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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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HanEmpire said:
Just imagine how Avernus will react to tyranids...
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Initially? It would be a hillarious stomp. After a some time? No one would be laughing anymore ;)


edit:
Well, if the assumption that we can hold out was made with the nids harvesting the oceans, then yeah, it`s probably better to change back to option 3. But if not, then the only chance we have is option 1.
 
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@Enjou and everyone,

Let's not panic, panic leads to bad decisions.

The other generals knew that the Tyranids would be using the ocean when they estimated that we would win. We should still go with #3 the safe and sure option, unless Alfheim would be unusable afterwards. If Alfheim will still be able to produce food again in a decade or so after the fight with the Tyranids when using option #3 then we should take it.
 
The estimate by the other generals that we should be able to hold out is based on the assumption that the Tyranids are using the ocean?

Assuming we go #3 route, what is the expected state of Alfheim assuming we are ultimately victorious?
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Yes it is, Alfheim is expected to lose 50% of its farmland
 
Elder Haman said:
@Enjou and everyone,

Let's not panic, panic leads to bad decisions.

The other generals knew that the Tyranids would be using the ocean when they estimated that we would win. We should still go with #3 the safe and sure option, unless Alfheim would be unusable afterwards. If Alfheim will still be able to produce food again in a decade or so after the fight with the Tyranids when using option #3 then we should take it.
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Yeah, gotta agree. But only if they included nids harvesting the oceans when they estimated that we can hold out. So I`ll wait for durin to clarify this before I change back, again.

edit:
Welp, the boss has spoken. Back to option 3 it is then.

[x] 3

Also, @durin, how long do our generals think it will take for us to completely eradicate all tyranids from Alfheim, including from the oceans? Five years? A decade? Longer?
 
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50% isn't quite the best case scenario but it is a better then average scenario
best case is 30%
 
Elder Haman said:
If Alfheim will still be able to produce food again in a decade or so after the fight with the Tyranids when using option #3 then we should take it.
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They have to start producing after 5 years, not a decade. Midgard has a five year food supply stocked up.

durin said:
Five years or more, depending on how many land

Also 50% is on the optimistic side
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Well that's problematic. We'd not only have to change how food production works in the subsector, but we're also going to have years of genestealers trying to get on every transport off the planet. Joy.

This makes the Very Advanced Hydroponics STC extremely valuable to research quickly, so we can help our neighbors our by either becoming a food exporter ourself or by building them on their planets for them.

Additionally, the Medical Diagnostic Pod is probably something else we need to get done quickly - ships, spaceports, and space stations can be equipped with them and crew and passengers can be made to go into them to detect genestealers and prevent their propagation. It can also be made standard procedure for government officials and prospectives to undergo somewhat regular inspection to ensure they haven't been infected, stopping the genestealers from taking positions of power.
 
Would damage to Alfheim's farming output be recoverable, or are we looking at a permanent retardation of crops from Alfheim?
 
[x] 1

I don't actually see how victory is possible if the Tyranids seed the oceans. Either they win now, or they win later
 
Alratan said:
[x] 1

I don't actually see how victory is possible if the Tyranids seed the oceans. Either they win now, or they win later
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Keep in mind that durin does not strictly follow the lore, otherwise we would have been stomped by the necrons. So presumably he nerfed the rate at which the nids can replenish their forces. Massively. And if we choose options 2 or 3 we only need to hold out long enough for the navy to kill hiveships and thus destroying their coordination and making them into mindless animals, basically. After that it`s just a matter of hunting down every nid on land and introducing a bioengineered virus specifically tailored to target the nids into the ocean. At least that is my assumption of how it would be possible for us to win.

But the thing to keep in mind is that our victory is not guaranteed either way, and even if we win, we loose the oceans and at least 50% of farmland. So yeah, pyrrhic victory at it`s finest.
 
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Yes, option three gives you the greatest chance of victory but it will most likely be pyrrhic
 
#2 completely cedes space superiority to the Nids, though. It is basically "destroy 70-80% of enemy fleet and troops, but sacrifice our own fleet"
 
@durin - What would be the expected loss of farmland if plan 1 succeeds? Also, roughly what percentage of space forces could we expect to lose in plans 1 and 2?
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If plan 1 succeeds under 10% of farmland will be lost
Plan 1 could lose you anywhere from 20% to 80% of your space forces
Plan 2 will most likely lose your between 70% and 90% of your Navy
 
@Elder Haman - based on durin's latest response, it seems to me that plan 2 is once again the least viable plan. We have options we can take if Alfheim's farmlands are ruined, but ships are far less easily replaced.
 
Elder Haman said:
What are you referring to here? What is bad about Tiron? I didn't see anything worrisome about Tiron.
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That it is so spread out that one garrison can't cover the space port, the city and the space defenses.

Honestly, given how fast the Tyrannids multiply, is there that much difference in the challenge we face at sea to patrol the whole area hunting Tyrannid spores hidden in whatever cranny?

And given the fluff text combined with what durin has already told us - that wiping out every hive ship only imposes a -20 to all Tyranid rolls - if Tyranids worked like the fluff text AND losing their hive ships was so unimportant (relatively) as it is in this case, there would just be no way we could win. So I suspect durin's Tyranids will be working significantly differently to what people are imagining.

@durin: When you say "X% of farmlands ruined", just how ruined is ruined? Given Imperial technology, it would seem fairly cheap to do brute force ecological engineering (i.e. if the IoM knows what compost is, compost the megatonnes of tyranid corpses to create new soil, if the Tyranids create organic toxins that would interfere with other life, use a bunch of plasma reactors to run furnaces to break the poisons down into their component substances, etc.)

Honestly, plan 3 is still sounding by far the best. But I am not sure, since durin's Tyranids may not be able to use local resources in the silly way fluff text Tyranids can.

And is anyone else considering introducing Avernus life to Alfhiem once their fleet is destroyed? I'm sure our oceans have some sufficiently nasty organisms that would drive the Tyranids out of the seas...

fasquardon
 
@durin: When you say "X% of farmlands ruined", just how ruined is ruined? Given Imperial technology, it would seem fairly cheap to do brute force ecological engineering (i.e. if the IoM knows what compost is, compost the megatonnes of tyranid corpses to create new soil, if the Tyranids create organic toxins that would interfere with other life, use a bunch of plasma reactors to run furnaces to break the poisons down into their component substances, etc.)
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By ruined I mean will take over a decade to restore to full functionality, some of it will take far longer but most can be fixed within twenty years

Also it will provide a -20 to all rolls and prevent them using any sort of tactics, they will repeatably fall for the same tricks
 
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