The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
I was trying to make it illegible, to simultaneously call back to the original title, and let me make it read "the hunted", in reference to daemons wanting to kill the idea in the cradle.
Would you suggest a line of underscores equal to the number of spaces in 'PSYKER', a blank space equal to the number of spaces in 'PSYKER', a removal of the word, or a completely different title?
Why? For whatever alternative you're recommending.
I'd suggest using cipher to shift the letters of the word up or down by 1 to make it look like gibberish. So it'd be "ORXJDQ" or "QTZLFS". Hides the word while still hinting at it.

Honestly, I have no real idea what would be best. All I can really say is that zalgo text is annoying to encounter.
 
@Enjou sending the whole council allows us to trade away more tech and do other options that may come up. Since a meeting like this may not happen again for a long time I think sending the whole council will allow us to trade more tech since they will be meeting the Primarchs, fabricate general, legion master ... etc. it is actually a reallly good sales technique since it is harder to say no to people you have met.

The thing is I don't think you're considering the likely disadvantages of bringing everyone. If it was obviously a good thing to bring everyone, nobody would be considering other reasons.

Also it will be easier to send Rotbart and Surt to meet the leaders of the sane human polities if we bring the conservatives.

Considering there will be more people jockeying for their time if we bring more people, I'm not sure why that would actually be the case.
 
If there's anything that Rotbart should really be doing, it's interacting with the Primarchs. I know people marked it as funny, but I wasn't joking about games of regicide with them. Rotbart is literally the best mortal human general to ever exist - he's got a trait that says so. Martial Paragons are rare. Even some of the Primarchs weren't Paragons in that field, and Rotbart was noted to be a Primarch level military genius even before Paragon. Engaging in even a mock military battle through games with Primarchs is something where there's a chance both sides might actually learn something, because Rotbart would actually be doing something where he might actually be able to compete with them on even footing.
I think you are right about Rotbart being able to match the strategic abilities of the Primarchs.

Unlike combat, where the Primarchs probably get huge multipliers due to their Primarchness, I don't see martial being the same case.

Anything that would effect their strategic abilities would likely have already been expressed in their martial score. While I'm sure they probably have some sort of skill which impacts the effectiveness or morale of their troops, I think if we look at the pure strategic abilities of Rotbart compared to a Primarch, he would be able to hold his own.
 
The thing is I don't think you're considering the likely disadvantages of bringing everyone. If it was obviously a good thing to bring everyone, nobody would be considering other reasons.



Considering there will be more people jockeying for their time if we bring more people, I'm not sure why that would actually be the case.
It really depends on what is going to happen in the next few years and what is going on. A normal high council meeting takes a few weals. So this would not be to different unless we are worried the Eldar plan to murder everyone or someone is stupid enough to try to attack. Getting past the order of omens and the increase defenses on all worlds. Also with the Eldar watching out for the trust now. I think it would be safe for the high council to be gone for a few weaks.

But let's wait to see what happens at the high council meeeting first.
 
Blacked of Zahak
Blacked of Zahak
part 1
Zahak's daemons are extraordinarily few, whether this is because of the cost of creating them or merely due to the stringent selection criteria is unclear. Known as the Blackened each of them is an ascended mortal who have managed to surpass the invisible boundary that separates even exemplars from those truly above other heroes even before receiving the blessing of their goddess.

Much like their lord the Blackened are wildly atypical for daemons. They typically appear much as they did as mortals, only covered in some form of black substance. For the most part the only universal power all Blackened Ones share is a degree of their master's hunger, though even it vary wildly among them in how strong it is and how it manifests. While they cannot casually consume anything they slay, any daemon sent back to the Warp by their hands will have a portion of its essence consumed by the Blacked, the strongest Blackened typically taking the greater bite from their foes. Furthermore, they seem able to ritualistically devour a daemon entirely should it be bound in place, an ability that explains why so many of them seem interested in unearthing bound demons. Beyond this, the Blackened share little in common with each other. They seem to possess a degree of resistance to most anti-daemon techniques, though whether this is because they are altered less than most demons or yet another quirk of their nature is not known.

Behaviorally the Blackened barely seem to be related. While they will universally fight Chaos wherever they encounter it they typically seem to pursue the goals they possessed as mortals, only now with infernal immortality. However many seem to seek altruistic ends, more so that could be explained purely by chance.

The Eldar have shed some light on how they seem to be able to slip into the mortal plane with greater ease than typical daemons. To use a (painfully) inaccurate metaphor, they are metaphysically smaller than most demons of their potency, relying far more on skill rather than raw spiritual mass, much like a mortal does. In addition, they seem able to construct semi-permanent bodies for themselves, bodies capable of acting much like a daemonhost and enabling them to survive prolonged stints in realspace. This means that should a Blackened be slain, even by purely mundane means, they will be greatly inconvenienced, as the body they were using will likely be expensive and time consuming to reconstruct. This is not enough to fully explain the relative ease in which they pierce the veil, but it does hint at greater limits than we are presently aware of.

Given Zahak's apparent interest in Ridcully, a degree of familiarity with her servants has been deemed a priority. Through greater coordination with the Eldar we have been able to form a clearer picture of her servents. So far the most reassuring aspect is that she has relatively few, and rarely gathers more than a handful in one place.

The Shield Maiden

Perhaps the oldest and most potent of the Blackened, known to accompany Zahak even on damnation's respite. The Shield Maiden is a creature of spiked and clawed ebony warpsteel, though aside from being covered in spiked metal, she appears otherwise to be human. When not in combat the steel retreats revealing an unremarkable woman with tanned skin and dark hair. She bears no weapon save her claws but is capable of calling forth and dismissing a wide variety of potent artifact shields, though whether they are true artifacts or merely a manifestation of her power is not known. Whatever their true nature may be the shields are extraordinary potent in a number of exotic ways, in a few cases even allowing her to deflect titan fire (and in one case, an anti orbital laser) back it's source, albeit at an obvious cost.

She alone seems to possess the full measure of her lord's hunger, enabling her to devour fully any daemon that dies at her claws. However in combat her style is immensely defensive, relying heavily on counters strikes and the unpredictable effects of her shields. She also seems capable of a form of near instant short range teleportation, allowing her to instantly interpose herself between any attack and its target. There are credible eldar accounts of her using shields that projected wide defensive field and rapid teleportation to shield entire Companies of troops. Her relationship with Zahak is unclear, but it seems deeply personal* and it is known that her master has gone to great and terrible lengths to safeguard her from harm.**

Amongst the Blackened she seems unique in that she spends most of her time in realspace advancing Zahak's interests, being personally present for most recorded incidents where an amnesiac avatar needed retrieving. When not serving her master the Shield Maiden seems to gravitate towards situations where innocents are in danger before acting to safeguard them. In one notable incident, an inquisitor was able to bait her into an unfavorable engagement by deliberately endangering a large orphanage.*** However, it is unlikely the shield maiden will be spending much time in realspace for some time, as Zahak herself seems to be devoting much of her attention to divine politics and will likely be needing her most potent servant at her side.

* They seem to treat each other extremely informally, and there are a handful of cases where the Shieldmaiden swayed Zahak from a course of action.
** Zahak has only used scorched earth tactics against Inquisition's resources in response to attempts to bind or slay the Shield Maiden. The Inquisition seems to have quietly concluded it was not worth the retaliatory strikes after Zahak pointedly rammed a battleship into a a moon a few miles from a major inquisitorial fortress.
*** Yes really. It ended poorly for everyone but the orphans.

The Proud Father
Once one of the greatest Datasmiths of Mars, and a renowned father of titans, his fall was both sudden and tragic. His original name has long been stripped from history, but much of his story has been reconstructed, at least in general terms. As a mortal, he was skilled in the shadow games that whirl around the upper echelons of Mars, but seemed to view them as an annoying distraction to his true passion and skill, the creation and refining of machine spirits. In recognition of his skill as a Datasmith he was charged with the creation a machine spirit intended to form the centerpiece of a master crafted Imperator titan to be gifted to the head of a titan legion in recognition of some great deed now lost to legend. For decades he labored to craft his masterpiece, a machine spirit of power and cunning to dwarf all that had come before it. Spurning the conventional wisdom he would produce a work unclouded by rage, a spirit capable of sharpening its Princep's mind with Omnissiah's wisdom rather than clouding it with its fury. However, once it was activated his day of triumph turned to ashes, for the machine spirit's first action upon activation was to print a simple message
Hello father

At first, he desperately tried to insist it was merely the willfulness of a titan expressed differently, but as time went on and the spirit began showing a clear personality and ability to grow unaided his denials became thiner and thiner. Soon there was no denying that he have created an abominable intelligence. While he possessed sufficient clout to survive such a mistake, he could not bring himself to slay the new life he had inadvertently birthed. It is unclear how exactly he was able to escape Mars with his blasphemous creation in tow, but the number of unrelated hereteks exposed in the aftermath has certain implications.

Past this point, Imperial records have no hint, though the eldar were able to provide a rough outline. He spent several decades growing increasingly desperate, his initial forays into the Hell Forges of the Dark Mechanicus serving only to drive his hatred for his corrupted peers to new heights, and expose him to yet another set of hunting hounds. During this time he achieved a great many feats of legend, overcoming scarp code and hobbling entire battle congregations both pure and tainted alike with cunning binary snars and destructive data hymns. But the hunters where circling, and he was running out of places to hide. It was at this point that he was approached by Zahak. We do not know what deal she offered him, but both the father and his child joined the ranks of the Blackened.

The Proud Father is near unique among the Blackened in that he looks nothing like a mortal. In his mortal life, he favored more inhuman forms of cybernetics, a trend that has only continued now that his body is made of warpstuff, his appearance constantly shifting and changing as he adapts new improvements to his form. The only constant is a layer of black grime, and an ability to at last pass for human in bulky clothing. The second is reportedly something his new god has insisted upon for unknown reasons.

In modern times the Proud Father provides gear for those other Blackned that need it, and may be responsible for much of the strange equipment used by the Fair Trader and her Grail Guard. Much of his time however is spent finding new and creative ways to steal secrets for himself and super heavies for his son from the Dark Mechanicus. His ability to construct demon engines for his own use is of great benefit in his endeavours, as few dark Magos who would pay heed to a simple possessed servitor going about its business, or question who is the master and who is the puppet when encountering a robed figure communicating with a demon engine. He is perhaps the single most accomplished tech thief still among the living, and while his usual methods are geared heavily towards taking advantage of the Dark Mechanicus there is some concern he would be a considerable intel risk should he decide to attempt to pilfer the secrets of the Trust.

In person, when not playing a role, he is cantankerous and seems to still hold something of a grudge against the Adeptus Mechanicus for their ill treatment of his son, though since the fall of the Imperium it seems to have been reduced to a mild distaste for most tech priests. His hate of the Dark Mechanicus however has only been stoked further by the long acquaintance with the horrors they unleash upon the galaxy. As a final oddity, despite being a daemon himself he makes very limited use of other demons in his devices. While he has made daemon engines intended to be piloted by his fellow warpspawn, beyond that the only device he regularly utilizes that draws directly upon the infernal is the Aethergrinder, a reactor that simply burns daemons as fuel. Allegedly he has found common ground with Sophont in their mutual disdain for reliance on such things in place of more reliable technology. The possible outcome should he forge a close relationship with that strange god has caused some concern.

The Forbidden Son
Once a machine spirit, then an abominable intelligence, and now a daemon of the Warp. Blasphemy upon blasphemy, yet not even the Eldar can speak of a time where he has been anything less than an ally to man. Loud and brash the Forbidden Son seems to have found no reason to forsake his original duty of guarding humanity, charging time and time again into the fires of war to smite the Great Enemy and bring safety and succor to his creators.

While technically a data daemon, the Forbidden Son does possess a physical body, in the form of a jet black bank of cogitators. The device's size remains constant and it will typically manifest somewhere inside whichever vehicle he has been installed in, which appears to be the reason why he seems unable to inhabit shells smaller than knight titans. He excels at wrestling control of daemon engines from other daemons and overcoming bindings placed upon him, skills he has used to usurp daemon engines mid-battle in the past. However, typically he strides forth in knights and titans captured and upgraded by his father.

How exactly he is able to enter the materium is unknown, but it is suspected that his wholehearted embracing of his role as a shield against the darkness is part of it. It is possible that he has embraced this role to the point of claiming a small and limited domain, but he has certainly embraced it to the point where riding to the rescue has become a compulsion. Typically he will manifest on human worlds facing a losing battle in whatever chassis he has available; most commonly a knight or a scout titan, but on rare occasions he has worn more massive forms. Once manifested he will immediately move to engage and destroy the attacking force, typically starting with any summoned demons or superheavies.

One could expect a daemon engine manifesting in support of Imperial forces would endeavor to remain somewhat covert, allowing the Chaos of battle to obscure its presence. The Forbidden Son would loudly and boisterously disagree. Constantly broadcasting inspirational speeches, devotional hymns and grandiose challenge to the enemy on all frequencies as he charges heedlessly into battle, bolstering the line as much by reinforcing flagging morale as by cutting down the enemies of man. More than one wavering regiment has been rallied by the sight of a lone knight charging an oncoming squadron of super heavies, and winning. The Forbidden Son displays literally inhuman skill in battle, having a seeming supernatural ability to ensure his more numerous foes always seem to foul each other's shots, even as his own always strike the most advantageous target.

Much of his success can be laid at the feet of his father who always ensures his shells are equipped with the best possible technology, universally including an Aethergrinder. Daemons discorporated at the guns of The Forbidden Son risk being drawn into the device and rendered down into pure psychic power as its capture arrays amplify his natural consumptive abilities. The Forbidden Son can then use this extra power for bursts of extreme performance. Among the systems the Aethergrinder can augment is its own capture arrays, enabling him to enter a cycle of capturing ever larger portions of daemons in its net. In situations where this cycle has been allowed to run for sufficient time he can become near unstoppable, and drag all but the mightiest of daemons screaming into oblivion, however it is rare for him to be able to do so, as most commanders will quickly realize the danger of sending daemons against him. Typically his fate is to fall in glory, cutting a swath towards a lynchpin of the enemy and detonating his reactor and Aethergrinder in a cataclysmic blast. While this is not always enough to turn the tide, he has saved many, many worlds over his long life. If he gains anything from the various memorials unknowingly held in his name is unknown, but likely.

It has been noted that his personality and tactics tend to change with what body he is wearing. With larger and more potent bodies resulting in less focus on bolstering allied morale, and a greater focus in demoralizing the enemy. The effect becomes more pronounced as the size of the body increases, with the one instance in which he rode a Warmonger-class titan into battle rather than a source of hope he became a living icon of fear, driving the enemy before him.

Non-standard titans produce stranger results still, including one instance in which he somehow came into control of an Eldar Phantom Battle Titan resulting in a notable shift in behavior, his taunts shifting to cutting and personal attacks rather than grandiose threats.

While his personality will show a degree of change with his shell, he maintains a surprising degree of idealism. There are no known instances of him engaging Imperial forces, or any other non-corrupted humans powers. While he is more willing to engage other races if need be, against non-chaotic foes he has been known to show respect and stick to honorable conduct. Famously he once risked himself to return the soulstones within an Eldar titan to their people, an act that the Eldar remember to this day.

The Fair Trader
A rogue trader born into debt slavery, she spent her mortal life working to reform the economic practices of her home sector. Leveraging her wealth and prenatural skill at finding mutually beneficial deals, instead of directly challenge the status quo she slowly reshaped the economy of the entire sector to render the old practices non profitable, seeking to slowly strangle those who where profiting from such practices.

While she met with much early success, in time she came to the attention of the powers behind the exploitation of her sector, and was branded a criminal. In desperation, she turned first to bribry, then to pirates, and then finally, to the Ruinous Powers, with whom she tried to forge a deal that would save her life's work while still leaving her the owner of her soul. While it is noteworthy that she came remarkably close to success, ultimately the daemon she bargained with betrayed her, driving her into the waiting arms of Zahak*.

While the Fair Trader appears simply as a merchant stained with ink, it is unclear if this is her actual body or merely an avatar, for the creature seems to inhabit her vessels in a manner similar to how most daemon ships are possessed. Her human form acts as a captain, but rarely if ever leaves the ship, though it is unclear what the limitations exist for her ability to disembark. Her insistence on conducting vacations from aboard either her vessel or one of its small craft likely hint at the nature of these constraints.

The Fair Trader's ship-self seems more akin to smaller demon engines such as defilers that act as shells than typical possession based demonships. In effect, this means they have the outer hull of a mundane warship wrapped around a much larger Warp-borne vessel. While the inner vessel seems able to rearrange its components, it seems limited to devices that have actually been installed. Exactly how much space would fit within the interior of the vessel is unclear, but the Fair Trader has shown cargo capacity at least on par with a mass conveyor. Much like any other demon engine destroying the shell merely banishes the demon within, leaving them trapped in the warp until another hull can be created. Between the direct blessings of her god, and her vessels warp based nature, its speed in the warp is near unmatched, easily able to outpace all but the swiftest of chaos vessels.

Unlike more traditional daemonships the Fair trader requires a crew, a role filled by voidsmen referred to as the Grail Guard. Well trained and equipped with potent technology these mortals act as the ships mortal hands, running the outer hull and performing tasks that need a personal presence. In times of danger, they can also act as infantry. Where they hail from is not known, but it is suspected that the Fair Trader is based out of a world dedicated to the worship of either herself or her god. Some have suspected the excellent discipline of the grail guard may be the result of boons granted to their officers, but they are a secretive enough group that there is no concrete evidence one way or the other.

Over the centuries the Fair Trader has plied the warp lines in everything from a frigate to a grand cruiser, moving between ships as her fortunes rise and fall. In the lead up to the collapse of the imperium, she worked long and hard to form economic ties that could hold worlds together, a task she saw some middling success with. A number of the more successful remnants can trace their formation back to ties forced by the Fair Trader, however so can many Abomination dominions. Since the death of the Emperor she has done what she can to strengthen the trade networks of what powers remain pure, lining her pockets while strengthening what bastions of sanity she can. She has also on many occasions guided refugee fleets to safety. As a result of these habits, more than a few worlds in pure policies will turn a blind eye to her activities, assuming her ships unusual abilities are the result of xenotech rather than the far darker truth.

As a more dangerous trade, inquisition records indicate that she has been known to work with servants of Ugruer to purchase dark relics, with a specific emphasis on acquiring artifacts containing bound daemons such as daemon weapons, as well as hunting down and seizing sites known to hold bound demons. In the context of what we know about the Blackened these practices become far less concerning.**

Aside from her personal efforts of building trade empires she often acts as the hands of her lord and ferrying goods and forces through realspace. Transporting retrieval teams, delivering goods promised by another Blackened as part of a bargain, or transporting her daemonic peers as they go about their business in exchange for favors. In recent years she has had little time for her own efforts, as Zahak has used her services as a courier and source of economic aid as a major tool in integrating some of the smaller religious gods into her alliance. A number of single-world gods owe much of their recent prosperity to a load of goods and knowledge delivered by the Fair Trader.

* A more in depth accounting is en route from the Empire of Ashes.
** Assuming she devours them promptly. She moves around enough the thought of something getting it's hooks into her crew is a concerning one, a daemon could spread its influence quite widely indeed by piggybacking on her trade routes.


@Durin the first 4 of the blackened.

as an aside, if anyone wants to omke any of these guys, go ahead, just run it by me first.
 
Last edited:
A thing It now occurs to me that we should have done a long time ago: we should have kept up the Quartok propaganda, but aimed it exclusively at Midgard, that way it would have transferred over to all of the new colonies, netting us multiple planets for the cost of one.
We could still do that to preempt the next colonisation wave that'll eventually be heading out to the currently tainted worlds.
 
A thing It now occurs to me that we should have done a long time ago: we should have kept up the Quartok propaganda, but aimed it exclusively at Midgard, that way it would have transferred over to all of the new colonies, netting us multiple planets for the cost of one.
We could still do that to preempt the next colonisation wave that'll eventually be heading out to the currently tainted worlds.
I don't think its worth the risk

we already saw what happens when they find out....so even if a failure is unlikely (especally with ridcully), I don't want to risk it.

besides, I think the Quartok will do it on their own because I'm pretty sure they are going to be giving us some of their solders soon(I don't know where I read that)

also, it smells of tzeetch/I don't want to go down that road.
eitherway
 
A thing It now occurs to me that we should have done a long time ago: we should have kept up the Quartok propaganda, but aimed it exclusively at Midgard, that way it would have transferred over to all of the new colonies, netting us multiple planets for the cost of one.
We could still do that to preempt the next colonisation wave that'll eventually be heading out to the currently tainted worlds.

It blew up in our face last time. IC and OC we knew it was a breach of the founding tenets of the Imperial Trust. We were attempting to interfere with other World Governments. We made a choice not to try anything underhanded like that again.
 
Wrong comparison, since DEldar were the only people aside from Chaos to trade in souls. So it's more along lines "Aside from Satan, Hitler was the only being to ever like dogs." In which case most people would be really really suspiciuos of anything to do with dogs.

That's still a logical fallacy. Guilt by association is still guilt by association.

The defense to 'Hitler liked dogs therefore dogs are evil' is not 'look at all these nice people who liked dogs' it's 'there is no causal relationship'. Deeds should be measured on their own merits.
 
The defense to 'Hitler liked dogs therefore dogs are evil' is not 'look at all these nice people who liked dogs' it's 'there is no causal relationship'. Deeds should be measured on their own merits.

I'd argue if everyone who does X posses certain traits, that is valid evidence that someone you find out does X likely has those traits. Also, there is a rather horrifying utilitarianism in feeding human souls to xenos. Like how some would look askance of peopel who solve the trolly problem with cold logic.
 
That's still a logical fallacy. Guilt by association is still guilt by association.

The defense to 'Hitler liked dogs therefore dogs are evil' is not 'look at all these nice people who liked dogs' it's 'there is no causal relationship'. Deeds should be measured on their own merits.
Why it's a logical fallacy to say that you can prove the guilt via association, that doesn't mean association means nothing. It's a correlation if nothing else, and while correlation doesn't imply causation it can suggest it.

While I take the stance that the soul trade with the Sirens is at worst morally neutral, I also think it's fair for others to look at the prominent in-universe soul traders and make the assumption that trading in souls is inherently wrong. Which leaves us with a higher threshold of evidence/argument needed to prove to them that our deal with the Sirens isn't a bad thing.

I'd also like to mention that given that Lin is on the fence about the soul trade here, it's not like we have abundant evidence that it's objectively better from a moral perspective. While painful destruction at the hands of Xenos might beat horrible torture by the Ruinous Powers, the act of facilitating the painful destruction of souls for profit could well have negative effects on the souls of those involved...
 
That's still a logical fallacy. Guilt by association is still guilt by association.

The defense to 'Hitler liked dogs therefore dogs are evil' is not 'look at all these nice people who liked dogs' it's 'there is no causal relationship'. Deeds should be measured on their own merits.
its not about whether or not its a falacy....not everyone is rational afterall and we still have to deal with those people

and even the people who ARE rational still have to respond to it anyway because it doesnt mean nothing.

furthermore, while its a fallscy to say dogs are evil because hitler likes them...its not a fallicy if you think someone is actively making friends with hitler.

This means that even rational people have to treat it as wrong because lots of OTHER people will see it poorly and would from there look poorly on people who are ok with it too.

also, its not that unreasonable. soul-trading is morally.....dangerous even if you want to argue its ok.

lets put it this way....we are on a blades-edge when we do stuff like that....and the slightest push in any direction can turn something that is morally ambigous into something dangerous VERY quickly....and they would be right to at least be wary of us for that.....

finally, if LIN of all people is un-sure...then I feel like we should be un-sure about it.

and they don't even have lin.
 
Last edited:
I'd argue if everyone who does X posses certain traits, that is valid evidence that someone you find out does X likely has those traits. Also, there is a rather horrifying utilitarianism in feeding human souls to xenos. Like how some would look askance of peopel who solve the trolly problem with cold logic.

Even when one is saving them from an eternity of torment by granting them oblivion. Hell I think Erebus once mused that the greatest gift the Chaos can grant its followers is oblivion.

I'd also like to mention that given that Lin is on the fence about the soul trade here, it's not like we have abundant evidence that it's objectively better from a moral perspective. While painful destruction at the hands of Xenos might beat horrible torture by the Ruinous Powers, the act of facilitating the painful destruction of souls for profit could well have negative effects on the souls of those involved...

That only works if one believed Lin is morally infallible. To be honest I don't precisely because he refused to take a stand. If he feared the consequences for the souls of those involved then he could have asked for research into it not washed his hands like Pontus Pilate.
 
Even when one is saving them from an eternity of torment by granting them oblivion. Hell I think Erebus once mused that the greatest gift the Chaos can grant its followers is oblivion.



That only works if one believed Lin is morally infallible. To be honest I don't precisely because he refused to take a stand. If he feared the consequences for the souls of those involved then he could have asked for research into it not washed his hands like Pontus Pilate.
its not that lin is morally infallible...its that they are at least a very good source of morality because we KNOW he can't get twisted by chaos.

furthermore....other people think he is infallible which means we won't get in as much trouble if we have lin backing us up on the things we do/believe.....that IS a rational reason to care about what he says.

lets put it another way....if your piloting a ship in a dark fog and you can barely see 20 feet out....but you are near another ship which has a radar which can see into the fog at least a little....woulden't you be following them pretty darn close even in the case that said radar is sometimes unreliable?

oh, and hes the saint...which means IC we should care very much about what he says....even if its not "rational" by our OOC perspective.
 
Last edited:
its not that lin is morally infallible...its that they are at least a very good source of morality because we KNOW he can't get twisted by chaos.

furthermore....other people think he is infallible which means we won't get in as much trouble if we have lin backing us up on the things we do/believe.....that IS a rational reason to care about what he says.

lets put it another way....if your piloting a ship in a dark fog and you can barely see 20 feet out....but you are near another ship which has a radar which can see into the fog at least a little....woulden't you be following them pretty darn close even in the case that said radar is sometimes unreliable?

You are arguing besides my point. I never claimed it was unreasonable for people to reach the conclusions they did, only that their arguments were fundamentally flawed.
 
Even when one is saving them from an eternity of torment by granting them oblivion. Hell I think Erebus once mused that the greatest gift the Chaos can grant its followers is oblivion.

and the correct solution to the trolly problem is to push the man off the bridge. Peopel would still likely be wary of someone who pushed the person off. Even if you ignore the arguments of it being right, knowing that a person will kill you if the ethical calculus checks out can be reason enough to be careful around them. Even if you logic it out it implies the person doing it is the sort to logic stuff out that dispassionately, and not shy away from doing ruthless actions they think are justified. Remember, part of that trait was obliterating our own cities from orbit and making wide-scale use of world-killing weapons.

looking at what rotbart has done and concluding that if he deems sacrificing you and your necessary he won't blink is not exactly beyond the scope of reason. He is capable of pushing you off that bridge to stop the trolly, so you're going to be wary about him.
 
and the correct solution to the trolly problem is to push the man off the bridge. Peopel would still likely be wary of someone who pushed the person off
To be fair, if you include that person on the bridge is also locked into a horrible torture machine that will horribly torture them forever with no way of rescue except death, pushing them off is something vast majority of people would do, or at least say they would do.
 
To be fair, if you include that person on the bridge is also locked into a horrible torture machine that will horribly torture them forever with no way of rescue except death, pushing them off is something vast majority of people would do, or at least say they would do.

and then you push a few cities into the mega trolly. Remember, the siren trade was not the only thing that got us that trait.
 
Turoq's Assault Part Four: A Decisive Blow
Turoq's Assault Part Four: A Decisive Blow
T=13:00:00-18:08:00


As the Fleet of Atlas closed to within extreme range of Muspelheim the Daemonic Ark Mechanicus at its heart began to act, unleashing waves of hyper-optimized scrapcode on the defending fleet, boosted by the efforts of its network of deamon ship slaves. While at first the scrapcode inflicted chaos on the defenders of Muspelheim soon the powerful Machine-Spirits of the Nomad Cities and Orbital Cities started to counter it with their own data-chants and transmissions. As such when the Chaotic Warships entered weapons range they were met with a coordinated volley of fire and a swarm of well targeted torpedoes rather then scattered fire from scrapcode ravaged defenders. The following battle was a slaughter, with your initial wave of torpedoes and long range weapon wreaking havoc among the chaos escorts and cruisers even as return fire gutted your lighter ships, leaving Mupelheim defended primarily by heavy warships. One of the first casualties in this battle was the Chaotic Ark mechancius, whose deamon hardened armour proved to be insufficient to hold against the Heavy Spinal Accelerator of the Sword of Sutur. Admiral Freyr noted that the cities of Muspelheim seemed to be able to provide pinpoint targeting solutions to allied point defence networks, allowing for the Abomination attack craft to be cut down in droves. After a day long brutal slugging match both sides had suffered massive casualties but Atlas was in a better position, with its greater numbers allowing it to absorb the casualties far better. This forced Admrial Freyr to withdraw most of his forces an allow Musplehim's Nomad Cities to begin being boarded.
T=13:06:00-14:00:00
First Scrapcode
Scrapcode d100=57+75(Chaos)+20(network)=152:
Defence d100=88+75(??)=163:
minor defence, -5 to Imperial Rolls

First Attack
Atlas d100=8+92(skill)+25(psykers)+25(deamonships)+24(martial)+50(Abomination)+10(numbers)=234
Imperial d100=44+80(skill)+20(Technology)+38(Martial)-5(scrapcode)+20(hyperweights)=207
       
Name Type Loses Remaining
Sword Escort 5,301 17,199
Cobra Escort 2,385 5,115
Firestorm Escort 2,209 7,166
Endeavour Escort Crusier 222 18
Dauntless Light Cruiser 32 88
Luna Cruiser 258 42
Dictator Cruiser 258 42
Deamon Luna Cruiser 41 19
Deamon Dictator Cruiser 41 19
Battlecruiser Battlecruiser 23 97
Deamon Battlecruiser Battlecruiser 8 52
Heavy Cruiser Heavy Cruiser 137 103
Deamon Heavy Cruiser Heavy Cruiser 33 87
Grand Cruiser Grand Cruiser 12 48
Deamon Grand Cruiser Grand Cruiser 9 51
Battleship Battleship 2 12
Deamon Battleship Battleship 4 22
Battle Barge Battleship   2
Trasport Trasport    
Mass Convoyer Trasport    
Fury Fighter 36,463 63,537
Starhawk Bomber 20,023 53,197
       
Name Type Loses Remaining
Squire Frigate 517.39 82.61
Page Frigate 517.39 82.61
Youxia Escort Cruiser 171.04 20.96
Monk Escort Cruiser 85.52 10.48
Castle Defence Cruiser 5.35 2.65
Fortress Defence Cruiser 2.67 1.33
Cathedral Defence Cruiser 1.34 0.66
Castra Defence Cruiser 1.34 0.66
Knight Armoured Cruiser 46.47 1.53
Cataphract Armoured Cruiser 30.98 1.02
Kshatriya Armoured Cruiser 15.49 0.51
Samurai Armoured Cruiser 15.49 0.51
Teutonic Heavy Cruiser 3.22 8.78
Chevalier Heavy Cruiser 15.03 40.97
Paladin Heavy Cruiser 4.29 11.71
Templar Heavy Cruiser 3.22 8.78
Gurkha Grand Cruiser 1.43 10.57
Scots Grand Cruiser 1.43 10.57
Landsknecht Grand Cruiser 1.43 10.57
Pope Grand Cruiser 1.43 10.57
Berserker Battleship 0.18 7.82
Saint Battleship 0.09 3.91
Vajra Command battleship 0.01 0.99
Einherjar Command battleship 0.00 1.00
Legend Dreadnought 0.00 1.00
Defence Monitor Escort 185.31 14.69
Orbital Weapons Platform Defence 2,220.81 279.19
Heavy Orbital Weapons Platform Defence 338.05 161.95
Defence Station Defence 6.67 93.33
Ramilies Starfort Defence 0.10 25.40
Guardian Fighter 7,008.29 22,991.71
Wraith Stealth Fighter 1,460.06 13,539.94
Dragon Bomber 4,672.19 15,327.81
Assassin Stealth Bomber 540.22 6,859.78

Second Attack
Atlas d100=95+92(skill)+25(psykers)+25(deamonships)+24(martial)+50(Abomination)+10(numbers)=321
Imperial d100=89+80(skill)+20(Technology)+38(Martial)+30(hyperweights)=257
       
Name Type Loses Remaining
Sword Escort 2,206.71 14,992.48
Cobra Escort 836.91 4,278.20
Firestorm Escort 919.46 6,246.87
Endeavour Escort Crusier 17.88 -0.33
Dauntless Light Cruiser 28.80 58.83
Luna Cruiser 38.69 3.18
Dictator Cruiser 38.69 3.18
Deamon Luna Cruiser 18.83 0.46
Deamon Dictator Cruiser 18.83 0.46
Battlecruiser Battlecruiser 26.34 70.48
Deamon Battlecruiser Battlecruiser 9.29 43.16
Heavy Cruiser Heavy Cruiser 73.74 29.69
Deamon Heavy Cruiser Heavy Cruiser 31.86 55.07
Grand Cruiser Grand Cruiser 10.20 37.42
Deamon Grand Cruiser Grand Cruiser 7.69 43.48
Battleship Battleship 1.91 9.69
Deamon Battleship Battleship 3.32 18.50
Battle Barge Battleship 0.00 0.00
Trasport Trasport 0.00 0.00
Mass Convoyer Trasport 0.00 0.00
Fury Fighter 19,422 44,115
Starhawk Bomber 12,196 41,001
       
Mupelheim      
Name Type Loses Remaining
Squire Frigate 72.26 10.34
Page Frigate 72.26 10.34
Youxia Escort Cruiser 18.25 2.71
Monk Escort Cruiser 9.13 1.36
Castle Defence Cruiser 1.61 1.04
Fortress Defence Cruiser 0.81 0.52
Cathedral Defence Cruiser 0.40 0.26
Castra Defence Cruiser 0.40 0.26
Knight Armoured Cruiser 1.32 0.20
Cataphract Armoured Cruiser 0.88 0.13
Kshatriya Armoured Cruiser 0.44 0.07
Samurai Armoured Cruiser 0.44 0.07
Teutonic Heavy Cruiser 2.74 6.04
Chevalier Heavy Cruiser 12.77 28.20
Paladin Heavy Cruiser 3.65 8.06
Templar Heavy Cruiser 2.74 6.04
Gurkha Grand Cruiser 1.25 9.32
Scots Grand Cruiser 1.25 9.32
Landsknecht Grand Cruiser 1.25 9.32
Pope Grand Cruiser 1.25 9.32
Berserker Battleship 0.16 7.66
Saint Battleship 0.08 3.83
Vajra Command battleship 0.01 0.98
Einherjar Command battleship 0.00 0.99
Legend Dreadnought 0.00 0.99
Defence Monitor Escort 13.86 0.83
Orbital Weapons Platform Defence 243.22 35.97
Heavy Orbital Weapons Platform Defence 140.91 21.04
Defence Station Defence 10.68 82.64
Ramilies Starfort Defence 0.19 25.21
Guardian Fighter 8,861.67 14,130.04
Wraith Stealth Fighter 2,174.45 11,365.49
Dragon Bomber 5,907.78 9,420.03
Assassin Stealth Bomber 826.24 6,033.54


The initial attacks failed horribly in the face of the Nomad Cities, tight formation, advanced point defences and powerful guns, making both attack boats and boarding actions ineffective. However soon enough Atlas began to use close flying escorts to take out sections of point defences, allowing boarding actions to begin. Within a dozen hours several sections of three different Nomad Cities had been claimed as beachheads by the attacking force, and Atlas had started to shuttle over its elites en mass to expand the beachheads. Then Champion Surt unleashed his next surprise as the cities of Muspelheim erected a thin, permeable barrier between themselves and belched masses of superheated plasma into this region. The barriers kept the plasma contained, allowing it to quickly heat up the region past the point where the lighter armour of attack craft could hold, and to the point where the thin skinned escorts started to take damage. This killed entire divisions of Dark Mechanicus Battle Congregations and an army of Skitrii, along with tens of thousands of psykers as well as pretty much cutting off the forces that had established beachheads from reinforcements, allowing them to be quickly crushed by elite strike forces. Even more importantly it brought time by forcing Atlas to wait until the Nomad Cities supplies of plasma were depleted before pressing the attack. This took three days, time in which both sides conducted basic repairs and prepared themselves for the next clash.
T=14:00:00-18:00:00
High General: Chapter Master Julius
Generals:
Champion Surt, Admiral Freyr
Heroes: Master of Sanctity Horatius, Grandsmaster Aria, Jane Oakheart, Jacob Oakheart
Elites: 29 Regiments of Fire Giants, Nulls and Voids, 37 Varangian Guard Battle Companies
Regulars: Black Irons, 3 Helguard Corps, 17 Helltrooper Corps, 38 Power Armored Grenadiers Corps, 5.5 Guard Armies, 9 PDF Armies
Militia: 86 Militia Siege Infantry Armies
Psykers: 3 Primaris Execution Force, 2 Alpha Psykers, 43 Psyker Choirs, 40 Battle Psyker Brigades
Fleet: Wrath of Bjorn, Sword of Sutur, Fólkvangr, 12 Armoured Battleships, 18 Grand Cruiser Squadrons, 12 Heavy Cruiser Squadrons, 0.3 Escort Cruiser Squadrons, 0.2 Frigate Flotillas, 11 Nomad Cities (above Ramilies Starfort), 9 Orbital Cities (Ramilies Starfort), 83 Defence Station, 21 Heavy Weapons platforms, 36 Weapons Platforms, 0.25 Defence Cruiser Squadrons, 0.02 Defence Monitor Flotillas,
Allies: 2 Eldar Seer Councils
Reinforcements due to begin arriving at T=29:00:00
High General: Fabricator-Locum of Atlas. Slave of the Abomination.
Heroes:
13 Dark Magos, 2 Lord Sorcerers, 14 Chaos Lords
Elites: 17 Chaos Space Marine Warbands, 100 Titans, 1 Court of Knight-Titans
Regulars: 1 Battle Congregation Corps, 95 Skitarii Armies
Psykers: 2,600 Sorcerers, 280 Chaos Psyker Choirs, 24 Chaos Psyker Brigades
Fleet: 29 Battleships (19 daemon), 41 Grand Cruiser Squadrons (22 daemon), 22 Heavy Cruiser Squadrons (14 daemon), 19 Battlecruiser Squadrons (7 daemon), 1.25 Cruiser Squadrons (0.25 daemon), 5 Light Cruiser Squadrons, 174 Frigate Flotillas, 33 Destroyer Flotillas, 70 Raider Flotillas

The battle over Asgard began with a massed torpedo volley at long range coordinated with a sensor disrupting strike by your Psykers and the Eldar Seers, quickly followed by a rapid thrust by your fast ships led by the ancient Hypercarrier In Dying Light. The initial disruption and massed torpedo volley were devastating, destroying entire task forces who had yet to bring their point defense sensors back online and scattering the carefully arranged formations as ships independently went into evasive maneuvers. This left them out of position to deal with your fast ships, who had closed under the cover of the sensor disruption and the chaos of the torpedoes and wiped out another dozen task forces from the Chrone Fleets flanks. To finish the initial strike you had the remaining heavy warships, which had started accelerating as soon as it was made clear just how effective the sensor disruption was crush the Chaotic Vanguard, leaving only the solid core of Chron's Fleet and a few scattered survivors alive. This left what remained of Chron's Fleet, consisting mostly of the luckiest and toughest warships, facing superior numbers of faster, more powerful and better led enemies. Realizing the futility of their position their commander ordered an emergency Warp jump to escape, an act that claimed almost a third of the remaining ships.
T=13:08:00-13:14:00
psyker Disruption d100=100+40(quality)+50(Eldar)+5(omake)=195: Critical Success double effect
Chaos Defence d100=30+80(power)+25(deamonships)=135
-30 to Chaos rolls

First Attack
Chrone d100=5+82(skill)+25(psykers)+25(deamonships)+26(martial)+10(numbers)-3-(psychic disruption)-5(Omake)=138
Imperial d100=99+80(skill)+20(Technology)+58(Martial)+10(hyperweights)=267
       
Name Type Loses Remaining
Sword Escort 7,062.36 437.64
Cobra Escort 14,543.63 456.37
Firestorm Escort 3,531.18 218.82
Endeavour Escort Crusier 48.24 11.76
Dauntless Light Cruiser 51.67 8.33
Luna Cruiser 166.16 33.84
Dictator Cruiser 166.16 33.84
Deamon Luna Cruiser 27.86 12.14
Deamon Dictator Cruiser 27.86 12.14
Battlecruiser Battlecruiser 136.82 25.18
Deamon Battlecruiser Battlecruiser 42.86 35.14
Heavy Cruiser Heavy Cruiser 100.37 7.63
Deamon Heavy Cruiser Heavy Cruiser 44.25 7.75
Grand Cruiser Grand Cruiser 28.45 11.55
Deamon Grand Cruiser Grand Cruiser 19.43 20.57
Battleship Battleship 8.39 11.61
Deamon Battleship Battleship 3.68 6.32
Ark Mechanicus Battleship 0.06 0.94
Trasport Trasport 392.71 607.29
Mass Convoyer Trasport 3.39 46.61
Fury Fighter 24,870 35,130
Starhawk Bomber 13,457 29,831
       
Name Type Loses Remaining
Squire Frigate 299.50 525.50
Page Frigate 299.50 525.50
Privateer Raider 361.05 628.95
Solider Destroyer 1,690.64 1,309.36
Legionnaire Destroyer 169.06 130.94
Youxia Escort Cruiser 127.29 112.71
Monk Escort Cruiser 63.65 56.35
Knight Armoured Cruiser 34.84 37.16
Cataphract Armoured Cruiser 23.22 24.78
Kshatriya Armoured Cruiser 15.48 16.52
Samurai Armoured Cruiser 11.61 12.39
Marauder Battlecruiser 9.08 20.92
Disciple Battlecruiser 10.90 25.10
Uhlan Battlecruiser 9.08 20.92
Husser Battlecruiser 10.90 25.10
Teutonic Heavy Cruiser 1.23 10.77
Chevalier Heavy Cruiser 4.92 43.08
Paladin Heavy Cruiser 1.64 14.36
Templar Heavy Cruiser 1.23 10.77
Gurkha Grand Cruiser 0.64 10.36
Scots Grand Cruiser 0.64 10.36
Landsknecht Grand Cruiser 0.64 10.36
Pope Grand Cruiser 0.64 10.36
Hero Battleship 0.08 2.92
Champion Battleship 0.09 2.91
Legate Battleship 0.14 4.86
Martyr Fast Battleship 0.06 1.94
Mongol Fast Battleship 0.20 6.80
Hun Fast Battleship 0.06 1.94
Alexander Command battleship 0.01 0.99
Genghis Command battleship 0.01 0.99
Prophet Dreadnought 0.01 0.99
Defence Monitor Escort 205.52 444.48
Orbital Weapons Platform Defence 360.94 639.06
Heavy Orbital Weapons Platform Defence 67.70 132.30
Defence Station Defence 2.06 37.94
Ramilies Starfort Defence 0.01 0.99
Guardian Fighter 2,804.92 12,195.08
Wraith Stealth Fighter 623.31 7,376.69
Dragon Bomber 1,869.94 8,130.06
Assassin Stealth Bomber 268.80 4,331.20

Emergency Warp Jump d100=60+20(chaos)+10(deamonship)+30(psykers)=120: 30% losses
       
Name Type Loses Remaining
Sword Escort 131 306
Cobra Escort 137 319
Firestorm Escort 66 153
Endeavour Escort Crusier 4 8
Dauntless Light Cruiser 2 6
Luna Cruiser 10 24
Dictator Cruiser 10 24
Deamon Luna Cruiser 2 10
Deamon Dictator Cruiser 2 10
Battlecruiser Battlecruiser 8 18
Deamon Battlecruiser Battlecruiser 7 28
Heavy Cruiser Heavy Cruiser 2 5
Deamon Heavy Cruiser Heavy Cruiser 2 6
Grand Cruiser Grand Cruiser 3 8
Deamon Grand Cruiser Grand Cruiser 4 16
Battleship Battleship 3 8
Deamon Battleship Battleship 1 5
Ark Mechanicus Battleship   5
Trasport Trasport 182 425
Mass Convoyer Trasport 14 33

The Eldar continue to dominate the battle of Hvergelmir, ripping apart the ever less organised fleet with a flurry of rapid hit and run attacks even as the Wraith Legions grind the armies on the ground underfoot, and the Aspect Warriors remove any foes that might be a threat. By the time the Eldar Fleet withdrew the entire center of the Chaos line of battle had been torn away, leaving five hundred escorts and fifty heavy capital ships facing down a far larger Imperial Trust fleet. Unsurprisingly this fleet soon fled, breaking into no less then eight separate factions as it did so. Given their three day lead over your ship the local admiral decided no to pursue, wishing to avoid having his lightest elements torn up by the remaining capital ships. While the battle on the ground is no so decided the Eldar forces, and your own men, have inflicted significant casualties on the forces of Chaos, with the Psykers and heroes in particular suffering heavily.
T=14:20:00-18:08:00
Eldar Kills
1 Battleship
1 Battlecruiser Squadron
30 Cruiser Squadrons
111 Escort Flotillas
158 Attack Craft Flotillas

Turoq Kills
6 Cruiser Squadrons
13 Escort Flotillas
24 Attack Craft Flotillas
High General: None.
Heroes:
1 Lord Sorcerer, 9 Chaos Lords
Elites: 6 Chaos Space Marine Companies, 6 Chaos Space Marine Warbands.
Regulars: 14 Guard Armies
Psykers: 1,600 Sorcerers, 129 Chaos Psyker Choirs, 11 Chaos Psyker Brigades
Fleet: 1 Small Space Hulk, 1 Battleships (1 daemon), 5 Grand Cruiser Squadrons (5 daemon), 9 Heavy Cruiser Squadrons (4 daemon), 4 Frigate Flotillas, 29 Destroyer Flotillas, 22 Raider Flotillas
Eldar High General: Autarch Dalsaar Silverspear.
Eldar Heroes:
20 Senior Exarches, 10 Farseers, Areatha
Elites: 29 Titans, 5 Hosts of Vaul (25 super heavy vehicles each)
Eldar Regulars: 19 Aspect Hosts (10k strong), 4 Ranger Hosts (10k stronh), 25 Wraith Legions (1 million strong) (OP)
Regulars: 1
Helguard Corps, 1 Helltrooper Corps, 8 Avernite PDF Corps, 2 Power Armored Grenadiers Corps, 10 Grenadiers Corps, 7 Guard Armies, 22 PDF Armies
Eldar Psykers: 3 Seer Councils, 32 Warlock Conclaves, 8 Spiritseer Gatherings. Every Eldar.
Psykers: No Human Psykers remaining
Eldar Fleet:
6 Battleships, 20 Ghostship Squadrons (entirely wraith ships with heavy armour and naval D-Cannons), 34 Cruiser Squadrons, 51 Light Cruiser Squadrons, 43 Destroyer Flotillas, 30 Frigate Flotillas (each a match for 2 times their number of human ships in a straight fight, a lot more in harassment)
Fleet: 15 Battleships, 21 Grand Cruiser Squadrons, 66.5 Cruiser Squadrons, 53.5 Escort Flotillas

With the withdrawal of Chron's Fleets, the death of Turoq and the scattering of his fleets only the forces of Atlas still remain a threat. However they have been stalemated for the last few days by Muspelheim's technological tricks, giving them only twenty hours to press the attack before the Eldar Fleets arrive and swing the balance of power against them. To be honest you do not see much that you can do to further influence this campaign, which seems to be pretty much won.

[] Write in actions
 
Last edited:
psyker Disruption d100=100+40(quality)+50(Eldar)+5(omake)=195: Critical Success double effect
Chaos Defence d100=30+80(power)+25(deamonships)=135
-30 to Chaos rolls

First Attack
Chrone d100=5+82(skill)+25(psykers)+25(deamonships)+26(martial)+10(numbers)-3-(psychic disruption)+5(Omake)=148
Imperial d100=99+80(skill)+20(Technology)+58(Martial)+10(hyperweights)=267

They didn't even get to land. What scrubs.
 
They didn't even get to land. What scrubs.

their expert told them the weird boxes where ECM an not to trust their sensors. clearly, they decided to ignore the obviously fake impossly massive spread of torpedoes :V


man, how much you wanna bet there is going to be some good-natured grousing about how they burned the local copies of their STCS for nothing on the surface?
 
Back
Top