The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

[Doomed Wombat]

There is nothing here about subordinating themselves to the Trust in diplomatic matters.

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What we were negotiating was their entry into the Trust, where it very explicitly states

1. The Planetary Systems give up the power to conduct foreign diplomacy on their own

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As a planetary system (which is stated within your quote as they are the colonial ruler) with the right to a high and low council seat they gave up the right to negotiate with foreign bodies independently of the Trust.

They are not an "independent" body like the admech, who also gave up the right to negotiate when we wrote the constitution.

 

[Valerian]

What we were negotiating was their entry into the Trust, where it very explicitly states


As a planetary system (which is stated within your quote as they are the colonial ruler) with the right to a high and low council seat they gave up the right to negotiate with foreign bodies independently of the Trust.

They are not an "independent" body like the admech, who also gave up the right to negotiate when we wrote the constitution.

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Hmmmm, very well.

 

[Valkur]

Hard but not impossible. Back in the age of sail it took over a hundred days to carry tea from China to England. Assuming we have something sufficiently valuable merchants will happily make the trip.

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Gift them a phase tiger(female) to there chapter master. Wait 2 weeks and charge an exorbiant amount for each later.

 

[vsh]

Trade with Dragon's Nest

Hard but not impossible. Back in the age of sail it took over a hundred days to carry tea from China to England. Assuming we have something sufficiently valuable merchants will happily make the trip.

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We obviously have a lot of valuable stuff. Question is what they are willing to trade. I fear the only things that are of interest to us are either sacred (geneseed, librarian secrets, SM-specific STCs, relics) or vital (forges, shipyards).

 

[Doomed Wombat]

We obviously have a lot of valuable stuff. Question is what they are willing to trade. I fear the only things that are of interest to us are either sacred (geneseed, librarian secrets, SM-specific STCs, relics) or vital (forges, shipyards).

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Well there is an inherent value in having a very strong buffer state like the Blood Dragons close at hand especially one strong enough to fight local threats and win, but not so strong that its a massive threat to us.

They also have one thing that is really valuable to us, Geneseed research. Blood Angels and their descendents are some of the biggest experts on the subject, which makes sense seeing as they have the flaws.

Seeing as they're not only a large chapter (5000) they've probably researched a lot more.

 

[Arlos]

What I'm really interested in personally are the Higher Level forge we can get.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

What I'm really interested in personally are the Higher Level forge we can get.

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There is no guarantee they have them.

In fact it is very unlikely seeing as the forges we want were held by Forge Worlds only.

 

[Valkur]

Here's a question: What is wrong with the Blood Dragons that they cannot fight off Necrons well enough despite having 60 some worlds and unlimited recruiting power within them + recruiting rights in 12 worlds of the Karnas again.

 

[Timewarriors]

Here's a question: What is wrong with the Blood Dragons that they cannot fight off Necrons well enough despite having 60 some worlds and unlimited recruiting power within them + recruiting rights in 12 worlds of the Karnas again.

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There too spread out.

 

[HanEmpire]

Here's a question: What is wrong with the Blood Dragons that they cannot fight off Necrons well enough despite having 60 some worlds and unlimited recruiting power within them + recruiting rights in 12 worlds of the Karnas again.

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You need a large numerical advantage to fight off the Necrons. The Blood Dragons don't seem to have a good shipbuilding capacity.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Here's a question: What is wrong with the Blood Dragons that they cannot fight off Necrons well enough despite having 60 some worlds and unlimited recruiting power within them + recruiting rights in 12 worlds of the Karnas again.

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Constant conflict with orks and valinor wearing down their numbers, necron speed (they are one of he fastest 40k species and don't use the warp, and the size of their territory makes it even harder. And lack of strong ships.

 

[Valkur]

So how can we help them in a way that will also be beneficial to ourselves?

1. Eat orks?
2. Take out Valinors Navy and Space Yards?
3. Technology sharing to help them one up on those Necrons?

 

[NotteBoy97]

Well we have a lot of Psykers which is a major weakness of Necrons since they won't be able to repair the damage done by them. So we can theoretically attrition crons down if we use them optimally. Of course this is easier said than done but is worth pointin out.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

So how can we help them in a way that will also be beneficial to ourselves?

1. Eat orks?
2. Take out Valinors Navy and Space Yards?
3. Technology sharing to help them one up on those Necrons?

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Ork noing helps 1000 of his marines are in conflict with garkil along with 50 of his 700 capital ships
Taking out valinor is obviously useful
We can sell them capital ships no STCs unless there is extenuating circumstances

Even then were in no way close to tech parity with crons

 

[Shard]

The Art of Telepathy

Unseen University, Telepathy Class

"To master the mind, one must first understand the mind. This is necessarily self-evident.. but like most tasks, it is one easier said than done. For you see, each mind and soul are unique, each shaped by their own individual circumstances from life to death. This is true even among identical twins - Even at a glance, myriad differences can be easily observed between two such people."

The Telepathy-focused Sanctionite walked and spoke as if to an audience, although the 'class', as it were, consisted of a grand total of one student.

"It is of course, entirely possible to bend the will of another without knowing them. Many novices resort to such; But this brute force approach is both inefficient and resistible. It is quite like entering a melee; Even an ordinary human can resist powers when they come against their fore, let alone trained soldiers, your fellow Avernites or other psykers you may come to oppose."

Telepathy, while available as a communicative tool, was refrained from, especially in the early lessons. Dependency upon powers was not something to be learned.

"Today, we'll begin with the most important mind that one should understand. Your own. When using Telepathy upon others, one must strive utmost to differentiate one's own mind with that of the one they intend to manipulate. Falter in that, and a slow bleed of identity to eventual insanity results."

Went unspoken, of course, was that the cracks and flaws in the student's mind and soul would be thoroughly revealed. Nearly every psyker that came to the University would have them, to some extent. Working upon them were among the most critical tasks a student would have to succeed in to pass their Trials.

"As you will learn, the minds of others will not be like your own."

The Sanctionite stopped walking as his words came to a finish. He looked closely upon his pupil, one Lanek Haynildor. This was one of his brighter students; Though he had an odd admixture of hobbies; Dueling with swords, a perfectly Avernite activity... and floral arrangements. He had no idea how one obtained an interest in plants upon this planet, but synthetics were always available, as were non-Avernite plants. Learning about your students came naturally, but some of the things you learned were just bizarre.

At the moment, his shape in the warp was that of a scholar, a good sign of attention; Slight tilting of the head indicated attentiveness, and his mind showed no sign of fatigue. Which was all well and good, since this lesson had quite the tendency to be an exhausting one. Thankfully, though, not a perilous one by any measure. Still.. well, time to move on. One hand to the forehead, and the lesson would begin, properly, now.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Still one thing I really want, but I very much doubt we'd get out of the Blood Dragons is a drop of Sanguinius's blood.

All of the successors of the Blood Angels have at least one vial and they need it to stabilise their geneseed I think, something like that anyway.

While there's little we could learn conventionally we are probably the best non chaos experts on warp genetics.

 

[RogueInquisitor]

We obviously have a lot of valuable stuff. Question is what they are willing to trade. I fear the only things that are of interest to us are either sacred (geneseed, librarian secrets, SM-specific STCs, relics) or vital (forges, shipyards).

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We probably don't want any of their geneseed. Theirs is from a different primarch, so not of that much use to us. Helping us figure out some of the Grey Knights geneseed we already have is both valuable (these guys are the best anti-daemon troops around) and not especially objectionable. Also, we may be able to offer our own expertise, given our experience in learning of and from the wildlife of Avernus. Librarian training isn't likely to involve many secrets the Blood Dragons wouldn't be comfortable sharing with other Astartes. They might not be willing to share their Sanguinary psychic discipline, but that isn't exactly a deal breaker, when there's still Librarius, Fulmination, Geokinesis, and Technomancy disciplines that aren't Chapter-specific. As for Marine-specific STCs, there probably aren't that many we're interested in. Most vehicle, armor, and weapons STCs have likely been superseded by further discoveries on Avernus, meaning we're likely to be the ones providing any new equipment patterns. Regarding Forges and shipyards, we do have a ton of minor efficiency and productivity STCs that could greatly increase their industrial output, which we might suggest they pay for with some fraction of that added productivity. For example, if the new STCs allow them to produce (just as an example) an extra 5 cruisers a year, the could pay us with one or two of those additional cruisers per year for a certain number of years.

 

[Valerian]

We probably don't want any of their geneseed. Theirs is from a different primarch, so not of that much use to us. Helping us figure out some of the Grey Knights geneseed we already have is both valuable (these guys are the best anti-daemon troops around) and not especially objectionable. Also, we may be able to offer our own expertise, given our experience in learning of and from the wildlife of Avernus. Librarian training isn't likely to involve many secrets the Blood Dragons wouldn't be comfortable sharing with other Astartes. They might not be willing to share their Sanguinary psychic discipline, but that isn't exactly a deal breaker, when there's still Librarius, Fulmination, Geokinesis, and Technomancy disciplines that aren't Chapter-specific. As for Marine-specific STCs, there probably aren't that many we're interested in. Most vehicle, armor, and weapons STCs have likely been superseded by further discoveries on Avernus, meaning we're likely to be the ones providing any new equipment patterns. Regarding Forges and shipyards, we do have a ton of minor efficiency and productivity STCs that could greatly increase their industrial output, which we might suggest they pay for with some fraction of that added productivity. For example, if the new STCs allow them to produce (just as an example) an extra 5 cruisers a year, the could pay us with one or two of those additional cruisers per year for a certain number of years.

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I am very dead-set against sharing any tech until we get a thorough look at their government and people.

All it takes is one corrupt planetary governor on the fringes of their realm trading away tech we have given them for money or favors to completely sink our tech advantage with everybody.

Look into dispersing certain Civilian and manufacturing efficiency STCs? Sure.

But Military or Advanced/Exotic material STC's? Hell. No.

Or at least not until we have had centuries of good relations with them and have secured our immediate borders from threats.

 

[Valkur]

I'm with Valerian on seeing how good they are in keeping tech secrets. Let's not trust them with anything that can give any enemy a significant advantage.

@Durin

1. I am so sorry to ask but do you think we can get an update today or tommorow? I know finals are like next week but I would love to see what's happening in the universe as the Inquisition is willing to tell us.
2. How long until the Space Marines have 1k?

 

[CyberNinja]

I'm with Valerian on seeing how good they are in keeping tech secrets. Let's not trust them with anything that can give any enemy a significant advantage.

@Durin

1. I am so sorry to ask but do you think we can get an update today or tommorow? I know finals are like next week but I would love to see what's happening in the universe as the Inquisition is willing to tell us.
2. How long until the Space Marines have 1k?

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Also do try to recall that our friendliness to Xenos is not going to be mirrored by every Imperial remnant we meet, after all even with our friendliness to the Quartok many of our own people still hate them and so we have to keep this in mind when dealing with outsiders. They may see it as a reason to open hostilities with us. Given how relatively small we are to other factions, and that our insane soldier skill levels are confined to one planet, it would be best if we maintained a tech advantage over even allies so that we are more important to them alive than otherwise. We must be pragmatic, we must be irreplaceable, but we mustn't become a threat better removed to them.

 

[Valkur]

Yeaaaaaah

That's going to be tough. Really tough.

 

[RogueInquisitor]

I am very dead-set against sharing any tech until we get a thorough look at their government and people.

All it takes is one corrupt planetary governor on the fringes of their realm trading away tech we have given them for money or favors to completely sink our tech advantage with everybody.

Look into dispersing certain Civilian and manufacturing efficiency STCs? Sure.

But Military or Advanced/Exotic material STC's? Hell. No.

Or at least not until we have had centuries of good relations with them and have secured our immediate borders from threats.

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I don't think such a blanket ban is really necessary. We're working on a new line of Astartes-grade power armors which should be safe to trade - the Blood Dragons aren't going to be trading that away, and the rest of the Nest lacks the Black Carapace to use the new patterns of armor. The lascannon-Hydra isn't exactly revolutionary, so it should also be safe. Heck, I think there's even a few Impaler variants we only discovered after the Fall of the Imperium, which would round out their arsenal without actually adding any new toys like neutron lasers or stable plasma weapons.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Yeaaaaaah

That's going to be tough. Really tough.

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It depends.

The thing with space marines is that they tend to be inversely stupid to age and experience.

With the exception of madmen like Black Templars the older a Marine the more likely they are to just grit their teeth and get on with it.

Now we do have some things going for us.

1. We're certainly not going to be against their religion assuming they're keeping to relativly standard Blood Angel views
2. They're going to be a bit more accepting of deviation (they're scaley after all ect.)
3. We're proven to be tough and anti chaos
4. We have demonstrated our strength by nomming Garkill and Valinor in the space of a year.
5. Most importantly we have Julius and Horatius two Segmentum level legends thanks to Horatius's Crazy skillz.

If they're going to get angry cause of the Quartok I fear they will simply have to grin and bear it cause as it stands while they could possibly beat us on the ground we could massacre their fleet (700 imperial era capital ships vs our Dark Age battle ships.)

Though negotiations maybe frosty.

In any case I'm not giving them any STCs we can send them vast amounts of Imperial era stuff for cheap, but no DAoT stuff till much much later.

I don't think such a blanket ban is really necessary. We're working on a new line of Astartes-grade power armors which should be safe to trade - the Blood Dragons aren't going to be trading that away, and the rest of the Nest lacks the Black Carapace to use the new patterns of armor. The lascannon-Hydra isn't exactly revolutionary, so it should also be safe. Heck, I think there's even a few Impaler variants we only discovered after the Fall of the Imperium, which would round out their arsenal without actually adding any new toys like neutron lasers or stable plasma weapons.

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I'd rather not consider giving them anything just yet, but I'm pretty sure they have the black carapace. Its artificial, but unless they lost all their apothocaries and medical records (a near impossibility for blood angel descendants) or they're so mutated they can't implant it anymore which would have certainly had them censured long before the Imperium ended then I think they can still make it.

Personally I'd rather send them something much nicer and bigger.

Ships.

Capital ships specifically they have 700 and we can make Imperial Era battleships in a mere 12 years.

I say we send them a few hundred Imperial era crusiers to make them a primir power in the area.

Even better for us it'd be cheap as chips.

 

[Valkur]

In exchange for ships what do we get? Defensive Alliances?

 

[Chronic]

We have defined guidelines for techtrades from the last High Council Meeting. I say we keep to them, they are pretty well thought out.