tech to trade thats why acquiring space marine chapters might make sense as a reward people especially if we are trading everything and we dont know what we will get back ? I wouldnt hate getting all 7 missing legions to our realm as a result as a additonal result aside from the tech we are trading for and after blood dragons merge is done we would have all 9 loyalist legions in our realm and thanks to the time part in the merge taking so long the legions would start being useful around then aswell wich would be straight since we would basicly have great crusade legion size astartes force by then and look what they acheived.

Especially for imperium secundus who might have the three non ultramarines available in either dark angels,iron hands or imperial fists from them since their main tech they can give is probably tau developments only more or less and maybe some stuff from the forge worlds they recruited .

Callamus dont have much space marines so that doesnt count much but they will have the most tech we are intersted in since they have been innovating and cooperating as forge worlds for about a millenium with few hundred forge worlds wich should have given alot of decent tech upgrades with chances for some very good stuff + they are known for their industrial tech upgrades wich is very attractive to us.

From the primarchs outside some heresy tech wich for the most part was just recovered daot tech for their base more or less and was mostly honestly just inferior to that to be honest and whatever stuff corvus and vulkan can provide with maybe ryza also having some cool stuff to offer. they would have their 4 primarch legion geneseed available for sure and we would like 10 skilled people to base the chapter around aswell . This could be alot more realistic thanks to the fact that new astartes were upgraded thanks to corvus figuring his astartes enchanctments out wich take more than geneseed so the older astartes are abit surplus to requirements just a little bit to make things more realistic.

Imperium secundus and the primarchs must have a mars equilevant geneseed cache or atleast secundus will have it for sure no idea how primarchs treat other non primarch chapters tough , especially for the non primarch chapters and giving the geneseed from that and then giving us a veteran super duper squad of specialists basicly is what we want wich shouldnt be super expensive.

Also space wolves might be iffy to acquire since the non fenrsian recruitment might only work thanks to the new astartes creation progress so we might not get them for them . Salamanders apparently were using their successor chapters as cover for uniting their legion so they should have astartes avialable and the same for khan since i imagine its been abit since he was rescued and some chapters should have drifted back to him outside what he recruited himself and corvus might give us a successor chapter geneseed and leadership i imagine but he has been the primarch who has been active the most since the fall and might have the must united legion outside salamanders i guess.

@Durin , strange questions and might be asked before. My best guess that it works like this in reality but im not sure and a psyker hunter thing.

1) The varangian guard librarian , cant we make him or a subordinate of his byzantiums telepathica representitive? So we get another chapter?
2) Basicly just to have another world covered by telepathica but not have to pay the hero cost ?
3) Would be willing to send regular psykers help tough to them to get it started to trigger another offical chapter of telepathica aswell.
4) What about using other librarians as primaris psykers or whatever is needed for other worlds telepathica leaders aswell? As a idea basicly
5) Basicly since librarians should have alot more hero potentitial than regular psykers and they are kinda immortal age wise aswell?
6) Can we ask for psyker hunting help from the varangian guard this trade meeting ?

Click to shrink...

1. not really, Astartes Psykers are different enough from human psykers that one training the other can lead to issues

 

[Adventwolf]

[X] Enjou

Good enough for me. I was willing to go down for Tier 4 & 5 but this argument seems to swear at least two.

@Enjou maybe for tier three bring up the Knight-Titans. Asgard needs more models and if we agree to push for getting all the models available we might get Hrothgar on our side. Durin said getting the different models and Patterns would boost the skills of the Knights which seem to have hit a plateau with the limited number of models they have.

 

[atrophy]

1. not really, Astartes Psykers are different enough from human psykers that one training the other can lead to issues

Click to shrink...

thanks for answering and another unrelated to that u didnt asnwer@Durin
1)Can we ask for psyker hunting help from the varangian guard during the trade vote so we get a price for that ?

 

[jjffjhjf]

Well if they dont have super much in tech to trade thats why acquiring space marine chapters might make sense as a reward people especially if we are trading everything and we dont know what we will get back ?
I wouldnt hate getting all 7 missing legions to our realm as a result as a additonal result aside from the tech we are trading for and after blood dragons merge is done we would have all 9 loyalist legions in our realm and thanks to the time part in the merge taking so long the legions would start being useful around then aswell wich would be straight since we would basicly have great crusade legion size astartes force by then and look what they acheived.

Especially for imperium secundus who might have the three non ultramarines available in either dark angels,iron hands or imperial fists from them since their main tech they can give is probably tau developments only more or less and maybe some stuff from the forge worlds they recruited .

Callamus dont have much space marines so that doesnt count much but they will have the most tech we are intersted in since they have been innovating and cooperating as forge worlds for about a millenium with few hundred forge worlds wich should have given alot of decent tech upgrades with chances for some very good stuff + they are known for their industrial tech upgrades wich is very attractive to us.

From the primarchs outside some heresy tech wich for the most part was just recovered daot tech for their base more or less and was mostly honestly just inferior to that to be honest and whatever stuff corvus and vulkan can provide with maybe ryza also having some cool stuff to offer.
They would have their 4 primarch legion geneseed available for sure i think and we would like 10 skilled people to base the chapter around aswell . This could be alot more realistic thanks to the fact that new astartes were upgraded thanks to corvus figuring his astartes enchanctments out wich take more than geneseed so the older astartes are abit surplus to requirements just a little bit to make things more realistic.

Imperium secundus and the primarchs must have a mars equilevant geneseed cache or atleast secundus will have it for sure no idea how primarchs treat other non primarch chapters tough , especially for the non primarch chapters and giving the geneseed from that and then giving us a veteran super duper squad of specialists basicly is what we want wich shouldnt be super expensive.

Also space wolves might be iffy to acquire since the non fenrsian recruitment might only work thanks to the new astartes creation progress so we might not get them at all .
Salamanders apparently were using their successor chapters as cover for uniting their legion so they should have astartes avialable and my priority to be honest.
Not so sure about white scars and khan since i imagine its been abit since he was rescued and some chapters should have drifted back to him outside what he recruited himself sofar .
Corvus might give us a successor chapter geneseed and leadership i imagine but he has been the primarch who has been active the most since the fall and might have the must united legion outside salamanders i guess, he also somehow hid his home planet wich is insane.

@Durin , strange questions and might be asked before. My best guess that it works like this in reality but im not sure and a psyker hunter thing.

1) The varangian guard librarian , cant we make him or a subordinate of his byzantiums telepathica representitive? So we get another chapter of those outside the two we have outside avernus basicly?
2) Basicly just to have another world covered by telepathica but not have to pay the hero cost ?
3) Would be willing to send regular psykers help tough to them to get it started to trigger another offical chapter of telepathica aswell.
4) What about using other librarians as primaris psykers or whatever is needed for other worlds telepathica leaders aswell? As a idea basicly
5) Basicly since librarians should have alot more hero potentitial than regular psykers and they are kinda immortal age wise aswell?
6) Can we ask for psyker hunting help from the varangian guard this trade meeting ?

Click to shrink...

They won't trade gene-seed on its own. And the matter of actually getting Space Marines to us requires going through the Eldar. I don't see us getting Space Marine chapters sent to the trust as a really viable option. I mean... I guess it might be possible? We can certainly ask, but don't expect that to work. It was expensive just to send a single person through all this. Sending large numbers of people through is going to be significantly more so.

 

[Adventwolf]

1)Can we ask for psyker hunting help from the varangian guard during the trade vote so we get a price for that ?

Click to shrink...

Do you mean help from the other factions? The Guard is part of us. They already send forces to Avernus all the time.

 

[atrophy]

We would want a squad basicly not a chapter of space marines and the geneseed of like few hundred not thousands . My hope is they would let them travel to us since it would be a result of the summit or atleast be willing to do it kinda cheap , maybe they ask for one divination or something like that thanks to our new relations boost with the eldar?

My hope is that we explain we want more space marines and our thought is that we want the loyalist legions and giving geneseed might be possible since the central mars geneseed cache equilevants should still be a thing and primarch realm will have non enchanted astartes from before corvus stuff was implemented kinda available aswell to make it abit more realistic. We will be trading with the highest leadership so it might be possible. Basicly say we want to repeat the success we have had with varangian guard more or less.

It could be a hope that our being so generous in the trade part of the meeting might trigger them be willing to give us a chapter seed basicly as a additional trade item.

I mean a company or two of varangian guard wich are our own space marine chapter/legion whose job would be hunting rogue psykers only more or less like our psyker hunter forces job to reinforce our pysker hunters and what it would cost and could it be included in the upcoming domestic trade stuff.

And my philosophy for the trade is going to be be generous but dont give stuff away aside from tier 1 i guess?

 

[REAPER35]

[X] Enjou

 

[atrophy]

Also kinda stealth big trade items will be juvenat especially the hyper advanced one and the warp speed boost void abacuses i think would be very useful tech. They werent mentioned in the threadmark post . We got sick rewards for the juvenat if people remember right and im pretty sure it wasnt super distrubuted since it was just before emperors death.

The hope is also that they have better warp speed or communication tech to make larger realms abit more realistic cause currently we plan to conquer the 50-200 ly range of us wich will be us a center and taking the neighborughing sectors only more or less. Thank to the merger decision wich would include old turoqs realm , demagouge realm and north of us and the farthest realm wich me might in the old tugozak realm wich is the longest distance away to cripple the orks more or less since it would spew tier two and might trigger tier three if it gets going.

 

[Durin]

thanks for answering and another unrelated to that u didnt asnwer@Durin
1)Can we ask for psyker hunting help from the varangian guard during the trade vote so we get a price for that ?

Click to shrink...

they will offer once their numbers are built up enough, which should be pretty soon

 

[agumentic]

I'm a bit iffy on not holding anything back, as we may want to entice someone into a full exchange with bargaining, but then we're not just giving the tech away, and more generosity from us might do the enticing anyway. Plus, there's tech in the data-jewels.
[X] Enjou

 

[atrophy]

I have some negative thoughts that decoding the data jewels might be worth more than what we trade for from the conference wich is pretty sad to be honest in the worst case trade scenarios :/ .

 

[Valerian]

You know.....

Even if the three polities end up not having much tech to offer us, there is another method they could pay us back with.

Heroes/Paragons.

They could lend us the services of some of their finest for a period of time. We have already seen what kind of impact a few Paragons in the right place can have on our fortunes. How much more could exceptional individuals from these much larger and more accomplished polities contribute to the Trust's fortunes in the days to come?

 

[atrophy]

Thats kinda the point since chapter masters will be near hero tier with recruiting new space marine chapters or atleast in the 40-s for their best stats i imagine hopefully and we already honestly have a seriously strange amount of paragons for our realm size asfar i can tell and they more important stuff to do.

And our strategic paragon trait is overpowered especially with ridicully being available to warn about incoming attacks so we never are suprised wich is seriously the reason why we have survived the freaking quest sofar is and is the reason why i feel the future of the quest is super bright. Unless we trigger someone big enough wich might happen when we join the dragon nest or they react to our trade conference results and we get sent a mini black crusade by the areas abbadons lieutant who is closest to us for example as a "punishment" for example since they are big enough that they could murder us if we roll baly enough for the reaction rolls i guess.

 

[Ptolemy]

[X] Enjou

Is there any sort of map out there to show the positions of the Imperial Trust and the other Imperial remnant factions in the galaxy?

 

[Adventwolf]

Is there any sort of map out there to show the positions of the Imperial Trust and the other Imperial remnant factions in the galaxy?

Click to shrink...

No map with the areas highlighted unfortunately. The closest we have is the one that shows the local region with the circle for ranges. It's in the informational tab under regional map. It really only shows Segmentum Pacifucus and some part of the others but not enough to show where the other factions might be.

 

[Ptolemy]

No map with the areas highlighted unfortunately. The closest we have is the one that shows the local region with the circle for ranges. It's in the informational tab under regional map. It really only shows Segmentum Pacifucus and some part of the others but not enough to show where the other factions might be.

Click to shrink...

Ah, yeah, I thought as much. I was really hoping for something that would help me to visualise what the galaxy currently looks like, and where everyone is, but alas.

 

[Reynal]

maybe when she dies

Click to shrink...

So, over or under a fifty percent chance of her stepping down after death?

Ok then, here's what I've got. Subject to edits in the Argument sections.

[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 1 and Tier 2 technologies.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 3 technologies.
-[X] Agree to fund an expansion of the AdMech military within a decade to gain Scott's support.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 4 technologies.
-[X] Argument 1: The galaxy is becoming more and more dangerous as new threats arise. Apocalyptic threats that will affect the whole of the galaxy are coming. While getting more out of the trade would be beneficial to the Trust, it would be even more beneficial if we can ensure the larger polities of sane humans are armed as best as possible to counter these threats. The Trust simply does not yet have the capacity to act at the scale they do, and shield the greater galaxy (including the Trust) from the evils to come.
-[X] Argument 2: In light of those threats, an unfortunate possibility must be acknowledged - the Trust could well be destroyed. In that event, any technology we've held back will likely be lost to humanity forever.
-[X] Argument 3: Reciprocation of our generosity is likely. What we are offering is high level to begin with, so they will already be willing to pay highly for them. If they do not reciprocate, then they will appear stingy, especially if one of the other three polities reciprocates immediately as they would look shameful for not doing so.
[X] Vote in favor of greatly discounting Tier 5 technologies.
-[X] Argument 1: If Tier 4 has been discounted, point out that we currenlty only possess one technology at this level, and that while impressive it does not have the same strategic scale impact as the other technologies we have as it can only be produced in limited numbers due to high costs. Bartering hard over a single piece of technology that would have less impact than the tech on the prior tier would appear inconsistent. Should the data jewels provide additional technologies of this tier, the group going to the meeting can decide on whether or not to negotiate harder for them

@Durin
1. Do any of the above arguments sway anyone?

Click to shrink...

@Enjou
One argument you might want to add is that at least some of the polities have been working on researching and improving tech. If we give them more stuff of ours, it is likely that if we meet them again in the future they will have worked to improve that technology on a different path than we have, which will allow us to reap further benefits from their RnD program.

Another would be that a lot of the high tech level stuff (t4 & t5) is very useful for killing single high-value targets—such as Ork warbosses, the largest collective threat at the moment.