Not looking foolish is still a thing. I'm leery of going so far into debt on so many fronts given recent events.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Not looking foolish is still a thing. I'm leery of going so far into debt on so many fronts given recent events.
Can we afford to build 100 Knight Titans a year? Can't recall their production costs.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
TBH I dunno. I believe we can, otherwise it wouldn't be up there to trade..
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
[X] Plan No Shortages/Low Debt
Asgard
(3,988 Debt to Avernus)
Sell
(4,200 Cr) - 100 Knight Titans per Year
(2,500 Cr) - 500,000,000 Thrones per Year
(1,600 Cr) - 100,000,000 Promethium per Year.
(12288 Cr to spend)
Buy
(14020 Cr) - 200,000 AM
(1,732 Cr in Debt to Asgard, 10 Cargo Used)
Alfheim
(26.9 Debt to Alfheim)
Sell
(10 Cr) - Training
(2,500 Cr) - 500,000,000 Thrones per Year
Buy
(7,040 Cr) - 1,000 EM per year
(4556.9 Cr in debt to Alfheim, - Cargo Used)
Vanaheim
(3,600,058.6 Owed to Avernus)
Sell
(1890 Cr) - 300,000,000 Thrones
(28700 Cr) - 500,000,000 Metal
Buy
(10,440 Cr) - 5 Helheim Patten Fast Mass Conveyor
(48,560 Cr) - 40 Helheim Patten Defence Cruiser
(54,500 Cr) - 1000 Defense Monitors
(38,960 Cr) - 400,000,000 Material
(3,478,188.6 Cr Owed to Avernus, 105.3 Cargo Used)
Jotunheim
(1680 Cr owed to Avernus)
Sell
(10 Cr) - Training
(1,000 Cr) - 200,000,000 Thrones per Year
(8050 Cr) - 100,000,000 Material per Year
Buy
(13700 Cr) - 200,000,000 Metal
(4640 Cr owed to Jotunheim, 12.8 Cargo Used)
Midgard
(60,351.8 owed to Avernus)
Sell
(1610 Cr) - 2,000 Food/Year
Buy
(10,200 Cr) - 2,000,000,000 Thrones/Year
(51761.8 Cr owed to Avernus, 17.2 Cargo Used)
Svartalfheim
Sell
(15 Cr) - Training
(520 Cr) - 100,000,000 Thrones per Year
(67,900 Cr) - 1,000,000,000 Metal per Year
(1,600 Cr) - 100,000,000 Promethium per Year
Buy
(71,000 Cr) - 1,000,000,000 AM per Year
(1433 Cr owed to Svartalfheim, 70.4 Cargo Used)
Muspelheim
Sell
(5 Cr) - Training
(1020 Cr) - 200,000,000 Thrones per year
(8060 Cr) - 100,000,000 Material per Year
(8000 Cr) - 500,000,000 Promethium per Year
Buy
(28720 Cr) - 4,000 EM per Year
(11635 Cr owed to Muspelhim, 25.8 Cargo Used)
Niflheim
(994.3 Cr Owed to Niflheim)
Sell
(16100 Cr) - 200,000,000 Material per Year
(1020 Cr) - 200,000,000 Thrones per Year
(13440 Cr) - 200,000,000 Metal per Year
Buy
(35500 Cr) - 5,000 EM per Year
(5935.7 Cr owed to Niflheim, 24 Cargo Used)
Final Trade Results (Per Year):
+10,000 EM (Obj. Complete.)
+1,200,000,000 AM (Obj Complete..)
-1,500,000,000 Metal (Objective... failed? Still net positive, unsure with effect of mines.)
-0 Thrones (Someday this'll be important. Someday.)
+0 Material (I'm not sure if Material is important to our need, but it's the only thing that Midgard sells.)
-2000 Food
328 Cargo Capacity (228+100)
195.7/328 Cargo Used
PRELIMINARY AND SUBJECT TO CHANGE. (Esp after accounting for Cargo.)
Asgard
(3,988 Debt to Avernus)
Sell
(4,200 Cr) - 100 Knight Titans per Year
(2,500 Cr) - 500,000,000 Thrones per Year
(1,600 Cr) - 100,000,000 Promethium per Year.
(12288 Cr to spend)
Buy
(14020 Cr) - 200,000 AM
(1,732 Cr in Debt to Asgard, 10 Cargo Used)
Alfheim
(26.9 Debt to Alfheim)
Sell
(10 Cr) - Training
(2,500 Cr) - 500,000,000 Thrones per Year
Buy
(7,040 Cr) - 1,000 EM per year
(4556.9 Cr in debt to Alfheim, - Cargo Used)
Vanaheim
(3,600,058.6 Owed to Avernus)
Sell
(1890 Cr) - 300,000,000 Thrones
(28700 Cr) - 500,000,000 Metal
Buy
(10,440 Cr) - 5 Helheim Patten Fast Mass Conveyor
(48,560 Cr) - 40 Helheim Patten Defence Cruiser
(54,500 Cr) - 1000 Defense Monitors
(38,960 Cr) - 400,000,000 Material
(3,478,188.6 Cr Owed to Avernus, 105.3 Cargo Used)
Jotunheim
(1680 Cr owed to Avernus)
Sell
(10 Cr) - Training
(1,000 Cr) - 200,000,000 Thrones per Year
(8050 Cr) - 100,000,000 Material per Year
Buy
(13700 Cr) - 200,000,000 Metal
(4640 Cr owed to Jotunheim, 12.8 Cargo Used)
Midgard
(60,351.8 owed to Avernus)
Sell
(1610 Cr) - 2,000 Food/Year
Buy
(10,200 Cr) - 2,000,000,000 Thrones/Year
(51761.8 Cr owed to Avernus, 17.2 Cargo Used)
Svartalfheim
Sell
(15 Cr) - Training
(520 Cr) - 100,000,000 Thrones per Year
(67,900 Cr) - 1,000,000,000 Metal per Year
(1,600 Cr) - 100,000,000 Promethium per Year
Buy
(71,000 Cr) - 1,000,000,000 AM per Year
(1433 Cr owed to Svartalfheim, 70.4 Cargo Used)
Muspelheim
Sell
(5 Cr) - Training
(1020 Cr) - 200,000,000 Thrones per year
(8060 Cr) - 100,000,000 Material per Year
(8000 Cr) - 500,000,000 Promethium per Year
Buy
(28720 Cr) - 4,000 EM per Year
(11635 Cr owed to Muspelhim, 25.8 Cargo Used)
Niflheim
(994.3 Cr Owed to Niflheim)
Sell
(16100 Cr) - 200,000,000 Material per Year
(1020 Cr) - 200,000,000 Thrones per Year
(13440 Cr) - 200,000,000 Metal per Year
Buy
(35500 Cr) - 5,000 EM per Year
(5935.7 Cr owed to Niflheim, 24 Cargo Used)
Final Trade Results (Per Year):
+10,000 EM (Obj. Complete.)
+1,200,000,000 AM (Obj Complete..)
-1,500,000,000 Metal (Objective... failed? Still net positive, unsure with effect of mines.)
-0 Thrones (Someday this'll be important. Someday.)
+0 Material (I'm not sure if Material is important to our need, but it's the only thing that Midgard sells.)
-2000 Food
328 Cargo Capacity (228+100)
195.7/328 Cargo Used
PRELIMINARY AND SUBJECT TO CHANGE. (Esp after accounting for Cargo.)
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- Location
- England
Would it be possible to commission Vanahiem to build the remaining large ships for our fleet? Irrc we still have a fair few to build, and with the extra AM and EM coming in we could afford to maintain them.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Eh...
Why bother?
Like really, what else are our ship yards there for ya know.
- Location
- England
We have plans for at least one more battleship, and as our forge-cathedrals and cathedral forges come online we will want more.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Not really.
@Enjou and people do we have any plans to expand our already massive fleet beyond the current one?
Cause our current one is already larger than the majority of segmentum fleets.
We don't have any immediate plans to build more than our intended fleet size, which we're working on doing already. Inevitably we'll expand our fleet in time, but right now we don't have any impetus to do that.
HanEmpire
Delicious
@durin: What did Olaf think of Frederick's spiel?
Firstly, admit that you may be a bit hasty in pushing for reforms. Avernus is a young world, and it's culture is still quite fluid in comparison to the other members of the Trust that have had millennia to establish their traditions and beliefs. Also, living on Avernus is not only a constant struggle for survival but involves battling with the Ruinous Powers every day - even with the number of cultists having decreased to record lows since the fall of the Imperium, it's still a worry for you, and the Abomination is still the worst. It forces you to take a very pragmatic view of things like traditions and beliefs, and then discarding any that hinder survival or are vectors for corruption. This colors your perspective on certain issues, and it's sometimes easy to forget that the risks are much different for the other worlds in the Trust.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
They're the only ones with the patience for it.
Not sure I can afford the time to put up an actual plan.
But general thoughts:
Can we buy metal to help us trade more to Vanaheim?
More mass conveyor ships may be useful in the future with the planned expansion of our mines.
Can we sell Vanaheim debt to other systems? Spreading it out around the Trust might lessen the threatening feel of owing Avernus so much.
I doubt we want to trade them so much metal. We need to prioritize metal going to Vanaheim.
Can we buy more metal?
Should we consider buying metal from Muspelheim? They are the single most sympathetic to us in the Trust (Asgard probably likes us more, but that's because of earlier actions). In terms of supporting our preferred agenda, Muspelheim tends to be the most dependable. So I don't feel debt to them is too threatening...
But general thoughts:
Can we buy metal to help us trade more to Vanaheim?
More mass conveyor ships may be useful in the future with the planned expansion of our mines.
Can we sell Vanaheim debt to other systems? Spreading it out around the Trust might lessen the threatening feel of owing Avernus so much.
I doubt we want to trade them so much metal. We need to prioritize metal going to Vanaheim.
Can we buy more metal?
Should we consider buying metal from Muspelheim? They are the single most sympathetic to us in the Trust (Asgard probably likes us more, but that's because of earlier actions). In terms of supporting our preferred agenda, Muspelheim tends to be the most dependable. So I don't feel debt to them is too threatening...
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
We kind of need the Advanced Material. I tried not to go into metal deficit - Is our metal production expected to increase?
We can buy more metal, that's certain - We'd have to go further into debt, though, and note that we should try not to increase Vanaheim's debt with us.
I dunno about debt.
Feel free to copy my plan and edit the parts you don't like.
It's a bit hard to evaluate your plan because you do not include current debts in the calculations (except for Vanaheim). At least, you didn't include it for Asgard, since they already owe us some credits. Looking further it appears you included current debts for Midgard, but not Jontunheim... it's really confusing.
Uhh.... why are you SELLING Adv. Material to a system that ALREADY OWES US CREDITS?!?!
That makes no sense at all.
Remove the SELL: 14,000- 200,000,000 Advanced Material per year
Considering their current debt to us, they still end up owing money after the deal.
Why are you selling metal to Midgard and putting them even further into debt to us? We need to sell that metal to Vanaheim or save it for our own uses.
Why don't you buy thrones to offset the Thrones we are selling?
Feels like us selling too much Metal to them. That's 3.5 times what we sold last trade. Why not sell them 1,000,000,000 Metal instead? Why not purchase material (sufficient to cover the rest of our trade deals)?
Midgard also sells Thrones. I think we ought to sell food to Midgard, and then buy Thrones sufficient to offset our trades elsewhere.
Vanaheim also sells Material, we should buy as much material from them as we need to cover our material trade decifict. Better to buy material from Vanaheim than Midgard.
Our metal production is expected to increase, probably in about 15 years, and probably again 30 years.
My point was that it is probably better to go into debt with Svartalfheim and not trade them so much metal, instead trading it to Vanaheim or keeping it to serve our own needs.
I mean, right now your plan trades more metal to Svartalfheim than Vanaheim. That's not going to go over well.
- Location
- Somewhere, Maybe
[X] Plan No Shortages/Low Debt
Looks good to me, though I didn't give it the full-bore accountant treatment. ^^
Looks good to me, though I didn't give it the full-bore accountant treatment. ^^
We did not sign up for math.
Ok, came up with a plan. Someone kindly double check my math, check that I didn't miss anything obvious, etc.
[X] Plan Stockpile
Asgard (23,911 Cr owed to Asgard, 30 Cargo)
SELL
100 Knight Titans per year - 4,200 Cr
500,000,000 Thrones per year - 2,500 Cr
100,000,000 Promethium per year - 1,600 Cr (10 Cargo)
BUY
300,000,000 Metal per year - 20,070 Cr (30 Cargo)
200,000 Advanced Material per year - 14,020 Cr
300 Exotic Material per year - 2,109 Cr
Alfheim (18,571.9 Cr owed to Alfheim)
SELL
Training - 15 Cr
500,000,000 Thrones per year - 2,500 Cr
BUY
200,000 Advanced Material per year - 14,020 Cr
1,000 Exotic Material per year - 7,040 Cr
Vanaheim (3,446,558.6 Cr owed to Avernus, 117 Cargo)
SELL
1,000,000,000 Metal per year - 57,400 Cr (117 Cargo)
BUY
5 Helheim Patten Fast Mass Conveyor - 10,440 Cr
40 Helheim Patten Defence Cruiser - 48,560 Cr
1,000 Defence Monitors - 54,500 Cr
1,000,000,000 Material per year - 97,400 Cr (117 Cargo)
Jotunheim (2,960 Cr owed to Jotunheim, 12.8 Cargo)
SELL
Training - 10 Cr
200,000,000 Thrones per year - 1,000 Cr
100,000,000 Material per year - 8,050 Cr (6.4 Cargo)
BUY
200,000,000 Metal per year - 13,700 Cr (12.8 Cargo)
Midgard (59,138 Cr owed to Avernus, 28 Cargo)
SELL
1116.3 units of food per year - 8,986.2 Cr (48 Cargo)
BUY
2,000,000,000 Thrones per year - 10,200 Cr
Svartalfheim (68,865 Cr owed to Svartalfheim, 6.4 Cargo)
SELL
Training - 15 Cr
100,000,000 Promethium per year - 1,600 Cr (6.4 Cargo)
100,000,000 Thrones per year - 520 Cr
BUY
1,000,000 Advanced Material per year - 71,000 Cr
Muspelheim (139,915 Cr owed to Muspelheim, 25.8 Cargo)
SELL
Training - 5 Cr
100,000,000 Material per year - 8,060 Cr (4.3 Cargo)
500,000,000 Promethium per year - 8,000 Cr (21.5 Cargo)
200,000,000 Thrones per year - 1,020 Cr
BUY
1,200,000 Advanced Material per year - 85,200 Cr
10,000 Exotic Material per year - 71,800 Cr
Niflheim
SELL
200,000,000 Material per year - 16,100 Cr (8 Cargo)
200,000,000 Thrones per year - 1,020 Cr
BUY
5,000 Exotic Material per year - 35,500 Cr
1,000,000 Advanced Material per year - 71,000 Cr
228/228 Cargo used
Plan Reasoning:
1. This plan puts us in debt to a number of worlds to maximize the amount of AM and EM we get. That's not necessarily good, but after thinking on it I think it's necessary. It should be remembered that we've got a lot of AM and EM heavy projects going forward, and we're not yet self-sufficient on these things. Further, we know that as the Imperial Trust Navy grows there is a distinct possibility of the tithes on AM and EM increasing, which means that what output we do add on our own will produce less for Avernus. That means it'd be worthwhile to build as big of a stockpile as we can now, so that we suffer less for the increased tithes later.
2. This plan uses all our Cargo capacity, so no waste there. We should get additional cargo capacity once Vanaheim gives us the additional Mass Conveyors, and we also still have one Merchantman a year being built (shame nobody is buying right now).
3. This plan doubles the amount of Metal that we're trading Vanaheim compared to the last High Council meeting, but we're buying that same amount back from Asgard and Jotunheim, leaving us with a surplus. Vanaheim benefits from the discount in that we're effectively using arbitrage to their advantage rather than ours.
@durin - let me know if there are any issues with this plan.
[X] Plan Stockpile
Asgard (23,911 Cr owed to Asgard, 30 Cargo)
SELL
100 Knight Titans per year - 4,200 Cr
500,000,000 Thrones per year - 2,500 Cr
100,000,000 Promethium per year - 1,600 Cr (10 Cargo)
BUY
300,000,000 Metal per year - 20,070 Cr (30 Cargo)
200,000 Advanced Material per year - 14,020 Cr
300 Exotic Material per year - 2,109 Cr
Alfheim (18,571.9 Cr owed to Alfheim)
SELL
Training - 15 Cr
500,000,000 Thrones per year - 2,500 Cr
BUY
200,000 Advanced Material per year - 14,020 Cr
1,000 Exotic Material per year - 7,040 Cr
Vanaheim (3,446,558.6 Cr owed to Avernus, 117 Cargo)
SELL
1,000,000,000 Metal per year - 57,400 Cr (117 Cargo)
BUY
5 Helheim Patten Fast Mass Conveyor - 10,440 Cr
40 Helheim Patten Defence Cruiser - 48,560 Cr
1,000 Defence Monitors - 54,500 Cr
1,000,000,000 Material per year - 97,400 Cr (117 Cargo)
Jotunheim (2,960 Cr owed to Jotunheim, 12.8 Cargo)
SELL
Training - 10 Cr
200,000,000 Thrones per year - 1,000 Cr
100,000,000 Material per year - 8,050 Cr (6.4 Cargo)
BUY
200,000,000 Metal per year - 13,700 Cr (12.8 Cargo)
Midgard (59,138 Cr owed to Avernus, 28 Cargo)
SELL
1116.3 units of food per year - 8,986.2 Cr (48 Cargo)
BUY
2,000,000,000 Thrones per year - 10,200 Cr
Svartalfheim (68,865 Cr owed to Svartalfheim, 6.4 Cargo)
SELL
Training - 15 Cr
100,000,000 Promethium per year - 1,600 Cr (6.4 Cargo)
100,000,000 Thrones per year - 520 Cr
BUY
1,000,000 Advanced Material per year - 71,000 Cr
Muspelheim (139,915 Cr owed to Muspelheim, 25.8 Cargo)
SELL
Training - 5 Cr
100,000,000 Material per year - 8,060 Cr (4.3 Cargo)
500,000,000 Promethium per year - 8,000 Cr (21.5 Cargo)
200,000,000 Thrones per year - 1,020 Cr
BUY
1,200,000 Advanced Material per year - 85,200 Cr
10,000 Exotic Material per year - 71,800 Cr
Niflheim
SELL
200,000,000 Material per year - 16,100 Cr (8 Cargo)
200,000,000 Thrones per year - 1,020 Cr
BUY
5,000 Exotic Material per year - 35,500 Cr
1,000,000 Advanced Material per year - 71,000 Cr
228/228 Cargo used
Plan Reasoning:
1. This plan puts us in debt to a number of worlds to maximize the amount of AM and EM we get. That's not necessarily good, but after thinking on it I think it's necessary. It should be remembered that we've got a lot of AM and EM heavy projects going forward, and we're not yet self-sufficient on these things. Further, we know that as the Imperial Trust Navy grows there is a distinct possibility of the tithes on AM and EM increasing, which means that what output we do add on our own will produce less for Avernus. That means it'd be worthwhile to build as big of a stockpile as we can now, so that we suffer less for the increased tithes later.
2. This plan uses all our Cargo capacity, so no waste there. We should get additional cargo capacity once Vanaheim gives us the additional Mass Conveyors, and we also still have one Merchantman a year being built (shame nobody is buying right now).
3. This plan doubles the amount of Metal that we're trading Vanaheim compared to the last High Council meeting, but we're buying that same amount back from Asgard and Jotunheim, leaving us with a surplus. Vanaheim benefits from the discount in that we're effectively using arbitrage to their advantage rather than ours.
@durin - let me know if there are any issues with this plan.
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