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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Shard said:
Do we have an estimate of Headcrusha's Combat Bonus?
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1600s
the +200 is his martial bonus
while it is -50 for commanding he has a trait that improves it massively for himself
inverted_helix said:
Keep in mind that Heroes inherently trump Elites.

Though now I've had an idea.

@Durin Could Ridicully divine Headcrusha's character sheet?

Knowing just what his traits are for would help us a lot, and I've severe doubts that killing him will be as simple as just drowning him in elites considering heroes are the counter to elites. He's almost bound to have a stack of less likely to die traits that haven't even kicked in yet.
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yes he could, it would take a turn though
 
inverted_helix said:
No, they're elites.
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The categories aren't set in stone and we've got 60-odd regiments of them left.

The key to defeating a hero unit is to either put together a concentration of force significantly superior to them (a better hero, a group of near-peers, or a Titan-equivalent) or bogging them down in numbers sufficient such that even though they get killed quickly they do enough attritional damage that the hero dies before it can finish enough of them off.

For force concentration we'd obviously need to go with near-peers, and even then I don't think we'd be able to stack it enough to be enough above him for it to be relatively safe. He's a god damned multiple paragon whose base health even before any bonuses like that would put him solidly in the heavy walker/Knight Titan territory just due to size/Orkishness. That shit is all multiplicative, and that's before any hypothetical hero-killing traits he has (which is actually pretty likely given that his standard mode of operation is to take over Waaghs by killing their Warboss).

And even if force concentration does turn out to be practical, it includes a non-zero chance of one of our irreplaceable combat heroes getting killed. Who are Gaius, Surt, Jacob, Sigurd, Hortarius, Rotbart, and Xavier basically. Whereas the idea I outlined risks something on the order of a few year's production of Last Hunters, another third or so of the Black Irons, and a company or so of Astares—all of whom can be replaced within a decade or so. How long do you think paragon or near-paragon combatants would take to 'replace'—to say nothing of the leadership skills represented there, or the loss of political opportunities/allies the death of some of them would be?
 
Right so I think the plan should be to use the commander idea to try to lure him outside the city. Then we hit him with everything we got Last Hunters, Black Irons, Kinghts, Space Marines, Super Heavys all with vortex and no limit on weapons. Maybe some of our dropships that can take on Titans if we are too close to the city to drop a ship on him.

We have them engage until they have lost either a fifth or quarter of their firepower then withdrawal from combat. Then we drop a ship on him if he is outside. Then we send in our biomancy boosted Heros supported by Terminators, the Governor's Own, the Air Force to bomb him into the ground if we can't drop a ship on him, and the rest of the first force.

Since Headcrusha seems to be resistant to psyker powers use them against the horde to keep them from interfering in our battle.
 
random_npc said:
we probably should have done that on approach. oh well, I don't suppose after we kill him you could show us part of it? there is no in game reason to look at him, but OOC it would be interesting to see a bit of the bus that just hit us.
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We definitely should have. It would make things so much easier. I'm not sure that we shouldn't do it now anyways though. I don't expect him to go down easily, and we could probably stall him for a long time leading him on wild goose chases.

Reynal said:
The categories aren't set in stone and we've got 60-odd regiments of them left.
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If you're going to use terms from the threadmark posts then stick to what the threadmark posts define.

The Black Irons are Elites rather than chaff because they're significantly better than the Helguard and cannot be made in truly large scales. We have one million of them normally but that is still a limited amount compared to the billions of troops being thrown around.

Reynal said:
The key to defeating a hero unit is to either put together a concentration of force significantly superior to them (a better hero, a group of near-peers, or a Titan-equivalent) or bogging them down in numbers sufficient such that even though they get killed quickly they do enough attritional damage that the hero dies before it can finish enough of them off.

For force concentration we'd obviously need to go with near-peers, and even then I don't think we'd be able to stack it enough to be enough above him for it to be relatively safe. He's a god damned multiple paragon whose base health even before any bonuses like that would put him solidly in the heavy walker/Knight Titan territory just due to size/Orkishness. That shit is all multiplicative, and that's before any hypothetical hero-killing traits he has (which is actually pretty likely given that his standard mode of operation is to take over Waaghs by killing their Warboss).

And even if force concentration does turn out to be practical, it includes a non-zero chance of one of our irreplaceable combat heroes getting killed. Who are Gaius, Surt, Jacob, Sigurd, Hortarius, Rotbart, and Xavier basically. Whereas the idea I outlined risks something on the order of a few year's production of Last Hunters, another third or so of the Black Irons, and a company or so of Astares—all of whom can be replaced within a decade or so. How long do you think paragon or near-paragon combatants would take to 'replace'—to say nothing of the leadership skills represented there, or the loss of political opportunities/allies the death of some of them would be?
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You're assuming that his paragon traits and other traits aren't going to make him increasingly difficult to damage as he gets lower. I think that's a very bad assumption. I expect him to plow through all the Black Irons, Astartes, and Last Hunters and still be left standing.

If you want to counter him with chaff then use chaff. We have 15 billion PDF left. It will be far cheaper to replace even tens of millions of them than hundreds of thousands of Black Irons.
 
inverted_helix said:
If you're going to use terms from the threadmark posts then stick to what the threadmark posts define.

The Black Irons are Elites rather than chaff because they're significantly better than the Helguard and cannot be made in truly large scales. We have one million of them normally but that is still a limited amount compared to the billions of troops being thrown around.
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While we cannot expand them to the same degree we have yet to have issues replenishing their numbers and per Durin only about a 10% survival rate is needed to maintain institutional knowledge/bonuses (although that might not apply to a specific unit like them). And the present circumstances of only one major ground combat goal (killing his ass) mean we hardly need to reserve them for something else.

You're assuming that his paragon traits and other traits aren't going to make him increasingly difficult to damage as he gets lower. I think that's a very bad assumption. I expect him to plow through all the Black Irons, Astartes, and Last Hunters and still be left standing.
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And if he has paragon traits like that he'd fucking wreck the hero deathball, leaving us down a large number of impossible to replace heroes rather than down a single elite unit that can probably be re-founded at a penalty, a few hundred of the literally thousands of Astares, and a couple dozen assassins that are ultimately designed to be replaceable.

We work of the information we have, and the worst-case of my approach is far, far better than the worst-case of yours.

If you want to counter him with chaff then use chaff. We have 15 billion PDF left. It will be far cheaper to replace even tens of millions of them than hundreds of thousands of Black Irons.
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Two issues. First, given that in-update neutron weapons were mostly ineffective and it was only the use of Vortex stuff that let the Black Irons do significant damage, I doubt PDF would even be able to do more than delay him. Second, drowning him in blood would be really fucking bad morally and for our reputation—the Black Irons basically want to die, making spending their lives at a relatively poor rate on an important strategic goal far more acceptable than it would be for another force even at comparable numbers, let alone at the ratio/numbers the PDF would be dying at.
 
Reynal said:
And if he has paragon traits like that he'd fucking wreck the hero deathball, leaving us down a large number of impossible to replace heroes rather than down a single elite unit that can probably be re-founded at a penalty, a few hundred of the literally thousands of Astares, and a couple dozen assassins that are ultimately designed to be replaceable.

We work of the information we have, and the worst-case of my approach is far, far better than the worst-case of yours.
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You've been pretty much arguing with someone else the whole time. I haven't ever suggested heroes. So no the worst case in my scenario isn't worse than your worst case.

In my worst case we spend a billion PDF that we can replace more quickly than even the astartes.

Reynal said:
Two issues. First, given that in-update neutron weapons were mostly ineffective and it was only the use of Vortex stuff that let the Black Irons do significant damage, I doubt PDF would even be able to do more than delay him. Second, drowning him in blood would be really fucking bad morally and for our reputation—the Black Irons basically want to die, making spending their lives at a relatively poor rate on an important strategic goal far more acceptable than it would be for another force even at comparable numbers, let alone at the ratio/numbers the PDF would be dying at.
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The neutron weapons being ineffective is irrelevant since PDF don't have neutron weapons. The Black Irons needed vortex grenades to do significant damage but that's with hundreds of thousands. We drown him in a billion PDF and kill him by the death of a billion papercuts.

The Imperium did this sort of thing all the time. Why do we bother having PDF if we're not going to use them in the role they're best suited for? If we're never going to use the PDF we should stop making them and spend the resources on more of the guard forces we actually use.
 
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Reynal said:
Thing is, when I call them elites, their numbers make them high-grade chaff. And the ideal counter for a hero isn't another's hero, unless your hero outclasses them by a significant margin—it's chaff.
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Actually we have seen that the best way to counter hero units is with other hero units as shown with the time Valinor invaded Avernus and our heroes were constantly going up against enemy heroes. Especially since it would reduce casualties on our side and save us a lot of resoureces towards rebuilding everything they destroy.

With Headcrusha though the problem is that he does seem to have traits that reduce psykers powers used directly against him leaving out our other psykers and heroes like Xavier for direct combat support. That said we still have other heroes like Jacob, Sigurd and Horatius. Though we might want to make sure that if they are up against him they all fight him together and never alone after making sure we wittle him down even further with our other more expandable troops.
 
Red Bovine said:
Actually we have seen that the best way to counter hero units is with other hero units as shown with the time Valinor invaded Avernus and our heroes were constantly going up against enemy heroes. Especially since it would reduce casualties on our side and save us a lot of resoureces towards rebuilding everything they destroy.

With Headcrusha though the problem is that he does seem to have traits that reduce psykers powers used directly against him leaving out our other psykers and heroes like Xavier for direct combat support. That said we still have other heroes like Jacob, Sigurd and Horatius. Though we might want to make sure that if they are up against him they all fight him together and never alone after making sure we wittle him down even further with our other more expandable troops.
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In the Valinor invasion we used that tactic because by and large our heroes were some combination of individually superior or had a massive 'type advantage' against a given hero (such as Aria or Jane facing off against a Sorcerer). Neither situation applies now.

Edit: also, hero on hero fights are by nature high risk/high reward situations. Aria came within a hair of dying, for example, but also hit Paragon. While I agree that ganking Headcrusha has a high chance of traits, it also seems like it would have a high chance of deaths,
 
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@Durin
1. Would formations other than the Black Irons suffer moral penalities (or rolls at all) for beeing massacered by Headcrusher?
2. What happens when all Black Irons die that we have on planet? Would a similar formation be refounded or are sufficient numbers on Avernus still?
 
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The Defence of Svartalfheim Part Nine: War in The Void
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    • The Defence of Svartalfheim Part Nine: War in The Void
    T=9:00:00-48:00:00

    As soon as the Orks took control of the orbitals of Svartalfheim Admiral Freyr had the light elements of the fleet begin to harass them. With some assistance from High Grandmaster Ridcully he was able to focus many of his attacks on the Ork flagships on every level, degrading their already poor chain of command. His ships were also able to take out almost all of the Ork Roks and several Space Hulks over the weeks, which will severely assist in the final battle. Five weeks of harassment later the Ork Fleet was in bad condition, missing most of its leaders, almsot out of the Roks it had been using as orbital defences and with the remaining ships rather battered. While Admrial Freyr's harrasment force was not in any better shape the rest of your fleet was in perfect condition.
    T=9:00:00-44:00:00
    Week one
    Imperial Harrasment (1 Dreadnoughts, 2 Command battleship, 30 Battleships, 124 Cruiser Squadrons, 353 Escort Flotillas, 352 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=58+100(skill)+20(Technology)+61(Martial)+20(Ridcully)+30(speed)+25(caution)=314
    Ork Defence (1 Gargantuan Hulk (75,000km),1 Huge Hulk (29,000km) 4 Large Hulks (3,500km,7,500km, 9,800km), 2 Small Space Hulks (690km, 2,000km), 14 Battleships, 77 Kroozer Squadrons, 2,193 Roks, 245 Escort Flotillas, 4,000 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=34+21(skill)+100(Waagh)-3(Martial)-20(Svartalfeim)=132
         
    Ravager Escort 434
    Savage Escort 433
    Brute Escort 456
    Hook Escort 429
    Onslaught Escort 439
    Light Kroozer Escort Crusier 10
    Chase Kroozer Light Cruiser 8
    Kill Kroozer Cruiser 28
    Terror Ship Cruiser 27
    Battlekroozer Heavy Cruiser 16
    Battleship Battleship 1
    Rok Rok 640
    Small Hulk (per 250km3) Hulk 0.5
    Large Hulk (per 1,000km3) Hulk 2.4
    Huge Hulk ( per 10,000km3) Hulk 0.2
    Gargantuan Hulk (per 10,000km3) Hulk 0.4
    Fighter-Bombers Fighter-Bomber 46,504
         
    Name Type Loses
    Privateer Raider 114.52
    Shadow Stealth Destroyer 36.09
    Buccaneer Light Cruiser 5.78
    Adherent Light Cruiser 2.84
    Fog Stealth Light Cruiser 6.35
    Corsair Fast Cruiser 1.16
    Poacher Fast Cruiser 2.30
    Cossack Fast Cruiser 2.70
    Acolyte Fast Cruiser 1.29
    Marauder Battlecruiser 2.74
    Disciple Battlecruiser 2.99
    Uhlan Battlecruiser 2.57
    Husser Battlecruiser 2.99
    Night Stealth Battlecruiser 0.22
    Martyr Fast Battleship 0.01
    Mongol Fast Battleship 0.01
    Hun Fast Battleship 0.01
    Darkness Stealth Battleship 0.00
    Genghis Command battleship 0.00
    Prophet Dreadnought 0.00
    Guardian Fighter 3,160
    Wraith Stealth Fighter  
    Dragon Bomber 1,921
    Assassin Stealth Bomber  

    Week Two
    Imperial Harrasment (1 Dreadnoughts, 2 Command battleship, 30 Battleships, 111 Cruiser Squadrons, 339 Escort Flotillas, 323 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=43+100(skill)+20(Technology)+61(Martial)+20(Ridcully)+30(speed)+25(caution)=299
    Ork Defence (1 Gargantuan Hulk (75,000km),1 Huge Hulk (29,000km) 4 Large Hulks (3,500km,7,500km, 9,800km), 2 Small Space Hulks (690km, 2,000km), 14 Battleships, 65 Kroozer Squadrons, 1,553 Roks, 201 Escort Flotillas, 3,535 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=66+21(skill)+100(Waagh)-7(Martial)-20(Svartalfeim)-5(condition)=155
         
    Name Type Loses
    Ravager Escort 316
    Savage Escort 316
    Brute Escort 341
    Hook Escort 316
    Onslaught Escort 320
    Light Kroozer Escort Crusier 7
    Chase Kroozer Light Cruiser 6
    Kill Kroozer Cruiser 22
    Terror Ship Cruiser 21
    Battlekroozer Heavy Cruiser 12
    Battleship Battleship  
    Rok Rok 422
    Small Hulk (per 250km3) Hulk 0.3
    Large Hulk (per 1,000km3) Hulk 1.8
    Huge Hulk ( per 10,000km3) Hulk 0.1
    Gargantuan Hulk (per 10,000km3) Hulk 0.3
    Fighter-Bombers Fighter-Bomber 33,959
         
    Name Type Loses
    Privateer Raider 92.39
    Shadow Stealth Destroyer 31.93
    Solider Destroyer 1,107.69
    Legionnaire Destroyer 110.61
    Buccaneer Light Cruiser 8.91
    Adherent Light Cruiser 4.37
    Fog Stealth Light Cruiser 10.96
    Corsair Fast Cruiser 2.48
    Poacher Fast Cruiser 4.9
    Cossack Fast Cruiser 5.75
    Acolyte Fast Cruiser 2.75
    Warrior Cruiser 7.81
    Hoplite Cruiser 7.04
    Bishop Cruiser 8.47
    Bolas Cruiser 1.65
    Marauder Battlecruiser 9.69
    Disciple Battlecruiser 10.59
    Uhlan Battlecruiser 9.1
    Husser Battlecruiser 10.59
    Night Stealth Battlecruiser 0.82
    Martyr Fast Battleship 0.09
    Mongol Fast Battleship 0.27
    Hun Fast Battleship 0.1
    Darkness Stealth Battleship 0.01
    Genghis Command battleship 0.034
    Prophet Dreadnought 0.023
    Guardian Fighter 3,457
    Wraith Stealth Fighter  
    Dragon Bomber 2,197

    Week Three
    Imperial Harrasment (1 Dreadnoughts, 2 Command battleship, 30 Battleships, 96 Cruiser Squadrons, 324 Escort Flotillas, 292 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=8+100(skill)+20(Technology)+61(Martial)+20(Ridcully)+30(speed)+25(caution)=264
    Ork Defence (1 Gargantuan Hulk (75,000km),1 Huge Hulk (29,000km) 3 Large Hulks (3,500km,7,500km, 9,800km), 1 Small Space Hulk (2,000km), 13 Battleships, 55 Kroozer Squadrons, 1,131 Roks, 169 Escort Flotillas, 3,195 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=36+21(skill)+100(Waagh)-12(Martial)-20(Svartalfeim)-5(condition)=120
         
    Name Type Loses
    Ravager Escort 294
    Savage Escort 293
    Brute Escort 324
    Hook Escort 295
    Onslaught Escort 297
    Light Kroozer Escort Crusier 6
    Chase Kroozer Light Cruiser 5
    Kill Kroozer Cruiser 21
    Terror Ship Cruiser 21
    Battlekroozer Heavy Cruiser 11
    Battleship Battleship  
    Rok Rok 352
    Small Hulk (per 250km3) Hulk 0.3
    Large Hulk (per 1,000km3) Hulk 1.7
    Huge Hulk ( per 10,000km3) Hulk 0.1
    Gargantuan Hulk (per 10,000km3) Hulk 0.3
    Fighter-Bombers Fighter-Bomber 30,959
         
    Name Type Loses
    Privateer Raider 91.1
    Shadow Stealth Destroyer 33.1
    Solider Destroyer 1,118.59
    Legionnaire Destroyer 111.69
    Buccaneer Light Cruiser 8.72
    Adherent Light Cruiser 4.28
    Fog Stealth Light Cruiser 11.82
    Corsair Fast Cruiser 2.32
    Poacher Fast Cruiser 4.59
    Cossack Fast Cruiser 5.38
    Acolyte Fast Cruiser 2.57
    Warrior Cruiser 7.95
    Hoplite Cruiser 7.17
    Bishop Cruiser 8.62
    Bolas Cruiser 1.68
    Marauder Battlecruiser 9.37
    Disciple Battlecruiser 10.24
    Uhlan Battlecruiser 8.79
    Husser Battlecruiser 10.24
    Night Stealth Battlecruiser 0.89
    Martyr Fast Battleship 0.1
    Mongol Fast Battleship 0.29
    Hun Fast Battleship 0.11
    Darkness Stealth Battleship 0.01
    Genghis Command battleship 0.034
    Prophet Dreadnought 0.023
    Guardian Fighter 3,457
    Wraith Stealth Fighter  
    Dragon Bomber 2,197

    Week Four
    Imperial Harrasment (1 Dreadnoughts, 2 Command battleship, 30 Battleships, 83 Cruiser Squadrons, 310 Escort Flotillas, 264 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=40+100(skill)+20(Technology)+61(Martial)+20(Ridcully)+30(speed)+25(caution)=296
    Ork Defence (1 Gargantuan Hulk (75,000km),1 Huge Hulk (29,000km) 3 Large Hulks (3,500km,7,500km, 9,800km), 1 Small Space Hulk (2,000km), 13 Battleships, 46 Kroozer Squadrons, 779 Roks, 139 Escort Flotillas, 2,886 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=34+21(skill)+100(Waagh)-17(Martial)-20(Svartalfeim)-10(condition)=108
         
    Name Type Loses
    Ravager Escort 334
    Savage Escort 334
    Brute Escort 378
    Hook Escort 339
    Onslaught Escort 338
    Light Kroozer Escort Crusier 7
    Chase Kroozer Light Cruiser 5
    Kill Kroozer Cruiser 26
    Terror Ship Cruiser 26
    Battlekroozer Heavy Cruiser 13
    Battleship Battleship 1
    Rok Rok 358
    Small Hulk (per 250km3) Hulk 0.3
    Large Hulk (per 1,000km3) Hulk 2.1
    Huge Hulk ( per 10,000km3) Hulk 0.2
    Gargantuan Hulk (per 10,000km3) Hulk 0.4
    Fighter-Bombers Fighter-Bomber 37,489
         
    Name Type Loses
    Privateer Raider 53.26
    Shadow Stealth Destroyer 20.28
    Solider Destroyer 666.8
    Legionnaire Destroyer 66.58
    Buccaneer Light Cruiser 5.05
    Adherent Light Cruiser 2.48
    Fog Stealth Light Cruiser 7.62
    Corsair Fast Cruiser 1.28
    Poacher Fast Cruiser 2.52
    Cossack Fast Cruiser 2.96
    Acolyte Fast Cruiser 1.41
    Warrior Cruiser 4.76
    Hoplite Cruiser 4.29
    Bishop Cruiser 5.16
    Bolas Cruiser 1.01
    Marauder Battlecruiser 5.37
    Disciple Battlecruiser 5.87
    Uhlan Battlecruiser 5.04
    Husser Battlecruiser 5.87
    Night Stealth Battlecruiser 0.57
    Martyr Fast Battleship 0.07
    Mongol Fast Battleship 0.2
    Hun Fast Battleship 0.07
    Darkness Stealth Battleship 0.01
    Genghis Command battleship 0.022
    Prophet Dreadnought 0.015
    Guardian Fighter 2,258
    Wraith Stealth Fighter  
    Dragon Bomber 1,290

    Week Five
    Imperial Harrasment (1 Dreadnoughts, 2 Command battleship, 30 Battleships, 75 Cruiser Squadrons, 301 Escort Flotillas, 246 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=8+100(skill)+20(Technology)+61(Martial)+20(Ridcully)+30(speed)+25(caution)=264
    Ork Defence (1 Gargantuan Hulk (75,000km),1 Huge Hulk (29,000km) 2 Large Hulks (3,500km, 9,800km), 1 Small Space Hulk (2,000km), 12 Battleships, 35 Kroozer Squadrons, 421 Roks, 105 Escort Flotillas, 2,511 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=88+21(skill)+75(Waagh)-20(Martial)-20(Svartalfeim)-10(condition)=134
         
    Name Type Loses
    Ravager Escort 200
    Savage Escort 199
    Brute Escort 235
    Hook Escort 205
    Onslaught Escort 202
    Light Kroozer Escort Crusier 4
    Chase Kroozer Light Cruiser 3
    Kill Kroozer Cruiser 17
    Terror Ship Cruiser 17
    Battlekroozer Heavy Cruiser 9
    Battleship Battleship  
    Rok Rok 170
    Small Hulk (per 250km3) Hulk 0.1
    Large Hulk (per 1,000km3) Hulk 1.4
    Huge Hulk ( per 10,000km3) Hulk 0.1
    Gargantuan Hulk (per 10,000km3) Hulk 0.3
    Fighter-Bombers Fighter-Bomber 24,455
         
    Name Type Loses
    Privateer Raider 67.66
    Shadow Stealth Destroyer 26.66
    Solider Destroyer 858.86
    Legionnaire Destroyer 85.76
    Buccaneer Light Cruiser 6.37
    Adherent Light Cruiser 3.13
    Fog Stealth Light Cruiser 10.4
    Corsair Fast Cruiser 1.54
    Poacher Fast Cruiser 3.03
    Cossack Fast Cruiser 3.56
    Acolyte Fast Cruiser 1.7
    Warrior Cruiser 6.09
    Hoplite Cruiser 5.49
    Bishop Cruiser 6.61
    Bolas Cruiser 1.29
    Marauder Battlecruiser 6.61
    Disciple Battlecruiser 7.22
    Uhlan Battlecruiser 6.2
    Husser Battlecruiser 7.22
    Night Stealth Battlecruiser 0.77
    Martyr Fast Battleship 0.1
    Mongol Fast Battleship 0.28
    Hun Fast Battleship 0.1
    Darkness Stealth Battleship 0.01
    Genghis Command battleship 0.029
    Prophet Dreadnought 0.02
    Guardian Fighter 2,890
    Dragon Bomber 1,579

    After five weeks of harassment the Orks picked up Warboss Nughaz and his horde and started to move out of orbit, obviously trying to flee. Admiral Freyr took this as an opportunity to move onto the offensive, and deployed all of the heavy warships that he had been keeping back. The poorly organised Orks battered ships put up little resistance to Admiral Freyr's heavy warships, which were in top condition after weeks of repairs and maintenance by Muspelheim's mobile shipyards. Almost all of the advantages were on Admiral Freyr's side, ranging from numbers to ship quality to leadership. As such it should not be that amazing how one sided the battle was, with the Ork Fleet being utterly annihilated while only claiming a handful of Imperial capital ships.

    T=44:00:00
    Imperial Attack (1 Dreadnought, 1 Command battleship, 112 Battleships, 679 Cruiser Squadrons, 212 Escort Flotillas, 557 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=74+100(skill)+20(Technology)+38(Martial)+20(Ridcully)=242
    Ork Defence (1 Gargantuan Hulk (75,000km),1 Huge Hulk (29,000km) 2 Large Hulks (3,500km, 9,800km), 1 Small Space Hulks (690km, 2,000km), 12 Battleships, 28 Kroozer Squadrons, 251 Roks, 84 Escort Flotillas, 2,266 Attack Craft Flotillas) d100=64+21(skill)+50(Waagh)-27(Martial)-20(Svartalfeim)-30(condition)=58
         
    Name Type Loses
    Ravager Escort 769
    Savage Escort 767
    Brute Escort 1,055
    Hook Escort 825
    Onslaught Escort 778
    Light Kroozer Escort Crusier 9
    Chase Kroozer Light Cruiser 5
    Kill Kroozer Cruiser 56
    Terror Ship Cruiser 54
    Battlekroozer Heavy Cruiser 55
    Battleship Battleship 12
    Rok Rok 251
    Small Hulk (per 250km3) Hulk 0.5
    Large Hulk (per 1,000km3) Hulk 11.5
    Huge Hulk ( per 10,000km3) Hulk 1.3
    Gargantuan Hulk (per 10,000km3) Hulk 5.3
    Fighter-Bombers Fighter-Bomber 226,634
         
    Name Type Loses
    Squire Frigate 157.65
    Page Frigate 162.93
    Youxia Escort Cruiser 13.55
    Monk Escort Cruiser 8.36
    Castle Defence Cruiser 0.21
    Knight Armoured Cruiser 3.28
    Cataphract Armoured Cruiser 2.16
    Kshatriya Armoured Cruiser 1.54
    Samurai Armoured Cruiser 1.18
    Praetorian Cruiser 1.54
    Teutonic Heavy Cruiser 1.00
    Chevalier Heavy Cruiser 6.32
    Paladin Heavy Cruiser 1.46
    Templar Heavy Cruiser 1.12
    Gurkha Grand Cruiser 0.20
    Scots Grand Cruiser 0.20
    Landsknecht Grand Cruiser 0.23
    Pope Grand Cruiser 0.22
    Hero Battleship 0.01
    Champion Battleship 0.03
    Legate Battleship 0.03
    Berserker Battleship 0.01
    Saint Battleship 0.01
    Alexander Command battleship 0.02
    Vajra Command battleship 0.01
    Einherjar Command battleship 0.01
    Legend Dreadnought 0.01
    Defence Monitor Escort 3.98
    Guardian Fighter 1,910
    Wraith Stealth Fighter 433
    Dragon Bomber 554
    Assassin Stealth Bomber 172

    Currently Headcrusha's Horde has been reduced to under half of its numbers, though those that remain are its more dangerous elements. As things stand you should be able to finish them off within a few weeks, at the cost of maybe a division of your best, and most expensive, troops. You should be able to improve on this by taking advantage of your newly gained orbital dominance. Headcrusha himself is a greater threat, as he is currently around a third of the way though killing the Black Irons and shows no sign of slowing down. While the Black Irons may be able to finish him off not without suffering near total losses, and using up an obscene number of Vortex Grenades.

    [] Defensive Stance- Relying entirely on the strength of Khazad-dum's walls would result in a slow and grueling battle where Headcrusha himself will be able to inflict a worrying amount of damage. However the rest of the Ork forces will be highly ineffective against dug in soldiers.
    [] Balanced Stance- By using a mix of dug in forces, raids and sallies you would be able to greatly speed up the battle without risking to much of your forces . -Currently selected
    [] Agressive Stance- By using the defences of Khazad-dum as an base of operations and anvil you could launch a highly aggressive campaign, using surgical strike by elite forces to inflict crippling damage to Headcrushas horde. This should allow you to quickly remove Headcrusha's aces, at the cost of high casualties.
    [] Write in stance-
    [] Deploy the Last Hunters against Headcrusha- The Last Hunters equipped with the most deadly poisons of the Nyenye should be able to inflict some major wounds on Headcrusha, and may even be able to kill him.
    [] Kill Headcrusha with heroes [write in]- Headcrusha is severely wounded and could probably be finished off by a strike team of your best combat heroes. You should be careful about deploying psykers however, he seems to be very resistant to psykers.
    [] Write in Headcrusha response-
    Air
    []None- Your air forces have suffered enough losses.
    [] Low- Continue as things are, using fighters in order to cover your ground forces. - Currently selected
    [] Medium- Have your fighters move to seize control of the skies from the remaining Ork Fighter-Bombers. -
    [] High- have your airforce participate in the defeat of Headcrushas personal horde. Heavy losses are expected but the addition of another field of attack could prove valuable in this battle.
    [] Write in air

    Orbital (can only choose one)
    [] Deploy your Descents- The Decent Destroyer is designed to lay waste to armies after descending to the lower atmosphere, use them. This will also be a major benefit for your air forces as the Decents formidable AA is brought onto the field of battle.
    [] Lance Strikes- You could inflict major damage to Headcrusha's heavy assets such as his gargents by using your warships lances, though there is a risk of friendly fire.
    [] Write in Orbital

    can choose multiple options, the more options are chosen the weaker each options effects will be.
    note that due to songweaving all choirs are also to preform all purposes, though they are best at their specialty

    [] Air Defence- Your Pyromancers and Teleknetics could turn their attention to taking out the Orks aircraft.
    [] Psyker Support [Target] - Your Diviners, Telepaths and Biomancers could support your ground and air forces, improving their impact and preserving their lives.
    [] Scry and Fry [Target]- Your Diviners could work with your other psykers to locate the most dangerous foes and take them out.
    [] Write in

    Laying Siege
    Warlord Headcrusha's Horde- 7.91 billion Orks, 403 Gargents, Headcrusha. largest numbers of Nobz.

    Fleeing
    Total - 18.9 billion Orks, 430 Gargents
    Warboss Eadwhacka's Horde - 8 million Orks, 29 Gargents
    Warboss Wildfang's Horde -1.34 billion Orks, 8 Gargents, entirely speed freaks
    Warboss Scalpchoppa's Horde - 749 million Orks, large numbers of wierdboyz
    Warboss Facesnappa's Horde - 139 million Orks, 21 Gargents, large numbers of kommandos, large numbers of nobs
    Warboss Slaystampa's Horde - 886 million Orks, 17 Gargents
    Warboss Warrippah's Horde - 1.09 billion Orks, 46 Gargents, large quantities of armour
    16 lesser warbosses - average of 57 million Orks, 5 Gargents,
    16 lesser warbosses - average of 146 million Orks, 3 Gargents,
    11 lesser warbosses - average of 161 million Orks, 3 Gargents,
    38 lesser warbosses - average of 181 million Orks, 3 Gargents,
    8 lesser warbosses - average of 354 million Orks, 3 Gargents,
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Portec said:
    @Durin
    1. Would formations other than the Black Irons suffer moral penalities (or rolls at all) for beeing massacered by Headcrusher?
    2. What happens when all Black Irons die that we have on planet? Would a similar formation be refounded or are sufficient numbers on Avernus still?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    1. yes
    2. you would have to refound them with minuses
     
    [] Balanced Stance- By using a mix of dug in forces, raids and sallies you would be able to greatly speed up the battle without risking to much of your forces . -Currently selected
    [] Deploy the Last Hunters against Headcrusha- The Last Hunters equipped with the most deadly poisons of the Nyenye should be able to inflict some major wounds on Headcrusha, and may even be able to kill him.
    [] High- have your airforce participate in the defeat of Headcrushas personal horde. Heavy losses are expected but the addition of another field of attack could prove valuable in this battle.
    [] Deploy your Descents- The Decent Destroyer is designed to lay waste to armies after descending to the lower atmosphere, use them. This will also be a major benefit for your air forces as the Decents formidable AA is brought onto the field of battle.
    [] Psyker Support [Target] - Your Diviners, Telepaths and Biomancers could support your ground and air forces, improving their impact and preserving their lives.
    [] Scry and Fry [Target]- Your Diviners could work with your other psykers to locate the most dangerous foes and take them out.

    I'm thinking something like this, I wanted to throw a giant mass of hero's at Headcrusher but he's probably layered in dueling specific traits.
    Edit: Probably want to do that distraction plan as well, Durin said it would help.
     
    Last edited:
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