- Location
- Northern Ireland, UK
I don't know if it canon or fanon but doesn't Angelsteel require Large quantities of Blood Angel Blood to make?
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
That's because we have better DAoT versions of the same.
Or at least they are the same under the Helhiem names.
Fanon, its the usual forgotten methods of production that only the BA remember type stuff.
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If we're dead because we didn't notify them and the Orks ended up ganging up on us then we've failed the Emperor. Our job is to survive until his return, and sometimes that's going to mean extreme and unpalatable measures. And notifying them is all we would do - we don't have to help them in any other way, coordinate with them, or anything of that nature. Just let them take the next few decades to fortify so that the Orks can't take over their worlds too easily, or to attack Ork worlds themselves to weaken them in advance, or whatever. Every world the Orks hold onto is a breeding ground for more Orks, and their growth rate exceeds what the Chaos polities are capable of. Further, the Orks in the area could very well become united under a single Warlord, while the Chaos polities in the area are all not of the Chaos Undivided faction and so are not likely to ever become a united foe. It's far better to have to deal with a bunch of squabbling Chaos polities that hate one another than a united group of super Orks who hold hundreds of planets.
That would be far, far more likely to go wrong than us just notifying the Chaos polities. Those things are likely to end up being corrupted by Chaos just by existing, if Chaos didn't send people to try to seize the STC from us so they could build their own.
Of course, the MOI save us from the Beast but then we deal with the inevitable Chaos caused Fallout. I'm not disagreeing with destroying the thing, just thinking aloud.
Anyways, thoughts on the latest revelations Enjou?
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
ehh, I dunno.
I thought that it was corrupted by proximity to chaos not by existence.
- Location
- United states
So after reading the most recent posts I think we might actually want to warn Chaos. Yes it's chaos but it's also chaos meaning that they would likely be smart enough to realize that it's actually in their best interest to work on fighting the Orks since if they win they would likely be screwed. Think of it as less helping chaos and more setting them up to prepare for the Orks so that they aren't focusing on us and instead on them and hopefully use a lot of resources and failing while taking down enough as many Orks as they can making things way easier for us.
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I wrote a canon omake on the decision to keep vs destroy. The MOI in this verse are basically like the geth in Mass effect, except every unit is a full AI - they link up to increase their processing power for more difficult tasks. This means that if one of them sees a Chaos symbol and gets corrupted a bit, they're going to pass on that memetic corruption to every single MOI they link with, and then those ones will spread it, and so on and so forth. It would only take one cultist or Chaos Psyker to expose one MOI to memetic Chaos bullshit, and then you've got a cascade of corruption that you can't stop except by exterminating the whole lot of them.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Oh that's what you were meant I thought you were talking about the MOI STC that turned up in Gaunt's ghosts.
HanEmpire
Delicious
They developed emotions and souls that are the vectors of Chaos corruption, so yes their very existence made them open to corruption. Their noosphere connectivity made things infinitely worse than in Humans because small points of corruption get propagated to every single MOI in the network at an exponential rate. That's why the MOI were so dangerous. It's also why 40k has no Internet.
EDIT: Ninja'd
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Yeah I thought he was talking about the MoI STC found in Gaunt's ghosts that was corrupted from the STC.
Not about their Geth nature.
/facepalm
I'm British, the word 'git' is part of my native language.
Don't make me get Mr Zoat in here to call you a colonial.
And if we fall to Chaos we also fail the Emperor.
I trust our ability to defeat super Orks on the battlefield more than I trust our ability to resist chaos after we decide they are a lesser evil.
- Location
- Australia
I'm sorry what? Ork daemons? But the Ork gods don't work like that! Blessing orks and empowering the Waaagh is fine. They're both a logical estimate of what Ork gods are capable of doing and it's supported by everything from 40k to Warhammer Fantasy to Age of Sigmar.
Ork daemons on the other hand is an idea completely and utterly unsupported by any Warhammer material, with it never even been hinted at, even during the War of the Beast series.
It's not even a logical assessment of what they might be capable of doing in the future.logic behind ork daemons is, as far as I can tell, no deeper than "Ork gods are gods. Chaos Gods are gods. Chaos Gods have daemons, therefore Ork gods will have daemons." This is despite the fact that there are different types of gods with only the Chaos Gods having access to daemons. Order Gods, despite being Warp-based just like the Chaos Gods, do not have daemons. The Order Gods in Warhammer Fantasy don't have them, the Order Gods in Age of Sigmar don't have them, and the Eldar Gods in 40k didn't/don't have them, not even Cegorach who is alive, whole, and free.
Order Gods don't have daemons. Eldar Gods (also Order Gods) don't have daemons. C'tan don't have daemons or daemon-equivalents. Old Ones have never been known to have daemons. The Emperor never had daemons, the closest thing being Living Saints which are just souls empowered by fragments of his own soul. Only Chaos has ever had daemons. Giving the Ork Gods daemons on the basis of 'other gods have daemons' is wrong. Daemons have always been and should remain exclusive to Chaos Gods.
The orks as a faction has always been about orks. Orks fight, orks form Waaaghs, orks generate Waaagh, Gork and Mork act by empowering and directing orks. The whole point of the orks is that it's orks and they fight and they win because they're orks. Ork daemons just doesn't make sense from that perspective. It would no longer be orks fighting, it would be daemons fighting. That's less fighting that right and proper orks have because a portion of the fight is being given to daemons. Orks don't want that. Gork and Mork, the avatar of the ork race, wouldn't want that because they want orks to fight, just like the orks do, and ork daemons means real orks aren't fighting as much because the daemons are taking up some of the fight. It's energy not being used to empower the waaagh, bless an ork, or grow more boyz faster.
I highly recommend making it so that your "ork daemons are likely" thing is just a guess by someone who doesn't know better. You can do stuff with Gork and Mork. Blessings logically fit within the ork faction and it's supported as something that can be done by all three games. For a unique mechanic, do as you suggested would happen and let them do stuff with the Waaagh, also something that logically fits with orks, is supported by all three games, is unique to all the factions, and is the raw primal force of the orks if the War of the Beast is anything to go by.
Do not do ork daemons. It doesn't fit in, it's completely unsupported by everything, and it steals what should be a unique facet of another faction.
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- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
This is actually the most convincing argument for warning chaos that I have seen, warn everyone in the hope that they preemptively strike at orc populations, putting more resources behind efforts to depopulate the Orks before this hits and hopefully letting us get ahead of their exponential growth.
Edit: but it still relies on chaos behaving in a sensible, predicable, or rational manner, so I'm still narrowly against it.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
So am I mate, I was just making a joke.
I am after all LORD BUCKETHEAD
Alternatively you could stop winging and go along with it.
Seriously who cares, orks can do pretty much what ever the fuck they want so why can't Gork and Mork do it (DO NOT ANSWER THAT)
Seriously this is fic put the canon away what @Durin says goes.
This also isn't new Red Flag did it first and while I don't read his quest because it depresses me from what I have read his work is really good go look there if you want an idea of what he has likely based this on it makes sense.
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- Location
- Australia
They did not have souls. The Warning of the Mechanicus which states "The soulless sentience is the enemy of all" refers to the Men of Iron. Unfortunately, Chaos is not restricted to souls when it comes to corruption.
If Red Flag thought of ork daemons first then that means he was the first to think of a bad idea. Quality writing does not necessarily mean good concept. (Number None, for example, takes some bad character concepts from Bleach but, through good writing, makes those characters good despite barely changing them at all.)
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HanEmpire
Delicious
I personally take that warning with a grain of salt because it's heaped in religious dogma. Because of course the Mechanicus would love making bad statements about the Men of Iron, truthful or not, and they're not experts when it comes to dealing with the Warp.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Oh goodness sakes calm the hell down.
Whats wrong with the idea that as orks grow more orky they spontaneously make more super orks via the waaargh field through their overwhelming orkyness?
Or that when pushed their waaargh field operated machines become Orks via the waaargh field.
Its not like Gork and Mork are doing what chaos does its something caused by how overwhelmingly orky the orks are, that the waaargh makes more super orks from the sheer orkyness of them.
For goodness sakes man this is completely within the capabilities of the orks and is a good idea because BEAST BEAST BEAST all the time if fucking boring I want more spice to my green skinned destroyers of worlds.
I really don't get what's wrong with the idea of Ork Daemons are bad and can never be a thing if they're just more funky versions of the orks.
Also to debunk some of what you said The C'tan are not Immaterium gods so they can't do that, we don't know what the eldar gods did because they are all in Slaanesh's stomach (though honestly it looks like Chegorath does do something to the harlequins) and the emperor had to do it sparingly because he's focusing most of his power on other things and does still do it on occasion via the saints as you said. We've also seen the old ones do it albeit in directly now with the Sphinx.
Chaos can do it because they get power from all living beings, sounds familiar, like Gork and Mork who get oodles of power constantly from their zillions strong, hyper psycic species.
This isn't canon and its a nice idea and you have no idea where @Durin will go to it so PLEASE, don't go around dismissing things before you've even tried them as you said it could just be a false flag by @Durin (I hope not I really like the idea.)
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- Location
- Australia
Because the result of orks growing more orky is that they're supposed to get even orkier, i.e. bigger and stronger.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
And they do that, which is fine.
But, why shouldn't more orkyness create more orks to cause more orkiness and so on and so on in a cycle that will eventually destroy the universe.
Cause that's what happens... apparently.
Besides if its just "bigger orks" then that's boring.
OH NO ITS AN UPGRADED FORM OF GODZILLA.
A EVEN BIGGGER GODZILLA.
Seriously that's boring, at least make the new Godzilla metal.
In this case, make the ork bigger and make new orks made of Waargh energy appear out of no where which cause the physical orks to get even orkier and bigger.
- Location
- Leeds
True Metal Power was right all along.
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
I don't see the point of warning chaos since if we warn everybody else chaos will inevitably hear about it and trying to warn chaos polities might send the wrong message to everyone else making diplomacy harder.
Also about Ork demons I don't see the big issue it just means that when the Orks have a good Waagh!! some orky demons show up to enjoy the fight which will leave once the fight is over. Like instead of new Yoofs popping up out of nowhere now it is Ork demons coming out when the Waagh!! is high.
Also about Ork demons I don't see the big issue it just means that when the Orks have a good Waagh!! some orky demons show up to enjoy the fight which will leave once the fight is over. Like instead of new Yoofs popping up out of nowhere now it is Ork demons coming out when the Waagh!! is high.
ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
Given Gork and Mork have been napping all this time, and this is them getting up and Doing Things, a change up of normal Ork functions is really to be expected.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
Coming back around to arguing against warning chaos.
I mean seriously: The Khornate cultists would try to set things up so that they could fight the most and spill the most blood, possibly interfering with efforts at preemptive strikes so they get a bigger better fight with more opportunities to gain honor and spill lots of ork blood.
The nurglite cultists will just dig in more and probably not be useful by drawing attention, also there aren't many in our area.
The slaneshi cultists will either try to set things up so they can get the new experience of fighting suuupa Orkz or preemptive strike so that they live longer to take more drugs(I don't think so).
And worst of the traditional groups, the Tzeentchians will have even more of a chance to work the suuupa Orkz into their schemes, which means directing them at us, or dragons nest, or maybe another polity, but most likely one of the uncorrupted but corruptable polities, mostly the human ones.
Then there's the abomination cultists, I'm not sure of their characterization clearly enough yet but I bet that they'd use any warning to support their authority, allowing them to better hold what they have and possibly use the info to seem more respectable and like a more viable source of protection to uncorrupted human powers.
Presumably their emphasis on obeying tradition would also lead them to whatever the standard imperial response to dealing with an increasing ork threat level on a budget was, which wouldn't be useful to us unless that involves preemptive strikes and might not work that well with the increased orkyness. (It doesn't, right guys? what's the normal doctrine for that here, I'm thinking turtle up, avoid drawing attention, then try to relieve whichever of your planets gets hit and mousetrap the warboss.)
And finally, the regional powers sheet indicates that the local chaos powers are Turoq (tzeentch), and Demagoye (slannesh), alongside assorted Chaos minors.
I think that orks are easy to redirect for schemers and I don't want the Tzeentchians getting anymore warning than necessary.
1.What happended to Valinor?
2. Why is it that Valinor and the local Orkish domains are not on the regional powers list?
2.i. Are they counted among the assorted orks, and assorted Chaos minors?
I mean seriously: The Khornate cultists would try to set things up so that they could fight the most and spill the most blood, possibly interfering with efforts at preemptive strikes so they get a bigger better fight with more opportunities to gain honor and spill lots of ork blood.
The nurglite cultists will just dig in more and probably not be useful by drawing attention, also there aren't many in our area.
The slaneshi cultists will either try to set things up so they can get the new experience of fighting suuupa Orkz or preemptive strike so that they live longer to take more drugs(I don't think so).
And worst of the traditional groups, the Tzeentchians will have even more of a chance to work the suuupa Orkz into their schemes, which means directing them at us, or dragons nest, or maybe another polity, but most likely one of the uncorrupted but corruptable polities, mostly the human ones.
Then there's the abomination cultists, I'm not sure of their characterization clearly enough yet but I bet that they'd use any warning to support their authority, allowing them to better hold what they have and possibly use the info to seem more respectable and like a more viable source of protection to uncorrupted human powers.
Presumably their emphasis on obeying tradition would also lead them to whatever the standard imperial response to dealing with an increasing ork threat level on a budget was, which wouldn't be useful to us unless that involves preemptive strikes and might not work that well with the increased orkyness. (It doesn't, right guys? what's the normal doctrine for that here, I'm thinking turtle up, avoid drawing attention, then try to relieve whichever of your planets gets hit and mousetrap the warboss.)
And finally, the regional powers sheet indicates that the local chaos powers are Turoq (tzeentch), and Demagoye (slannesh), alongside assorted Chaos minors.
I think that orks are easy to redirect for schemers and I don't want the Tzeentchians getting anymore warning than necessary.
1.What happended to Valinor?
2. Why is it that Valinor and the local Orkish domains are not on the regional powers list?
2.i. Are they counted among the assorted orks, and assorted Chaos minors?
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Because they're in the neighbouring regions.
Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 2337
And to respond to your things, Khorne is likely to just go barreling towards the orks (seriously the majority are rather lacking in higher thought processes)
Nurgle would probably do what you said, Slaanesh would probably premptive strike the orks which is a good thing.
As for tzeench maybe the old orks, but since we seem to be headed for super orks probably not.
Abominations schtick is control, so they'd probably do what they do already.
As for your stratergy we're dealing with anything from Superpowered orks, Ork Daemons to war moons, there is no strategy its just turtle up and hope the Beast doesn't care to swat us.
On Ork daemons, they may not technically be daemons in the Chaos sense of being shards of their respective gods - could be the spirits of Orks of battles past, summoned by Weirdboyz to fight once more or to be imbued into gunz to make them even more Orky (so Ork machine spirits).
It shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as we're warning literally everyone, IMO. The message would essentially be "Super Orks incoming. Prepare yourselves, or we'll ALL be swept away in a tide of green."
Locally, we've only got two potentially friendly polities of any size - the Dragon's Nest and Karnas. Given the nature of the threat and the benefits of being friendly with us, I don't think there's much risk of them being so salty about it that they won't ally with us. The smaller polities would all want to cozy up to us in the hopes of us protecting them, so they won't care.
Valinor is still there, and check the Neighboring Regions sheet for both them and the local Ork domains.
It shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as we're warning literally everyone, IMO. The message would essentially be "Super Orks incoming. Prepare yourselves, or we'll ALL be swept away in a tide of green."
Locally, we've only got two potentially friendly polities of any size - the Dragon's Nest and Karnas. Given the nature of the threat and the benefits of being friendly with us, I don't think there's much risk of them being so salty about it that they won't ally with us. The smaller polities would all want to cozy up to us in the hopes of us protecting them, so they won't care.
Valinor is still there, and check the Neighboring Regions sheet for both them and the local Ork domains.