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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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HanEmpire said:
I'm pretty sure the Imperial Aquila is the Abomination's symbol.
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When this stuff was first being talked about, the Aquila was stated to only potentially be corrupted by the Abomination. It's a symbol that's now definitely associated with it, but there's been no information saying that it's its primary symbol.
 
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Not As Planned
  • Sidestory
    • Not As Planned

    Lord General Herrion utterly loathed whoever it was that was commanding these Avernite forces. It had to be one of those deranged Eldar Farseers, it was the only solution that made any blasted sense at all. Led by their Daemon-Saint, of course they would consort we Xenos. Of course they would.

    Yes. It perfectly explained their succeess in their harassment on space and land.

    But no amount of Xeno witchcraft could save them now. He could see, honed through decades of war, the opening. The soldiers on that point on the wall, earlier weakened by his psykers, falling back. His agents, acting to open it up, a mass of men held in balance between their breaking points, tilted to break - And he had just the card to finish it.

    "Deploy the 3rd Circle Archangyl," Herrion stated, marking the map as he spoke, "at that point here, along with the rest of them. Follow it up with the Titans, and the troops after they've forced a breach." In his mind's eye, he visualized his opponent's responce. "Have the psykers prepared to crush their responce."

    And then it all went wrong.

    As he anticipated, the 3rd Circle smote the men and broke them, sending them fleeing (in painfully good order) from the outer walls. Reinforced by Daemons, the Titans were prepared to smash open a breach to allow the rest of his men in, whatever anti-Titan forces they had being occupied with the 3rd Circle. And then, there was rumbling.

    He felt a terrible preomination as the battlefield seem to pause for a moment.

    A dozen giant, no, massive volcanic worms smashed up from beneath the ground, right in the middle of his forces. The 3rd Circle was now painfully separated from his main force, and he barked orders to his men, desperately (but concealing it) trying to take down the monstrous creatures before he found himself lacking either the Angyl or the Army.

    Bloody.

    Xenos.
     
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  • Sidestory
    • @Shard, maybe we should have Ridcully rest? If they start summoning the First Circle Archangyl we'll want to have its True Name on hand so the Grey Knights can banish it before it does too much damage. Given the time constraints we're operating on and how it'll take multiple turns to get the True Name, we'll need to have him rest this turn if we want to succeed in this. Here's the two timelines assuming it'll take 3 turns to get the True Name (Third Circle is 2 turns).
    0. Ridcully helps with the bluff at exhaustion level 1. Ridcully is now exhaustion level 2.
    1. He rests. Exhaustion level 0. First Circle is 0-2 turns away from summoning.
    2. Ridcully is 1/3 of the way to getting the True name. Exhaustion level 1. First Circle is 0-1 turn away from summoning.
    3. Ridcully is 2/3 of the way to getting the True name. Exhaustion level 2. First Circle has been summoned by now for certain.
    4. Ridcully is 3/3 of the way to getting the True name. Exhaustion level 3. First Circle is banished.

    0. Ridcully rests. Ridcully is now at exhaustion level 0.
    1. Ridcully is 1/3 of the way to getting the True name. Exhaustion level 1. First Circle is 0-2 turns away from summoning.
    2. Ridcully is 2/3 of the way to getting the True name. Exhaustion level 2. First Circle is 0-1 turn away from summoning.
    3. Ridcully is 3/3 of the way to getting the True name. Exhaustion level 3. First Circle has been summoned by now for certain. First Circle is banished.

    In the first timeline, the First Circle can be in the Materium for up to 3 full turns without being banished and a guarantee of 1 full turn without banishment. In the second timeline, the First Circle can only be in the Materium for up to 2 full turns with no guarantee of having a full turn without banishment. Snowball theory and the possibility of the Archangyl not having ANY full turn on the Materium without banishment lead us to conclude that we should have him rest this turn. We have Valinor's plans, Frederick is Paragon Martial, and he'll still have the help of a full divination choir. Ridcully won't be necessary for that. What Ridcully is necessary for is getting the First Circle's name as no one else can do that.

    Note: Daemonologists can slow down the ritual, but to what extent they'll be successful is unknown. They might only slow it down for one turn, which in either case would still give the Archangyl the possibility of a full turn without being banished. I could also be lowballing the time it'll take to get the name. It could take longer, maybe 4 or 5 turns total. Given that the on the 3rd turn he'll already be getting the penalty of exhaustion level 2 - which is significant - he'd have to take a turn's rest before doing that final 1-2 turns of scrying. Reducing the time it'll take to get the True Name by even a single turn could easily be crucial, especially when you consider the times in this quest when very important rolls succeeded by a margin of only 1 or even 0.
     
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    You're planning too far ahead, Andres.

    For all we know, we critfail the feint, and the planning is moot.
     
    Shard said:
    You're planning too far ahead, Andres.

    For all we know, we critfail the feint, and the planning is moot.
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    A critfail will get rerolled regardless of if Ridcully involves himself or not. Including Ridcully is only worth it if you think our roll+bonuses won't be enough to overcome the DC, and considering the bonuses already stacked on it you maybe shouldn't think that.

    And I am not planning too far ahead. I am planning exactly as far ahead as is necessary in order to get the First Circle's True Name and use it against it. I explained my reasoning in detail. If you disagree with my conclusion, bring forward your own reasoning.
     
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    Andres110 said:
    A critfail will get rerolled regardless of if Ridcully involves himself or not. Including Ridcully is only worth it if you think our roll+bonuses won't be enough to overcome the DC, and considering the bonuses already stacked on it you shouldn't think that.

    And I am not planning too far ahead. I am planning exactly as far ahead as is necessary in order to get the First Circle's True Name and use it against it. I explained my reasoning. If you disagree with my conclusion, bring forward your own reasoning.
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    Their plan for 3rd circle Archangyl death is to summon the 1st Circle, or battlebarge smashing if insufficient progress is made. Judging from events, we can be pretty sure that it'll be the latter option being used. The walls are practically pristine at the moment, -9 to defenses aside.

    Second, Avernus.

    Third, and probably most importantly, Ridcully is not guaranteed to get the 1st Circle's True Name by any means at all. We might well want him on something else.

    Fourth, I am in fact not completely confident that our roll+bonuses is enough to reliably overcome the DC to draw the Archangyl in. Besides which, a higher roll generally provides better results, such as bonii or better timing (Closer timing to Magma Wyrm attack, for example.) We do not want the crux of the plan, assassinating the 3rd Circle, to be botched.

    Fifth, Ridcully only has a 50-50 chance of rerolling critical fails. He offers two rerolls a round.. if he is directly involved. Those rerolls could easily mean the difference between victory, phyrric victory and defeat. Degree of victory is important. Whenever possible at all we want to have enough forces at hand to achieve overkill.
     
    @Durin

    1. How long will it take for Ridcully to get the First Circle's True Name?
    2. Have you been accounting for the Strong Will population trait in the psyker rolls?
    3. Is our Dark Age artillery sufficient to take down the theatre shields protecting the psykers they have on the ground?
    4. What will determine whether they go in with the First Circle or Battlebarge?
    5. Have you read Renegade Sorceress Quest?

    Shard said:
    Their plan for 3rd circle Archangyl death is to summon the 1st Circle, or battlebarge smashing if insufficient progress is made. Judging from events, we can be pretty sure that it'll be the latter option being used. The walls are practically pristine at the moment, -9 to defenses aside.

    Second, Avernus.

    Third, and probably most importantly, Ridcully is not guaranteed to get the 1st Circle's True Name by any means at all. We might well want him on something else.

    Fourth, I am in fact not completely confident that our roll+bonuses is enough to reliably overcome the DC to draw the Archangyl in. Besides which, a higher roll generally provides better results, such as bonii or better timing (Closer timing to Magma Wyrm attack, for example.) We do not want the crux of the plan, assassinating the 3rd Circle, to be botched.

    Fifth, Ridcully only has a 50-50 chance of rerolling critical fails. He offers two rerolls a round.. if he is directly involved. Those rerolls could easily mean the difference between victory, phyrric victory and defeat. Degree of victory is important. Whenever possible at all we want to have enough forces at hand to achieve overkill.
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    Thank you for giving me your reasoning.
     
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    When I finish the Compilation... well, actually most of these warturn questions wouldn't be in the compilation.
     
    Doomed Wombat said:
    I think you asked this before and it was something like several turns worth of actions.

    Several turn turns not combat turns.
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    I asked him how long it would take to get the names of the Greater Daemons they wanted to summon, not specifically the First Circle. When I narrowed it to just one Greater Daemon - the Third Circle - he said it was 2.

    He said turns, not turn turns. Every time he has talked about how many turns a thing will take in the context of this war, he was talking about war turns, so there is no reason to believe he wasn't talking about war turns that time.
     
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    I'm kind of surprised that people even want to immediately eliminate the third circle this way instead of dragging things out and bleeding them more before they switch to desperation tactics. Letting the war drag on and bleeding them out slowly until they can't summon the first circle for instance. The first circle plus a large army is going to be much more dangerous than the current state.
     
    inverted_helix said:
    I'm kind of surprised that people even want to immediately eliminate the third circle this way instead of dragging things out and bleeding them more before they switch to desperation tactics. Letting the war drag on and bleeding them out slowly until they can't summon the first circle for instance. The first circle plus a large army is going to be much more dangerous than the current state.
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    We don't have enough ammunition. To prosecute a long war we would've had to have done the munition stores action.
     
    Andres110 said:
    We don't have enough ammunition. To prosecute a long war we would've had to have done the munition stores action.
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    Why would we run out of ammunition faster than them? We have all the warehouses and production facilities, while they are shipping theirs in on ships from other star systems. Even if we don't have tremendous stores, it has to be better capacity than theirs.
     
    @Shard, we fucked up on Part Seven and we're going to fuck up again this turn unless you change the plan quickly enough. Ridcully's divination can't be detected. If we have him divining something by himself, they won't be able to interfere with the divination. Get rid of the diviner choir assisting him and they won't be able to lessen the effect of the divination through dispelling.
     
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    inverted_helix said:
    Why would we run out of ammunition faster than them? We have all the warehouses and production facilities, while they are shipping theirs in on ships from other star systems. Even if we don't have tremendous stores, it has to be better capacity than theirs.
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    We're not quite at the level where we can sustain our selves via manufacturing on site, especially since we also need materials which needs metal, which needs an open access to the moons.

    Which we don't have.

    At best we can supplement our stores, but that's about it right now. Now if we were allowed to...ah never mind we're getting to the point. Slowly, but surely.

    As for them, well I'd imagine they're bringing as much ammo as they can and when their guns run out they can just use them as sacrifices for more Angyels.
     
    Andres110 said:
    Bring it up with Durin if you want.


    @Shard, we fucked up on Part Seven and we're going to fuck up again this turn unless you change the plan quickly enough. Ridcully's divination can't be detected. If we have him divining something by himself, they won't be able to interfere with the divination. Get rid of the diviner choir assisting him and they won't be able to lessen the effect of the divination through dispelling.
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    1. Part Seven was not a fuckup. Literally the only bad thing that happened was them succeeding a morale roll that I don't think any of use expected.
    2. They did not have Diviners on counter-divining Ridcully. They had Diviners supporting their own forces, and our Diviners supporting our forces.
    3. I have no idea how you can conclude that Ridcully is worsened by having a Diviner Choir with him.
     
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    Shard said:
    1. Part Seven was not a fuckup. Literally the only bad thing that happened was them succeeding a morale roll that I don't think any of use expected.
    2. They did not have Diviners on counter-divining Ridcully. They had Diviners supporting their own forces, and our Diviners supporting our forces.
    3. I have no idea how you can conclude that Ridcully is worsened by having a Diviner Choir with him.
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    1. Didn't say it was a fuckup, just that we fucked up in it. If you get 99 out of 100 questions right in an exam, you didn't fuck up the exam, but you did fuck up in the exam, specifically by fucking up one of the questions.
    2. Oh yeah, you're right.
    3. Time for some math. (Numbers are inaccurate but explain how Ridcully could theoretically be better off without a choir.)

    Let's say Ridcully has +159 (Ridcully), +75 (power), and +15 (paragon of divination). Diviner choir has +323 (power). 323 beats 249.
    Now let's add in enemy opposition from dispellers. +225 (power), +75 (lords), +30 (Abomination), for a total of +330.
    Ridcully alone is +249 versus 0. 249-0 = roll of 249.
    Ridcully+choir is (323+249)=572 versus 330. 572-330 = roll of 242.

    Ridcully without a choir is better than Ridcully with a choir by 7 points. On top of getting a better quality divination by not pairing the choir to him, we also get an additional divination since we now have a spare choir.

    This does of course predicate on the idea that the enemy choir is a dispeller choir rather than a rival diviner choir.
     
    Your mathematics and logic has too many assumptions made for me to consider w.r.t the plan.

    Also, voting ended like, an hour ago.
     
    Andres110 said:
    1. Didn't say it was a fuckup, just that we fucked up in it. If you get 99 out of 100 questions right in an exam, you didn't fuck up the exam, but you did fuck up in the exam, specifically by fucking up one of the questions.
    2. Oh yeah, you're right.
    3. Time for some math. (Numbers are inaccurate but explain how Ridcully could theoretically be better off without a choir.)

    Let's say Ridcully has +159 (Ridcully), +75 (power), and +15 (paragon of divination). Diviner choir has +323 (power). 323 beats 249.
    Now let's add in enemy opposition from dispellers. +225 (power), +75 (lords), +30 (Abomination), for a total of +330.
    Ridcully alone is +249 versus 0. 249-0 = roll of 249.
    Ridcully+choir is (323+249)=572 versus 330. 572-330 = roll of 242.

    Ridcully without a choir is better than Ridcully with a choir by 7 points. On top of getting a better quality divination by not pairing the choir to him, we also get an additional divination since we now have a spare choir.

    This does of course predicate on the idea that the enemy choir is a dispeller choir rather than a rival diviner choir.
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    except the roll modifies the power of the effect, which is based on power
     
    Durin said:
    except the roll modifies the power of the effect, which is based on power
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    If this is the case, and correct me if I'm wrong, does that mean two diviner choirs together have a bigger effect than two diviner choirs apart? Here's how I'm interpreting what you just said.
    Diviner choir 1. Power 100. Bonus to roll from power gives +10%. Effect: 110.
    Diviner choir 2. Power 100. Bonus to roll from power gives +10%. Effect: 110.
    Total effect: 220.

    Diviner choir 1+2. Power 200. Bonus to roll from power gives +20%. Effect: 240.
    Total effect: 240.
     
    The psyker mechanics are sufficiently obscure to me that I know not of how to mechanically smash them to pieces.

    EDIT: Vote Tally.
    Adhoc vote count started by Shard on Jan 7, 2018 at 7:14 AM, finished with 392 posts and 18 votes.
    • [X] Plan Giant Wyrm Trap
      -[X] General Defence
      --[X] Rely entirely on the regulars to hold the outer defences - This will make the walls incredible hard targets to take but will increase the amount of attrition that the heart of your combat power takes .
      --[X] Deploy half your elites on the wall and keep half in reserve. -This will leave you with a significant reserve force of elites while reinforcing the walls.
      -[X] Titan Defence
      --[X] Deploy all of your anti Titan forces against enemy Titans- This gives you a far better chance of stopping any Titan attack at the cost of risking all of your anti-Titan forces, while half of their Titans have yet to arrive.
      -[X] Angylic Host
      --[X] Deploy (Lulana, Jacob, Jane, Primaris Aria, 2 Primaris Executioner Forces, Last Hunters) to combat Angyl Attacks.
      --[X] reserve three quarters of your Battle Psykers for dealing with Angyls - This makes sure that you do not fully strip your main defences of psyker support.
      --[X] keep back half of the Hunters to deal with infiltrators
      -[X] Psykers
      --[X] Tamia and 1st Telepathy Choir on countertelepathy.
      --[X] 2nd Telepathy Choir to Hunt for Infiltrators.
      --[X] Ridcully and 1st Divination Choir to assist Rotbart with the feint. If feint successful, assist in killing the 3rd Circle ASAP.
      --[X] 2nd Divination Choir to assist the Void Battle.
      --[X] Sirens to Dominate target Officers selected by Diviners earlier. Time the Dominate to occur at the same time the Magma Wyrm attack happens. (If the 3rd Circle Angyl is committed, prepare to demoralize the Abomination forces, timing it when the 3rd Circle is slain.)
      --[X] Trolls to fortify Walls.
      --[X] 2nd Telekinetic Choir to defend against Bombardment.
      --[X] 1st and 2nd Biomancer Choirs to buff the Magma Wyrms. (If Feint Successful, 2nd Biomancer Choir will buff the forces hitting the Angyl.)
      --[X] 1st Daemonology Choir on reserve to counter Angyl Attacks (Focus on the 3rd Angyl if it is committed).
      --[X] 2nd Daemonology Choir on general Dispelling duty.
      --[X] Xavier and 1st Pyromancer Choir on reserve to Fry Abomination Aces attacking the Walls. (If the 3rd Circle is committed, fry the 3rd Circle Angyl.)
      --[X] 2nd Pyromancer, 1st Telekinetic to rest. (If 3rd Circle is Committed, 2nd Pyromancer will join the 1st Pyromancer in frying the 3rd Circle Angyl.)
      -[X] Space
      --[X] Harass the reinforcement fleet- This will cause some damage to the reinforcement fleet at the cost of some of your surviving light elements
      -[X] Other
      --[X] Lend Jacob the Black Crystal Sword.
      --[X] Lend Tamia the Black Crystal Necklace.
      --[X] Lend Jane the Black Crystal Crown.
      --[X] Fire LEF Deathstrikes on the Abomination Main Army during the Magma Wyrm attack.
      --[X] Fire Deathstrikes at Abomination psykers if the Void Shields are taken down by the Magma Wyrm attack.
      --[X] Rotbart will, with Ridcully's help, feign an opening such that the Abomination will commit it's 3rd Circle Angyl to an attack on the walls. Preferably, the 3rd Circle will be committed to the walls just before the Magma Wyrm attack, allowing an opportunity to attack and kill the 3rd Circle Angyl.
      ---[X] If successful, hit the 3rd Circle Angyl with maximum force to kill it ASAP while it's unsupported.
      [X] Plan Opportune Strike
      -[X] Have an even split of regulars and militia hold the outer defences - This is a balance between the other two options .
      -[X]Deploy half your elites on the wall and keep half in reserve. - This will leave you with a significant reserve force of elites while reinforcing the walls.
      -[X]Deploy all of your anti Titan forces against enemy Titans- This gives you a far better chance of stopping any Titan attack at the cost of risking all of your anti-Titan forces, while half of their Titans have yet to arrive.
      -[X] Deploy Aria, Jane, Jacob, Lulana to combat any Angyl attacks- The Angyls are the greatest threat that the Abomination forces have plans to deploy and as such heroes would have the greatest impact against them, and be at the most risk
      -[X] reserve three quarters of your Battle Psykers for dealing with Angyls - This makes sure that you do not fully strip your main defences of psyker support.
      -[X] keep back half of the Hunters to deal with infiltrators- a balance between the other two options
      -[X] Deploy 1 Primaris Execution Squad to Deal with any Angyl attacks
      -[X] If the Titans make are making an assualt on the wall, assign Lulana to dispelling or suppress their projectile protection. This supersedes her anti-Angyl role for the duration it proves necessary.
      -[X] 1st and 2nd Biomancy Choirs are assigned to buff the Magma Wyrm for its attack
      -[X] Ridcully, 1st Divination Choir, Xavier, and 1st Pyromancy Choir are assigned to Scry and Fry, exploiting the chaos of the Magma Wyrm attack to hopefully catch some high value target out of warding as well as punching through.
      -[X] 2nd Divination Choir to provide Divinatory Support to the harassment fleet.
      -[X] 2nd Telekinetic Choir to create a Telekinetic shield
      -[X] Troll Geomancers to strengthen wall
      -[X] 1st Daemonology Choir to counter Abomination power use
      -[X] 2nd Telepathy Choir to counter Abomination Telepathy usage
      -[X] Tamia, 1st Telepathy Choir, and Sirens to dominate the divined targets and cause them to attack, timed to take advantage of and add to the general chaos of the Magma Wyrm attack.
      -[X] 2nd Daemonology Choir to help Lulana in dispelling the projectile protections on the attacking Titans if necessary, but otherwise to rest.
      -[X] Harass the reinforcement fleet- This will cause some damage to the reinforcement fleet at the cost of some of your surviving light elements
      -[X] Lend Jacob the Black Crystal Sword and Tamia the necklace.
      -[X] if the Magma Wyrm attack knocks down the shielding of the appropriate area, launch 5% of our Deathstrike Missiles at the enemy psykers.
      [X] Plan Sally time
      [X] Plan Void Wyrm(s) FTW
      -[X] General Defence
      --[X] Have an even split of regulars and militia hold the outer defences - This is a balance between the other two options .
      --[X] Deploy half your elites on the wall and keep half in reserve. -This will leave you with a significant reserve force of elites while reinforcing the walls.
      -[X] Titan Defence
      --[X] Deploy all of your anti Titan forces against enemy Titans- This gives you a far better chance of stopping any Titan attack at the cost of risking all of your anti-Titan forces, while half of their Titans have yet to arrive.
      -[X] Angylic Host
      --[X] Deploy (Lulana, Jacob, Jane, Primaris Aria, 2 Primaris Executioner Forces) to combat Angyl Attacks.
      --[X] reserve three quarters of your Battle Psykers for dealing with Angyls - This makes sure that you do not fully strip your main defences of psyker support.
      --[X] keep back half of the Hunters to deal with infiltrators
      -[X] Psykers
      --[X] Tamia and 1st Telepathy Choir on countertelepathy.
      --[X] 2nd Telepathy Choir to Hunt for Infiltrators.
      --[X] Ridcully and 1st Divination Choir to assist Void Battle.
      --[X] Sirens to Dominate target Officers selected by Diviners earlier. Time the Dominate to occur at the same time the Magma Wyrm attack happens.
      --[X] Trolls to fortify Walls.
      --[X] 2nd Telekinetic Choir to defend against Bombardment.
      --[X] 1st and 2nd Biomancer Choirs to buff the Magma Wyrms.
      --[X] 1st Daemonology Choir on reserve to blunt Angyl Attacks.
      --[X] 2nd Daemonology Choir on general Dispelling duty.
      --[X] Xavier and 1st Pyromancer Choir on reserve to Fry Abomination Aces attacking the Walls.
      --[X] 2nd Divination, 2nd Pyromancer, 1st Telekinetic, 1st Telepath, Tamia to rest.
      -[X] Space
      --[X] Harass the reinforcement fleet- This will cause some damage to the reinforcement fleet at the cost of some of your surviving light elements
      -[X] Other
      --[X] Lend Jacob the Black Crystal Sword.
      --[X] Fire LEF Deathstrikes on the Abomination Main Army during the Magma Wyrm attack.
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