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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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[X] Oppose Vananheim's proposal on grounds of unconstitutionality

[X] Support Muspelheim's proposal

[X] Counter-Proposal to Vanaheim: Planetary system governments must pay damages, either monetary or in-kind, for any diseases or invasive species that leaves that planetary system and spreads to another within the Trust. Payment will be decided in the usual way for a dispute between two systems(5 randomly selected high judges not from those two systems. In the scenario that one planet affects more than one other planet, each planet is decided as a separate case for the purpose of finding judges not connected to the case.)
 
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[X] Oppose Vananheim's proposal on grounds of unconstitutionality

[X] Support Muspelheim's proposal

[X] Counter-Proposal to Vanaheim: Planetary system governments must pay damages, either monetary or in-kind, for any diseases or invasive species that leaves that planetary system and spreads to another within the Trust. Payment will be decided in the usual way for a dispute between two systems(5 randomly selected high judges not from those two systems. In the scenario that one planet affects more than one other planet, each planet is decided as a separate case for the purpose of finding judges not connected to the case.)
 
Urgh I don't like that counter proposal. It leaves us open to blame for things that aren't our fault.

What if a Magos Biologis from Vanaheim wants to export a crate of Thunder Lizards or something for dissection. The animals are captured and secured properly, the ship carrying them has a bunch of Avernus hunters aboard to contain them if need be, the Magos has a sufficiently secure enclosure and all the right permits. The Avernites hand off the animals safe in the knowledge that they won't escape and leave. The experiment goes fine, the Magos gets all the data he needs. An idiot intern leaves the gate open and a breeding pair gets out.

By this counter proposal Avernus is required to pay charges even though no Avernite did anything wrong at any stage.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Urgh I don't like that counter proposal. It leaves us open to blame for things that aren't our fault.

What if a Magos Biologis from Vanaheim wants to export a crate of Thunder Lizards or something for dissection. The animals are captured and secured properly, the ship carrying them has a bunch of Avernus hunters aboard to contain them if need be, the Magos has a sufficiently secure enclosure and all the right permits. The Avernites hand off the animals safe in the knowledge that they won't escape and leave. The experiment goes fine, the Magos gets all the data he needs. An idiot intern leaves the gate open and a breeding pair gets out.

By this counter proposal Avernus is required to pay charges even though no Avernite did anything wrong at any stage.
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Not an impossible scenario. Our response would be to never export the wildlife. If someone want to research it, they can come to Avernus.
 
durin said:
Governor Oalf's propsoal is to raise Avernus' trade levy to 10% in order to fund this branch of the Imperial Trust, using the fact that it exists to clean up after Avernus' mistakes as justification.
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Can someone explain why we want to keep Oalf on the throne? Is there any advantage when he is this openly against us?

The second proposal is a request by Champion Surt of Musplheim to only tithe the equivalent of a Battleship for each Nomad City equipped with a Warp Drive. His resonating for this is that the Nomad Cities are primarily civilian structures and therefore should not be tithed as military installations.
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@durin Musplheim has distributed the knowledge of how to build warp capable Nomad Cities yes?

sacrificing 3 opinion
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Nope. We do not have nearly the spare rep to be sacrificing any, even with staunch allies.


[X] Oppose Vananheim's proposal on grounds of unconstitutionality

[X] Support Muspelheim's proposal

[X] Counter-Proposal to Vanaheim: Planetary system governments must pay damages, either monetary or in-kind, for any diseases or invasive species that leaves that planetary system and spreads to another within the Trust. Payment will be decided in the usual way for a dispute between two systems(5 randomly selected high judges not from those two systems. In the scenario that one planet affects more than one other planet, each planet is decided as a separate case for the purpose of finding judges not connected to the case.)

[X] Propose a twenty year moratorium on trade tithes for metal.
 
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Enjou said:
@durin - more questions.

1. What would be the estimated annual Throne cost for the quarantine measures?
2. For Muspelheim's deal, what about an alternative tithe where they build a militarized Nomad City (or maybe something a little smaller) set up to serve as a support facility (mobile repair shipyard, ammunition manufactory, etc) which also has bays to carry Flying Fortresses to drop onto worlds. We're likely to end up in a war where we have to attack someone, so that might be pretty valuable. Or is that not practical?
3. Alternatively, what do people think of Muspelheim just transferring some of Vanaheim's debt to them to the Imperial Trust itself as a tithe?
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1. 1,000,000,000 Thrones at most
2. yes that is possible and if suggested would pass, though Surt warns it will take a few decades at best
3. also possible, though the amount will need debate
 
Dark as Silver said:
Then change your proposal, as it stands blame is inherently on the planet that the faunus or flora originated from and all the court does is decide how much that planet owes the other.
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It places blame on the last planet that the ship visited, not the planet of origin. So that blame is not transitive and we don't have to pay for another planet's slack quarantine. But on second thought that could make others reluctant to trade with us...

But the aim here is actually to craft a proposal that sound somewhat reasonable but doesn't get passed, so planets having a fear of potentially being blamed for something that comes to their planet from Avernus and then leaves to another planet is an advantage voting on it, because we don't really want it to pass.
 
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[X] Oppose Vananheim's proposal on grounds of unconstitutionality

[X] Support Muspelheim's proposal

Also

[X] Antivote Counterproposal

For the reasons Dark as Silver outlined.

The diseases and wildlife are not the responsibility of the people of Avernus as they did not create them and in case of failure of the quarantine set up by the Imperial Trust holding the Avernite people directly responsible is morally and objectively wrong.
 
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Vlad said:
It was 1 in a 10 000 chance to go as bad as it did.
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We know that out of canon but in canon it was due to either chaos interference which we have no proof of or gross incompetence on our part.

DragonParadox said:
We did not force him to propose an unconstitutional punitive measure. Whatever we may have done this is still a political crit fail on his part IMO.
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What else could he have done, continue supporting the planet that have spies all over his planet and is actively trying to influence his people?
 
DragonParadox said:
Nothing at all would have been preferable to this idiocy. That way he would have had a chance to look strong when we proposed debt forgiveness.
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Well we can still salvage this by saying while we he did not actively punish us he still managed to let go of 10% of the debt we owe his planet and this proposal could also mean that he is as angry as the average Vanaheimer about this issue.
 
Dark as Silver said:
Then change your proposal, as it stands blame is inherently on the planet that the faunus or flora originated from and all the court does is decide how much that planet owes the other.
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Proposal amendment idea:

[] Counter-Proposal to Vanaheim: Planetary system governments must pay damages, either monetary or in-kind, for any diseases or invasive species that leaves that planetary system and spreads to another within the Trust. Payment will be decided in the usual way for a dispute between two systems(5 randomly selected high judges not from those two systems. In the scenario that one planet affects more than one other planet, each planet is decided as a separate case for the purpose of finding judges not connected to the case.)
In cases where responsibility for spreading an invasion species or disease is in question, the High Council may perform an inquest to determine culpability.
 
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