And you think I do not know that? Specifically that mechanicus does not share their knowledge freely or easily? Because I do. I just say that the reason why they do this is open for interpretation. I never saw in any source I ever read an explicit statement that mechanicus is hoarding all teh shiniez for teh lulz and pointless evulz. People are free to interpret it that way, of course, but at the same time, they should not forget that other interpretations also exist and are equally as valid.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
I`m preeeeeeety sure that it`s the articles authors personal bias showing here. Haven`t seen it explicitly stated in any source that mechanicus is hoarding the technology. You may, personally, interpret their actions in that light, but that`s all it is going to be. Your personal interpretation. There are other ways to interpret the setting
Going off the sources given...
Page 42 of the Codex Imperialis:
Also, another example of a Forge World that is hoarding tech (while also apparently losing it) is Belacane, who used to produce Stasis Fields, but now can't for some reasons. Tech-hoarding is pretty much commonplace in the Mechanicus, and even then they lose it because they don't even share it among themselves.
Nobody said they're doing it for the lulz or the evulz. They're just doing it out of a kind of stupid religious greed.
Possibly there are many Lords in the Solar System who don't wish to see upheavels or disrupt the Status Quo.
Introducing new technology most of the time messes up the current power structure.
Edit: I am also forgetting the religious aspect. Religion can often make people do stupid and harmful things to themselves. The Cult of the Omnisiah is no different.
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Huh, so there is a source for this. I stand corrected. Oh well.
And stupid religious greed? At this point it`s pretty clear that we have pretty differing headcanons as far as mechanicus is concerned.
Well, when that shiny new innovation that you just made can sprout tentacles and eat your face, some kind of aversion to innovate is warranted. And letting people screw around with tech that they themselves barely understand is kinda not the best idea. And yes, maintaining status quo is also a big part of it.
Also, lay off the religion, will you. We are not getting rid of it. Ever. Emps tried to do that, did not end well for him. We are not Emps, so we are not gonna even try.
Wh
What about a religious schism from the established Imperial Church? The Imperium spread religion and dogma in the galaxy after the Emperor, but it is full of hate and counterproductive practices. Prune away all the stupid shit and teach the exact oposite of the bad lessons and practices it has. If we manage that we could get a progressive society going.
If we did that the downside is we couldn't live with the standard Imperial government due to how heretical we would be.
What about a religious schism from the established Imperial Church? The Imperium spread religion and dogma in the galaxy after the Emperor, but it is full of hate and counterproductive practices. Prune away all the stupid shit and teach the exact oposite of the bad lessons and practices it has. If we manage that we could get a progressive society going.
If we did that the downside is we couldn't live with the standard Imperial government due to how heretical we would be.
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I'm fine with letting them keep the religion for the most part, but as things stand they can't be allowed to keep control over who gets what knowledge. I'm thinking control over STC and tech distribution to different should end up going to the Administratum, with Munitorum approval in some cases. The AdMech can still build, maintain, and chant at tech all they like, but someone more objective needs to be in charge of which Forge Worlds get what tech, and ensure we always have multiple copies of every design.
Skewfiend
The Corruptor of All Things
- Location
- The Darkness Behind Your Eyes
As I recall, the emperor refrained from trying because it was politacally expedient at the time, for much the same reason he didn't subjugate the martian empire, as alluded to above.
We obviously shouldn't try to destroy their religion, but a great deal of reform needs to happen.
Letters Home (2)
Omake: Letters Home (2)
Dear Ma,
I told I would write soon and tell about what is happening with everyone. We are still all well. I keep my job with training going well. Milo finded a job as delivery driver. You know he always want to drive, now he got his chance. Drive like mad though. Terror to ride with.
Orrin is working at a book shop. Doesn't pay as well, but he's becoming a fine reader. He's always reading. I've been reading a little bit to. Orrin has been teaching me how to write better. Writing very important here to get good jobs.
I'm worrying about Tyrel though. He's youngest, and always wanting more then is smart to try for. They have people here. In Midgard they called outcasts, but they are respected here. They hunt the forests for trade goods. Tyrel is going and listening to their tales when they come into sell goods. Think their job is good and flash. They called enter-pay-newers here, I think cause they get payed without working for a boss?
You would figure after Logan that Ty would shy off, but he more determined. Says he might find Logan while out there. I tell him to make more money working in the shop were it safe. Ty think he can make more money on a plan some merchants talk about with these trade good hunters. They want to ship ore to Dorthonion. Through the forest on their own instead of with the official convey. So they don't have to pay transport fee. Want to hire guides and guards instead.
I told Tyrel that he has to wait until you get here and then you have to approve. And that he needs enough money to buy some ore to make that kind of trip worth it anyway. I manage to make him get a job at the shop where I can keep an eye on him, but I need you to write him and help me.
I talked to my boss and he have a good job ready for Barnabas when you get here next year. It not like Midgard, they like people who fiddle with tech here. I told them about Barnabas as he very interested. Not like Midgard, they like people who like machines. I saw a real Tech Priest visit our shop and answer questions about repairs. The repairmen thanked him nicely for teaching them how to respect the machine spirits correctly. It didn't even cost the boss that much to get the Tech Priest to do that either.
Worst problem is finding room to live in. Spaces are hard to find and cost lot of money. Not like Midgard though. These Avernites think it crowded when they have to share a room. That is a way I's saving money. Orrin is sharing with Milo and me with Tyrel and letting out the other two rooms to people looking for rooms for a month during trade trips. I also manage to let Logan's room out for one year before the landlord tried to take it back, so I will have space for you when you and Barnabas arrive.
If we work hard for a few years we should be able to buy you a house Ma.
Love Tell
Dear Ma,
I told I would write soon and tell about what is happening with everyone. We are still all well. I keep my job with training going well. Milo finded a job as delivery driver. You know he always want to drive, now he got his chance. Drive like mad though. Terror to ride with.
Orrin is working at a book shop. Doesn't pay as well, but he's becoming a fine reader. He's always reading. I've been reading a little bit to. Orrin has been teaching me how to write better. Writing very important here to get good jobs.
I'm worrying about Tyrel though. He's youngest, and always wanting more then is smart to try for. They have people here. In Midgard they called outcasts, but they are respected here. They hunt the forests for trade goods. Tyrel is going and listening to their tales when they come into sell goods. Think their job is good and flash. They called enter-pay-newers here, I think cause they get payed without working for a boss?
You would figure after Logan that Ty would shy off, but he more determined. Says he might find Logan while out there. I tell him to make more money working in the shop were it safe. Ty think he can make more money on a plan some merchants talk about with these trade good hunters. They want to ship ore to Dorthonion. Through the forest on their own instead of with the official convey. So they don't have to pay transport fee. Want to hire guides and guards instead.
I told Tyrel that he has to wait until you get here and then you have to approve. And that he needs enough money to buy some ore to make that kind of trip worth it anyway. I manage to make him get a job at the shop where I can keep an eye on him, but I need you to write him and help me.
I talked to my boss and he have a good job ready for Barnabas when you get here next year. It not like Midgard, they like people who fiddle with tech here. I told them about Barnabas as he very interested. Not like Midgard, they like people who like machines. I saw a real Tech Priest visit our shop and answer questions about repairs. The repairmen thanked him nicely for teaching them how to respect the machine spirits correctly. It didn't even cost the boss that much to get the Tech Priest to do that either.
Worst problem is finding room to live in. Spaces are hard to find and cost lot of money. Not like Midgard though. These Avernites think it crowded when they have to share a room. That is a way I's saving money. Orrin is sharing with Milo and me with Tyrel and letting out the other two rooms to people looking for rooms for a month during trade trips. I also manage to let Logan's room out for one year before the landlord tried to take it back, so I will have space for you when you and Barnabas arrive.
If we work hard for a few years we should be able to buy you a house Ma.
Love Tell
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On the Mechanicus, regardless of their reasons for hoarding tech, I think that is a practice we want to encourage less of in our areas of influence.
Also, in the Jackson omakes I wrote, I notice no one seemed to pick up on my hints that Jackson is a latent minor psyker. Were they too obscure?
Also, in the Jackson omakes I wrote, I notice no one seemed to pick up on my hints that Jackson is a latent minor psyker. Were they too obscure?
I`m fine with that. And it is fortunate then that by the time we are ready to start seriously expanding there should be no standard imperial governments left in the galaxy. At least not the ones that could try to purge us and succeed.
Nope. I`m not suicidal. If the end result of what we are doing in Avernus turns out to be this, I`m not going to complain. But I sure as hell not going to be the guy who will have to tell admech that they should shut up and listen to administratum clerks now. Thanks, no thanks.
I was talking about religion as a whole, not only the one admech practice. And not sure how we could reform them, to tell you honestly. I can see us managing to sell the idea that sharing tech with other forgeworlds is just common sense. But we`ll see how it goes. Mainly depends on what durins interpretation of admech is. So far it does not seem that extensive reforms are even needed.
Skewfiend
The Corruptor of All Things
- Location
- The Darkness Behind Your Eyes
I didn't comment, as it was during yet another period in which I fell behind, but the consistent and repeated luck was rather telling, to anyone familiar with descriptions of minor psykers.
The luck was significant enough to make me suspect that he is actually a partially latent greater psyker.
@Elder Haman will Tell's writing improve from easy access to education?
Our local AdMech obviously gets everything. No reason for them to complain. Other Forge Worlds should like it because it means they'd get more frequent access to tech - they currently petition Mars or other Forge Worlds who aren't inclined to share.
Honestly? I thought that he was like Ciaphas or Frederick: blessed/cursed with luck.
You know, I don't think that'd be the case. Blink Spiders are a constant threat, so you'd want to have someone watching over you while you sleep. That's a minimum of one extra person.
Now, since the national past time seems to be knocking uglies, that introduces a problem: who's keeping an eye out while they do so? Certainly not them!
And the problems we've been having with plague's says two things:
1) The diseases on Avernus are really bad.
2) People are rather packed together.
Combined with the focus on defensibility, and picture forms.
Way I see it? People work and live in groups, 24/7. They are always with at least someone else, ready to help them in case they need. On the toilet, in the bath, in bed, they're never alone. They've always got someone with them.
Related to this, people would likely sleep in shifts, ensuring everyone gets some rest protected.
So, how would this work? Communal homes, each housing dozens if not hundreds of people, all ensuring that everyone else is doing all right. Privacy is imaginary, a luxury reserved for the stupid and powerful. Selfishness is a sin, punishable by death.
I don't particularly like that interpretation. Parts are ok.
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Same here. But even if I disliked what he did with Iron Men it was still interesting to read
That was the plan. I sketched out a story, and then realized it was way too big to go in one omake. Decided to have Tell's writing improve in each letter. I think he already has improved quite a bit.
Read the intropage and think its gibberish. Seriously... electronics are banned because they make coherent sense... so lets only use warptech. Warptech is the only tech and not dangerous at all. We, of AM, don't understand it much (but pretend we do), but its better that way. After all it was developed by an AI, that was in itself developed by an Ai, etc.. and is Superior because its space magic and stuff. Also something about making all tech socially equal to humans and part of the family.
That is painfully at odds with the lore and sounds like the worst kind of Tech Heresy. Warp tech is literally used to power toasters. By law. BY LAW!!!
"Why would you do that?" The public asks... "isn't that like stupidly dangerous?"
"Well electronic toasters can be shorted out by throwing it into the warp completely unshielded," AM responds.
"Why exactly would you even test that? Don't you treat all tech like human family members or something?" asks the public.
"That is how you teach children to swim. Just throw them off the end of the pier and if they don't survive just make more."
*Two hours later social services confiscates all AD toasters*
*Two hours afterwards the building is destroyed by hoards of flying, glowing toaster with skeletal wings*
The Adepts Mechanicus does share tech. All STCs they find are given to Mars, and Mars then redistributes them to people they think can be trusted.
There's a reason that not everyone is given them, and that's because not everyone can be trusted. There's a reason that the military doesn't tell everyone how to make nukes and F-22s. The Adeptus Mechanicus has a pretty good record of not releasing technology that causes problems
The Adeptus Mechanicus has worked absolutely fine as an autonomous ally of the Imperium for the last ten thousand years. Some technology has become lost as the Archeotech factories that produce them have been lost. Other technologies have been gained. That's inevitable when working with a polity on this scale. That doesn't give a justification to tear up the Treaty of Mars the Emperor made and to try to conquer them. It's heretical as well as stupid. We're in a situation where we don't need to betray our allies and enslave them, they'll work with us quite happily without doing so.
You can't take away control of STCs from the Adeptus Mechanicus and let them keep their religion. They're a mystery cult that believes that STCs and technological knowledge in general is sacred and should be reserved for the initiated, with the higher mysteries restricted to the inner circles of the cult, because the common man can't be trusted with it. In 40K, they're essentially right.
There's a reason that not everyone is given them, and that's because not everyone can be trusted. There's a reason that the military doesn't tell everyone how to make nukes and F-22s. The Adeptus Mechanicus has a pretty good record of not releasing technology that causes problems
The Adeptus Mechanicus has worked absolutely fine as an autonomous ally of the Imperium for the last ten thousand years. Some technology has become lost as the Archeotech factories that produce them have been lost. Other technologies have been gained. That's inevitable when working with a polity on this scale. That doesn't give a justification to tear up the Treaty of Mars the Emperor made and to try to conquer them. It's heretical as well as stupid. We're in a situation where we don't need to betray our allies and enslave them, they'll work with us quite happily without doing so.
You can't take away control of STCs from the Adeptus Mechanicus and let them keep their religion. They're a mystery cult that believes that STCs and technological knowledge in general is sacred and should be reserved for the initiated, with the higher mysteries restricted to the inner circles of the cult, because the common man can't be trusted with it. In 40K, they're essentially right.
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1. Nobody said they don't share tech at all, they just clearly don't share it enough.
2. Where is there copy of the original Vanquisher Cannon STC again? And why haven't they distributed it to a single Forge World even though the one other Forge World that had it lost it due to Orks in the 35th Millennium? Oh, that's right, they don't have it. They've got most of the Mechanicus STCs, but they don't have all of them.
Nobody is saying that everybody should be given every STC. Again, the problem is that they are far too restrictive in who they give it to, which results in totally unnecessary losses of technology. It's utterly ridiculous that for a polity the size of the Imperium that is at war as frequently as it is that something as valuable as the Vanquisher Cannon would only be produced on a single Forge World.
It's not just due to factories not working anymore. They lose actual STCs and other bits of valuable transferable knowledge.
The Mechanicus would still be the ones to actually use them. Nobody in the Administratum would actually know how they work. You don't need to know how to make a toaster to know what it does.
Has it been determined your society needs more toasters? If yes, look at the toaster STC's ratings. Value, low. Danger level if captured by enemies, low. Technical difficulty, low. Ok, send it on the next transport to Industrial World X and have the AdMech there get to work on building toaster factories for the masses.
Does your military need more Vanquisher Cannons? If yes, look at the STC's ratings. Value, very high. Danger level if captured by enemies, very high, Munitorum clearance required. Technical difficulty, high. Ok, can't send it just anywhere. Find a list of Forge Worlds with high enough ratings in security and expertise. Consult with Mechancius advisers over candidate list or whether it would be better to expand production on an existing world. If a new world is best, get Munitorum approval and send it to them under heavy guard. If production expansion is better, allocate resources to have an existing world that already has it build facilities to expand production. Either way, the local AdMech can handle the details of how they get to work.
*raises an eyebrow* Really? You know you complain about a non canon fanfic? It says so on the page even. It`s just a reinterpretation of warhammer universe which I found interesting enough to share. I find it even more absurd than ad mech using warp tech. Complaining about canonicity of a non canon fanfic, that is.
A print out of the design is presumably sitting on Mars somewhere in the data vaults, and is what the other Forge Worlds used when attempting to reproduce it after the STC was lost.
It makes it much harder for the enemies of the Imperium to steal the design though, and if they have an STC on that world, it can make vastly better versions of that piece of technology than anythign else..
STCs aren't transferable. An STC is an incredibly sophisticated piece of hardware and software that's best compared to a very restricted hyper-intelligent but non-sapient AI controlling an automated factory. You pour what raw materials you have available in the top, tell it what other limitations you're operating under, and it spits out the best version of the template that it can with the feed stock available. That's why there are worlds with wood burning Leman Russ tanks, and others with plasma engines.
STC print outs are what is transferable, but they aren't STCs themselves, they're just the designs for a specific iterations. You actually have to have people work out how to make the design and then build it themselves. What is sent to Mars is the information, not the automated factory.
People don't distinguish the difference all the time, which leads to conclusion.
Why should the Mechanicus agree to any of that? They're currently an independent allied state. What's the upside for them in losing their independence. Why should they want to have to get Munitorum or Administratum approval before going about their business with their technology.
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