The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

[Angelform]

[X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. – This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.
[X] Target the Fleet- Another option would be to focus your attacks on the Orkish Warships, whose greater speed and maneuverability will make them a far greater threat to the reinforcement fleet then the Roks. –This option would have little effect on the attack on Avernus itself but would make defeating the Ork Fleet easier for your reinforcements, it should not be combined with High aggression.
[X] Deploy Light forces to Attack as they land - Least damage inflicted, all forces can easily disengage
[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks
Preserving the fleet is a priority. That said we should keep at least a few poking attacks going just so the Orks don't get board and try something cute.
Bad things happen when Ork try to be cute.

 

[noliar]

X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. – This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.
X] Target the Fleet- Another option would be to focus your attacks on the Orkish Warships, whose greater speed and maneuverability will make them a far greater threat to the reinforcement fleet then the Roks. –This option would have little effect on the attack on Avernus itself but would make defeating the Ork Fleet easier for your reinforcements, it should not be combined with High aggression.
X] Deploy Light forces to Attack as they land - Least damage inflicted, all forces can easily disengage
X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks
Preserving the fleet is a priority. That said we should keep at least a few poking attacks going just so the Orks don't get board and try something cute.
Bad things happen when Ork try to be cute.

Click to shrink...

If we're planning an extended ground campaign then getting the early big hits on Roks and landers is even more important. We can't take the same intensity of attack for two weeks as we can for 3 days.

 

[Elder Haman]

Sending reinforcements in stream instead of in one piece still sounds a good tactic against Garkill's surprise. For every batch (e.g. 100 escorts) they intercept there will be thousands of weirdboyz dying, until they run out of weirdboyz. @Durin is it right?

Click to shrink...

Not at all.

That sounds very foolish because we would be attacking in small pieces that are easily destroyed.

Much better to try and coordinate the arrival of the reinforcements with our own attack so we can reverse the ambush.

However, Durin never answered my question on that possibility, so I have to assume it's not possible for some reason.

We just have to hold out for another 2 weeks.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

However, Durin never answered my question on that possibility, so I have to assume it's not possible for some reason.

Click to shrink...

I think he did, but his answer was when he said we'd loose half the trusts fleet us doing that was assumed.

 

[Elder Haman]

Gotta play it safe here.

We can be more aggressive in other areas.

[X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. - This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.

[X] Targets of oppetunity- One option would be to have your fleet target whatever targets are easiest, this would cause the most damage but would not kill enough of any one category to provide an advantage. This option is the middle path, targeting everything equally for little gain but no loss.

[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to Attack as they land - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble

[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks

 

[arrepio]

Much better to try and coordinate the arrival of the reinforcements with our own attack so we can reverse the ambush.

However, Durin never answered my question on that possibility, so I have to assume it's not possible for some reason.

Click to shrink...

3. the projections assume that they are

Click to shrink...

Durin answered someone else, saying that the projection already assumes that our forces and the reinforcements are coordinating when the ambush occurs.

 

[Artemis1992]

[X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. - This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.

[X] Targets of oppetunity- One option would be to have your fleet target whatever targets are easiest, this would cause the most damage but would not kill enough of any one category to provide an advantage. This option is the middle path, targeting everything equally for little gain but no loss.

[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to Attack as they land - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble

[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks

 

[Doomed Wombat]

[X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. - This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.

[X] Targets of oppetunity- One option would be to have your fleet target whatever targets are easiest, this would cause the most damage but would not kill enough of any one category to provide an advantage. This option is the middle path, targeting everything equally for little gain but no loss.

[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to Attack as they land - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble

[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks

Gotta agree with Haman here, our cities can take almost anything Garkill can dish out except for the Gargants and Roks.

Well and the Hulks, but that's to be expected.

 

[Angelform]

If we're planning an extended ground campaign then getting the early big hits on Roks and landers is even more important. We can't take the same intensity of attack for two weeks as we can for 3 days.

Click to shrink...

Orks are not limitless. Despite their prodigious reproductive capabilities the 10-to-30 billion Orks Garkill started with are all that he has to use (unless he ends up hanging around for several months). Having a couple of hundred less Roks to teleport down to will not make a difference in how many troops he can deploy over a two week period.

If we choose to delay the reinforcements than we commit to fighting his entire army. Fortunately we are Avernus and being outnumbered six to one by Orks puts us at a significant advantage.

 

[noliar]

Gotta agree with Haman here, our cities can take almost anything Garkill can dish out except for the Gargants and Roks.

Well and the Hulks, but that's to be expected.

Click to shrink...

That sentiment is horrifyingly overconfident in the first place. In the second place the plan you've attached it to does very little to deal with the dangers you do acknowledge.

 

[vsh]

All these separate groups have to arrive in the Ork grab zone spaced out in time so they can only be grabbed one group at a time but nonetheless arrive in Hellheim in a timely manner in a position that will let them link up with the rest of the fleet in a timely manner. The Warp is not suited to flying a holding pattern.

Click to shrink...

There are multiple different takes on how fleets warping proceeds in WH40k, but as far is I know warping in more or less specific place in system is normal (gravity and warp conditions permitting), warping in specific time is impossible, fleets scattering in time and space and joining together in rallying point (what I propose here) is SOP for imperial fleet. I don't see what assumptions beyond that are needed.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

If we choose to delay the reinforcements than we commit to fighting his entire army. Fortunately we are Avernus and being outnumbered six to one by Orks puts us at a significant advantage.

Click to shrink...

Honestly his only advantages on the ground are his Gargants (A Titan legion could breech our walls after all), but those take time even for orks.

After that he's got the Hulks, but hopefully we can ware those down.

That sentiment is horrifyingly overconfident in the first place. In the second place the plan you've attached it to does very little to deal with the dangers you do acknowledge.

Click to shrink...

Because there isn't much we can do about them.

We don't know where the Gargants are, but if I was a betting man I'd say they're on the inassailable hulks with the Mega Gargants on Death's Harbringer which is not a target we can assault.

The Roks are something we're gonna have to deal with, but at the end of the day even if we destroy all the ones he aims at us all the ones he aims in area's our AA can't reach we can't do anything about and before you say do more damage and reduce the numbers of them he has 3,873 of them, unless we get another super crit we're not going to be ridding ourselves of them.


The Hulks again are not something we can deal with now, not unless we want to practically cripple ourselves for 50 years.

Our best chance is to wear him down in orbit and get him invested and trapped between us and the full might of the trust, even his Harbringer can't with stand all of our cities and the Trusts fleet shooting it.

And before you say the regular orks, what can they do?

We were getting kill ratios of 100 to one in our first invasion from our PDF before we went through a significant overhall in every sense of the word.

I'm not underestimating them there probably is a plan if we diffuse his aces, but at this point there's little point me trying to guess them.

There are multiple different takes on how fleets warping proceeds in WH40k, but as far is I know warping in more or less specific place in system is normal (gravity and warp conditions permitting), warping in specific time is impossible, fleets scattering in time and space and joining together in rallying point (what I propose here) is SOP for imperial fleet. I don't see what assumptions beyond that are needed.

Click to shrink...

It tends to be if a group of ships enter the warp at the same time they will stick together, but different groups will not, but that may just be how my GM did Rogue Trader.

Made chasing gits down a pain in the ass until we got a bunch of stuff to make us better at it.

 

[nat_401]

[X] None- do not conduct any harassment of the Ork Fleet while it remains in orbit, instead preserve your slightly battered fleet and withdraw for repairs. This option will give the gathered fleet a bonus for its next engagement.

[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to Attack as they land - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble

[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks

This plan is about conserving strength for one last push at the orks when they run into the minefield and defense lasers, the repairs we make should account for what little trouble our medium should encounter trying to extract.

 

[Portec]

[X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. - This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.
[X] Targets of oppetunity- One option would be to have your fleet target whatever targets are easiest, this would cause the most damage but would not kill enough of any one category to provide an advantage. This option is the middle path, targeting everything equally for little gain but no loss.
[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to Attack as they land - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble
[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks

This seems doable.

 

[NotteBoy97]

[X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. - This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.

[X] Targets of oppetunity- One option would be to have your fleet target whatever targets are easiest, this would cause the most damage but would not kill enough of any one category to provide an advantage. This option is the middle path, targeting everything equally for little gain but no loss.

[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to Attack as they land - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble

[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks

 

[Andres]

@Durin, can we advise them to warp in at about 1 week away? More chance of the orks pulling them out but less time for them to reach us.

 

[cl20]

[X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. - This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.

[X] Targets of oppetunity- One option would be to have your fleet target whatever targets are easiest, this would cause the most damage but would not kill enough of any one category to provide an advantage. This option is the middle path, targeting everything equally for little gain but no loss.

[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to Attack as they land - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble

[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks

 

[Kyushiro]

[X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. - This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.
[X] Targets of oppetunity- One option would be to have your fleet target whatever targets are easiest, this would cause the most damage but would not kill enough of any one category to provide an advantage. This option is the middle path, targeting everything equally for little gain but no loss.
[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to Attack as they land - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble
[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks

 

[Timewarriors]

[X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. - This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.

[X] Targets of oppetunity- One option would be to have your fleet target whatever targets are easiest, this would cause the most damage but would not kill enough of any one category to provide an advantage. This option is the middle path, targeting everything equally for little gain but no loss.

[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to Attack as they land - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble

[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks

 

[Enjou]

[X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. - This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.
[X] Targets of oppetunity- One option would be to have your fleet target whatever targets are easiest, this would cause the most damage but would not kill enough of any one category to provide an advantage. This option is the middle path, targeting everything equally for little gain but no loss.
[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to Attack as they land - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble
[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in on the edges of the system- will delay reinforcements by two weeks

 

[HanEmpire]

[X] Low- attacks will mostly consist of long range sniping and pouncing on any Orks that get out of position, best kill ratios but worst target selection and total damage caused. - This option will preserve the largest amount of your fleet at the cost of allowing Avernus to come under very heavy attack, but conversely putting your fleet in a better position to remove the Orks once the reinforcements arrive.
[X] Targets of oppetunity- One option would be to have your fleet target whatever targets are easiest, this would cause the most damage but would not kill enough of any one category to provide an advantage. This option is the middle path, targeting everything equally for little gain but no loss.
[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to Attack as they land - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble
[X] Advise reinforcements to Warp in one week away

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Questions for when @Durin gets back I suppose,
1. Which is better the Ion shield the Space Marine's elite power armor gets or a refactor field?
2. Is it possible for a Marine to wear an emergency refractor field under the armor, in case their armor is breached?
3. Has the Space Marine's elite Power armor been put into production yet?
4. Have the Vangirian's done what we've done yet and started commissioning Relics from the Staltfar?
5. Have we managed to train their Master of the Forge to a proper level yet?
6. Does the admech (so the upper levels like Scott, not Tranth) yet understand the mechanics behind the really advanced stuff in the core like Statis grenades and conversion beamers.
7. Would we be allowed to sound out to both the Guard and Stalfar the idea of training some of the Guard in the crafting arts of the guilds. Astartes and all that, think of the prestige for them
8. Slightly different sound out would be sending psykers to be trained as craftsmen, not learn any guild secrets just to be trained. Would this be possible?
9. How expensive would it be to outfit the gov's own and phase tigers with a relic per man similar to how the Stalfar guard do it?
10. Will there be a chance for a lessons learned from this?

 

[Elder Haman]

So it seems to me that the next big decision to make is how to use our air force:

Option 1: Hold back and only deploy the air force around the cites

Advantage: Preserves the air force. Achieves local air superiority around the cites which are the main points of battle. Air force will be supported by the city anti air defenses.

Disadvantage: Landing of enemy troops by landers is uncontested, allowing faster deployment of Ork forces. Movement of enemy troops to concentrate attacks on specific targets is uncontested. Retreat of enemy forces back to space is uncontested, allowing faster retreat of the Orks once our reinforcements show up (note that they will have 2 weeks warning).​

Option 2: Hold back and only deploy the air force to attack targets of opportunity, and around the cites

Advantage: Preserves the air force. Achieves local air superiority around the cites which are the main points of battle. Air force will be often supported by the city anti air defenses. Movement of enemy troops to concentrate attacks on specific targets is contestable. Probably provides best kill ratios, and allows focusing the air force on important battles.

Disadvantage: Landing of enemy troops by landers is uncontested, allowing faster deployment of Ork forces. Retreat of enemy forces back to space is uncontested, allowing faster retreat of the Orks once our reinforcements show up (note that they will have 2 weeks warning). Possibility of air force deployments being cut off and destroyed, (ie we get baited into a trap).​

Option 3: Hold back and only deploy the air force to attack targets of opportunity, and around the cites. Launch massive attack on the landers when the Orks try to retreat.

Advantage: Achieves local air superiority around the cites which are the main points of battle. Air force will be often supported by the city anti air defenses. Movement of enemy troops to concentrate attacks on specific targets is contestable. Probably provides best kill ratios, and allows focusing the air force on important battles. Attempts to kill the Orks when they are retreating, making retreat difficult.

Disadvantage: Landing of enemy troops by landers is uncontested, allowing faster deployment of Ork forces. Possibility of air force deployments being cut off and destroyed, (ie we get baited into a trap).​

Option 4: Attack the enemy landers and landing zones during their initial landings.

Advantage: Reduces enemy lander capabilities, slowing their deployment and making teleportation via Roks more essential to that deployment, (limits the number of landing locations). Allows attack runs on the landing zones before Ork forces are deployed (meaning less AA defenses). Reduces enemy lander capabilities so that moving forces around is less possible. Reduces enemy lander capabilities so that retreat is slower and more difficult.

Disadvantage: Enemy fighters will contest this. Much higher casualties among our air force.​

Option 5: Attack enemy fighters and landing zones during initial landings.

Advantage: Allows attack runs on the landing zones before Ork forces are deployed (meaning less AA defenses). Has possibility of achieving global air superiority by eliminating the enemy fighters, which would allow uncontested sorties by our air force afterwards. Including attacking enemy landers. Possibility of destroying enemy lander forces with the enemy force half deployed.

Disadvantage: Much higher casualties among our air force. Allows the landing of more Orks during initial landings.​

Option 1 & 2 is basically what we did against the Necrons, and have done against most enemies due to being heavily out numbered in the air.

Option 3 is probably the minimum we need to do if we are to achieve the strategic goal of crippling Garkill and possibly killing him.

Option 4 is what we tried last time Garkill landed, and it was very costly to our air force, but probably did achieve the goal of forcing deployment via Roks instead of all over the place via landers.

Option 5 is the classic air superiority strategy, and if we can achieve the aim of eliminating Garkill's fighter cover would give us a huge advantage the rest of the war.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Option 5 is the classic air superiority strategy, and if we can achieve the aim of eliminating Garkill's fighter cover would give us a huge advantage the rest of the war.

Click to shrink...

With our much better air force and Militia air force I'm in favor of this one.

 

[Durin]

Can we warp in a lot of
1. mines
2. torpedoes
3. suicide rammers
4. something like that?
Use their trick against them.
5. Or rig mass conveyor to fall apart and let loose enormous amount of fighter wings. @Durin

Click to shrink...

you can only Warp in ships with Warp drives, so 5 would be the only option but would leave you with a lot of unsupported attack craft int eh middle of the enemy fleet where they would die quickly

1. Let's say if Garkill uses those Roks to land on our fortifications en masse, as we discovered as per Ridcully's Divinations?

Click to shrink...

hundreds, a thousand if you are lucky

Sending reinforcements in stream instead of in one piece still sounds a good tactic against Garkill's surprise. For every batch (e.g. 100 escorts) they intercept there will be thousands of weirdboyz dying, until they run out of weirdboyz. @Durin is it right?

Click to shrink...

you have no understanding of what they are trying to do, splitting into a thousand groups may work or the difficulty of the task may be proportional to the number of ships so it may result in feeding your fleet to Garkill, the big issue here is you do not know

@Durin, can we advise them to warp in at about 1 week away? More chance of the orks pulling them out but less time for them to reach us.

Click to shrink...

yes you can, if they do this there will be a greater chance that they will be pulled into an ambush then 2 weeks away, being 4 times as close, but there will also be a chance that your reinforcements will escape the trap and only be a week ago, I was wondering when someone would think of this